The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[TorsadesDePointes]

Having buggy content isn't the way the players would like it, sure, but raids have a dedicated community and their removal will outright tear the pro-raid playerbase apart rather than let them have their own niche game mode. A major thing that rubs me the wrong way is how there's mention that raids are "the only endgame" or "aren't the endgame anymore"- why would this even matter in this case? Plenty of games, Warframe included, have a place for "old content" to go. Sure, it's a raid that veterans have run for years now and for some it's no harder than any other mission, but there's always newer players who are having exciting and engaging experiences for their first few clears. If Warframe needs to keep pressing forward with higher and more diverse endgame- which it absolutely should, it's a breathing and evolving game with an active playerbase- it's not a reason to cut out what came before. A diverse "endgame" with more routes to advancement (Cycling stronger rivens, accumulating arcanes, unlocking and unbinding focus trees, collecting a frame and build for all occasions, installing more and more forma) means more content for the players and more chances that a player will find something they love to keep going with.

[Snake_Oil]

4 minutes ago, Xpo.vos said:

Why even bother removing them AT ALL. They are already in the game as is.

Just leave them there, in the corner, where the players that want to play the raids can keep playing the raids,
while the devteam works on the new and improved versions.

How hard is that?

I think the reason they're removing them is because their buggy as S#&$ and take a lot of dev time for the amount of player interaction they get.  You could say they should just leave them in and stop working on them but player will inevitably complain even if it's clearly denoted that they are currently not getting bug fixed.

[--RV--Goddess]

As someone whose been playing for less than a year but has got into the scene of raiding and doing it *professionally* This change bothers me so MUCH. I even LIVESTREAM my raids on twitch not only so people can see how its done but to actively ask questions if they don't understand. I even bring my viewers in on raids too. This whole "hard for new people" thing isn't really valid. Its hard because these "new people" don't seek out the MANY avenues to get informed.

 

TL:DR - I log on daily to Raid even when I'm not streaming WF. My DESIRE is to be a WF partner in my future but this saddens me and makes me wonder.

[Darkvramp]

not that this is a problem for me, but the raid content always felt off because it was so separate from the rest of the game, having to both get a key, and create a squad to do said content instead of being matched with people(which is how the derelict feels BTW) so having a raid ranking would be nice so that if you make it open matchmaking, if i join with  a bunch of random people, it is more likely that i am join with higher ranked people than not. and if i do join with a bunch of lower ranked randoms, i know oh, i have to take more time to teach. while that may sound a little frustrating to some it is at least better than no one interacting with the content, and  it allows you to curb your expectation. oh this person has a raid rank of 1 i have  a raid rank of 10, i cannot expect him to know the shortcut from this area to this area, or maybe this is his 3rd crack at the raid, help that person get the mechanics down, stuff like that.

 

[YUNoJump]

I honestly don't understand why they had to REMOVE trials, it's not like Dark Sectors where their continued existence is a detriment to the game. The existence of Trials in their current state isn't hurting anyone, they just give bad rewards. That said, many of my friends, who are mostly veterans or at least people who started a long time ago, agree that Trials are one of, if not the only, actual "fun" thing to do in Warframe, as opposed to fun based on accumulating loot and progression. The terrible rewards didn't matter if we enjoyed it, and I'm sure a lot of people in this thread agree.

I personally believe that there are many many problems with raids (mainly that a single arcane once per day is a terrible reward), but they have always been the most organic challenge in the game. Megan mentions that Eidolons are a parallel to trials, but I don't think that's true. Trials require far more thought, as well as actual real cooperation. Trials are just about impossible, no hyperbole, without extensive communication. Since sorties were added, Trials aren't even the most linearly challenging content in the game (level 80 grineer vs 8 people is easy), but the raids' puzzles and procedures make it by far the hardest content in the game if you aren't willing to work with your team.

