The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[Ecliptix]

I've done the raids a few times and never liked them much. I like 1-4 gameplay in this game a lot more than the up to 8. Also dislike that the raids are like teralyst became. 4 slots 4 frames allowed nothing else for most groups. They are also very inaccessible to a majority of players for a handful of reasons. I am happy they want to improve them but have decided to go in another direction for more tactical group play that is more accessible to a much greater number of players. Games like this evolve and change so I don't see this as a bad idea. I know it will be felt heavily by some but to most this change will change nothing for them.

[Mattoropael]

1 hour ago, Ecliptix said:

I've done the raids a few times and never liked them much. I like 1-4 gameplay in this game a lot more than the up to 8. Also dislike that the raids are like teralyst became. 4 slots 4 frames allowed nothing else for most groups. They are also very inaccessible to a majority of players for a handful of reasons. I am happy they want to improve them but have decided to go in another direction for more tactical group play that is more accessible to a much greater number of players. Games like this evolve and change so I don't see this as a bad idea. I know it will be felt heavily by some but to most this change will change nothing for them.

The fewer players allowed, the more strict the frame requirements will become for efficient runs.

LoR/JV frame requirements are very lax compared to Eidolon Hunts. JV in particular allows quite a lot of frames that don't help with their abilities at all, as long as your team has brought the few that mattered (Nekros, EV, Equinox, maybe a Speedva).

Replacing raids with Eidolons raise the bar for gear requirement.

[Inanegrain62]

I currently see...

 

DE taking down raids, affecting the community.

Reason, lack of man power or other reasons.

Issue, its been left untouched for so long, it grew something that people want, only being touched to be completely removed instead of a note of "not touching it till a later date" but a "Poof".

Some players would assume that they could have just worked on a separate one while leaving the current raids alone since they have no interest currently.

The idea of fixing it in hotfixes may pose more issues instead, which does suggest a overhaul for raids, however, plenty of things would need to be affected, looking at how something I have no idea had any relation with break badly.

 

Then again, conclave exists with no one giving much care just like the trials, along with DS which I've never witnessed and been convinced that it's another form of PvE that counts points similar to how invasions work.

Even with almost something breaking on a daily basis, I don't see why should trials be completely removed as it has little impact if it stayed, a large one coming from the community that may grow out of it.

 

 

 

[infinitiumolo]

I would like to point out how often The War Within breaks and becomes severely glitched and impossible to pass, seems with every 'big update' it breaks again. But this quest would never be taken out of the game 'temporarily'.

Since everything in this game seems to be prone to break with constant new updates, removing a game mode because it breaks sometimes and 'isn't active enough' is unnecessary.

 

[Ecliptix]

1 hour ago, Mattoropael said:

The fewer players allowed, the more strict the frame requirements will become for efficient runs.

LoR/JV frame requirements are very lax compared to Eidolon Hunts. JV in particular allows quite a lot of frames that don't help with their abilities at all, as long as your team has brought the few that mattered (Nekros, EV, Equinox, maybe a Speedva).

Replacing raids with Eidolons raise the bar for gear requirement.

Yah I found it annoying if the lures were simply immune to damage that would eliminate trinity. I dont think volt is needed at all just use madurai for shield breaks. Harrow is just about convenience and chroma just got taken down a notch and in my eyes is relatively similar to rhino now for dmg buff since I think chroma is now an aura. Hopefully there will be more options people are open to.

Maybe they will become more open like the trials did then. On that note I have soloed Teralyst with 9 different frames so it is possible just not as efficient. Some of them are a nightmare to solo with though and some took some steep learning curves to do. I at one point wanted to do it with all frames but I am pretty sure some cant solo it or would be too irritating to do it with. The biggest issue was typically lures. Most people would see it as joints but with the right set up several guns do it decently on any frame. I am fine with there being trials but I always hated the arcanes being locked there feel bad for those who cant buy them or complete the raids since they do offer some pretty big boosts. Well some of them.

