Riven Transmutation

[Hypernaut1]

8 minutes ago, jd2fs said:

Transmuting to get another sentinel riven...

Either way, it's better than Endo... To me. If it's not too you, then you don't have to transmute.

I predict there will be A LOT it salt (extra) on forums as people start to complain about transmuting Rivens they "loved" to get trash.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[(PSN)zedlanik]

Transmutation should let you pick one buff from your riven and then you can re roll other stats like I got riven for vectis 128 crit chance but plus 58 zoom so if I can use Transmutation to lock crit chance and then re roll other stats that would help lot as trash rivens mostly I turn them in too endo or credits 

[jd2fs]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Either way, it's better than Endo... To me. If possible it's not too you, then you don't have to transmute.

I predict there will be A LOT it salt (extra) on forums as people start to complain about transmuting Rivens they "loved" to get trash.

How is this better? You just wasted 4 rivens worth of endo for 1 riven worth of endo. I think what Valiant suggested was step in right direction. Having some choices for the output is actually worth the effort. Just the chance is not enough.

[Hypernaut1]

5 minutes ago, jd2fs said:

How is this better? You just wasted 4 rivens worth of endo for 1 riven worth of endo. I think what Valiant suggested was step in right direction. Having some choices for the output is actually worth the effort. Just the chance is not enough.

Because I don't need Endo. I prefer to have a chance at a new Riven then get Endo from 4. 

Personally, I'm not too picky with Rivens. I don't chase the meta. I find a use for the majority of the Rivens I unlock unless it's a duplicate. I would mainly be transmuting duplicates and sentinel weapons. 

[Man_In_Suitcase]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)zedlanik said:

Transmutation should let you pick one buff from your riven and then you can re roll other stats like I got riven for vectis 128 crit chance but plus 58 zoom so if I can use Transmutation to lock crit chance and then re roll other stats that would help lot as trash rivens mostly I turn them in too endo or credits 

This.Transmuting rivens just gives us another whammy of RNG to contend with. Instead of the Transmuting rivens we should be able to 'lock in' that one specific stat form being rerolled. To balance, we should only be able to lock in just one stat per riven, thus giving us a choice. This still preserves the core RNG of rivens all without making it any more laborious to get a desired roll.

I don't even transmute normal mods because I don't like the RNG, so I'll be damned doing it to rivens.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Man_In_Suitcase

[jd2fs]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I prefer to have a chance at a new Riven then get Endo from 4.

What if that new riven is already something you already have.. The transmutation they have is currently not good enough

[(PSN)zedlanik]

3 minutes ago, Man_In_Suitcase said:

This.Transmuting rivens just gives us another whammy of RNG to contend with. Instead of the Transmuting rivens we should be able to 'lock in' that one specific stat form being rerolled. To balance, we should only be able to lock in just one stat per riven, thus giving us a choice. This still preserves the core RNG of rivens all without making it any more laborious to get a desired roll.

I don't even transmute normal mods because I don't like the RNG, so I'll be damned doing it to rivens.

True just one specific buff that you like which can't be undone 

[(PSN)zedlanik]

Plus I don't get that rivens are only mods that can give you -zoom why don't we have mods that can do that and let rivens give us buffs

[PR1D3]

26 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Because I don't need Endo. I prefer to have a chance at a new Riven then get Endo from 4. 

Personally, I'm not too picky with Rivens. I don't chase the meta. I find a use for the majority of the Rivens I unlock unless it's a duplicate. I would mainly be transmuting duplicates and sentinel weapons. 

dude you might as well stop. that guy is committed to the notion that its 100% bad and there's not a single redeeming or remotely positive aspect. 

[Hypernaut1]

19 minutes ago, jd2fs said:

What if that new riven is already something you already have.. The transmutation they have is currently not good enough

What if it's something I don't have?

[jd2fs]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What if it's something I don't have?

But is that something worth the effort. The current transmutation system as it currently stands does not work. It produces more crap that you're likely throw out than keep.

[jd2fs]

12 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

that guy is committed to the notion that its 100% bad and there's not a single redeeming or remotely positive aspect.

