The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[(XBOX)Ezkie]

Just flicked through the post and i actually agree with the raid being removed and rebuilt for the future, as much as people will deny it and it could be different on pc but on xbox specificly it is impossible to get in a raid if you arent fully experienced, ive done 1 raid in my entire warframe timeline, not from the lack of trying but from the lack of community support, i get it if people want to win but how do you bring in new players to a lonely community that wont open themselves to others? I think especially with these new open world areas bringing heaps of new players in there needed to be a remake of the raids to re engage the community into it, i am mastery rank 23 right now, ive done 1 raid and only found out about raids after mastery rank 10, the amount of advertising and lack there of people wanting new players to learn them made me stop trying to get into raiding as i figured the community was already set and unwilling to evolve. Im at work so i wish i could add more to this post but really raids werent player friendly in my opinion based on my experiences, a rework on them and reintroduced later to a larger community would be worth wild in the long run.

[S0V3REiGN]

34 minutes ago, --Q--Captain said:

It’s fun to do compared to most of the content in the game. I would rather do 100 LoRs in a row than do 10 hours in Mot, it’s just more entertaining for me. I also enjoy the competition and rush of trying to get a certain time in the raids.

It was easy for me to enjoy raiding because I always had a goal. Ex: learn the raid, find a raid group, get a sub 15 lor, get a sub 12 lor. Every time I do a raid I have a goal set in my mind that I want to complete.

This can also apply to many other parts in the game. If you’re just playing the game to play, you’re going to eventually get bored. It took me a while to figure this out, but when I did it was pretty rewarding

Also, sorry for killing the target! :P

 

Thanks for sharing. Personally I just want raids revamped but people are taking this a bit too personal here. At this point in think DE might have to rethink their strategy on what’s going to happen to them.

 

 

As as for my target, it’s all good, I was only scanning the last part when he died.

 

[Captain]

Just now, traybong111 said:

I don't think players' experience with Trials matter that much in this case. You don't just remove features in a game like Warframe unless it's seriously causing trouble. 

Trials were bleeding DE money in the most literal sense. Trials created Arcanes market that moved a lot of plat/revenue and even with that DE couldn't justify the cost of maintaining them.

Removing Trials is a strictly financial decision, not a philosophical one. DE's had years to collect data and numbers on Trials and see that it's draining their money and time more than it's earning them in return.

We could keep them reminded about Trials and how they'll remake them into real endgame material that doesn't break every update, but I believe removal of Trials itself isn't up for debate. 

Considering that not even half of the Warframe community can’t afford a strike set, it’s not financial. If DE was concerned about the market and trading, rivens wouldn’t exist.

When they made the post to remove raids, the arcane market dropped, and they are even delaying the move for arcanes to NOT kill the market.

Although it is true that DE struggles financially, it’s not because of arcanes, it’s because of rivens.

[traybong111]

Just now, --Q--Captain said:

Considering that not even half of the Warframe community can’t afford a strike set, it’s not financial. If DE was concerned about the market and trading, rivens wouldn’t exist.

When they made the post to remove raids, the arcane market dropped, and they are even delaying the move for arcanes to NOT kill the market.

Although it is true that DE struggles financially, it’s not because of arcanes, it’s because of rivens.

That's the thing--Rivens don't really cost anything (and no the storage excuse they mentioned for putting the Riven mod cap so low is still largely bollocks). Compared to Rivens, just running the checks to make sure Trials aren't breaking takes away development resources that should ideally be going into other new content which directly impact their budget. 

This isn't about what Arcanes are worth or how large or small the Arcane market is--the point is that the cost of maintaining Trials exceeds the revenue generated by Arcanes. That's why DE's moving Arcanes to Teralysts knowing full well it's going to drive Arcane prices down. 

[Captain]

1 minute ago, traybong111 said:

That's the thing--Rivens don't really cost anything (and no the storage excuse they mentioned for putting the Riven mod cap so low is still largely bollocks). Compared to Rivens, just running the checks to make sure Trials aren't breaking takes away development resources that should ideally be going into other new content which directly impact their budget. 