 

[Ecliptix]

43 minutes ago, infinitiumolo said:

I would like to point out how often The War Within breaks and becomes severely glitched and impossible to pass, seems with every 'big update' it breaks again. But this quest would never be taken out of the game 'temporarily'.

Since everything in this game seems to be prone to break with constant new updates, removing a game mode because it breaks sometimes and 'isn't active enough' is unnecessary.

 

Its not simply the breaking that is ending trials for now. From what I've seen is the time required to keep working on something a very small portion of the player base does isn't being very effective with their time at the moment and they want to make changes to what constitutes end game for now so they are sort of moving their focus and freeing up those people will benefit their goals more for the time being while they restructure how trials are in what ever ways they see fit. 

Also War Within is probably the most important quest in the game and with out it people can not unlock large portions of the games new basics and storyline.

My posts might seem anti trial and I'm not I just think the end game needs to be more accessible to all and the eidolons have their own issues so we will see where it all goes. Also the arcanes being gated behind raids caused several friends to quit the game when they came out since they thought it was going the MMO route for gating loot. Which was a sad time for me : (

Where DE truly dropped the ball on trials is they are just there. No help really is given by DE in any way for trials the community did it all which was great but DE needs to be the ones bringing their content in a way everyone sees it and can experience it more readily.

[--RV--Halcyoner]

I had personally held myself back from making any comments, because I was expecting that the devstream would provide more insight or maybe a silver of hope for the raiding community. But after hearing all that was said, I can only say that I'm extremely disappointed.
Over the time I've played Warframe, It has become one of my favorite games for one major reason: The community. I've met some amazing people and had a lot of fun playing together with them and Raids are the one mission in Warframe, that actually require you to communicate with the rest of the squad and this feature has helped the raiding community to become the best part of Warframe for me. A lot of time and effort was invested trying to get people to understand raids and to build up the community into what it has become today. Removing raids from the game is not just about removing a game mode, but about making these great communities void in one great fell swoop. When RSB was specifically mentioned and asked for feedback regarding this decision, I had hoped, this decision is reversible. Turns out i was wrong.

The only game mode in Warfame that is challenging enough to build a community of this size solely to teach and run them, is going to be removed despite the overwhelmingly negative response that players have shown to this change and the reasons given to do so are in no way valid for the sheer amount of damage this change will cause. I had higher expectations than this from this game. Capturing eidolons, does not require any communication and coordination compared to the raids and it saddens me that you would equate them.

I don't hold any expectations anymore. I can only say that whatever plans you have for raids please try to implement gameplay of that kind into Warframe, rather than the mind numbing aspects that require next to no coordination that you seem so keen to implement.

[.DiZzY]

I wonder if the game's classification as co-op will also change after the removal of raids, as it will have been the last remaining part in the game that required any cooperation. The amount of competitive and community content has been slowly stripped over these past years with the removal of DS, clan operations and soon raids. Replacing these concepts with perfectly viable solo play content and trying to market them as 'challenging' with the words "see how long you can last" is quite insulting. Combine this with the clusterfuck that has become PoE this game has reached a tipping point. The veterans have been telling you this for a while now DE, don't come to your senses when the damage is irreversible.

Taking a temporary break from Warframe.

Goodbye Canada's rose
From a community lost without your soul
Who'll miss the archwings of your compassion
More than you'll ever know

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

13 hours ago, HeroOfTheWarframe said:

You get this wrong. Removing raids is not like removing the fish sandwich its something else. It is removing the table of the regulars! This mode was somthing primarly focused for the veteran players. Of corse there are more low level players than vetaran players and not even every veteran player likes trail but a big part (of the veterans) plays it. Warfarme needs those veterans because they teach new players what to do, they help them if they need help, they rule the big clans. And of corse a veteran player is something DE can count on.

So if you want to get rid of the raids you get rid of many veteran players. And when there are less veteran players there are less people to help new players to learn warfarme. And you need people to help new player to learn warframe because the game doesn't show new player what to do. So there will be more new player getting confused with warframe and get no help. This means they will leave the game too.