Did I ever say it's completely useless? Others have made similar suggestions to make this work. You would rather not listen and just eat up whatever garbage DE tosses your way.

[PR1D3]

1 minute ago, jd2fs said:

Did I ever say it's completely useless? Others have made similar suggestions to make this work. You would rather not listen and just eat up whatever garbage DE tosses your way.

 someone else made the suggestion while you spend the entire time ignoring the points raised by other people while insulting them, making a few garbage eating remarks. You don't have to explicitly say its useless when you want to ignore everyone's points while being a mean-girl *@##$ about everything. But I would rather not listen, cause you know I'm only a Pot. And you're black.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

10 hours ago, Tellakey said:

Eidolons have nothing to do with kuva, so what's the point in attaching the new items to them.

This. So much this. It's on the same why tf-ness of how some frame needs kuva to build. Lores man, lores..

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

Reviewing this thread, I'm reminded of a quote, "If common sense was common, we wouldn't have a name for it".  

Endo:  I have two trash rivens I would gladly transmute today.  If I converted them to endo I'd get maybe 320ish endo.  If I doubled that amount (4 rivens) I'll ballpark it at 700.  Which is a relatively small amount of endo.  To put this in perspective; the lowest Ayatan Sculpture when filled with stars is under 1500 endo and 700 endo will max out a common mod like Pressure Point with some left over.  And don't even start frothing at the mouth about "that's a lot to new players" - Rivens drop from sorties and you pretty much have to be MR12 to open those up. 

So if you're telling me that < 1000 endo has greater value to you than the possibility to get a new riven for something that you already use or want to make infinitely better then my recommendation would be that you immediately start in the exciting field of prostitution and get addicted to heroin.  Since you've already displayed that you have next to no viable cognitive skills, this is likely where you're going to end up anyways, so why wait?  Act now.  

We're talking about trash rivens.  Not rivens.  Trash rivens.  Stuff you can't even get anyone to look at buying on the market.  They have almost no value other than scraps of endo and a pittance of credits.  There's no math here.  1+1 does equal 2.  

"Lottery rng bad herp derp": I won't say this is the single dumbest thing I've ever seen on any message board ever, anywhere since the beginning of time; but I wouldn't argue against it.

 So you don't want to have to deal with more RNG?  Why are you even here?  The whole game is built around RNG.  I think the only two places in the entire game where you can run a single instance that is not an alert and be guaranteed a specific reward is Clem and Maroo's weekly's (and even then only one is truly guaranteed).  That's it.  In the whole damn game you have a handful of alerts per day and two weekly's.  The rest is ALL RNG.  This is about as asinine as logging into BF1 and whining about having to shoot everything all the time.  

So it's a different kind of RNG?  OH NOES...MUST UNISTALL!  Seriously, this makes about as much sense as another Fantastic Four reboot from Fox.  It's so cosmically dense it bends light. 

Lore: It's not my bag, but for those of you that are seriously up in arms about Terries having Kuva based items, you absolutely have a right to feel a little zinged and it it sucks that it lessens your player experience. 

I mean, it's not like anything else in this game about undead space ninjas with magical powers (but only FOUR) that are actually piloted by young children who have been comatose for decades/centuries/eons who are lead around by an evolved speak and spell who keeps you in the dark about everything you do and refuses to fork over free forma on a regular basis while fighting off hordes of enemies that have the ability to lock you and three of your friends into a hallway until the end of time but can't seem to put 2 strips of duct tape over ceiling vents to prevent said young children remotely piloting (except for when they choose to pop out of the suit and then immediately return to their orbiter ship because - transference) said magically imbued zombie space ninjas from breaking into their space born battle galleons or highly secure military bases doesn't make any sense. 

Yeah, I guess you got me there.  Shucks, we might as well take off and nuke the entire server from orbit...it's the only way to be sure...to protect the lore.

 

[jd2fs]

4 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

So you don't want to have to deal with more RNG?  Why are you even here?  The whole game is built around RNG.

