Update 22.12.0: Warframe Changes Feedback Megathread

[[DE]Danielle]

Warframe Changes Feedback Megathread!

This thread will house all of your feedback on the Warframe changes Update 22.12.0 brought! We believe these changes make our wide Warframe roster more diverse and fun to play. We will be listening to your responses, so please keep feedback respectful and constructive. 

If you would like to read the full details on these changes, please visit the update thread: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/918482-shrine-of-the-eidolon-update-22120/\ 

GENERAL:

Spoiler

-When interacting with Nullifiers, power-created avatars (Atlas’ Rumblers, Nekros’ Shadows, etc) will have their Health drained, instead of instantly disappearing.
-Added a charge circle for Ember’s Fireball, Zephyr’s Tail Wind, and Hydroid’s Barrage and Tentacle Swarm

ASH

Spoiler

 

Bladestorm 
- Upon activating Bladestorm, Ash’s clones will do the stabbing, leaving the player free to act. Ash can choose to join in the execution by using Teleport on a marked enemy.
-  Reduced energy cost of Bladestorm's Marks. 12 Energy / Mark when Visible, 6 Energy / Mark when invisible. 

As one of three “stealth” frames that offer invisibility, Ash serves as a more offensive alternative to Ivara and Loki. In practice, his Bladestorm ultimate falls short of those expectations - although the ability is sufficiently lethal, players would be locked into cutscenes as Ash and his clones finished the job on marked targets. 

Spoiler

 

 

With the above changes, the Ash player can continue moving and shooting after activating Bladestorm, while his clones do the dirty work! Plus, as an added feature, if a player wants to take advantage of the invincibility offered by the cutscenes (or just thinks they look cool), they can use Teleport on a marked target after activating Bladestorm to join in on the stabbing fun.

 

 

 

ATLAS

Spoiler

 

Rubble (new mechanic)
 - Comes from killing petrified enemies. Atlas collects rubble to restore his health, or temporarily increase armor if already at max health. Rubble has a singular decay. Picking up more rubble delays the decay for a brief time.

Landslide
 - Killing petrified enemies with Landslide generates bonus rubble. We have also increased the contact radius at max rank from 1.5m to 2m.

Petrify
 - Can use Petrify on Tectonics’ bulwarks to increase rolling velocity and damage. Can also be cast on Rumblers to heal them for a % of max health.
-Petrify is now a single cast instead of a channel ability, instantly Petrifying enemies in front of you regardless of level! https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/bonybrokenappaloosa.

-Ore Gaze Augment is now 25% effective at max rank. 
- Petrified enemies take increased damage from all sources.

Rumblers 
- While casting, creates an AoE around Atlas that will petrify any enemy that comes close.
- Rumblers create rubble when they expire, based on how much health they had

Released in late 2015, Atlas fills the role of a beefy brawler Warframe. While his first ability Landslide really packs a punch, the rest of his kit falls short in comparison to other frames. We saw this reflected in Atlas’ usage stats, where he was the generally the least-used frame that didn’t have a Prime variant.

Spoiler

 

Similar to other recent reworks, we aim to give Atlas more synergy between the abilities at his disposal. Petrify is now a versatile ability that does not limit the casting of other abilities, and can be used to buff bulwarks and heal Rumblers. Introducing the Rubble mechanic improves Atlas’ survivability, while rewarding players for taking advantage of the frame’s synergies. The instant AoE Petrify upon casting his Rumblers ultimate also helps protect players during the cast animation.

 

2

BANSHEE

Spoiler

 

Resonating Quake (Augment) 
- Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward.

Banshee’s abilities fill both offense and support roles, offering damage boosting, crowd control, and area of effect capabilities. But for many, her gameplay has become centralized around an augment for her Sound Quake, Resonating Quake. Since sound waves can hit through walls, the humongous area of effect can prevent enemies from getting anywhere near the objective, while the casting player is left with nothing to do but wait. From our own public play experiences, Resonating Quake is what we as creators of Warframe find to be the most unfun ability- “I want to enjoy this horde shooter, but where are the hordes?”

Instead of creating a less effective version of the same augment, Resonating Quake will now offer an alternative playstyle, providing a stationary Quake that does not restrict player movement. Effective usage will now require frequent casting and strategic placement, encouraging a more active playstyle.

 

 

 

 

CHROMA

Spoiler

 

Spectral Scream 
- Removed walk speed and jump restrictions. You can now freely move while this is active! 
- Can now cast other abilities while using Spectral Scream.
- Damage output is now also affected by the Vex Armor's Fury bonus! 