I'm afraid that DE thinks like you. Hope they will start to see the whole before it's too late.

Apparently a "veteran player" is not one they can count on if youll turn so quickly on DE when they try and do something they see as good for the game.

Instead of supporting them and trusting they're making the right call, you instead decide to try and set ultimatums and make demands based solely on "but I wanna!"  instead of understanding that they have a business to run, and they can't give everyone everything forever.  Sometimes, changes happen.  And sometimes those changes suck, but sometimes they're awesome...point is, if the game doesn't do something to change, it'll stagnate and die regardless.  They'd rather go down TRYING, as I imagine any good Tenno would.

DE are not just the developers of Warframe, but also avid and loyal PLAYERS and FANS themselves!  They are well aware of what it means to remove the Trials, and you could clearly see that on their faces and hear it in their voices, but they did it anyway....so CLEARLY it needs to be done.

It's not like they decide this stuff with a friggin' coin flip, ya know.  A LOT of discussion and planning went into their decision, so I have to trust it's for the best.
 

[Bankrotas]

17 hours ago, MisterFiddles said:

Ah, thank you! And is there an organised protest over there? I'm not a member, so I can't check myself, but *is* there in fact a mass walkout planned? Is that a fully active community or are there a lot of people in the membership just going 'I'll sign up to this so I get the @everybody' ? 

Again, this isn't snark, I'm genuinely curious to know if that *is* a 15k community going dark overnight, or if that might not actually be a reliable metric.

I'm not gonna claim to know everything or what's going to happen with RSB or what their plans are, I'm just partially involved so I can't tell you details I'm not privy to know myself. 

Anyway, DE, decided that even the worst possible outcome would still be a net positive gain for them or at worst acceptible loss. Eh, it's fine in a sense. It's a little bit liberating when a game cuts off the strings rather than you, less doubt on whether you make a good or bad decision. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 hours ago, WolfTitan said:

Perhaps, but even if that were the last thing keeping some veterans playing, the veterans were still playing. And if they were still playing, they would continue to spend plat on cosmetics to show-off their new costumes to their fellow raiders. Sadly for many, raids are the last thing that keeps them going, because it's dynamic, intensive, and requires cooperation and teamwork (unlike everything else about the game).

LOL WHAT?  It is NOT dynamic. Every damn run is exactly the same!  It does not allow for very much, if any, flexibility on frames and weapons used, loadouts, etc....Not only that, but most of the damn thing is spent standing around waiting for one or two of the 8 players to do the thing.  It's annoying and not at all like the rest of Warframe.

It's play-by-numbers, and not how Warframe was meant to be. At the least, not how it has evolved to be.  And THAT is what the devs are getting at.  As for PvP, being that powers work differently there AND mods are different for Conclave, YES, it DOES require hours of effort and farming, and one might argue is a BETTER way to "show off" cosmetics and skills to fellow Tenno than any Raid where it's just people arguing on mic about who has what switch OR everyone being absolutely silent while one "vet" tells us all what to do, how to move, if we can breathe, etc.

I'm happy DE is making these changes, and though it is unfortunate some people are so upset over it, that doesn't change the fact that it's for the best.

Tell a 6 year old he can't eat cookies before bed anymore because he has a cavity and SURE he's gonna whine and complain and say "but that was the only thing i looked forward to doing ALL day!" ...but the parent knows better, and makes the changes that are necessary for better health down the line.

Trust DE, they know what they're doing.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Noiverns said:

dunno if we’re playing the same game? i coordinate for sorties, for teralyst, for farming and whatever else. props if you like solo play but saying there is no cooperation and teamwork in this game we are currently talking about is such a narrow minded way of going about this. And I will say like others have cause I noted too, standing on plates and solving static puzzles aren’t all that dynamic. MP, EV and Disarm aren’t all that intensive. Just a lil quibb on that lmao

EXACTLY! THANK YOU!!