This isn't about what Arcanes are worth or how large or small the Arcane market is--the point is that the cost of maintaining Trials exceeds the revenue generated by Arcanes. That's why DE's moving Arcanes to Teralysts knowing full well it's going to drive Arcane prices down. 

You’ve been in trade chat before right?

Have you not noticed how 90% of rivens are sold for 1k+ and basically fill the entire chat?

Arcanes weren’t an issue for the market at all. You rarely see anyone selling a full set of arcanes because it takes so long to get a full set.

You see random players sell “this opticor riven for 2.5k” or “this scoliac riven for 1.8k”

[Maziani]

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I haven't had this happen yet. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it may as soon as the community figured out the most efficient set up.

Currently, almost any group of frames can take down Eidelons

Optimal Eidolon party composition was determined the first week of PoE. Optimal parties can easily get 8 Eidolons a night-- easily. And really good groups can regularly get 10-12 per night.

Per night.

Where have you been?

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

So from what I've gotten from what DE said and this post is that: Trails are liked by those few who play them a lot. However unlike other less popular modes like Lunaro and conclave, there seems to be a lot of issue maintaining it. Judging from the discussion revoling around coding this isn't DE not listening, not caring, or giving a middle finger. Its an issue of not just about popularity but the amount of effort and resources it requires that can't be kept up.

So they are cutting it loose. Which. aa much as it sucks for trail lovers, makes sense. Diverting effort over and over again because something keeps breaking only for a relatively small pay-off does sound fun or productive.

That's their specified reason. I don't blame them either, to see if the raid is fixed during testing I assume they need to run it, requiring multiple staff members to take part.

Any other mission could be solo'd during fixing/testing.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

Ive completed roughly 600 Jvs and Lors. No BS. Sucks DE is scrapping them. As a 5k hr vet, this kept me on the game each night. There is not much content in WF to keep me coming back. Raids was something that did and of course making plat. No more raids = less plat making and as we all know, fashion frame is endgame. I could relic farming and sell prime sets but farming relics is boring AF. I have about 3k relics roughly. Leave the raids DE. I dont see how putting Arcane Energize in the Plains makes any sense unless the challenge that comes with it is something the community actually has to put time into is just a flat out HARD to get. This is why I've run so many JV's, I worked for it. Most of the community who runs on the daily Im sure feels the same. It's something we can do that not everyone is willing to do. It's something we've done that a lot have never done. Raids are vet material, not saying that it's not for everyone because it is. People just gotta do their research and learn. If they scrap it then oh well. Guess I'll have to find something else to do. RIP.

[traybong111]

4 minutes ago, --Q--Captain said:

You’ve been in trade chat before right?

Have you not noticed how 90% of rivens are sold for 1k+ and basically fill the entire chat?

Arcanes weren’t an issue for the market at all. You rarely see anyone selling a full set of arcanes because it takes so long to get a full set.

You see random players sell “this opticor riven for 2.5k” or “this scoliac riven for 1.8k”

EXACTLY. Rivens cost nothing on DE's part to create and are moving tons of plat. Whereas Arcanes move very little plat compared to that, but are tied to these huge bloated code monstrosities called Trials that require constant monitoring every update. It simply makes financial sense to cut out a feature that's causing loss. 

[(PSN)praranow]

When guys is the shrine of eidolon update comming for Console? *-*

[Captain]

1 minute ago, traybong111 said:

EXACTLY. Rivens cost nothing on DE's part to create and are moving tons of plat. Whereas Arcanes move very little plat compared to that, but are tied to this huge bloated code monstrosities called Trials that require constant monitoring every update. It simply makes financial sense to cut out a feature that's causing loss. 

I don’t see how this is a loss considering plains will be dead in a few months anyways.

Moving them to eidolons was a mistake, because once you max your quill standing  (which is like 30 eidolon kills) you don’t need to do anything else with them..

[Aquadoodle]

Can someone explain the appeal of raids? I've looked at some stuff on it, and it doesn't seem really fun. Only thing that seems "fun" about them is the fact that you can play with up to 7 other peeps. That being said, I haven't done any myself so I suppose I don't fully understand the reason why people are upset at their removal, but some people are acting like children over it.

