A possible Nezha rework

[FeztacularGames]

So I was thinking it should be possible to recast Warding Halo on yourself/allies without waiting for it to be destroyed first or "refresh" it. This could come at a cost like, -25% ability efficiency? Another idea is regarding the invulnerability when casting Warding Halo. What if instead of the invulnerability coming after the cast, it comes during the cast? I have died so many times when casting Warding Halo after it had been destroyed. There is also a kind of annoying thing that happens for all abilities on all frames, but if you fall out of bounds you have to recast your ability and I die sometimes =/. That's just game mechanics though I don't think DE will change it haha.

Tell me what you guys think about what I've suggested and maybe tell me your suggestions, thanks!

Currently Suggested Updates for Nezha:

Make it so upon Warding Halo's destruction, there is a a buff or ability that activates to prevent death.

Increase the width of Firewalker and or it's augment.

Increase Nezha's base armor or give him an ability that allows him to gain armor.

Allow Warding Halo to be recast at will.

Allow Blazing Chakram to mark enemies and like Ash's Bladestorm.

Edited February 16, 2018 by FeztacularGames

[InDueTime-EN-]

38 minutes ago, FeztacularGames said:

recast Warding Halo

No, defensive skills are generally not recastable. This is just so there is still some risk. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 hour ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

No, defensive skills are generally not recastable. This is just so there is still some risk. 

You're acting like there isn't a first for everything. Maybe this isnt the way to go about it but Nezha's warding halo needs some serious buffing. For low leveled content it's good. Playing somewhere like MOT and trying cast  Warding is a death sentence most of the time. Maybe we can find some compromise?

Edited February 8, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[Diavaz]

There are a lot of posts discussing potential changes to Nezha's abilities and they tend to have pretty good feedback. Would it be possible to create a megathread or at least summarize the ideas from those posts?

[FeztacularGames]

9 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

You're acting like there isn't a first for everything. Maybe this isnt the way to go about it but Nezha's warding halo needs some serious buffing. For low leveled content it's good. Playing somewhere like MOT and trying cast  Warding is a death sentence most of the time. Maybe we can find some compromise?

I am currently playing a level 60 bounty and all of my allies are dying because Warding Halo keeps breaking. I think something should be done to make it better even if it's not what I suggested.

[Trickst3rGawd]

6 minutes ago, FeztacularGames said:

I am currently playing a level 60 bounty and all of my allies are dying because Warding Halo keeps breaking. I think something should be done to make it better even if it's not what I suggested.

Honestly I'm open to anything! I made a nezha rework thread and some people have just tried to shoot me down because they think warding halo is "fine". Most of them don't even play Nezha often. 

[FeztacularGames]

I saw what you posted, really good ideas! I especially like the one about the "bladestorm treatmeant" and Firewalker being wider.

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 hour ago, FeztacularGames said:

I saw what you posted, really good ideas! I especially like the one about the "bladestorm treatmeant" and Firewalker being wider.

Thanks man! Hopefully nezha gets the tweaks he deserves because his concept is sick and so is that Liger deluxe skin concept!

[(XBOX)Grife7]

We have been discussing changes such as this in recent threads. You need to be able to recast it in some way. I want him to have the rhino iron skin augment innately or really just be able to dismiss in order to recast his halo. We shouldn't be getting killed because we are attempting to take some little damage to be able to recast our halo

[IllegallyHuge]

Nezha Safeguard Augment needs to have a cast radius. Trying to cast this on squad mate jumping all over the map is very frustrating; especially on the plains.

[(XBOX)Grife7]

3 minutes ago, IllegallyHuge said:

Nezha Safeguard Augment needs to have a cast radius. Trying to cast this on squad mate jumping all over the map is very frustrating; especially on the plains.

That would be a nice change. Hopefully when they get a chance to make some changes to his kit they will include it. 

If his halos could regen or be dismissed and then refreshed that would be even better in my book

[IllegallyHuge]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Grife7 said:

That would be a nice change. Hopefully when they get a chance to make some changes to his kit they will include it. 

If his halos could regen or be dismissed and then refreshed that would be even better in my book

Recasting when you chose would make Nezha practically invincible. Having the warding degenerate and require the player to recast it adds a sense of danger. You can become rather complacent being invincible all the time. I have noticed this playing Nezha non-stop since I built her.  You can become lost in having not to worry about damage from enemies. Paying attention to when your warding is almost gone you can plan the moment you recast. 

