Chroma Changes

[(PSN)Karelxss]

With the upcoming changes to chroma it talks about nerfing his damage by not making mods stack multiplicatively but will his armor stacking have the same nerf or are they separate?

[DarkDrakeDrakus]

Should be the same. The nerfy just makes the boost apply to base damage and not the modded damage. So it's a sleight chance. Armour should remain the same.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

should stay like it is now, the description says armor multiplier not bonus armor

[Alexter]

Don't forget Vex Armor will become an aura, which mean all your mate in range (ability range or affinity range ?) will benefit of it

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

Look at the QA at the bottom of the first Dev post regarding these Warframe changes - it mentions both damage and armor.

Thus it is quite fair to assume that both Scorn and Fury will have their calculation method changed, and thus both his damage and his survivability will be nerfed.

The deafening silence from DE regarding if Scorn is changed, and if they have 100% considered the implications for his survivability is really speaking volumes.

Edited February 8, 2018 by (PS4)Rasmus_ep88
Format

[JohnKable]

50 minutes ago, Alexter said:

Don't forget Vex Armor will become an aura, which mean all your mate in range (ability range or affinity range ?) will benefit of it

18m range of the ability.

The damage will for sure be applied on base damage, as for the armor we have yet to discover it, but will know very soon. if its applied to base armor  it will seriously hurt its survivability but will still have a great damage reduction, just wont be able to facetank multiple lvl 150 bombards anymore

 

[Autongnosis]

il y a 12 minutes, JohnKable a dit :

18m range of the ability.

The damage will for sure be applied on base damage, as for the armor we have yet to discover it, but will know very soon. if its applied to base armor  it will seriously hurt its survivability but will still have a great damage reduction, just wont be able to facetank multiple lvl 150 bombards anymore

 

The FAQ sections specifically states the change affects damage and armour calculations. 

Q: What is the new formula for damage and armor calculation?
A: Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

If that's the case, it won't have great survivability. He will have less than 1/3rd of the EHP of two of the other tanks (Nekros, Trinity) and comparable EHP with Nidus, with the glaring difference that all of those use DR (nekros also uses armour) for mitigation instead of purely armour AND are proc immune and thus against puncture damage and slash damage Chroma will be royally #*($%%@ even worse than now while they get mostly ignore that. 

On top of that, all of those other guys get to have constant HP regen and/or solid CC while Chroma gets none of that. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Autongnosis

[JohnKable]

20 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

The FAQ sections specifically states the change affects damage and armour calculations. 

Q: What is the new formula for damage and armor calculation?
A: Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

If that's the case, it won't have great survivability. He will have less than 1/3rd of the EHP of two of the other tanks (Nekros, Trinity) and comparable EHP with Nidus, with the glaring difference that all of those use DR (nekros also uses armour) for mitigation instead of purely armour AND are proc immund and thus against puncture damage and slash damage Chroma will be royally #*($%%@ even worse than now. 

On top of that, all of those other guys get to have constant HP regen and/or solid CC while Chroma gets none of that. 

 i missed the faq completely. maybe it will have a greater buff to slightly make up for that, but if doesnt take into account steel fiber i cant figure out how greater the buff should be to achieve an even comparable DR.
Maybe building it around quick thinking for the extra DR and maybe double arcane grace can result in a decent overall result, taking into account he can also buff allies and will still have a good damage boost to kill enemy faster i dont see him as complete trash.
Also vex armor will be recastable before it expires and maybe they will just remove the cap of the buffs so in long runs he will still keep stacking armor and damage indefinitely so he will still be able to survive forever in endless missions.