It is not about just RNG. It is about the expected value of that RNG. When you spend time in warframe, there is an expectation of some value added for the overall time you spend on it whether it be enjoyment, new toy to play with, plat etc.. For most missions where you don't get what you're looking for, there are still residue of your effort (wisp, relics, armor drop, endo). If the transmutation rng is bad, you could only get 1 thing of value out of 10 times you do it. Even Hypernaut1 pointed out there is going lot of salt if this doesn't work out right.  Plus, you're wasting riven slots (plats that could have be better spent on something else) to keep those rivens in storage. That is wasting a few months worth of effort on some hope of striking gold. It is worse than getting ayatan sculptures. For me, that is plain not enough. There need to be some guard against bad rng to allow for value to accumulate. - have more (5) choice than just 1, prevent duplicate (if you have same riven or using that for transmutation, then that shouldn't be the end product), use transmutation to lock in a stat instead of generating a new riven. 

[(PSN)EtrnlDrftrEnigma]

On 2/8/2018 at 1:29 PM, jd2fs said:

Did I ever say it's completely useless? Others have made similar suggestions to make this work. You would rather not listen and just eat up whatever garbage DE tosses your way.

The only 'boon' to this transmute would be that you could take absolute garbage rivens or ones overcycled insanely huge an make a 4resh one outta it. But without the ability to 'lock' what weapon it turns into or have a way to control which weapon the riven becomes such, it ruins alot o4 the bene4it when it could easily land on 1 outta 50~100+ other weapons then say the one you wanted or a speci4ic 5 that you would like. Doesnt help this requires 'transmuters' that require eidolon killing which even as a end game material with arcanes being moved to eidolons, is gonna make it more worth 4arming eidolons 4or the arcanes then the transmuters.

Unless the system lets you pick 1 o4 the 4 rivens and 'lock' it to the speci4ic weapon to re4resh its cycles or include some gimmick to 'up the disposition by +1 or so permanently (basically makes a 1 disposition be stuck to 2 at the minimum regardless i4 its the most used weapon in the game), meaning better stats overall. Then it needs some other methods like either make it 2 rivens to burn on a cycle, a choice o4 3~5 options on which weapon it'll become once cycled or even something as simple as dispensing all the kuva invested on those rivens into your wallet, maybe with a 50%~75% value on the granted kuva vs the total kuva between all 4 rivens that were used, that would make some people just buy rivens to burn them to get alot o kuva and chance to a 'good' riven.

OTHERWISE, without more ways to gain rivens outside o4 sorties which is the 'reliable' way to get a riven (which is still a uncommon daily drop chance and alert rivens and 'quest gotten rivens don't count), we would really need more ways to hunt down rives such as a quest similar to maroo's that gurantees a treasure every week, with instead it would be a riven. Even something as simple as making endless missions have a sizable chance o4 giving a riven mod once you get into wave 30+ or so on these endless missions would be nice since it would even promote players to play long matches then extract every 10 waves.

Point is: The system needs alot more to it when we're using a item that is a chance gain once per day on a 'hard mode mission', requires 4ighting 'hard bosses' to get the trigger aka transmuter, and then need a whooping 4 rivens just to make another riven, which already relies on disposition, basically Riven mods once it gets to this point becomes a casino based gacha system where it is gonna be a insanely bad idea to gamble to gain a pro4it because no casino is gonna let you get away with a massive pro4it.

And don't even get me started about the platinum being used to 'snatch up more rivens' since expecting the system to revolve around player trading too is just a bad idea since people will likely ramp up the prices on rivens to 'sell' even trash because people will be chasing that carrot even i4 they know a vial o4 deadly poison is in it (the stack o4 rng'sus with limited ways to handle it).

 

In the end when someone wants to pull the RNG-sus card in anything in general they need to make the 'worth' o4 it outweigh the bad that can be brought about on the struggle to get to said 'worth'. Such as in 4inal 4antasy 14's way o4 handling cra4ts and gathering, you use a mini'game like system instead o4 relying on a rather 4ixed stat to state i4 you'll get a HQ or not, atleast with 14 you can manipulate the values or just boost the materials granted to make it 4eel better then trying 100+ times to get how much materials you want and them being HQ to boot.

