A possible Nezha rework

[FeztacularGames]

So, someone was trying to argue that Nezha doesn't need a buff/I am bad at Warframe.

To give some context, I pointed out how Ember is still severely broken even "post-nerf" and they said that me playing Nezha (whilst trying to protect this same person with Warding Halo) was funny and that I am pretty much bad.

They point out a lot of things that I already know, probably to try and make themselves look smarter.

They tell me what mods to use, as if I have them and make it seem like the mods that I have are weak. They also said that I need better efficiency, which, while it is true, Nezha's Warding Halo consumes too much energy anyways. I shouldn't NEED to use Fleeting Expertise to make Nezha's Halo cost less.

Then to finish everything off, they claim that I am just complaining about other frames being broken and not trying to "find a way to solve it".

See, when most people try to say that Nezha doesn't need a buff, they make it a skill thing. "youre just bad, git gud" "your mods are bad"

You get the point. The thing is, however, when I use the best possible mods I can, my damage absorption is around 5-6k. Not very much for protecting other people with, by the way.

When I am swooping, diving, and shooting through the playing field, even if I am killing enemies at a very efficient rate, I will most likely be dead in 5 minutes.

Warframe isn't really a skill based game, it's all about "what's the most broken frame can I get?" So with that being said, Nezha is NOT BROKEN AT ALL. He's probably one of the squishiest frames without his Halo and even with his Halo he can be killed pretty quickly. This just means that Nezha needs a buff, but just ignore all of that, "I am complaining instead of looking for a way to solve it".

This person also started ignoring me, by the way. It's just ignoring the truth, and that makes you ignorant.

Thanks for listening to my little rant there.

[Trickst3rGawd]

2 hours ago, FeztacularGames said:

So, someone was trying to argue that Nezha doesn't need a buff/I am bad at Warframe.

To give some context, I pointed out how Ember is still severely broken even "post-nerf" and they said that me playing Nezha (whilst trying to protect this same person with Warding Halo) was funny and that I am pretty much bad.

They point out a lot of things that I already know, probably to try and make themselves look smarter.

They tell me what mods to use, as if I have them and make it seem like the mods that I have are weak. They also said that I need better efficiency, which, while it is true, Nezha's Warding Halo consumes too much energy anyways. I shouldn't NEED to use Fleeting Expertise to make Nezha's Halo cost less.

Then to finish everything off, they claim that I am just complaining about other frames being broken and not trying to "find a way to solve it".

See, when most people try to say that Nezha doesn't need a buff, they make it a skill thing. "youre just bad, git gud" "your mods are bad"

You get the point. The thing is, however, when I use the best possible mods I can, my damage absorption is around 5-6k. Not very much for protecting other people with, by the way.

When I am swooping, diving, and shooting through the playing field, even if I am killing enemies at a very efficient rate, I will most likely be dead in 5 minutes.

Warframe isn't really a skill based game, it's all about "what's the most broken frame can I get?" So with that being said, Nezha is NOT BROKEN AT ALL. He's probably one of the squishiest frames without his Halo and even with his Halo he can be killed pretty quickly. This just means that Nezha needs a buff, but just ignore all of that, "I am complaining instead of looking for a way to solve it".

This person also started ignoring me, by the way. It's just ignoring the truth, and that makes you ignorant.

Thanks for listening to my little rant there.

No problem! I totally agree.. with everything. I was saying the same thing on a long time ago post I made and there were people either agreeing, and or shutting people down on my post saying "get better"

[IllegallyHuge]

Nezha safeguard needs to have a cast radius. It can be frustrating following around players trying to cast it on them. Another Nezha can cast it upon your sentinel but you can't. 

[FeztacularGames]

19 minutes ago, IllegallyHuge said:

Nezha safeguard needs to have a cast radius. It can be frustrating following around players trying to cast it on them. Another Nezha can cast it upon your sentinel but you can't. 