Spoiler

 

Vex Armor 
- Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities. Overshields are now considered for Vex Armor. Chroma's Vex Armor remains one of the top performing damage-multipliers in the game - and it's now an aura! Instead of just being focused on Chroma, it can now benefit allies in range.
- Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.

The only change that comes with a full history lesson! https://forums.warframe.com/topic/788574-octavia’s-anthem-hotfix-2023/
Back in April 2017, we said this:

“Chroma Changes:
    Fixed an issue where Chroma would deal no damage with Vex Armor active. While this may sound like a simple fix, if you're a Chroma user please read on!
    Solving Vex Armor actually takes us back to Chroma's beginning. On original power creation, we used some less-than-ideal calculation methods to create Scorn and Fury's effects. If you are an avid Chroma user, you probably know the power maximizing this ability brings. At some point in Chroma's future we will need to revisit and use ideal methods for his Abilities; we will inform you well in advance when Chroma is under review.”

Chroma is a complex frame that players usually acquire further on in their Tenno journey. As referenced above, much of that complexity stems from some questionable back-end calculations, which caused Vex Armor to calculate damage boosts AFTER upgrades instead of before. Although the UI may indicate that damage/armor is buffed by a few hundred percent, the actual buff amounts would be much higher. Furthermore, compound elements would effectively be multiplied twice for Fury’s damage boosting, leading to some ludicrous results.

Back in April 2017, extreme damage boosting was not really a problem, so we left the ability as is. However, the Plains of Eidolon update marked a shift in community mindset by introducing Teralysts - featuring multiple large health pools on each weakpoint, damage boosting abilities became an important part of efficient hunting teams. While other damage boosting options require more team coordination, a single self-damaging Chroma could bypass the weakpoint damaging portion of the fight in an instant. At its simplest, we do not want our Eidolons one-shotted. 

Chroma’s usage was already somewhat narrow, so we want him to remain a competitive option for Teralyst damage boosting, while also improving other parts of his kit. Although the magnitude of his boost will be lowered, it will still be one of the strongest boosting abilities in the game, and both damage/armor increases will now apply to all teammates in a nearby radius. Furthermore, Spectral Scream without movement restrictions allows players to be the aimgliding, fire-breathing dragon they’ve always dreamed of! We will continue to observe how these changes affect Chroma (and the Teralyst hunting squads) in the coming weeks, and consider further tweaks if needed. 

 

EMBER

Spoiler

 

Fireball 
- Can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.

Fire Blast 
- Will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it (for allies).

World On Fire 
- 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half. 

Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense. Her ultimate, World on Fire, is unmatched in terms of widespread lethality - while many Warframes specialize in certain mission types, Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”. By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt. These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range.

World on Fire will continue working similarly to how it does now, but with changing effects over time. The gradually increasing energy cost should encourage most players to toggle the ability when needed, instead of the current “set and forget” approach. Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies.  World on Fire is still very capable of clearing rooms and sweeping hallways, but should now be applied more deliberately!

 

GARA

Spoiler

 

Mass Vitrify
- Wall health scales based on health and shields of the enemies it glasses over. Minimum value per target is affected by Strength and Armor, meaning weaker enemies still contribute something worthwhile.
- Health gained by Mass Vitrify shown in a UI display.

Our latest Warframe Gara is a versatile frame on the cutting glass edge, with a tool for most situations. After recent changes to her Mass Vitrify, the ability is serviceable against most of the star chart, but doesn’t hold up well to higher level content. 

While this is tough to showcase in a gif, in practice the wall has gotten stronger because it has covered many enemies in this cast! 

Spoiler

 

 

To help the ability scale better, the health of Mass Vitrify’s wall will increase based on the health and shields of the enemies who are “glassed” by the ability’s cast. This added incentive for letting enemies get close to the objective should add an interesting risk/reward element to Gara’s gameplay.

 

HYDROID

Spoiler

Undertow/Tidal Surge
- Enemies are now properly kept within Hydroid's watery clutches when moving with Undertow.

MIRAGE

Spoiler

- Mirage's Eclipse Duration has been buffed and now matches Hall of Mirrors at Max Rank (so you can better coordinate the upkeep).

MAG

Spoiler

 

- Increased base energy pool (125 for Mag, 175 for Mag Prime).