[(XBOX)Grife7]

Rhino already has an augment that allows you to dismiss and recast so something like it is already in the game. Nezha would be far from invincible especially at higher levels. You can die from an especially powerful shot going through your halo, shields, and health, which does happen. You could also die between dismissing the halo and reapplying it. You are right that just being able to recast while you already have the halo up and get that invincibility over and over again would be a bit much, but having to dismiss it in order to recast it keeps that from being as issue. In the end I would like to be able to dismiss it at will rather than having a halo at 5% and knowing the next shot will likely kill me and there is little I can do about it

[AetherMcLoud]

Warding halo is fine IMHO. I've done plenty radiation sortie 3's with the halo augment and it works great even against high level mobs with the right build. Maybe if the augment autocasted it on everyone in range, that would be sweet for upkeep, or just a straight up casttime reduction.

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 hour ago, AetherMcLoud said:

Warding halo is fine IMHO. I've done plenty radiation sortie 3's with the halo augment and it works great even against high level mobs with the right build. Maybe if the augment autocasted it on everyone in range, that would be sweet for upkeep, or just a straight up casttime reduction.

His warding Halo is fine..but the cast speed for it isn't fine at all. It needs to be a faster cast, enemies at high level can kill you in your recast period. This is why compared to Iron skin it sucks and there are many threads saying "Nezha needs tweaks, Nezha needs more survivability, nezha's warding halo needs to scale better". His other abilities need work as well...and that end animation for divine spears needs to be gon

[(XBOX)Grife7]

3 hours ago, AetherMcLoud said:

Warding halo is fine IMHO. I've done plenty radiation sortie 3's with the halo augment and it works great even against high level mobs with the right build. Maybe if the augment autocasted it on everyone in range, that would be sweet for upkeep, or just a straight up casttime reduction.

I agree that halo can work in sorties at all levels, the issue I have with it is when you are at low halo percentages and get one shot, because Nezha is also so squishy he can't take a hit. I shouldn't have to find a weak enemy in hopes that taking a shot from it will destroy my halo without killing me. I would like to be able to dismiss it to keep this from being an issue . As has been stated you would still be vulnerable in between dismissing and recasting and high power enemies could take you out very quickly regardless

Edited February 11, 2018 by (XB1)Grife7

[FeztacularGames]

OK so I did some testing where I had the most ability strength, most armor, and most health I could possibly get. In the test I spawned ONE level 90 Corrupted Heavy Gunner and they broke my Warding Halo before I could kill them and I mean I BARELY killed them. Then I did a test against a normal amount of enemies, 5 level 90 Corrupted Butchers, 2 level 90 Corrupted Crewmen, and 1 level 90 Corrupted heavy Gunner. I was easily killed before I could finish the Heavy Gunner. Now think of this, I'm in a Sortie and there is an enemy elemental enhancement AND the enemies are level 150. I would most likely be killed before actually killing anyone myself. I think it's pretty clear that Nezha needs a buff. I am asking someone to show me proof that Nezha doesn't need a buff, thanks.

[(XBOX)Grife7]

7 hours ago, FeztacularGames said:

OK so I did some testing where I had the most ability strength, most armor, and most health I could possibly get. In the test I spawned ONE level 90 Corrupted Heavy Gunner and they broke my Warding Halo before I could kill them and I mean I BARELY killed them. Then I did a test against a normal amount of enemies, 5 level 90 Corrupted Butchers, 2 level 90 Corrupted Crewmen, and 1 level 90 Corrupted heavy Gunner. I was easily killed before I could finish the Heavy Gunner. Now think of this, I'm in a Sortie and there is an enemy elemental enhancement AND the enemies are level 150. I would most likely be killed before actually killing anyone myself. I think it's pretty clear that Nezha needs a buff. I am asking someone to show me proof that Nezha doesn't need a buff, thanks.

I really appreciate you doing all of this testing. Halo is paper even at those levels

[FeztacularGames]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Grife7 said:

I really appreciate you doing all of this testing. Halo is paper even at those levels

It was nothing! I would also like to point out that using all of these high strength, health, and armor mods doesn't allow enough capacity for me to use Safeguard.

[MuscleBeach]

I think the reason Nezha has such long cast times is because he's a fast warframe. I think the devs wanted to contrast this in some way. So he's slow during casting and fast everywhere else. Definitely creates some issues but it's fine if the abilities can makeup for it in other ways.