[traybong111]

1 minute ago, --Q--Captain said:

I don’t see how this is a loss considering plains will be dead in a few months anyways.

Moving them to eidolons was a mistake, because once you max your quill standing  (which is like 30 eidolon kills) you don’t need to do anything else with them..

Eh, I don't work at DE so I don't know the exact rationale behind moving Arcanes to Eidolons. However the typical hastiness does convince me that getting rid of Trials was an urgent issue for DE and shareholders. Considering other Arcanes (Exodia, Magus, Virtuos...) are in Cetus, I guess it's nice to have a single location for all of them??? 

Steve's also posted that Arcanes will no longer be tied to cosmetics and could be customized in the same screen as mod equipment screen, so Arcanes could possibly become part of normal progression instead of a (usually) very small bonus that very small number of players had. I'm a bit miffed that Arcanes will become as common as higher-end mods, but I think DE will return Trials with new exclusive shinies.

DE knows from 3 years of Warframe and literally every MMO ever that relatively gated content like Trials can generate revenue, they just need to implement them in a way that doesn't hemorrhage them time and money. 

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

16 hours ago, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

Yea dude I’m with you 100% but at this point the entire fight to keep raids seems like a lost cause. The raiding community got snubbed before and we’re gonna get snubbed again. Everyday I see people on the forums bash the raids after only doing them a couple of times. Only 2% of the game’s player base cares about trials and we are up against the other 98% who will be relentless with the final decision to do away with them. 

Cauase they are scrubs who cant be bothered to learn. There is a reason they are called trials. Trial and error. Id run JV regardless if I were getting a reward, sometimes multiple times a day because I wanted to learn it. People want things easily handed to them. They barely want to work for it. Watch, a few months now. WTS Arcane Energize set 50p lmfao. Everyone will be walking around with double Energize sets on every frame. 

[Sean]

19 minutes ago, Aquadoodle said:

Can someone explain the appeal of raids? I've looked at some stuff on it, and it doesn't seem really fun. Only thing that seems "fun" about them is the fact that you can play with up to 7 other peeps. That being said, I haven't done any myself so I suppose I don't fully understand the reason why people are upset at their removal, but some people are acting like children over it.

It's something you really just need to try (with a solid team) to really "get". There are plenty of groups that will bring newbies along to show them how they work properly.

 

The main thing though, beyond them simply being removed, that gets people upset is the manner that DE is going about it. There are better ways than just cutting them off and saying "eventually they may return, but we have no idea on what form that could be".

[UrielColtan]

1 hour ago, Radagosh said:

And that's exactly what I love about raids! I cant faceroll them alone like everything else in this game. My sentinel is probably better than many of my random teammates in public matches - that's how bad it is.

This dependence on my teammates is something I'm severely lacking in today's warframe. If my team screws up I can't salvage it in raids I have to communicate with it and figure out how to solve problems. I cant just kill everything while dancing in tenno form.

Other people can be fickle, and real life is constantly prone to pop up with the more people required, so I don't like codependence as an obligation, only as an option. I think Warframe is in a proper spot, teamates are just required for the potentially faster efficient way, depending on the mission. I don't want Warframe to be like the Evolve game or Overwatch.

If something can't be done solo as well, then it also cuts off a bit of the content.

There is also only so many times that the "problem solving" for the same puzzle in the same Trial becomes mundane and I am just wanting to simply do it all myself. 

I prefer Lua style puzzles for this reason.

[tsubasakuroi]

I just can't take DE's word at face value when they compared it to content they left on hiatus for three years whilst working on a massive backlog of other content they've yet to finish. Knowing them, there's probably a bunch of other things they've yet to announce as well. All I know is for sure on the 28th, there goes the only co-op content that didn't have a 4 player max limit. That will remain a firm negative in my eyes even if I had my grievances about them myself.

But whatever, it was likely a kill two birds with one stone scenario for DE. Here's another reason to play Plains! Don't need to fix Trials anymore if they're not there.

 

 

[Nirrel]

28 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

Eh, I don't work at DE so I don't know the exact rationale behind moving Arcanes to Eidolons. However the typical hastiness does convince me that getting rid of Trials was an urgent issue for DE and shareholders.

