The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

55 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

my point is in all of five years of playtime the only toxicity I've encountered in force was during Trials.

Thats too bad.  In 4000 hours of warframe I've had far more toxic behavior in fissure missions, PoE, Hydron/Draco/Akkad - even the forums.  Actually Region chat takes the cake for toxicity.

As for bugs, yes i've had progression stopping bugs on the raids, but not as many as on PoE.  In fact, I've had more progression stopping bugs on PoE this week alone than on all the trials I've done.

But I've only done 1500 or so trials.

[Kaotyke]

14 minutes ago, S.T.M.P.D said:

While I'm still too new to ever have cracked the Trials, I kinda got this sense from Devstream 106 that part of the reason they were taking them out wasn't because of bad design or massive hate, it was because they were so buggy, and people always were pestering them to fix them, and Steve came off as kind of sick of having to fix them.

It would more likely than not be this.

It was a bit mind boggling how, after some updates, threads about how the Trials were buggy again would appear even if DE did not even touch it.

I'm happy they are going away so their debuggers can work on other things instead of being like "How did the ignition of the car break again?! We only changed the tires!".

And I can only hope they come back soon-ish, even if the population of Raiders were like, as of last data DE showed us, 2% of the playerbase playing it, or something, I dislike having modes of the game removed... ok, most of them. Because the Original Raids were just a "run straight to extraction" type of mission, just grab the thing and run.

22 minutes ago, S.T.M.P.D said:

Couldn't they have just said 'we're not really focused on fixing raid bugs lolol' and left it at that?

I hope I read this wrong, because I do hope you are not saying they should just "ignore the bugs that appear on the Trials and carry on".

[Hypernaut1]

15 minutes ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

I did the same when it took my fireteam 6 hours to complete the Pleasure Gardens in the D2 raid. Guess who now has 60+ completions of it.

 

You gave up because it was new and nobody knew how to do anything. You suffer because it won't hold you hand like the rest, but now we can run 20min JVs (no idiots ofc), even when teaching/carrying one or 2 newbies and light-teaching as they don't have injectors.

 

Sad to see you give up, but that's just the general population of Warframe I guess when it comes to hard missions. Wish you had come back to raid more.

I wouldn't call JV hard. Personally, I didn't find the process of figuring raids out enjoyable. It was more like a "how do the devs expect me to read their minds" kind of affair, instead of a "hmm, how do I figure this out"  kind of puzzle.

Standing on arbitrary buttons to open a gate isn't a good puzzle. Standing on buttons that affect a visible change to a logical lock sequence, is a good puzzle. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Sitchrea said:

Look at the posts above. The only vitriol comes from the Trial defenders. My point isn't I played a game with some toxic players - my point is in all of five years of playtime the only toxicity I've encountered in force was during Trials. It's the Trials themselves and their design which foster an elitist culture among their proponents.

I can agree with this to some extent. I've sat in several trial lobbies for 15+ minutes, only to have the entire thing disbanded because of bickering over whos bringing what meta frame or who doesn't want to play along with what frame because they don't help. 

Then I've had groups break up during the mission because of players bickering over who should carry the battery. To this day I still don't understand that damn battery 100% and I've done plenty of LoR. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

I hope I read this wrong, because I do hope you are not saying they should just "ignore the bugs that appear on the Trials and carry on".

They seem to have no problem ignoring other bugs in the game that have been reported for years - again and again. And just carry on.  The rest of this post is not aimed at you.

I think the resentment of the raiding community toward the the anti-raiders is multi-faceted:

• The claims of the raids being unplayable due to bugs from people who either don't play them or haven't played them since introduction
• the constant throwing out of the "less than x% play" when its been explained many times how the obscurity, lack of matchmaking, perceived poor reward for effort, once-a-day nature of them is the the larger cause.
• the claims by people who say "its nothing but stand on buttons" who again haven't done raids. Or somehow think that standing on buttons defending oneself, keeping up cc etc is inherently different than a defense mission where you are standing in one spot spamming abilities. Or a mobile defense  - rush, stand in one spot - rush etc.   If someone has done 50 raids and is tired of them and doesn't like it, fine - but the people who have tried less than 5 times, or had toxic people that polluted their experience don't have the experience to judge.  Watching videos and claiming an understanding of the teamwork, comraderie, or even mechanics in practice is no more valid than watching "Cops" and claiming to know all about police work.
  • the repetative nature of the raids is no different than the repetative nature of every mission type in Warframe.
  • the stand in one spot, do this one thing, is no different than almost every mission type in Warframe - Including the "Dark Sector" replacement which their demo of actually was far more of stand in one spot that the raids would every be.  There are only two stand in one spot parts at all - the security room and the hijack of lor.  I don't see people clamoring to get rid of hijack as a mission type - and all LoR did was ADD MORE to it.