Otherwise the real tank can actually become nekros. has a reliable armor and health supply, can further reduce the damage with he shadows or can build for terror having a decent cc ability aswell. Trinity never shines as a tank because always struggles at high levels and if you miss the timing of 1 cast when enemies start hitting energy you are basically dead

Edited February 8, 2018 by JohnKable

[Autongnosis]

il y a 32 minutes, JohnKable a dit :

1) i missed the faq completely. maybe it will have a greater buff to slightly make up for that, but if doesnt take into account steel fiber i cant figure out how greater the buff should be to achieve an even comparable DR.
2) Maybe building it around quick thinking for the extra DR and maybe double arcane grace can result in a decent overall result, taking into account he can also buff allies and will still have a good damage boost to kill enemy faster i dont see him as complete trash.
3) Also vex armor will be recastable before it expires and maybe they will just remove the cap of the buffs so in long runs he will still keep stacking armor and damage indefinitely so he will still be able to survive forever in endless missions.

4) Otherwise the real tank can actually become nekros. has a reliable armor and health supply, can further reduce the damage with he shadows or can build for terror having a decent cc ability aswell. Trinity never shines as a tank because always struggles at high levels and if you miss the timing of 1 cast when enemies start hitting energy you are basically dead

I broke it down into points

1) double if you ran with SF alone, about 6 times as high if you ran an Ice Ward Chroma with SF. That's how much the change impacts his armour calculations. 

2) most endurance runners i see already build QT into their setups because otherwise there are too many instances where Chroma can die horribly at a moment's notice

3) i think that would be unbalanced as F*** although it does sound cool. The problem is that you'd have to implement a pretty steep logarithmic scale for it not to F*** with balance way more than anything else. 

4) Nekros already is the second-best tank in the game, he gets 90 to 99% DR (depending if there are healers in the game) and also arctic eximi to slow enemies and provide a mobile globe, on top of 1350 armour through Health Conversion and an amazing sinergy with Arcane Pulse. Trinity works if you have the right build, i use a combo of Abating Link+Vampire Leech that gives basically every skill a way to cycle back my EHP (them being energy, life or over/shields) that can survive pretty much anything thrown her way up to pretty ludicrous levels (200+). Though it is definitely spammy and a bit harder to manage than Nekros. 

Then again Rhino still exists in his current form and HE is the king tank currently. Every other tank wishes he could be like Rhino

[saradonin]

58 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

18m range of the ability.

That isn't much and will make building him a bit tricky, as we'll no longer be able to ignore range on him. Vex Armor damage part will most likely get nerfed twice: 1) actual fix, 2) either strength or duration will have to take a hit to make room for a bit wider buff area.

Edited February 8, 2018 by saradonin

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

1 hour ago, saradonin said:

That isn't much and will make building him a bit tricky, as we'll no longer be able to ignore range on him. Vex Armor damage part will most likely get nerfed twice: 1) actual fix, 2) either strength or duration will have to take a hit to make room for a bit wider buff area.

Yea, no matter what you do you will be subpar (range = low buff and strength = low range)

[JohnKable]

2 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

I broke it down into points

1) double if you ran with SF alone, about 6 times as high if you ran an Ice Ward Chroma with SF. That's how much the change impacts his armour calculations. 

2) most endurance runners i see already build QT into their setups because otherwise there are too many instances where Chroma can die horribly at a moment's notice

3) i think that would be unbalanced as F*** although it does sound cool. The problem is that you'd have to implement a pretty steep logarithmic scale for it not to F*** with balance way more than anything else. 

4) Nekros already is the second-best tank in the game, he gets 90 to 99% DR (depending if there are healers in the game) and also arctic eximi to slow enemies and provide a mobile globe, on top of 1350 armour through Health Conversion and an amazing sinergy with Arcane Pulse. Trinity works if you have the right build, i use a combo of Abating Link+Vampire Leech that gives basically every skill a way to cycle back my EHP (them being energy, life or over/shields) that can survive pretty much anything thrown her way up to pretty ludicrous levels (200+). Though it is definitely spammy and a bit harder to manage than Nekros. 