When the balance on the 'RNG' and 'Worth' is not properly set in place, its just a unnecessary thing just like how the transmutation on regular mods and even the 4act you can still trade plat 4or measely amount o4 credits at the moment in the market and really they should just make it that riven mods can drop on the tier 2 and 3 eidolons at maybe a uncommon rate on the 2nd one and basically guaranteed on the 3rd one i4 they make them rather hard to take on instead o4 transmuters i4 they really wanna push the incentive on wanting to 4ight them. I already know based on text in the 4ocus system when you 'dispense brilliant cores 4or 4ocus, there is a '2nd' 4ocus gainable shard which is likely planned to be dropped by the new eidolons [Believe it was called Radiant shard?], With the riven 'transmuters' just be a expansion to the regular transmutation, basically the 'system' i4 le4t unchanged when put in needs to have a better way to pull resources to make use o4 it and not be the equilvency o4 wasting 1000 plat to buy just a 4ew hundred thousand credits.

 

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O4course this is only i4 the transmuters take 4 rivens to merge into 1, shame the 'game's website states 4 rivens into 1, because unless some o4 the youtubers misread, then i would assume DE last minute changed it to being 4 transmuters to make 1 riven.

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Edited February 9, 2018 by (PS4)EtrnlDrftrEnigma

[CopyCatLane]

If you get 4 dragoon or phage rivens which can be useless you can reroll them into Arca or Cornith . Transmute junk with chance to get something good and you can free your slots and dont wait for luck to sell it

[Brorelia]

Let us say I am at 83 out of 90 Rivens and have a 4 rivens for 4 weapons I know I will never use.

In this situation I am only after clearing up slots and I have a chance of getting soemthign good for these trash rivens.

This system is not intended for making 4 trash riven into a godly riven. It is intended to give you a chance of a good riven while clearing up riven slots.

[Ghogiel]

A way of transmuting rivens was needed. Dissolving trash ones for pittiful amounts of endo when you have several 100ks to free up slots is not painless. sure you can roll the dice and get a just as crap one back, but a dice roll is better than just throwing them away to free space.

[(PSN)thowed]

Won't help me any.  I'm maxed at 90 and don't have four trashy enough to throw away.  It's hard enough finding 1 to delete if I get a better weapon from a sortie.  Guess this is what happens when all you do is rivens for months lol.

[Tandem28]

I think this is a step in the right direction. There's too many trash rivens out there just not selling. Now rather than just turning them into endo, there's the option of rolling for a better weapon.

The next step is allowing some form of stat-lock on rivens. Then we'll be in a good spot where they're concerned.

Not much more needs to be said about this imo.

[-Trey-]

4 to 1 is steep

4 of same type guaranteeing that type is silly too. People will want shotgun rivens most of all, if you fuse 4 shotgun rivens almost always they will all be rolled already and worth very nice amount of endo. So often 10k~ endo, or way more if you maxed them to get 1 random shotgun riven that you gonna roll 9 times later. I don't see myself using it, unless im fusing terrible rifle/melee/pistol rivens hoping ill end up with a shotgun one.

[jd2fs]

transmutation should not be the end reward for the hunt. How many of these are actually needed? I got 4 today just doing it casually with pug. I get probably 5 - 8 trash rivens a month. Of the same type probably 2 - 3 at the most. So by the end of a few week I'm going to have enough to a year worth of trash rivens. So other than focus point, the hunt is pointless.

[zenstrata]

the riven transmute being completely random is crap and not worth doing ever.

If we could actually make a choice here instead of getting something completely random, then sure, trading 4 rivens for 1 that you can choose something on might be worth it.

But random ?  no.  Never.  I'll turn them into endo before I transmute for totally random.  This is a bad item imho.

Especially as a reward for a rather lengthy and difficult fight.  If we are going this far, defeating 3 of these big guys, and then have a chance for the transmuters to drop, and there is absolutely zero choice over what you get for your transmute.  Then there is basically zero value there. 

As a random ability, the transmute of 4 to 1 random should just be available to everyone all the time.  And the drop should actually do something cool, like let you choose something, instead of being completely random.. . (not a fan of totally random).

Edited February 14, 2018 by zenstrata