There are plenty of people who have done lots of raids, didn't enjoy it for the game-play.  thats fine.  I hate conclave, archwing interception, archwing rush, lunaro, defection, infested salvage, liberate the camp, defend the armoured vault. I've played them - many many times - and can say that emphatically. I'm not jumping up and down screaming for their removal from the game, nor would I be laughing gleefully at the misfortune of those that enjoy any of the above if and when its removed.

 

[puppycorpse]

It wasn't cancerous. I ran it alot with my clan, other clans, and taught beginners.  Raids r not cancerous the way people treat others over raids are cancerous. Cause idk where that's coming from but for me it was a community grower.

[Kaotyke]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Then I've had groups break up during the mission because of players bickering over who should carry the battery. To this day I still don't understand that damn battery 100% and I've done plenty of LoR. 

Well... let me explain to you so you at least have that question answered before they are gone.

1) The Battery uses your energy to charge, so its best to use a frame with a large energy pool to carry it. Powers are disabled and you can use EV or Energy pizzas.

2) When it reaches 100% (Armed and Primed) you cant run with it or it will de-stabilize (Go from 100% to 0%) and blow on your hand, making you need to go back and grab another all over again.

3) In Nightmare, the damn thing has a HUGE blast radius, so run the hell away... or have Volt pop a shield in front of it and shot it to blow it safely.

4) in the Boss fight, it has the same mechanics, but you need to open the doors, throw the armed bomb down it and get out so the tower erupts.

[puppycorpse]

1 hour ago, Sitchrea said:

Look at the posts above. The only vitriol comes from the Trial defenders. My point isn't I played a game with some toxic players - my point is in all of five years of playtime the only toxicity I've encountered in force was during Trials. It's the Trials themselves and their design which foster an elitist culture among their proponents.

I'm a five year vet to man but I've honestly haven't see the toxicity. I don't doubt that you've met toxic people during it but you can't say that you haven't had at least one good raid with others no?

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, puppycorpse said:

I'm a five year vet to man but I've honestly haven't see the toxicity. I don't doubt that you've met toxic people during it but you can't say that you haven't had at least one good raid with others no?

Only with friends, once out of the five times I have completed a Trial.

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Well... let me explain to you so you at least have that question answered before they are gone.

1) The Battery uses your energy to charge, so its best to use a frame with a large energy pool to carry it. Powers are disabled and you can use EV or Energy pizzas.

2) When it reaches 100% (Armed and Primed) you cant run with it or it will de-stabilize (Go from 100% to 0%) and blow on your hand, making you need to go back and grab another all over again.

3) In Nightmare, the damn thing has a HUGE blast radius, so run the hell away... or have Volt pop a shield in front of it and shot it to blow it safely.

4) in the Boss fight, it has the same mechanics, but you need to open the doors, throw the armed bomb down it and get out so the tower erupts.

I kind of got those points, but for some reason it felt more complex than that at times. I honestly always avoided carrying it most of the times.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

14 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I kind of got those points, but for some reason it felt more complex than that at times. I honestly always avoided carrying it most of the times.

As a new bomb carrier, it can feel stressful - you only have your secondary to fight with, you can't use abilities, you have to keep an eye on your energy which is why people recommend a high capacity frame.  But with I've carried it with Titania with no flow - 150 energy at max rank - and just spammed epads.

Once its charged - as noted you can't sprint or take damage - either will cause the bomb to start to destabilize (best turn off toggle sprint as that could cause it to destabilize when you arent moving if it still thinks sprint is toggled on). Also be aware if you have quick thinking, you might not realize you dropped the bomb because you took lethal damage, quick thinking saved you, but it drained all your energy.

As it consumes your energy (more on stage 1 than stage 3), you better be in range of trinity and stay out of nullifier bubbles (and she needs to as well), hope your trin is good and didn't bring bless by accident, or have plenty of energy pies.

