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Riven Transmutation


malekas
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So, with the Shrine of Eidolon update coming it was revealed that Eidolons would have a chance to drop a Riven Transmuter. These new consumable items will allow players to transmute 4 Rivens into a new one. Now, while I never touch Rivens myself (I just throw them away for more Endo), I can't help but scratch my head at the news of these new items. 5 months ago during Devstream 97 DE was asked about transmuting Rivens, and this was Scott's response:

 

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Is the RNG bucket really a good place to put [Riven Transmutation] for players that have earned them, you know?

Personally I don't love the RNG of it because it just, [Rivens are] hard to get, so then throwing them away into an RNG pool seems bad to me. I dunno.

I think that's my hesitation to it, that kinda "icky" aspect of it.

 

Apparently Scott has had a change of heart (Which can happen, no harm or foul there). But with this new system there will be EVEN MORE RNG than what players suggested 5 months ago, since it's a "chance" that an Eidolon will drop the item.

 

So this is my question to DE:

 

If transmuting Rivens was an unacceptable level of RNG (which is laughable considering Rivens are nothing but black pit of RNG), how does adding more RNG to that suddenly make it okay?

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RNG times RNG equals RNG. See, everything is fine. /s

For real though, you are kind of right, but I think it is too early to make such a call. If the drop chance is not too low, then I don't see a need to worry. I think it is also better for the Riven economy that there is another layer, because I imagine soon no one is going to sell Rivens for weapons which are not popular, because they'd rather transmute them into a chance for a another Scoliac riven or so. At least it sounds like we are getting a guaranteed Riven of a specific type if we transmute 4 of the same type. 

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I usually don't mind mild RNG on most things but this is honestly out of place. For one, Eidolons have nothing to do with kuva, so what's the point in attaching the new items to them. Second... why even have items to begin with (if not to attach any reward to new Eidolons).

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2 hours ago, malekas said:

If transmuting Rivens was an unacceptable level of RNG (which is laughable considering Rivens are nothing but black pit of RNG), how does adding more RNG to that suddenly make it okay?

It makes people who want to transmute Rivens play the new content. Transmuting Rivens just normally was never on the table, per Scott. However, using it as a carrot to get people to play new content, that works for them.

If people actually want to transmute Rivens, it's a success.

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Maybe I can help fill ya'll in as to why this is a good thing for some players.

There are those of us that want rivens.  And we don't mind grinding sorties for them.  But at the same time, we hate the riven market.  It's beyond a timesink and the haggling and what is a god roll what isn't a godroll....for consoles it's beyond tedious.   And the majority of your rivens aren't super awesome.  I just gave 5 of them away to my clan members because selling trash rivens is a pain but it seems like they should be more than just fuel for endo.

So having a way to transmute 4 thrash rivens into one new to me riven is extremely useful to a player like myself because I don't mind the grind.  I prefer it over having to mess with the trade chat and having to farm things to sell in order to get the plat to be able to trade in the first place.  

I just hope they increase the amount of rivens you can own to account for this change in the rivensphere.  Not by a ton, but by some.  Say 4 or 5.   

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34 minutes ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Maybe I can help fill ya'll in as to why this is a good thing for some players.

There are those of us that want rivens.  And we don't mind grinding sorties for them.  But at the same time, we hate the riven market.  It's beyond a timesink and the haggling and what is a god roll what isn't a godroll....for consoles it's beyond tedious.   And the majority of your rivens aren't super awesome.  I just gave 5 of them away to my clan members because selling trash rivens is a pain but it seems like they should be more than just fuel for endo.

So having a way to transmute 4 thrash rivens into one new to me riven is extremely useful to a player like myself because I don't mind the grind.  I prefer it over having to mess with the trade chat and having to farm things to sell in order to get the plat to be able to trade in the first place.  

I just hope they increase the amount of rivens you can own to account for this change in the rivensphere.  Not by a ton, but by some.  Say 4 or 5.   

Nobody is suggesting that Riven Transmutation shouldn't exist. The frustration is aimed at how a necessary item to let you transmute rivens is locked behind Eidolons, for no reason other than to artificially inflate the Eidolons' worth. Riven Transmutation is a great idea but it seems dumb to have it locked behind something completely unrelated.

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4 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

Nobody is suggesting that Riven Transmutation shouldn't exist. The frustration is aimed at how a necessary item to let you transmute rivens is locked behind Eidolons, for no reason other than to artificially inflate the Eidolons' worth. Riven Transmutation is a great idea but it seems dumb to have it locked behind something completely unrelated.

Two thoughts;

Ehhhh, slippery slope there.  Why is anything locked behind anything?  Why can't I get Blind Rage if I don't have access to the Orokin derelict?  Why can't I access Primed mods if I don't have a ton of Duckets and credits?  

Is it really "locked behind something that doesn't make any sense?" or does it now give Eidolon hunting a bit more punch and payoff?  You're correct, it does "inflate" the Terralyst, but is that really a bad thing?  