I can cast on my own sentinel I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Trickst3rGawd]

*bump*

[(XBOX)Aquarii Ptosi]

On 2/13/2018 at 11:19 PM, MuscleBeach said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

They both scale with armor by the same amount, 2.5x

Health Conversion gives the exact same bonus health to Warding Halo as it does Iron Skin.

Steel Fibre and Friends does not, due to the warframe's base armor being different (regular Rhino has 15 more armor than Nezha, which means you can expect similar amount when comparing Nezha Prime to Rhino Prime, you just have to be patient for this part).

Recasting Iron Skin isn't that big of a bonus because of its near instant cast speed. Fight me on this. 

You can't really ask for Warding Halo to be buffed because Iron Skin has augments that can make it have ridiculous absorption that most people still don't use unless it's their first week in warframe and they think they can tank anything in the game only to be severely disappointed. 

 

Warding Halo:

Cast Time: 1.25s

Health: 900

Armor bonus: 2.5x

Nezha's Armor: 175

 

Iron Skin:

Cast TIme: Nearly Instant (not listed on wiki)

Health: 1200

Armor Bonus: 2.5x

Rhino P Armor: 275

 

Intensify + Steel Fiber shield health

Nezha: 2364

Rhino: 2856

They have a difference of 500 health and ~1 second cast time. 

 

My opinion:

1) Be patient for Nezha Prime for the base armor increase as these skills scale off of armor. 

2) Give Divine Spears an augment that gives you armor (or shield restore) for each enemy skewered or killed while skewered. 

3) A 3 second Blind/Stun upon expiration of Warding Halo to make-up for its long cast time. 

4) If you want Halo to be recast-able, add it to the augment not the base skill. 

You forgot to mention that rhino also has a duration for absorb threshold sitting at 3sec vs WH's 3sec but max absorption of 1.3k dmg b4 mods so rhinos is still exponetionally better.

 

A lot of people for some reason think it's busted to have a recastable innate skin but that's not true rhinos augment allows him to do it and CC at the same time and if built right clear rooms of enemies easily. Rhinos base iron skin was already hitting 300k so most of these counter points seem invalid. If it was "too op" DE would have removed that augment especially when you consider that RS is regardless better than WH in every way.

Warding halo needs buffs and a recastable form would be nice but it would still be garbage comparatively regaurdless of how you mod as it's still crippled by its mechanics/thematics.

 

Also that 500 rs gap was only from 30% and sf  that gap is based off multiplicitive numbers so that gap increases exponetionally with higher ps or armor.

 

I agree that rhino has a lot of outlets to increasing his armor via augments ect but his base rs is still better and that shouldn't be trivislized when comparing.

 

Lastly armor isn't ever in a good place so things based off armor tend to suck and only even work because of their invurablity like globe ect. 

[MuscleBeach]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aquarii Ptosi said:

You forgot to mention that rhino also has a duration for absorb threshold sitting at 3sec vs WH's 3sec but max absorption of 1.3k dmg b4 mods so rhinos is still exponetionally better.

What absorption are you talking about? There's no absorption caps on either of them. The only difference in their shield amount calculations is that the warframes have different base armor values and Iron skin has 300 more base shield health. 

 

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aquarii Ptosi said:

If it was "too op" DE would have removed that augment especially when you consider that RS is regardless better than WH in every way.

It's not too OP inside an augment. Put it in an augment for nezha too. Just don't put it in the base skill. 

[(XBOX)Aquarii Ptosi]

https://goo.gl/images/YuQ4WT

1 hour ago, MuscleBeach said:

What absorption are you talking about? There's no absorption caps on either of them. The only difference in their shield amount calculations is that the warframes have different base armor values and Iron skin has 300 more base shield health. 

 

It's not too OP inside an augment. Put it in an augment for nezha too. Just don't put it in the base skill. 