You obviously have to ensure to drop it close enough to the target, don't drop it before its 100% charged, and dont blow it up on purpose if your teams not expecting it.

You also want to be sure you or your team don't hack the terminals too early resulting in them resetting right before you drop the bomb. Failure comes so easily Tenno.

Since the mechanic to drop it is to switch weapons as a new carrier you need to remember not to accidently try to switch to your primary weapon out of habit.

With an experienced group, its all completely second nature, the bomb carrier can easily run around and help hack the terminals, and usually even if they drop it accidentally everyone else is situationally aware and someone can grab it before it goes boom.

 

EDIT TO ADD: But I guess all of the above equals just stand in one place on a button to people who get the expertise from Youtube or a Holiday Inn.

[EvilDarknessAlien]

\__/

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

As a new bomb carrier, it can feel stressful - you only have your secondary to fight with, you can't use abilities, you have to keep an eye on your energy which is why people recommend a high capacity frame.  But with I've carried it with Titania with no flow - 150 energy at max rank - and just spammed epads.

Once its charged - as noted you can't sprint or take damage - either will cause the bomb to start to destabilize (best turn off toggle sprint as that could cause it to destabilize when you arent moving if it still thinks sprint is toggled on). Also be aware if you have quick thinking, you might not realize you dropped the bomb because you took lethal damage, quick thinking saved you, but it drained all your energy.

As it consumes your energy (more on stage 1 than stage 3), you better be in range of trinity and stay out of nullifier bubbles (and she needs to as well), hope your trin is good and didn't bring bless by accident, or have plenty of energy pies.

You obviously have to ensure to drop it close enough to the target, don't drop it before its 100% charged, and dont blow it up on purpose if your teams not expecting it.

You also want to be sure you or your team don't hack the terminals too early resulting in them resetting right before you drop the bomb. Failure comes so easily Tenno.

Since the mechanic to drop it is to switch weapons as a new carrier you need to remember not to accidently try to switch to your primary weapon out of habit.

With an experienced group, its all completely second nature, the bomb carrier can easily run around and help hack the terminals, and usually even if they drop it accidentally everyone else is situationally aware and someone can grab it before it goes boom.

1. Spawn bomb

2. Get bomb to tank before it explodes

3. Teammates hack terminals before bomb explodes/ destabilizes

4. Protect bomb carrier from enemies.

5. Drop bomb, hightail it out of there

It should've been that simple and intuitive. No other gimmicks. No other restrictions. Not in this type of game. 

 

[JCBeastie]

I'm tempted but clan is inactive, I've never bothered with any trials before so not sure if any group would have me. Not sure if I'm that bothered tbh.

[Drakenreiter]

I'm not forgetting. The lack of those badges is probably more special than having them. I have never had any interest in the trials and I don't have any now. I for one am glad they are finally starting to look at what these trials really should be and if the current ones need to be retired, so be it.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

1. Spawn bomb

2. Get bomb to tank before it explodes

3. Teammates hack terminals before bomb explodes/ destabilizes

4. Protect bomb carrier from enemies.

5. Drop bomb, hightail it out of there

It should've been that simple and intuitive. No other gimmicks. No other restrictions. Not in this type of game. 

 

It is that intuitive.  In fact, what you listed is all there is to it.

So you can't switch weapons when carrying a datamass for mobile defense.  The only thing they added to that was you can't use your abilites - because honestly an invisible bomb carrier (still achievable btw - but I mean one who can self-invis indefinitely) would completely trivialize what was supposed to be a TRIAL, and you need to charge the bomb - that type of mechanic exists in hijack for example.  You can see your energy going down - you don't need intuition for that. You can see it charging - you don't need intuition for that either.

People make it out to be far more "puzzling" than it is. Then they get stressed. Or they can't easily handle level 60-80 enemies.  Or they can't cooperate (you know - your steps 3 and 4). 

Personally I really don't understand how any of the mechanics didnt fit in "this type of game". Unless by that you mean a game where you  turn on WoF or its equivalent, kill low level enemies you can't see, and think you're a god.  It was meant to be a little more challenging than average content. More challenging than Sorties. And in that they apparently succeeded too well judging by how many complain they were too hard (Its apparently too hard for the  toxic players that couldn't easily carry a new player without talking them down - if they say its super easy,  they should be able to carry a few people without slowing down - and they wouldn't have a reason to be toxic. My conclusion can only be that toxic players in the raids are not that good at them).