Let's say they didn't put riven transmutes and relics in PoE...where would it have gone?   Archwing missions?  Uranus?  Void?  Lua?  Create a Stage IV sortie? 

No matter where they put it, it would be "wrong" as far as the player base is concerned in some way.    Were you scratching your head when they introduced Toxin dual status mods in T4 void only?  Did those make sense to be locked behind Vor?

Can't we just appreciate the addition and not gripe at what you have to go through to get it?  Warframe is Grind.  Grind is life.  

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Would be a little nicer if we were given a selection of two or maybe three different rivens (could be different weapons or maybe even a chance of two of the same) to choose from once you've transmuted four.

I'd go as far as to say maybe have specific recipes for transmutations but I couldn't see De doing that as they like the rng.

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58 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Would be a little nicer if we were given a selection of two or maybe three different rivens (could be different weapons or maybe even a chance of two of the same) to choose from once you've transmuted four.

I'd go as far as to say maybe have specific recipes for transmutations but I couldn't see De doing that as they like the rng.

I'll be happy if we can use a transmute core to replace a Riven and guarantee a polarity.

That would also give the simaris grind some punch too

Edited by Hypernaut1
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3 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

So having a way to transmute 4 thrash rivens into one new to me riven is extremely useful to a player like myself because I don't mind the grind

How about 4 trashy riven transmuted to another trashy riven. How about wasting a month or several month supply of rivens and getting 1 trashy riven in return. I'm not touching this hell hole. This is grind to oblivion. There is no guaranteed progression which is needed for this to work right.

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1 hour ago, Valiant said:

Would be a little nicer if we were given a selection of two or maybe three different rivens (could be different weapons or maybe even a chance of two of the same) to choose from once you've transmuted four.

The only way I can see how this can work. If it is bumped up to 5 riven choices, that would be whole lot better.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb jd2fs:

How about 4 trashy riven transmuted to another trashy riven. How about wasting a month or several month supply of rivens and getting 1 trashy riven in return. I'm not touching this hell hole. This is grind to oblivion. There is no guaranteed progression which is needed for this to work right.

Doesn't matter, it offers something worth trying even if you didn't get the lucky Godroll you've hoped for. There's no downside at all in Riven Transmutation, turning 4 Trash Rivens into 1 Trash Riven still grants you 3 Riven Slots worth 60 Plat. It's a win/win situation where you get the chance for something good, but even if you fail at that gamble you still get the slots freed up for new Rivens. Hell I'd be okay with a 10 to 1 ratio if that'd slightly increase the chance of getting a 3 positive-1 negative Riven. 

The whole Riven system only works because it's random, asking for a guaranteed progression is like asking for a quaranteed win in a casino. Won't happen because it'd completely break the system. If there was anything guaranteed about Rivens everyone would quickly be running around with the most OP Riven for the most OP weapon and then forget about it.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jd2fs:

The only way I can see how this can work. If it is bumped up to 5 riven choices, that would be whole lot better.

Or 10, why not 20? Might as well hand out a bunch of Rivens for free while we're at it. We get a chance to turn trash into something good, that's a massive improvement and one that's been requested ever since Rivens got introduced. 

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7 minutes ago, Maercurial said:

Doesn't matter, it offers something worth trying even if you didn't get the lucky Godroll you've hoped for. There's no downside at all in Riven Transmutation, turning 4 Trash Rivens into 1 Trash Riven still grants you 3 Riven Slots worth 60 Plat. It's a win/win situation where you get the chance for something good, but even if you fail at that gamble you still get the slots freed up for new Rivens. Hell I'd be okay with a 10 to 1 ratio if that'd slightly increase the chance of getting a 3 positive-1 negative Riven. 

The whole Riven system only works because it's random, asking for a guaranteed progression is like asking for a quaranteed win in a casino. Won't happen because it'd completely break the system. If there was anything guaranteed about Rivens everyone would quickly be running around with the most OP Riven for the most OP weapon and then forget about it.

Or 10, why not 20? Might as well hand out a bunch of Rivens for free while we're at it. We get a chance to turn trash into something good, that's a massive improvement and one that's been requested ever since Rivens got introduced. 

hmm.. Someone like to eat garbage.. That is not how you gain slots that you already have in possesion.

 

Wth are you talking about breaking system? This is exactly making things a hell o alot worse. Instead of forcing people to sell rivens and rebalance the market, it actually makes people waste them away in a lotto machine. transmutation with normal mods is already fubar. This is 10x worse.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Ehhhh, slippery slope there.  Why is anything locked behind anything?  Why can't I get Blind Rage if I don't have access to the Orokin derelict?  Why can't I access Primed mods if I don't have a ton of Duckets and credits?