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 hours ago, Seinra said:

Have you ever played other games with Raids? Raids NEEDS to be hard because they are for veterans that doesn't have nothing else to do in Warframe, this game was not having good bosses and thats why the raids were born, but now DE thinks that their terralyst are hard enough and those things are not hard! If they are going to remove the Trials then I want those Terralyst fighting together agains the players with both GOOD AI and game mechanics.

The FIRST, and currently ONLY, Teralyst we have HAD to be relatively "easy" because it was NOT added as "endgame", it was added on EARTH where NEW PLAYERS can run into it at random, and DE knew they'd have no chance against it.  

That being said, if this damn community would have some friggin' PATIENCE, I'm sure the NEXT open world update is going to have higher tier Eidolons.  Like, does noone get that Cetus was just the FIRST, and a TEST at that?  Like friggin' chill the hell out!  Give DE a chance to do something before you rip their damn heads off!

They must have the patience of saints to keep trucking on like this despite such an ungrateful "veteran" playerbase on their game that they ASK NOTHING FOR.

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

It does not allow for very much, if any, flexibility on frames and weapons used, loadouts, etc....Not only that, but most of the damn thing is spent standing around waiting for one or two of the 8 players to do the thing.  It's annoying and not at all like the rest of Warframe.

It's play-by-numbers,

It very much allows for flexibility on frames. JV you can do with quite literally ANY frame. LoR - Lets see aside from the obvious Nova, Trin, Vauban, Nyx, Volt, RhinoStomp, Loki other frames than can easily add a ton of value are Mesa, Broberon, Excal, Mirage, Harrow, Frost, Gara, and Nezha, Banshee. Its fun (and trivial) with octavia. THe list goes on and on.

Its fun with all Titanias (obviously can't do all one frame on NM but...).

If you lack the vision and creativity to use different weapons and frames proficiently on LoR thats on you.  You probably play all the other WF content "by-numbers" as well - Chroma Eidolon, Ember Low Level missions, RQBanshee Hydron. 

 

[CaptainZgred]

On 7.02.2018 at 10:26 PM, [DE]Megan said:

To get right to the point of what you’re about to read, on February 28th all Trials (Law of Retribution/Nightmare and The Jordas Verdict) will be temporarily put to rest, much like the Dark Sector Armistice, for the time being.

On the latest devstream it has been clearly said that raids are not expected to return. I'm confused.

[(PSN)majid52]

il y a 32 minutes, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu a dit :

They must have the patience of saints to keep trucking on like this despite such an ungrateful "veteran" playerbase on their game that they ASK NOTHING FOR.

 

When u will have more 1000 hours played on warframe u will understand why we are so disapointed by this decision to remove raids.....

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

32 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

It very much allows for flexibility on frames. JV you can do with quite literally ANY frame. LoR - Lets see aside from the obvious Nova, Trin, Vauban, Nyx, Volt, RhinoStomp, Loki other frames than can easily add a ton of value are Mesa, Broberon, Excal, Mirage, Harrow, Frost, Gara, and Nezha, Banshee. Its fun (and trivial) with octavia. THe list goes on and on.

Its fun with all Titanias (obviously can't do all one frame on NM but...).

If you lack the vision and creativity to use different weapons and frames proficiently on LoR thats on you.  You probably play all the other WF content "by-numbers" as well - Chroma Eidolon, Ember Low Level missions, RQBanshee Hydron. 

 

I actually -don't- play -any- warframe content that way unless I'm in a rush or feeling lazy.  My preferred way to play is just to do whatever feels fun at the time.  Wanna take on a teralyst with loki? SURE!  Wanna see how long Volt can last in a Grineer Survival for no reason at all, just because you're curious?  LETS DO IT!