Polarize 
- Shards created by Polarize now scale based on power strength, as well as the percentage of damage done to that specific enemy.
- Augment for Polarize reworked - now reads: "Weapons hit by Polarize are jammed for 4 seconds. Robotic enemies hit by Polarize are disabled for 4 seconds."

Crush
 - Each stage of crush emits a shield heal from Mag. Restores shields to nearby allies per damage instance, based on the number of enemies affected.
- Crush animations slightly sped up.

Mag has seen many changes over Warframe’s history - her major rework in 2016 reinforced her role as a fragile crowd control caster, widening her usability across all factions. Although she performs well in the right hands, some of the synergies introduced in that rework did not have quite the impact we wanted. Plus as a starter frame, we want new players to feel like choosing Mag is a more viable option. 

Increasing the damage of shards created by Polarize should give Mag more kill power. Additional shield restore on Crush also offers a way to passively support your team while clearing crowded rooms!

 

RHINO

Spoiler

- Reduced the amount of impulse caused by the Iron Shrapnel Augment to avoid sending enemies into orbit. 

VOLT

Spoiler

 

Discharge
 - Removed the damage cap. Increased base damage output from 750 to 1200. Damage and stun duration are halved for enemies further away from Volt (affected by Mods).

Removing Discharge’s damage cap has been a common request since Volt’s rework in early 2016. We tried testing this version of the ability internally, and decided it was too much  - stunning all enemies for 20+ seconds, through walls and inside spawn closets, had a seriously disruptive effect on gameplay. (add link to https://gfycat.com/gifs/illiteratebiodegradableboaconstrictor on the text “seriously disruptive effects on gameplay”) However, we understand why this is a common request, and have done our best to make it work. 

 Lightning strikes most fierce at the center. To accompany the damage cap removal, Discharge is now less effective at medium to long range, doing less damage and stunning for less time. The damage reduction is mostly offset by an increased base damage on the ability, but the reduced stun at long range should keep mission flow in check.

 

ZEPHYR

Spoiler

 

Tail Wind
 - Combined into a single ability with Dive Bomb. Can be charge cast on the ground, launching Zephyr into the air where she then hovers. In the air, Tail Wind still flies in whatever direction you’re looking, and Dive Bomb activates if cast while looking straight down.
- Tail Wind now costs half as much energy when cast in the air, free if cast while hovering.
- Tail Wind does more damage.
- Changed Dive Bomb augment into a Tail Wind augment - now reads: “Each enemy hit increases Tail Wind damage by 25%. Damage resets upon landing.”
- Dive Bomb can now fire on slight angles, as long as you’re looking mostly down.

Turbulence
- Turbulence now has a new unique animation and sound! 

Air Burst 
- New ability replacing Dive Bomb. A projectile that causes an AoE burst on contact, ragdolling enemies. Can be fired into Tornadoes to make them bigger.
*Please note that Air Burst may be tweaked more after feedback.

Tornado 
- Now spawn where player is aiming and can be steered. The closest tornado will move to your aimpoint, meaning you can move them around. Tornado damage type now determined by largest amount of elemental damage absorbed, instead of last type absorbed. Tornadoes do a better job of keeping enemies captured, and shooting Tornadoes will do damage to enemies trapped inside. You can also now recast Tornado, similar to Hydroid’s Tentacle Swarm. 
- Changed Tornado's default damage type from Magnetic to Physical. 
- Clarification: holding aim (default RMB) is required to steer Tornadoes.

Zephyr, the warrior of the skies, has seen little change since being introduced in early 2014. Four years later, her ability kit is showing its age - Parkour 2.0 improved mobility across all Warframes, making her reduced gravity and Tail Wind less useful by comparison. Turbulence is consistently useful, but all other abilities leave something to be desired.

To give Zephyr new wind beneath her wings, her Tail Wind and Dive Bomb will now be the same ability, cast depending on which direction the player is looking. This makes room for her new ability Air Burst, which gives Zephyr new ways to rain death from the skies. We do not have a gif ready for this yet. Combined with Tornado tweaks intended to make the ability more consistent and useful, Zephyr’s more well-rounded kit should help reassert her air superiority. 

 

6

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by [DE]Danielle
Added spoilers to save your scrolling finger

[PsiWarp]

First thing first: Thank you DE for bringing us quality content time and again. You hardworking folks deserve much pats on the back for your dedication to your crafts and masterpiece of a game!