Not the same. If riven transmutation worked like regular transmutation you'd still have something that you already essentially need to grind in the first place, i.e the 4 rivens you need in order to transmute in the first place. I'm not asking to gain something for free. 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Is it really "locked behind something that doesn't make any sense?" or does it now give Eidolon hunting a bit more punch and payoff?  You're correct, it does "inflate" the Terralyst, but is that really a bad thing?  

 

Yes, it is locked behind something that doesn't make sense. Mod transmuting is something that already exists so there is no real reason to force us to hunt EIdolons to preform a feature that existed before Eidolons.

3 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Let's say they didn't put riven transmutes and relics in PoE...where would it have gone?   Archwing missions?  Uranus?  Void?  Lua?  Create a Stage IV sortie? 

 

None of those places. It doesn't need to be an item drop, it should work like mod transmutation already does. 

3 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

No matter where they put it, it would be "wrong" as far as the player base is concerned in some way.    Were you scratching your head when they introduced Toxin dual status mods in T4 void only?  Did those make sense to be locked behind Vor?

 

Once again, this is not the same thing. I'm fine with them making mods a reward but the ability to transmute rivens doesn't make sense as a reward because the act of transmuting a riven 1. Is not free because you need to sacrifice 4 rivens,. 2. Is something that you can already do with regular mods with the need for farming a transmuter, and 3. Doesn't guarantee you something better than your original four mods. 

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Can't we just appreciate the addition and not gripe at what you have to go through to get it?  Warframe is Grind.  Grind is life.  

You are capable of stating your opinion every bit as much as everyone else. That's the purpose of the forums. If nobody griped about things that bothered them then nothing would ever get fixed.

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb jd2fs:

Wth are you talking about breaking system? This is exactly making things a hell o alot worse. Instead of forcing people to sell rivens and rebalance the market, it actually makes people waste them away in a lotto machine.

You cannot force people to sell Rivens, we're talking about Trash Rivens here, which are Rivens no one wanted to buy. So, you can't sell them or you don't want to waste time in Tradechat selling a S#&$ty Riven to the one person that might buy it off you after half an hour for 5 Plat. These are the ones so bad you could only disolve them for Endo. Now we get a chance to turn them into another, better Riven, that's so much more valuable than gaining a little bit of Endo. 

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3 minutes ago, Maercurial said:

You cannot force people to sell Rivens, we're talking about Trash Rivens here, which are Rivens no one wanted to buy. So, you can't sell them or you don't want to waste time in Tradechat selling a S#&$ty Riven to the one person that might buy it off you after half an hour for 5 Plat. These are the ones so bad you could only disolve them for Endo. Now we get a chance to turn them into another, better Riven, that's so much more valuable than gaining a little bit of Endo. 

You like a chance to gain a better riven but that transmutation is more likely than not  make it even more garbage than it is already is. What if you had 4  rivens like bronco and then that turn into grade D riven like kraken. You might as well give up. This stinks up the you know what. Given 5 choices is not going to break anything. Out of those 5 choices probably only 1 is worth keeping. Regular transmutation as it stands now I'm not going to touch is 10 foot pole. 

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb jd2fs:

You like a chance to gain a better riven but that transmutation is more likely than not  make it even more garbage than it is already is. What if you had 4  rivens like bronco and then that turn into grade D riven like kraken. You might as well give up. 

No, as I said, that would still be a good trade. Three free slots is good not bad, in your example you lost nothing because the Rivens you traded in are Trash and the one you got is Trash too. Nothing of value was lost here, you only win free slots.

Well, if you don't wanna use it then don't, meanwhile I'll enjoy a new way to gain new Rivens without losing anything of value to me. This change was requested and they listened and intend to implement it, that's basically a free gift* and people still complain.

*I doubt it's going to be a rare drop, the rare ones will be the Arcanes, more likely than not you'll be swimming in more Riven Transmutation Cores than you'll be able to use anytime soon after just a few runs. 

Edited by Maercurial
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I

7 minutes ago, jd2fs said:

You like a chance to gain a better riven but that transmutation is more likely than not  make it even more garbage than it is already is. What if you had 4  rivens like bronco and then that turn into grade D riven like kraken. You might as well give up. This stinks up the you know what. Given 5 choices is not going to break anything. Out of those 5 choices probably only 1 is worth keeping. Regular transmutation as it stands now I'm not going to touch is 10 foot pole. 

You forget that transmuting it optional. Either you really to keep those Rivens, or your willing to risk them to get a chance at something better. I have several duplicates and sentinel Rivens that I have no problem transmuting no matter what they bring

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5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I

You forget that transmuting it optional. Either you really to keep those Rivens, or your willing to risk them to get a chance at something better. I have several duplicates and sentinel Rivens that I have no problem transmuting no matter what they bring

Transmuting to get another sentinel riven...

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7 minutes ago, Maercurial said:

I'll enjoy a new way to gain new Rivens without losing anything of value to me

throwing crap against the wall and getting back crap. Wow at least I had some hope it would be different this time.. As it stands, there is not really incentive for me to participate in this lotto machine.

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