I hope that whatever changes are implemented (if they are anytime soon, the comparison to the Dark Sector Armistice doesn't fill me with hope of a speedy fix), that Trials remain as the go-to cooperative content for Warframe. To remove that is to confirm that Warframe's development does not prefer true coordination and cooperation; it confirms that the devs prefer a mostly-mindless horde shooter over having to figure out real tactics. I also hope that the rewards are actually good. Maybe a guaranteed Riven of some new kind, or some form of special currency/standing that can buy you exclusive (and powerful) stuff at a Relay. Trials were destroyed by their terrible loot and if they return in anything resembling their original form, the loot problem needs to be addressed.

[MBaldelli]

19 minutes ago, ---RV---HawkiKill said:

I Fully support this message in it's Entirety. And so do Alot of members of ours Moon clans.

And when Remnants of the Void comes in here to support another large clan's posting, I strongly believe this is something to hear.  

So, DE...  Here's the question since two major clans are speaking up on this.  What are you going to do if you "temporarily" remove  trials and the rewards of Arcanes?  Because if you're "temporary" removing something (see the bit about Armistices) how are other players going to be earning these arcanes?  

Are you planning on putting them in Nightmare missions?  Because if not -- well then you're going to have a potential riot on your hands.  

I'm rather surprised to hear this second hand.  And while I take that with a grain of salt, I can't help but think you're looking at another powder keg in the works.  

[Hopeofhell]

Im not going to fool anyone by saying i enjoy trails and do them dayly, because i for one dont do them and infact loathe them.
But as a newer Vet i can safely say i have sweet FA to do in warframe, I cant say much on the old void system of old as it was before my time but i wish we had something like that still.

Never less why was the logical idea from DE to remove mostly perfectly "fine" and working content in the void of.... nothing.
This game is already sorely missing things to do as a End game player and the last sane and logical thing to do would be cut out what we have to do for new players.

New and mid level players have tons of content to play and grind out and enjoy... We Vets are left to grind the same unrewarding content over and over or go play a game that isnt out beloved Warframe.

[Kluuvien]

I don't understand why they would take them away, they don't cost anything to keep surely? 
My clan recently got into raiding and we have been casually running them, its encouraged other clan members to get geared up (generating DE more money than they would of got without them) and has been something we can do together (nothing else allows for larger groups)
The Eidalon fights are not remotely comparable to the raids, and them saying that feels a little cheap, not to mention the current trend of pushing everything through the PoE.
Their reasoning (that it will be better for new players) is daft, not only do I regularly take new people on the raids (some of my clan picked up warframe after listening to us have fun raiding and jumped right in with us) but raiding is an end-game activity and 'new player access' should not be a requirement.
Removing the only real end game content at the moment is going to have a detrimental effect on the playerbase, I cant see people playing as often after map progression is all there is is sorties (which are too easy, even soloable) and Eidalon fights (which a lot of people don't care for, and are rather simplistic tank and spanks).
I know they are adding two new ones, but that wont replace the hole that is filled by raids.

Keep the raids, work on new ones, no reason to get rid of content already in the game and enjoyed

[Sean]

15 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Devstream #106 this Friday will have a raw view on our decision to temporally remove Trials. 

We (as humans and also players of Warframe) feel bad about having Trials out there unsupported, but we can feel your emotions on the decision to temporarily remove them as well.

It's better than removing something without a replacement.

This is a terrible decision, Trials can work well enough, to the point that doing them daily is feasible. Removing them, again, without a replacement is just a slap to all the veterans.

 

Continually forcing PoE content down people's throats is just a way to kill off the activity towards PoE.

Every event, batch of new content, and now arcanes, are all going to PoE, while the rest of the game, like the Kuva Fortress, is left to the wayside.

[CatLaCat]

Honestly its sad that you kill raids when you have conclave still around.  Most hours of the week you can get a raid going.  Can the same be said for conclave?  Time to uninstall honestly.

  

[PikaJoyce]

11 minutes ago, xXHobbitXx said:

Completely agree, just cause some so called vets dont like raids being removed, you cant assume all vets like or want raids to stay, you will find its a very small group of people that do raids daily, but your all very vocal, thats why you assume EVERYONE wants them, they provide nothing to gameplay and what is gained from raids, ie: arcanes, will still be available, so no loss except a buggy lifeless boring raid system

What is a very small group of people? RSB can be considered one of the most active discord that dedicates themselves to bringing people together and showing newer players how to complete the trials. No, not everyone wants to or even likes to raid. However, many people DO. They provide players to come together and do 8 player games. Personally, I do daily raids with my own group of friends. This is the only time we can all truly get together and hang out and all enjoy an hour of banter together. Trials have brought together entire communities as @--Q--Voltage so eloquently put it. All of the people I've met came from the raiding community. So personally, the raids have kept me coming back to warframe on a daily basis. But now with the announcement of the removal of the raids, I'm not so sure if that will be the case any longer.