 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Edit: The thread this was posted in was merged it seems! So if something seems off that is why.

 

I'm just going to give me 2-Credits as reading this thread has been challenging due to some unwarranted shots fired...

Before I begin, while "I" never got to run Trials (to be referred to as "raids" from here onwards. Mainly because Trials makes me think of the black plague called Trials of Osiris or if you played D2, you poor soul...Trials of the Nine...) nor did I have any desire to run them truth be told, I AM sad for the players who DID enjoy the content.
As I too have played games where a mode/aspect was changed or removed. It's part of persistent online games however. I'll touch on this again later.

So...

1. Raids being Toxic
This statement is untrue for ALL games. The raids themselves are not Toxic, it's the players who are.
Raids in all games often inflate the egos, opinions, and skew the attitudes of those who play them.
Often times Raids are considered endgame & the common mindset is that they should be the hardest content period.
Challenging content added in with this generations dislike of failure/retrying something creates the toxicity.
In the US this is predominate because the current US culture is so work focused that people do not have any free time, as a result when folks spend 10-30minutes on something & they get 0 results it prompts an extremely hostile/negative reaction.

These "Raiders" who are so toxic as just as bad as the folks who abused Banshee & Ember before their adjustment, & to this very day they even spoil Eidolon fights for others.
How so you ask?
Well, many of these folks basically limited, tried to control, & ostracized others.
These are the same folks who required you to be: _ Frame, with _ loadout, with _ mods, for _ reason.
The same people who required a "1-Shot Chroma" & build for Eidolons.
The same people who will not even attempt _ content unless they have either: "The Meta" or a "Perfect" pre-built team.
The same people who require MR's to be over _ & expect you to already know everything there is to do in _ content.

That is a "TYPE" of player.

I state this because it is not fair to throw stones at ALL raiders. As not all of them are guilty of this.
Elitists will be Elitist no matter what content is played. The anonymity of the internet will forever empower people to be jerks.
We need to check ourselves & ensure that we do not let the vocal & often toxic minority influence our perception of the majority.
This behavior is prevalent in "Endgame" players. Where that endgame is PVP, PVE, or Fashion (depending on the game).

 

2. Participation %
Well it's no secret, Raiding is actually disappearing in Gaming, period.
So, in the days of Everquest, Raids were much more frequent, well received, & got run all the time.
Culture however wasn't as demanding so the 20-40people required for Raids were not nearly as difficult to gather & coordinate as they are now a days.
World of Warcraft is a PRIME example of how as times changed, so did raiding.
Wow went from large raids, to medium raids, to small raids in terms of player count.

Additionally Raids became less of a focus as time went on due to low participation.
To name "Current" games where Raiding exists but is not a focus anymore:
FF14, WOW, ESO, Destiny (we'll touch on this)

So in FF14 (Which btw is Cross0Platform gameplay, meaning PC & Console players play together), Raids are patched in every I daresay 6 months, & are given various "difficulty" modes. However the main raids are small group, the "Pick-up" raids are large group.
This creates a more forgivable experience & etc.
However, per the Dev team, even with Raids in the "Duty Finder" (Cross-Server Matchmaking) the content is ran/seen/experience by under 10% of the community (if you exclude the Storyline required raids. These later were done away with after ARR.). It's a MUCH higher percentage than most games.truth be told, but the game is also on fire so...

In WOW, while the "LFR Tool" boosted numbers, the content is still not seen/ran to the extent where Blizzard is happy. So while they do release Raids, it's not "Top" priority as the resources expended for such a minority of the community becomes hard to justify.

Which is where MANY games are sitting. ESO is pretty much in the same boat as WOW in this regard.

Destiny 1, for 95% of its life like many of the above games announced, pushed, and did a lot to prompt players into its Raid content.
On PS4 less than 5% of the player base completed a Raid, I do not have X-Box numbers but it was close to the same as PS4's, there was no way to track those who "did attempt" a raid however.

At Bungie's Destiny 2 Reveal they padded their numbers by saying: "Less than 50% of players who hit the Max Light Level(Item Level/Gearscore/Endgame) of 400 had completed a Raid."
So you have to take the community, divide it into Maxed Light players & non-maxed players, then go from there. So basically...less than 5% (because despite D1 ending on a high note, a  shocking majority of people did not hit 400 light, heh if only I new the "RNG God" meme posted all over Destiny on this topic was actually the Stalker...) Raided at all.