There's a damage abolsirbtion value listed at 1,337 at max rank that's affected by power strength. It's not found on the wiki but is listed in game. Nezah's halo is severely limited and that's why making it recastable innately isn't busted hell iron shrapnel isn't busted because if you don't actually time the discharge for the CC knockdown iron skin acts much like shields in that you don't get a dmg negate instead the extra dmg is transferred to the warframe and being that nezha already has less shields and less health and less armor warrants it into balanced territory hell its probably not even enough to be honest.

 

So nezha' s actual potential armor value is 

(Armor x 2.5) 437.5 + a max of 1,337 before modding = 1,774.5

Rhino is 475 + infinate scaling

Prime is 687.5 + infinate scaling

 

Also a quick question to create a counter point but why do you guys think it's too op exactly? There's far better abilities that give better invincibility... I almost wrote invisibility.

Nezha has no real way to increase armor outside of arcanes regulare mods and syndicate burst so it's not like it could ever hope to reach iron skin levels of actual OP'ness and things that tend to look good on paper tend to not always be that way in practice.

Edited February 21, 2018 by (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi

[(XBOX)Aquarii Ptosi]

On 2/18/2018 at 9:06 AM, FeztacularGames said:

So, someone was trying to argue that Nezha doesn't need a buff/I am bad at Warframe.

To give some context, I pointed out how Ember is still severely broken even "post-nerf" and they said that me playing Nezha (whilst trying to protect this same person with Warding Halo) was funny and that I am pretty much bad.

They point out a lot of things that I already know, probably to try and make themselves look smarter.

They tell me what mods to use, as if I have them and make it seem like the mods that I have are weak. They also said that I need better efficiency, which, while it is true, Nezha's Warding Halo consumes too much energy anyways. I shouldn't NEED to use Fleeting Expertise to make Nezha's Halo cost less.

Then to finish everything off, they claim that I am just complaining about other frames being broken and not trying to "find a way to solve it".

See, when most people try to say that Nezha doesn't need a buff, they make it a skill thing. "youre just bad, git gud" "your mods are bad"

You get the point. The thing is, however, when I use the best possible mods I can, my damage absorption is around 5-6k. Not very much for protecting other people with, by the way.

When I am swooping, diving, and shooting through the playing field, even if I am killing enemies at a very efficient rate, I will most likely be dead in 5 minutes.

Warframe isn't really a skill based game, it's all about "what's the most broken frame can I get?" So with that being said, Nezha is NOT BROKEN AT ALL. He's probably one of the squishiest frames without his Halo and even with his Halo he can be killed pretty quickly. This just means that Nezha needs a buff, but just ignore all of that, "I am complaining instead of looking for a way to solve it".

This person also started ignoring me, by the way. It's just ignoring the truth, and that makes you ignorant.

Thanks for listening to my little rant there.

Not sure how you run nezha but if you have the mods and weapons you could try health conversion hema and broken scepter.. It's super effective once you pull it off just pop in WH then kill use scepter to spawn a heath orb 3 times use the hema to loss health to pick up the orbs then just off map and really Halo for a decent halo value with littled build requirements.

[MuscleBeach]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aquarii Ptosi said:

There's a damage abolsirbtion value listed at 1,337 at max rank that's affected by power strength. It's not found on the wiki but is listed in game.

I find this hard to believe so I'll refrain from speaking on this until I've had a chance to look myself. You're also not factoring in the CC halo provides.

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aquarii Ptosi said:

Also a quick question to create a counter point but why do you guys think it's too op exactly? There's far better abilities that give better invincibility... I almost wrote invisibility.

It's OP because 3 second invulnerability + damage shield on demand with no drawbacks basically means you're invincible. You have to be at lvls that are ridiculous and the game is clearly not balanced for to get 1 shot out of your Halo or for Frost's bubble to be useless outside of 3 second invulnerability stage. You don't make balance arguments for things above lvl 100 because that's not what the game is being balanced towards. 