 

[Vaporoxgaming]

15 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Devstream #106 this Friday will have a raw view on our decision to temporally remove Trials. 

We (as humans and also players of Warframe) feel bad about having Trials out there unsupported, but we can feel your emotions on the decision to temporarily remove them as well.

Ok, look, I really like you guys and all, but now you just went and pissed me off.  If you're feeling bad about not supporting the raids, then make a dedicated team for them and get them to work on it instead of taking them out goddamnit!  Honestly, you have a dedicated team for Conclave, the single most despised mode in this entire game but raids are the mode getting the bullet?  Seriously Megan, has nobody asked why raids had to go before Conclave?

[FloofyDwagon]

Imo, they should leave raids in until they have finished whatever the new system is that will replace raids so that there isnt a void where no raid content can be run between times.

[Zetaikenshi]

2 minutes ago, Snake_Oil said:

I think the reason they're removing them is because their buggy as S#&$ and take a lot of dev time for the amount of player interaction they get.  You could say they should just leave them in and stop working on them but player will inevitably complain even if it's clearly denoted that they are currently not getting bug fixed.

Just gonna point out they rarely got fixed anyway, so that's like saying "They're putting in too much work doing anything except that."

[Papa.Pov]

2 minutes ago, Snake_Oil said:

I think the reason they're removing them is because their buggy as S#&$ and take a lot of dev time for the amount of player interaction they get.  You could say they should just leave them in and stop working on them but player will inevitably complain even if it's clearly denoted that they are currently not getting bug fixed.

Yes, they are buggy. Oh god are they buggy.
But they are also there.

And I have a feeling the complaining about current bugs will be likely to subside, as we are quite clearly being told that something is happening behind the scenes.
If we get to keep the current trials while DE works on the new trials, we will at least have something to do.

Whereas if they nuke them first and then introduce the new raids gods know how many months (years?) later, there will be a very long period of silence,
and I have a feeling a lot of veterans will just not bother coming back after such a long period.

[Mattoropael]

20 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Devstream #106 this Friday will have a raw view on our decision to temporally remove Trials. 

We (as humans and also players of Warframe) feel bad about having Trials out there unsupported, but we can feel your emotions on the decision to temporarily remove them as well.

That claim while making this decision?

You know as well as we do that this is a death sentence, even if you actually do mean to rework raids at this moment. You used Dark Sector of all things as an analogy to raid retirement, and that has been "temporarily" gone for close to 3 years, with no recent mention from you through any channel (Dev Workshop, Devstream, Reddit, whatever).

[Sean]

1 minute ago, CatLaCat said:

Honestly its sad that you kill raids when you have conclave still around.  Most hours of the week you can get a raid going.  Can the same be said for conclave?  Time to uninstall honestly.

  

 

That's a very good point.

So would that mean that Conclave is going to get the axe soon as well? It has a niche following, but is still lower than the amount of people that do Trials.

[Neonpkz]

I love plains of eidolon, let's remove every mission in the game and put their rewards in the plains so we can play max range nova every game. Killing enemies isn't even fun, warframe was made to fish and mine and i can even use this fish oil to presumably power, my level 25 odanata. I can even do more incredibly interesting defence missions bounties for 5 nistlepods and if i'm lucky, a host migration.Finally, once the sun goes down and i'm making my way to the final bounty i can take sweet comfort in the bounty failed text in the middle of my screen.

[Jabett]

5 minutes ago, Vaporoxgaming said:

Ok, look, I really like you guys and all, but now you just went and pissed me off.  If you're feeling bad about not supporting the raids, then make a dedicated team for them and get them to work on it instead of taking them out goddamnit!  Honestly, you have a dedicated team for Conclave, the single most despised mode in this entire game but raids are the mode getting the bullet?  Seriously Megan, has nobody asked why raids had to go before Conclave?