My Point...
I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound, nor am I trying to insult the Raiding community. I'm just listing some reasons to hopefully grant an understanding, that content we often label as "Raids" is starting to phase out with the times. Games are becoming much more about "small group" content, & while DE hasn't released all the results, Eidolons have been welcomed & generally enjoyed more by a significant portion of the playerbase.

While Dark Sectors have been on the backburner for a long period of time. It's better than DE take it's time than release rushed content.
Many Veterans give DE S#&$ for a lot of things, and act like the sky is falling. many of these players suffer from "Veteran Syndrome".
If you listened to many of these Veterans on the forums than PoE was an colossal failure, no one visits Cetus, Fishes, Mines, runs bounties, or does anything in Eidolon. We all just sit in our Orbiters with our thumbs up our backsides.
Back on topic...while Veterans give DE S#&$, we need to remember that DE is a company of 170-ish people. To expect AAA perfection from a Indy Dev is asking... for the impossible.
That said, honestly, DE does as good if not a better job than many of the so-called AAA studios that are 300-500 strong.
Which is honestly sad (looking at AAA studios), yet at the same time impressive...

While not every decision will please everyone (impossible), DE seems to care & pushes out content in pretty damn good condition at a consistent rate, all while staying in frequent communication with the Community. Honestly, every DE stream, the amount of Plat (money technically) they give to players is blasphemous to every AAA studio. (Bungie's Eververse would have a stroke at every 1000plat given away).

In Closing...
Raiding is content that will remain scarce in gaming, till it's phased out. That needs to be accepted. The sheer fact that DE never released a new raid in a little over 3 years was the writing on the walls but no one paid attention to it, so folks need to simmer down & reflect on what's better for the game not just their personal preference. (This includes myself for many games, even WF. Many have seen my thread pointing out my disappoint at DE's version of Venus. However I am accepting of it, and in the end their vision might be better for the game's heath/future.)
So the Raiding Community needs to calm down & really look at things.
While Raiding attracts what folks consider to be toxicity, PVP does that on a far grander scale.
Let's be compassionate to those of the Warframe community who enjoyed Raiding who have lost that content, let's not sling stones.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

8 hours ago, INight00 said:

...its only "temporary" right? Right?
It will be back soon... right?

True cooperative gameplay gone

Cooperative?  I spent half the time with some kid shouting orders at me with where to stand, which switch to activate, who i can and cannot attack.....yup, such coordination -_-  I won't miss 'em.  

Regardless, better things to come.  A true Warframe fan knows this. :)  So have faith in DE.

[Brorelia]

2 hours ago, JCBeastie said:

I'm tempted but clan is inactive, I've never bothered with any trials before so not sure if any group would have me. Not sure if I'm that bothered tbh.

You might be able to find a group that will take you in Raid School bus still. https://discordapp.com/invite/t2HxRDe

[Brorelia]

8 hours ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

Raids aren't cancerous to any of the playerbase because of how they worked. It's the people like you, another kiddo with 0 trials done at all in your time playing, that show how fake your ideals are. The reason why mr founder buddy says that they were cancerous is due to the supply demand flux for those that refused or completely despised the low rewards from trials themselves. If he thinks the raid community is trash and toxic, he's completely wrong. Try RSB, raid clans, warframe discord servers, etc. All of them would gladly teach newbies who don't know how to do anything the mechanics.

 

But I don't expect a bandwagoning person like you to understand the good in keeping trials around.

Still laughable how nearly everyone who calls raids "cancerous" or the like has less then 10 on record. 

Then again it was something that took some commitment to learn and a lot of commitment to get great value out of. 

Learned them with some guys in my alliance , did many with Raid School bus and ended up doing a lot with a streamer in daily sets usually taking under an hour. 

The Plat was nice but it was hardly the reason I did them after a while.

Sucks for any glyph hunters who wanted Zophey's glyph though since I hear they are stepping down from the partner program with the removal of raids. Wasn't even insanely hard just took a legit speed run like the 12.51 LoRNM that got me it. https://www.speedrun.com/wf/run/yjkq4x3m

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Too hard to see anything. As someone who have partial colorblind, the grey and red map is a fcking nightmare to look at. I got stuck, lost, go the wrong way entirely, not realize i'm outside of the armour bubble more often than i'd like to admit.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

I'm just going to give me 2-Credits as reading this thread has been challenging due to some unwarranted shots fired...