So, thanks for assuming everything about me, but in actuality, no, you can't just take "any" frame, because the majority of the "Raid-Loving-Community" will kick you from the party if you don't have exactly what is "needed", and that's pretty off-putting.  People want efficiency more than they want fun, and that, to me, just isn't what Warframe is about.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)majid52 said:

When u will have more 1000 hours played on warframe u will understand why we are so disapointed by this decision to remove raids.....

I have plenty of playtime on Warframe.  Plenty.

[(PSN)Schimmelpunk77]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Taishin_Ishu:

LOL WHAT?  It is NOT dynamic. Every damn run is exactly the same!  It does not allow for very much, if any, flexibility on frames and weapons used, loadouts, etc....Not only that, but most of the damn thing is spent standing around waiting for one or two of the 8 players to do the thing.  It's annoying and not at all like the rest of Warframe.

 

Follow Zanagoth on Youtube if you want to see the many options you have to play the raid. It's fun to kill Vay Hek with the fishing spear if you have the right team constellation. And isn't fun the reason why we play the game? I really like to test different team combinations to solve the Trial.

vor 52 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Taishin_Ishu:

Apparently a "veteran player" is not one they can count on if youll turn so quickly on DE when they try and do something they see as good for the game.

The players who play the game long enough have undergone a lot of changes, amongst other things the void and relic change...
This is now an other step in the direction to make Warframe more open for solo and casual gameplay.

Yeah maybe the next updates get better DE suprises me often. And of course I thnk DE have a plan, I hope it's a good one. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

 if you don't have exactly what is "needed", and that's pretty off-putting.  People want efficiency more than they want fun, and that, to me, just isn't what Warframe is about.

Do you envision a world of recruiting chat with these new Eidolon battles "Hunt - any amp, any frame welcome - we don't care how long the fight takes" Or entire communitities like RSB developing around teaching people how to fight one?

Maybe its the cynic in me, but I can see "Hunt - must have max operator, amp, XYZ Frame."

 

[(PSN)majid52]

il y a 4 minutes, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu a dit :

I have plenty of playtime on Warframe.  Plenty.

678 hours i know u play episodicly at warframe not continously

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Do you envision a world of recruiting chat with these new Eidolon battles "Hunt - any amp, any frame welcome - we don't care how long the fight takes" Or entire communitities like RSB developing around teaching people how to fight one?

Maybe its the cynic in me, but I can see "Hunt - must have max operator, amp, XYZ Frame."

 

I see the exact same thing happening, and it's put me off from wanting to hunt those, either.  I play Warframe for the FREEDOM, not for people to tell me what to use, how to move, what im "allowed" to run.   I've taken down Eidolons with the "wrong" frames quite often, but still the "vets" will say "you can't do that, you're playing wrong!"  and it's annoying af.  That's the playerbase, though, not DE, causing that problem, and no update DE makes will be able to adjust the way people are.

Hell, the co-leader of an Alliance I'm in is at over 2000 hrs of gameplay, and he is even put off by that.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)majid52 said:

678 hours i know u play episodicly at warframe not continously

I what now? I'm on literally every day! O_O I even run a Twitch stream.... ffs the level of judging going on here is insane.  Am I not entitled to my opinion because I have other things to do in my day besides play WF and "Master all dah tactics!" ?

[HeroOfTheWarframe]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (PS4)Taishin_Ishu:

Apparently a "veteran player" is not one they can count on if youll turn so quickly on DE when they try and do something they see as good for the game.

Of corse you can't count on a veteran player if you remove high level content instead of adding some. The game currently has nearly no content for them. The only "veteran content" is 1. raids, because they need a loot of understanding 2. endless runs(and they take hours to become challenging). Every other "veteran content" you have to create yourself with making yourself challenges, but of corse they aren't rewarding and thats a problem for many.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, CaptainZgred said:

On the latest devstream it has been clearly said that raids are not expected to return. I'm confused.

Wait, when did they say that? I watched the stream and I only heard them say that they just didn't think they were worth the constant game of debugging whack-a-mole in their current form, so they'll rather just scrap them entirely and redesign them from ground up.