Yeah but both suck anyway :^)

[spot227]

I usually don't bother saying anything here because it won't change a thing. This time I'm going to tell you that I let the last -75% off given to me a month ago expire because I like doing raids but JV bugged out that day. As it happens, I received another -75% off about 30 hours ago and I'm going to let it expire too since you are even "canceling" raids all together.

 

I bought the hydroid prime access even though I wasn't (still not) entirely happy with the game (mainly "too grindy" and the issue I posted in feedback before). Now you are crossing the line of no return. So I'm reconsidering buying mirage prime access and the recent prime unvault packs.

 

You want to make PoE relevant? Make it interesting instead of grindy and stop forcing people to do what they do not enjoy. The same can be said for the game as a whole.

[Hydroid-Prime]

Pretty unpopular opinion, but in my own opinion, I felt raids were quite antiquated. I also feel that with this gone the dev's can put more effort into the stuff 95% of the community cares about most.

Maybe they can bring in some type of raid element into PoE so that it is more in line with warframe of today. Something more newer player friendly but still has that feel of team reliance and of a big team, with objectives to complete. Im sure they can merge PoE and some raid elements to form a pretty active social type area. Sort of like destiny and the house of wolves type stuff if anyone has played, but way better.

Also they can continue to fix other things with the freed up time, like to remove prime shoulders for tennogen skins.

[-Darman-]

Hail to the arcane enrgyze for 5 billion dollarz! Hail to the Dev's!

..."platium", sorry.

[uxx0]

Wrong forum topic. Maybe I'm intoxicated.

[Mrfive2five]

i feel i should share my story here because all imput is important with something like this

i have 1.2 k hours in warframe im MR 20 have every frame and nearly every weapon obvs not leveled ive done nearly all the content at least once, but im autistic. this is important because being social is extremly hard for me so finding raids was never an option. i joined this discord server called raid school bus in hopes if learning and getting over that part of me, it worked wonders. one day i joined a bus with alot of friendly helpful people who taught me all 3 raids in one night not only was it a better experiance than most of the content in your game but it was STRIDES easyer to aquire the frames and learn the raid than it was for a teralist hunt. to put it in perpesctive it took me weeks to get my chroma and vectis to teralist hunt levels and i still dont one shot limbs so im still getting yelled at in team chat, and thats only chroma i still dont have backup frames like harrow or volt or trin teralist ready. yet in 10 mins of joing this raid school bus discord i had a build ready to go for 3 differant frames cause not only where the frames easyer to aquire, rhino, nova, volt. but the builds required to do it where simple and noob friendly. eidalon hunts are the opposite there not noob friendly in the slightest and learning them requires so much more. the worst part about all of this tho i was super excited for raiding now i earnt my first good archane and was super excited for it and now your making them drop from teralists insted now ill have to do content i get abused in and content i dont enjoy to get these as it stands with my 1.2k hours its tedious and boring to farm teralists just to level the stupid quills and i dont even have the resources to build the damn amps you get anyway.

at least raids dont require a child with a laser pointer that costs more than an entire future warmachine that causes earthquakes to complete.

TLDR: autistic man learns to raid in an hour, but spends weeks learning teralists and is still confused/can barely do them.

[-Edrick-]

I'm a vet of 4 years w/ 4k+ hrs.   I can understand and get behind the idea to re-think the raid's direction, mechanics, application, etc.  And i can get behind the idea of shifting Raids to raid bosses (cuz 8 man Eidolon hunt will be amazeballs).  But to make raids unavailable is  going overboard. IMO, the only real issue I see in raids (bugs asides) is the reward table.  A simple fix to it is to just bump up the arcane drop % or add another reward table(s) to it.  Done.  Or in the case of the new Eidolons, remove arcane drop table from raids and replace raid rewards with prime parts/rare relics/stalker, G3, Zanuka drops/booster drops, etc

Perhaps even implementing the 'Token' System here.  Raid token rewards to redeem for those special and rare items listed above.