Before I begin, while "I" never got to run Trials (to be referred to as "raids" from here onwards. Mainly because Trials makes me think of the black plague called Trials of Osiris or if you played D2, you poor soul...Trials of the Nine...) nor did I have any desire to run them truth be told, I AM sad for the players who DID enjoy the content.
As I too have played games where a mode/aspect was changed or removed. It's part of persistent online games however. I'll touch on this again later.

So...

1. Raids being Toxic
This statement is untrue for ALL games. The raids themselves are not Toxic, it's the players who are.
Raids in all games often inflate the egos, opinions, and skew the attitudes of those who play them.
Often times Raids are considered endgame & the common mindset is that they should be the hardest content period.
Challenging content added in with this generations dislike of failure/retrying something creates the toxicity.
In the US this is predominate because the current US culture is so work focused that people do not have any free time, as a result when folks spend 10-30minutes on something & they get 0 results it prompts an extremely hostile/negative reaction.

These "Raiders" who are so toxic as just as bad as the folks who abused Banshee & Ember before their adjustment, & to this very day they even spoil Eidolon fights for others.
How so you ask?
Well, many of these folks basically limited, tried to control, & ostracized others.
These are the same folks who required you to be: _ Frame, with _ loadout, with _ mods, for _ reason.
The same people who required a "1-Shot Chroma" & build for Eidolons.
The same people who will not even attempt _ content unless they have either: "The Meta" or a "Perfect" pre-built team.
The same people who require MR's to be over _ & expect you to already know everything there is to do in _ content.

That is a "TYPE" of player.

I state this because it is not fair to throw stones at ALL raiders. As not all of them are guilty of this.
Elitists will be Elitist no matter what content is played. The anonymity of the internet will forever empower people to be jerks.
We need to check ourselves & ensure that we do not let the vocal & often toxic minority influence our perception of the majority.
This behavior is prevalent in "Endgame" players. Where that endgame is PVP, PVE, or Fashion (depending on the game).

 

2. Participation %
Well it's no secret, Raiding is actually disappearing in Gaming, period.
So, in the days of Everquest, Raids were much more frequent, well received, & got run all the time.
Culture however wasn't as demanding so the 20-40people required for Raids were not nearly as difficult to gather & coordinate as they are now a days.
World of Warcraft is a PRIME example of how as times changed, so did raiding.
Wow went from large raids, to medium raids, to small raids in terms of player count.

Additionally Raids became less of a focus as time went on due to low participation.
To name "Current" games where Raiding exists but is not a focus anymore:
FF14, WOW, ESO, Destiny (we'll touch on this)

So in FF14 (Which btw is Cross0Platform gameplay, meaning PC & Console players play together), Raids are patched in every I daresay 6 months, & are given various "difficulty" modes. However the main raids are small group, the "Pick-up" raids are large group.
This creates a more forgivable experience & etc.
However, per the Dev team, even with Raids in the "Duty Finder" (Cross-Server Matchmaking) the content is ran/seen/experience by under 10% of the community (if you exclude the Storyline required raids. These later were done away with after ARR.). It's a MUCH higher percentage than most games.truth be told, but the game is also on fire so...

In WOW, while the "LFR Tool" boosted numbers, the content is still not seen/ran to the extent where Blizzard is happy. So while they do release Raids, it's not "Top" priority as the resources expended for such a minority of the community becomes hard to justify.

Which is where MANY games are sitting. ESO is pretty much in the same boat as WOW in this regard.

Destiny 1, for 95% of its life like many of the above games announced, pushed, and did a lot to prompt players into its Raid content.
On PS4 less than 5% of the player base completed a Raid, I do not have X-Box numbers but it was close to the same as PS4's, there was no way to track those who "did attempt" a raid however.

At Bungie's Destiny 2 Reveal they padded their numbers by saying: "Less than 50% of players who hit the Max Light Level(Item Level/Gearscore/Endgame) of 400 had completed a Raid."
So you have to take the community, divide it into Maxed Light players & non-maxed players, then go from there. So basically...less than 5% (because despite D1 ending on a high note, a  shocking majority of people did not hit 400 light, heh if only I new the "RNG God" meme posted all over Destiny on this topic was actually the Stalker...) Raided at all.