I will update this post with my feedback as I plow through the changes perform testing in public matchmaking and the Simulacrum. There's so much to go through, everything feels familiar yet fresh. Let's begin!

Atlas (updated 22.12.3)

• Rubble
  • Atlas has always had difficulty staying alive against high level enemies without using Landslide's invulnerability period or hiding behind Tectonics. Rubble providing both health restoration and bonus armor helps address this issue, and its current implementation encourages active melee combat that fits his brawler theme.
  • The new UI really "solidifies" this new addition as core to Atlas' kit. Nicely done!
  • Hard to See: Rubble's pickup model can be difficult to spot when moving about. Even though it is a shiny rock, it can often blend with textures on the ground.
    • After some fashionframing, I realized Rubble adopt Atlas' energy colors! Some darker colors tend make Rubble less glowy than lighter colors, so this was why it was hard to see for me (I used brown energy).
  • Not Vacuum-able: being unable to use Sentinel Vacuum to rapidly collect Rubble (nor Atlas' own innate tiny vacuum radius) leads to the need for backtracking for uncollected Rubble. I understand why this is the case even though it feels inconvenient, since Rubble is designed to provide twofold benefits and the player may want to choose between healing or gaining armor (or leaving available Rubble as backup for future encounters), which he/she cannot really do if Rubble is quickly gathered by Vacuum. I would prefer for Vacuum to collect Rubble, however.
  • Augments Inconsistency: Landslide's Path of Statues also petrifies enemies, but those enemies would not drop any Rubble when killed. Rumblers' Titanic Rumbler takes away 1 Rumbler in exchange for its effects, but only drops a Rubble that provides the health or armor points of a single Rumbler, rather than the combined sum of 2 Rumblers; this can be seen as an additional downside, and this augment is already considered unattractive due to its unremarkable effects (Rumbler's ground slam taunt is not effective, and the Rumbler moves more slowly).
    • Addressed in Hotfix 22.12.3, Path of Statues petrified enemies now drop Rubble, awesome!
  • Floating Rubble: not a big problem but it is odd-looking.
  • Armor Decays Too Fast: 10 armor points drained per second feels a tad too quick. Even more so when facing Nullifiers and the like. Since Petrify and Rumblers are both energy-costly powers, it becomes difficult to maintain Rubble's armor benefit without specializing heavily into Ability Efficiency.
    • Address in Hotfix 22.12.3, decay rate is now halved to 5 armor per second. Thanks!
• Landslide
  • All of the changes are rather nice on an already strong ability. Since Landslide is one of the more dependable abilities made for killing high level enemies, I can always count on it to provide its bonus Rubble.
• Tectonics
  • Leaves no Rubble: With the new Rubble mechanic, I assumed Bulwarks would drop Rubble when destroyed by enemies or when the boulder exploded. Could this feature be added? If not for the regular Bulwark, then perhaps the Petrified Bulwark?
  • Petrified Bulwark's buff to boulder rolling velocity (and extra distance) feels great. One of my gripes with Tectonics was that the boulder traveled too slowly and too short a distance.
  • However, there are still several problems with the boulder that haven't been addressed:
    • Low damage: Still deals relatively low damage even though it is increased by the Petrified Bulwark and against Petrified enemies.
    • Brittle: Boulder will often blow up prematurely by colliding into terrain, before it has a chance to go where Atlas pointed toward. This is most apparent when the Bulwark is facing the opposite direction of where Atlas recasts 2, so the boulder has to do a U-turn- often blowing itself up by smashing into walls and objects.
    • Hit and miss: Boulder's enemy collision radius is too small. It requires a lot of precision for the boulder to actually pick up enemies along its path and carry them away.
  • Since Tectonic Fracture bulwarks cannot turn into boulders, they cannot take advantage of being Petrified Bulwarks. Perhaps allow Petrify to also enhance Bulwarks' durability (the silver stone looks awesome and feels like the wall is reinforced with metal), so this augment can still take advantage of this synergy?
  • More feedback for the boulder in this thread here:

• Petrify
  • Snapshot Petrify with instant freezing is miles ahead of the previous iteration. Old Petrify breaks the flow of his melee rampage and hindered his momentum. Now Atlas is much more viable for crowd control and can go straight back to his punching. It just feels more fluid!
  • Cone Orientation Issue: It seems the 60 degrees cone still comes from Atlas' eyes. There are times when I try to cast Petrify toward my aiming reticle, but Atlas is in the middle of an animation (e.g. rolling) so it somehow misses the enemies right in front of me (Atlas' face is in another direction at that moment). It would be nice if it will always center the cone toward the aiming reticle, so players don't end up wasting energy casting Petrify that just won't hit where they look.
  • Very Energy Hungry: being one of the primary ways to earn Rubble, Petrify at 75 energy per cast (often more due to the cone issue above) is much too costly to maintain.
• Rumblers
  • The general change to summoned units really helps Rumblers stay relevant against Nullifiers and other related enemies. This was a major problem when facing Corpus and Corrupted since Rumblers essentially became wasteful to cast.
  • I really like the instant Petrify area added to Rumblers' creation. It and the Rubble drops encourage using the detonation function more often.
  • Less Bang for Your Buck: However, Rumblers' detonation explosion still feels unremarkable. The damage falls off quickly and diminishes over distance, and does not proc any Status Effect or stagger or ragdoll enemies away to cover for that damage falloff. Adding an additional effect or improving the explosion damage or both would really solidify this feature as a viable means to use Rumblers as walking time bombs.

Edited February 14, 2018 by PsiWarp
fixed formatting

[Vox-Lunaris]

wohoooo, again, just one thing to say here

Thanx for the hard work guys :)

[Sumarbrandr]

Look, most changes are awesome and I love it. 

But "Volt is not CC".

Guess what he's doing. I just tested max strenght discharge against both armor and flesh (corpus tech) and the damage was inexistent against armor and laughable for max strenght against Corpus. Volt still does nothing but CC and unfortunately, as much as an alternative to gunplay as Atlas is a healer. Volt needs more changes if he's not supposed to be CC and should be dealing damage instead. 

And not even CC is flying that high. The duration is very short so even people that liked to use him as CC (I'm not one of them, I always wanted him to be the alternative to gunplay that Nidus and now Atlas are: better alternatives to gunplay than Volt ever was) can use him anymore. The changes sounds like a placebo that doesn't solve anything and actually worsening the situation. ): 

While at it, make Speed affect parkour and have higher duration, make shock as damage oriented as Discharge is supposed to be so we can get synergy but not codependence. 

Or do a full damage and alternative to gunplay oriented rework because tweaks aren't cutting it. 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by LastRide

[Ninja]

Thank you!
Wohooo!

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

Just here to say, again, that the Mag changes aren't enough.

EDIT: Also id like to argue that Mag isn't a CC Frame. Even if she was, the only change here that addresses that is her Polarize augment. She's more of a damage/debuff Frame.

EDIT2: Link is to some Ideas I pulled together for Mag that got mixed into the huge thread. Just for clarification.

Edited February 10, 2018 by (XB1)NeutralSilence
Added more. Added more to more.

[Cephara]

Thank you so much for giving Zephyr's moveset a breath of fresh air.

[Gabbynaru]

So, after playing one mission with her, I can say, Zephyr already feels really fun. Tornadoes everywhere!

That said, can we please get a new passive for her? She's incredibly awkward to move around with, and even worse for spy missions (I know, she's not supposed to be a spy frame, but, that's how I level my stuff up). Can it be changed? If not a new one, at least please have it activate only after using tailwind, that would make tailwind still work as intended without making Zephyr be really annoying to run around with.

Thank you for the wonderful work!

[throwaway987654321]

After testing, I can confirm Ember is now going to be shelved. The only ability that attracted people to her now has no usefulness.

6 energy per second for a SEVEN METER radius is insane. The double damage doesn't do anything noticeable because, as we all know, scaling is broken; doubling the original WOF's range would have taken her from a "good against under level 30 enemies" frame to a "good against under level 40 frames", but now her range is so pitiful and the energy drain so all-consuming that she struggles to take on anything under 20/25 now, as she has to run straight into the enemies' faces for her 4 to register damage.

DE, please bring back the old WOF!

I tried to insert 2 images of WOF failing to touch enemies mere feet away, but it seems the forum doesn't like Imgur links  (fixed by good samaritan)

Edited February 10, 2018 by Dawson1917
added desperate plea + image

[Versa]

After a bit more testing of Zephyr to confirm with a more expansive range of stats, I have come to the same conclusion as I had the first time, these changes do not bring enough impact and fix her existing problems while taking away much of the useful, controllable and fun mobility. Some may look at the new tailwind and see differently, but for me I see something that isnt truly mobility, its just a fast strait line. The mobility Zephyr had before the changes allowed you to effect all aspects of your position with more control. Namely the ability to easily choose how you move with tailwind. I will elaborate.