 

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aquarii Ptosi said:

Nezha has no real way to increase armor outside of arcanes regulare mods and syndicate burst so it's not like it could ever hope to reach iron skin levels of actual OP'ness and things that tend to look good on paper tend to not always be that way in practice.

Which is why I promote ideas that aren't making it recastable: 

Increased armor for each enemy Divine Speared.

Nezha gets healed for each enemy killed while speared by Divine Spears and can heal Halo. 

 

Nezha still doesn't have a Divine Spear augment which means there's more opportunities than usual to make positive changes. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

7 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

I find this hard to believe so I'll refrain from speaking on this until I've had a chance to look myself. You're also not factoring in the CC halo provides.

It's OP because 3 second invulnerability + damage shield on demand with no drawbacks basically means you're invincible. You have to be at lvls that are ridiculous and the game is clearly not balanced for to get 1 shot out of your Halo or for Frost's bubble to be useless outside of 3 second invulnerability stage. You don't make balance arguments for things above lvl 100 because that's not what the game is being balanced towards. 

 

Which is why I promote ideas that aren't making it recastable: 

Increased armor for each enemy Divine Speared.

Nezha gets healed for each enemy killed while speared by Divine Spears and can heal Halo. 

 

Nezha still doesn't have a Divine Spear augment which means there's more opportunities than usual to make positive changes. 

Ehm he's right about the absorption value. Also that CC halo provides is close range. You can still get 1-2 by a sniper and you can still get gunned down from mid range and you're not running around like a wahoo and doing acrobatics lmao.

[FeztacularGames]

Ok so I might have to drop Nezha for a bit because, he gets killed in sortie, the Void, and I couldn't even do a 1 hour survival without almost losing all of my revives. 

If anyone from DE can see this, please fix/buff Nezha. He is my favorite frame and I really like his abilities and design, but for the most part he is just too squishy for anything past... what... level 60 maybe? Hey, maybe even release his fix/buff with the release of his deluxe skin, I'm sure his popularity would surge quite a bit. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 hour ago, FeztacularGames said:

Ok so I might have to drop Nezha for a bit because, he gets killed in sortie, the Void, and I couldn't even do a 1 hour survival without almost losing all of my revives. 

If anyone from DE can see this, please fix/buff Nezha. He is my favorite frame and I really like his abilities and design, but for the most part he is just too squishy for anything past... what... level 60 maybe? Hey, maybe even release his fix/buff with the release of his deluxe skin, I'm sure his popularity would surge quite a bit. 

I've been trying to let people know but a lot of people have been brushing it off..

[MuscleBeach]

On 2/21/2018 at 10:32 AM, (Xbox One)Aquarii Ptosi said:

There's a damage abolsirbtion value listed at 1,337 at max rank that's affected by power strength. It's not found on the wiki but is listed in game.

I finally got around to checking this. That 1337 is how much Nezha can absorb. It's listed in the wiki correctly. The in game # is factoring in the warframe's armor, that's why it looks different than the wiki. Just like how Rhino's Iron Skin amount doesn't match, because it factors in his armor into the ability screen, even when view stats without mods is selected because their innate armor is not a mod. So, I'm not sure what you were trying to get at. Every comparison I've made has been accurate.

This whole time I was thinking that you meant his 3 second invulnerability only allows you to absorb 1337 worth of damage... That's not the case. Warding Halo and Iron skin are identical except for base health (300 difference) and the cast time. The only other difference is the warframes have two different base armor values (Nezha at 175 and Rhino at 190 and Rhino P at 275) which do effect the skill. Nezha Prime will not have such a large gap. Currently, 300*Power strength is essentially the difference between the two, mostly, and the casting speed.

I still think Halo needs a buff to make up for the cast speed and a little more than what he currently has to make-up for the 300 less Halo health. An Augment on divine spears that increases armor would also help, just like how Rhino has augments for his other skills that help his iron skin. Halo being central to Nezha's survival, this is important. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by MuscleBeach