Halo falls short. Does it need to be recast-able? No, but that is a simple option. I'd prefer if there was a deactivation effect, like a blast or flash of light that CCs in a short range around you. It's flavorful, keeps his long animations, and makes it easy to see when it's time to recast when it expires. 

Everyone always asks for abilities to be recast-able, not just shielding ones. I don't think DE wants this and neither would I. 3 seconds of invulnerability + a health shield on demand is too good. Its inconvenience is the balance. Its long cast time is more of a flavor choice that can be made up for in other ways than making it recast-able. 

PS: Nezha's Halo is only a little weaker than Rhino's. The main difference is Rhino has a Prime, which means increased armor, and also a higher base armor regardless. This is where the strength difference comes from. I think it's safe to expect higher armor when Nezha Prime happens, not Rhino Prime high but still higher. Just keep that in mind. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

53 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

I think the reason Nezha has such long cast times is because he's a fast warframe. I think the devs wanted to contrast this in some way. So he's slow during casting and fast everywhere else. Definitely creates some issues but it's fine if the abilities can makeup for it in other ways.

Halo falls short. Does it need to be recast-able? No, but that is a simple option. I'd prefer if there was a deactivation effect, like a blast or flash of light that CCs in a short range around you. It's flavorful, keeps his long animations, and makes it easy to see when it's time to recast when it expires. 

Everyone always asks for abilities to be recast-able, not just shielding ones. I don't think DE wants this and neither would I. 3 seconds of invulnerability + a health shield on demand is too good. Its inconvenience is the balance. Its long cast time is more of a flavor choice that can be made up for in other ways than making it recast-able. 

PS: Nezha's Halo is only a little weaker than Rhino's. The main difference is Rhino has a Prime, which means increased armor, and also a higher base armor regardless. This is where the strength difference comes from. I think it's safe to expect higher armor when Nezha Prime happens, not Rhino Prime high but still higher. Just keep that in mind. 

Rhino literally has an augment that let's him recast his Iron skin though! Rhino could take advantage of that. Iron skin works really well with its near instant 0.5 cast time. Iron skin also scales with armor so, Health conversion, steel fiber and Rhino charge augment get you some nice 100,000-300,000 skins. Warding halo is ..ehm a bit broken. It's like a broken version of the same skill, with 1.5 seconds cast time means it can't be used in combat to take advantage of the scaling as death is almost always the outcome in high leveled content. I honestly think Nezha needs a faster cast time, and tweaks to his 2 and 4.

[Trickst3rGawd]

@D20 Can we get a Nezha Feedback mega thread please? Many Nezha posts have been made recently.

Make sure to include: 

My Sk8terboi Nezha thread, this thread and the other ones made etc

Edited February 14, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[(PSN)Tego818]

Halo's fine. It isn't meant to help you tank in the traditional sense, he's not meant to take hits. It sounds like people just want to play Rhino or some other high armor frame.

If your halo is broken, you're fast enough to get out of there and get somewhere safe to cast it, without taking much, if any damage.

Just from looking through this thread, why should he be really fast, near-invulnerable, have great cc, and be able to keep allies from dying all on his own?

Honestly, he doesn't need buffs. He's one of the few frames they (almost) got perfect. Just to get rid of the forced 2nd animation when Divine Spears expires.

On 2/8/2018 at 8:14 AM, FeztacularGames said:

I am currently playing a level 60 bounty and all of my allies are dying because Warding Halo keeps breaking. I think something should be done to make it better even if it's not what I suggested.

Safeguard has half the strength of your personal halo. It's a nice little convenience, but for this type of support just play Oberon or Trin.

17 hours ago, FeztacularGames said:

OK so I did some testing where I had the most ability strength, most armor, and most health I could possibly get. In the test I spawned ONE level 90 Corrupted Heavy Gunner and they broke my Warding Halo before I could kill them and I mean I BARELY killed them. Then I did a test against a normal amount of enemies, 5 level 90 Corrupted Butchers, 2 level 90 Corrupted Crewmen, and 1 level 90 Corrupted heavy Gunner. I was easily killed before I could finish the Heavy Gunner. Now think of this, I'm in a Sortie and there is an enemy elemental enhancement AND the enemies are level 150. I would most likely be killed before actually killing anyone myself. I think it's pretty clear that Nezha needs a buff. I am asking someone to show me proof that Nezha doesn't need a buff, thanks.