I seems to me that instead of having financial issues, they had serious creativity issues at DE. They had these new shiny Eidolons ready to go but no worthwhile reward to grind them for, so they just hijacked the raid reward tables with some lazy excuse.

 

[WolfTitan]

Sometimes, big, shiny bosses do not equal more fun. It's the mechanics behind the gameplay elements that either make or break it. In this case, the mechanics of Eidolons come nowhere close to those of trials. After a couple runs, many stop hunting Eidolons because they become extremely repetitive. All three of them share the same mechanic of stripping their shield before stripping their health. Sure you can speedrun them but there is a clearly defined limit of about 3 sets of Eidolons per night. There's much more to do in trials, and there isn't a clearly defined timer limit which means getting 1 second faster than the record is theoretically possible and measurable.

I feel that DE doesn't understand this fundamental point that is the fast-paced nature of Warframe.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Maziani said:

 

Optimal Eidolon party composition was determined the first week of PoE. Optimal parties can easily get 8 Eidolons a night-- easily. And really good groups can regularly get 10-12 per night.

Per night.

Where have you been?

no, you're right, but its not nearly as hard ot get a group going with random frames as it was with trials. Any time i tried to run a bring your own frame trials, people would bail at first sign of difficulty. It was a horrible mission. There were so many things wrong with it, including the fact that failing felt like a HUGE waste of time

[Aquadoodle]

48 minutes ago, Sean said:

It's something you really just need to try (with a solid team) to really "get". There are plenty of groups that will bring newbies along to show them how they work properly.

 

The main thing though, beyond them simply being removed, that gets people upset is the manner that DE is going about it. There are better ways than just cutting them off and saying "eventually they may return, but we have no idea on what form that could be".

Ah okay, thanks. I do think that until an alternative is put in place, trails could just stay there. I just don't understand some peoples reaction to it, acting like its the end of the world. :P

[Hypernaut1]

37 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

 

Sometimes, big, shiny bosses do not equal more fun. It's the mechanics behind the gameplay elements that either make or break it. In this case, the mechanics of Eidolons come nowhere close to those of trials. After a couple runs, many stop hunting Eidolons because they become extremely repetitive. All three of them share the same mechanic of stripping their shield before stripping their health. Sure you can speedrun them but there is a clearly defined limit of about 3 sets of Eidolons per night. There's much more to do in trials, and there isn't a clearly defined timer limit which means getting 1 second faster than the record is theoretically possible and measurable.

I feel that DE doesn't understand this fundamental point that is the fast-paced nature of Warframe.

hunting eidolons is far less repetitive than trials. I think the Eidolons fights succeed because they all keep the same basic concept. The variance comes in where you fight them and how you fight them. 

[ErikaFurudo]

Le 2/7/2018 à 17:08, Mattoropael a dit :

You know, I joined after Dark Sector got shelved, and I've been here for years.

Talk about "temporary" lmao

I was just stewing on this exact thought.

[Maziani]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

no, you're right, but its not nearly as hard ot get a group going with random frames as it was with trials. Any time i tried to run a bring your own frame trials, people would bail at first sign of difficulty. It was a horrible mission. There were so many things wrong with it, including the fact that failing felt like a HUGE waste of time

I found a great community to find decent players-- and they helped teach people who didn't know the trials, which only built community and a good pool of players by giving new players good habits. And you never had the kind of problems you're describing.

Trials were never meant to be pubbed.

I don't understand why it is surprising that pubbing a trial didn't go well.

 

This after you tried to suggested

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I haven't had this happen yet. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it may as soon as the community figured out the most efficient set up.

Currently, almost any group of frames can take down Eidelons

(And Eidolon hunting party composition has been known since the first week...)

 

 

I'm forced to ask again...

 

Where have you been?

[Maziani]

37 minutes ago, ErikaFurudo said:

I was just stewing on this exact thought.

Yea-- this ongoing trend is why no matter how much I might enjoy playing, my enjoyment continues to diminish and my willingness to spend money has virtually reached absolute zero. And really, spending money is what they care about more than total players.