Then again Rhino still exists in his current form and HE is the king tank currently. Every other tank wishes he could be like Rhino

i think between trinity and Nekros i pick up nekros because, as you say, its less spammy and also can build around his whole kit still having great survivability.
trinity can just spam some EV with short range if built for being a proper tank.
Rhino is the real deal i agree, but as long stomp is in his kit, thats too good to go tank when you can permastun the whole map.
i mean, with some combos alot of frames can go pretty tanky. But if you weight their usefullness in team usually its becomes really lacking. chroma as a tank was also a good DPS.
Probably the best tankyness i could ever get was with wukong, but it was built only around that so never actually played it, same goes for valkyr.

Now chroma will be a nowhere near good as now tank, and not even close DPS. hope they really pump up his vex armor stats because it will become real trash, even for hardcore chroma players, if they dont adjust that. Its not even any good for farming credits since index is a thing...

[JohnKable]

2 hours ago, saradonin said:

That isn't much and will make building him a bit tricky, as we'll no longer be able to ignore range on him. Vex Armor damage part will most likely get nerfed twice: 1) actual fix, 2) either strength or duration will have to take a hit to make room for a bit wider buff area.

you wont need narrow minded anymore. since now it is recastable to keep the buffs before it expires you can have a 30 secs vex armor without sacrificing range or anything else.
before you went for max duration to maximize each single cast, thats not a thing anymore because they said you can recast it before expires and keep the current buffs

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

1 hour ago, JohnKable said:

you wont need narrow minded anymore. since now it is recastable to keep the buffs before it expires you can have a 30 secs vex armor without sacrificing range or anything else.
before you went for max duration to maximize each single cast, thats not a thing anymore because they said you can recast it before expires and keep the current buffs

True, a valid point. 

Now need to figure out if the open mind slot should be replaced with efficiency, range or something else

[Zeclem]

you can also now recast his vex armor to keep the buff up. so its not as big of a deal. hell, i personally think he'll be better for general gameplay. those team buffs are quite powerful.

edit:i got space ninja'd.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Zeclem

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you can also now recast his vex armor to keep the buff up. so its not as big of a deal. hell, i personally think he'll be better for general gameplay. those team buffs are quite powerful.

edit:i got space ninja'd.

He might be more team oriented now, but at what cost to his survivability?

 

[Zeclem]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Rasmus_ep88 said:

He might be more team oriented now, but at what cost to his survivability?

 

little to no cost. %200+ armor buff for a frame that already has very high base armor rating is one very tanky frame.

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

12 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

little to no cost. %200+ armor buff for a frame that already has very high base armor rating is one very tanky frame.

Compared to his present state it is a very big nerf

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Its a nerf to solo chromas only really and tbh i dunno if people are really thinking about how good an armor + damage boost would be for the whole team. + everlasting ward he'll be strong for team play imo. This honestly gives me a reason to use him now more than before i'll take a power hit to toss on stretch for it.

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

If only the base range of elemental ward would be increased to 18 m as well

[Zeclem]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Rasmus_ep88 said:

Compared to his present state it is a very big nerf

yeah enemies were hitting you for 1. now they will hit 2. big nerf, totally unplayable.

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

6 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

yeah enemies were hitting you for 1. now they will hit 2. big nerf, totally unplayable.

We shall see when the update is released

[IceColdHawk]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Zeclem:

yeah enemies were hitting you for 1. now they will hit 2. big nerf, totally unplayable.

Oh, care to show your maths to back this claim up?

[Zeclem]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

Oh, care to show your maths to back this claim up?

it was obvious sarcasm. the fact is he has high base armor and the buff has high multipliers. hes gonna be tanky enough.

[IceColdHawk]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Zeclem:

it was obvious sarcasm. the fact is he has high base armor and the buff has high multipliers. hes gonna be tanky enough.

This depends on if scorn is ACTUALLY affected since they have only said "Vex Armor", which usually contains Scorn & Fury. Regardless, it's nonsense to be based on base damage and armor instead of being an actual multiplier.

Edited February 8, 2018 by IceColdHawk