My Point...
I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound, nor am I trying to insult the Raiding community. I'm just listing some reasons to hopefully grant an understanding, that content we often label as "Raids" is starting to phase out with the times. Games are becoming much more about "small group" content, & while DE hasn't released all the results, Eidolons have been welcomed & generally enjoyed more by a significant portion of the playerbase.

While Dark Sectors have been on the backburner for a long period of time. It's better than DE take it's time than release rushed content.
Many Veterans give DE S#&$ for a lot of things, and act like the sky is falling. many of these players suffer from "Veteran Syndrome".
If you listened to many of these Veterans on the forums than PoE was an colossal failure, no one visits Cetus, Fishes, Mines, runs bounties, or does anything in Eidolon. We all just sit in our Orbiters with our thumbs up our backsides.
Back on topic...while Veterans give DE S#&$, we need to remember that DE is a company of 170-ish people. To expect AAA perfection from a Indy Dev is asking... for the impossible.
That said, honestly, DE does as good if not a better job than many of the so-called AAA studios that are 300-500 strong.
Which is honestly sad (looking at AAA studios), yet at the same time impressive...

While not every decision will please everyone (impossible), DE seems to care & pushes out content in pretty damn good condition at a consistent rate, all while staying in frequent communication with the Community. Honestly, every DE stream, the amount of Plat (money technically) they give to players is blasphemous to every AAA studio. (Bungie's Eververse would have a stroke at every 1000plat given away).

In Closing...
Raiding is content that will remain scarce in gaming, till it's phased out. That needs to be accepted. The sheer fact that DE never released a new raid in a little over 3 years was the writing on the walls but no one paid attention to it, so folks need to simmer down & reflect on what's better for the game not just their personal preference. (This includes myself for many games, even WF. Many have seen my thread pointing out my disappoint at DE's version of Venus. However I am accepting of it, and in the end their vision might be better for the game's heath/future.)
So the Raiding Community needs to calm down & really look at things.
While Raiding attracts what folks consider to be toxicity, PVP does that on a far grander scale.
Let's be compassionate to those of the Warframe community who enjoyed Raiding who have lost that content, let's not sling stones.

Agreed.  Well spoken, Tenno.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

5 hours ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

Attitude? Really, stating basic facts that are correct is attitude? Am I wrong when I call out people that have no experience on their false accusations of why trials should be removed? No, I'm not, because bandwagoning is pathetic, especially for something that someone has never tried.

 

My post simply is a small statement over why they most likely never tried again after all these years and even says that I want those who give up to come back so we can TEACH them. Nobody gets anywhere alone, even the geniuses in this world. Had they reached out to get help later on and put a bit more effort into learning each area with other people once we had figured out all the main ways to get things done, then we'd have another happy raider to add to the group.

 

But whatever ya say, have a good day mr founder.

Just a little social tip:  People tend to not want to learn from people who call them "pathetic".  Doesn't exactly help you paint yourself as a "nice guy".

[krimit]

hey DE you guys are really making a mistake by having the tetralyst drop all the things of value in the game and its alienating your veteran players who have worked so hard to obtain focus, arcanes , ostron standing, quillstanding, and having vaulted prime frames drop exclusively in the planes. its making it so any new player can get everything veteran players have worked for immediately which is cool in some regard because it grows the community but in others it takes the value of playing the game away from your core, as well as the complexity of the raids that the 8 man play provides and by removing it a critical part of the game is being taken away and it further alienates the players who have loved this game and played it nonstop over the years. also you have killed alot of 8 man raid communities as well make it difficult to time farming the tetralyst due to it only spawns at night and peoples life schedules are not fluid like that, a raid starting at a time you control is really important! i dunno i just think some changes were too much too fast and it will hurt the community long term because of it.

[-N7-Leonhart]

They are focusing too much on new players indeed. And this is further underlined by the fact that the 3 stooges are the only things in the game that actually pose some challenge(?) right now for the veteran players. While the new players have a fantastic field day, we are left to rot with our boredom.

Btw, this is not the first time it happened like this. Endo is easy mode now, while we used to spend dozens of hours to max a mod before. Even the most basic weapons are very powerful now, while we had to struggle with some mediocre stats 3 years ago (and we were still able of great performance).