You could've stunned them with literally any of his abilities, the fact that you take so much damage is on you.

[MuscleBeach]

3 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

Rhino literally has an augment that let's him recast his Iron skin though! Rhino could take advantage of that. Iron skin works really well with its near instant 0.5 cast time. Iron skin also scales with armor so, Health conversion, steel fiber and Rhino charge augment get you some nice 100,000-300,000 skins. Warding halo is ..ehm a bit broken. It's like a broken version of the same skill, with 1.5 seconds cast time means it can't be used in combat to take advantage of the scaling as death is almost always the outcome in high leveled content. I honestly think Nezha needs a faster cast time, and tweaks to his 2 and 4.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

They both scale with armor by the same amount, 2.5x

Health Conversion gives the exact same bonus health to Warding Halo as it does Iron Skin.

Steel Fibre and Friends does not, due to the warframe's base armor being different (regular Rhino has 15 more armor than Nezha, which means you can expect similar amount when comparing Nezha Prime to Rhino Prime, you just have to be patient for this part).

Recasting Iron Skin isn't that big of a bonus because of its near instant cast speed. Fight me on this. 

You can't really ask for Warding Halo to be buffed because Iron Skin has augments that can make it have ridiculous absorption that most people still don't use unless it's their first week in warframe and they think they can tank anything in the game only to be severely disappointed. 

 

Warding Halo:

Cast Time: 1.25s

Health: 900

Armor bonus: 2.5x

Nezha's Armor: 175

 

Iron Skin:

Cast TIme: Nearly Instant (not listed on wiki)

Health: 1200

Armor Bonus: 2.5x

Rhino P Armor: 275

 

Intensify + Steel Fiber shield health

Nezha: 2364

Rhino: 2856

They have a difference of 500 health and ~1 second cast time. 

 

My opinion:

1) Be patient for Nezha Prime for the base armor increase as these skills scale off of armor. 

2) Give Divine Spears an augment that gives you armor (or shield restore) for each enemy skewered or killed while skewered. 

3) A 3 second Blind/Stun upon expiration of Warding Halo to make-up for its long cast time. 

4) If you want Halo to be recast-able, add it to the augment not the base skill. 

[(XBOX)Grife7]

2 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

They both scale with armor by the same amount, 2.5x

Health Conversion gives the exact same bonus health to Warding Halo as it does Iron Skin.

Steel Fibre and Friends does not, due to the warframe's base armor being different (regular Rhino has 15 more armor than Nezha, which means you can expect similar amount when comparing Nezha Prime to Rhino Prime, you just have to be patient for this part).

Recasting Iron Skin isn't that big of a bonus because of its near instant cast speed. Fight me on this. 

You can't really ask for Warding Halo to be buffed because Iron Skin has augments that can make it have ridiculous absorption that most people still don't use unless it's their first week in warframe and they think they can tank anything in the game only to be severely disappointed. 

 

Warding Halo:

Cast Time: 1.25s

Health: 900

Armor bonus: 2.5x

Nezha's Armor: 175

 

Iron Skin:

Cast TIme: Nearly Instant (not listed on wiki)

Health: 1200

Armor Bonus: 2.5x

Rhino P Armor: 275

 

Intensify + Steel Fiber shield health

Nezha: 2364

Rhino: 2856

They have a difference of 500 health and ~1 second cast time. 

 

My opinion:

1) Be patient for Nezha Prime for the base armor increase as these skills scale off of armor. 

2) Give Divine Spears an augment that gives you armor (or shield restore) for each enemy skewered or killed while skewered. 

3) A 3 second Blind/Stun upon expiration of Warding Halo to make-up for its long cast time. 

4) If you want Halo to be recast-able, add it to the augment not the base skill. 

No one is saying they think he should be able to tank everything in the game. The issue I think most of us have is when we are at low halo levels and and we go from 5% halo to just dead in one hit. There is no time to jump out of danger, because you are dead. If a blind went off at that moment it wouldn't matter because you are dead. Being able to choose when to take it off is a huge boon for rhino, because he doesn't have to wait for those very low percentages and therefore doesn't have as much of the one shot problem. He also just has better base stats health and shield wise if I remember correctly. Having a faster cast time is important, because you need to be able to cast it close to enemies in order to take full advantage of the scaling mechanic.