With the previous iteration of Tailwind, there were 2 components, the regular air dash that everyone knows the ability by, and the grounded vertical launch. Both effects were triggered instantly. No charge, no waiting until you release the key to activate, no locking you in place, just instant, reactive mobility. Mobility like this only works when it reacts as fast as you can to allow you to say, dodge or quickly move up to a higher floor. The current tailwind has both the small delay from waiting to determine of you are holding, as well as the charge in the case of this new launch. Neither effect is good and will severely impact timing the effects or in the case of the charge, is actually anti-mobility by fixing you in place.

The new Tailwind has several changes, first is that the basic physics of the air dash are completely different and, in my opinion, worse for any build not very focused on duration. The effect is so much focused on duration, that it basically does nothing at base up to about 130% duration, where previously it could get distance at least slightly useful in larger maps. The problem here lies in how duration effects both airspeed and how long you keep dashing at that speed, so duration has an exponential effect on the ability. In many cases, that makes the two extremes of duration each fairly unusable in alot of circumstances. Overall, there are a few changes to this that could actually fix it. First, if it must stay as an animation locked dash that keeps you for the full duration of the speed, the acceleration curve needs leveled out a bit so that base speed and distance is actually usable. The high extreme needs a way to interrupt the animation so you can stop from getting pinned to walls or overshooting a target, allowing the animation to be interruptible in the middle would fix some of the concerns here. The current tailwind also has this obnoxious effect of both having some kind of air resistance after the cast that slows you down and immediately stopping you on contact with the ground after the cast. Both keep you from being able to preserve momentum to keep moving. The air resistance effect after casting the air dash part of tailwind needs to have some kind of override like the old doublejump superspeed or, better it could have no air resistance effect as using bullet jump mid air immediately resets your momentum to match the preset animation.  The complete stop of all momentim on touching the ground also needs to go, Sliding after a tailwind to keep speed should be a thing. Repeated casts of tailwind should also allow building up speed and momentum so that you can do individual smaller casts for halls, and multiple casts for places like the plains.

Regardless, the animation locked dash is probably the worse of the two options. What I personally thing would work better and be more controllable is the following. Tailwind needs to be a very short animation that gives you an impulse that quickly accelerates you to a greater speed, has no inherent air resistance effect added, and resets bulletjump. Just one burst that brings you up to speed and flings you in that direction. Repeated casts need to be able to stack up more speed and momentum, perhaps with some amount of diminishing returns to prevent being uncontrollable, but still able to build to very high speed and controlling it with aimglide and casting the dash in different directions to basically fly and change directions. The extra bullet jump you are given allows you to reset your speed and able to stop exactly where you want due to the fixed animation of bulletjump instantly resetting all your momentum. This ties both a very fast movement part, with the ability to have better control both when you need to go faster on larger rooms, and the ability to pick shorter distances to dash and then stop on command. Overall, this change gives Zephyr the most controllable and responsive mobility while also tying in all of the parkour features in to make the full use of her mobility.

In regards to the other portions of Tailwind, this is where most of the other complaints come from. The charge needs to change. What exactly needs to happen is that the old instant takeoff from the ground needs to be back. The old impulse physics that it had before work fine as they do not lock your animation in a substantial way. If, and only if you hold the key for tailwind while rising, and by this I mean that you have already started lifting off the ground from pressing in the key, then it will select to fix your motion at the top of the jump after detecting the key being held for about 1-1.5 seconds. This gives the choice to players for a quick jump that doesn't stop their motion if they don't want, or the floating turret feature that you added. THIS is actually a choice instead of what occurred in the actual changes in simply removing an already effective feature of the ability and adding two downsides to it.

The change to integrating divebomb is entirely fine, but perhaps it could have some adjustment option to change how sensitive it is to when you are looking down. It would be nice, but not required for the function of it.

In regards to Zephyrs other changes and improvements to be made, I have a few. First, the projectile speed of the new Airburst needs to be faster than bows, otherwise the ability just takes too long for any actual effect, and considering its ONLY use is CC, it needs to at least be quick and responsive like the rest of her kit needs to be. How fast exactly I cant say but It should be among the faster projectiles in the game probably at close to 75-100m/s as if you are 50m+ in the air, you need all your effects to trigger in less than a second or so or they will be entirely outclassed by most other effects in the game. Having the Airburst also cause the ragdoll crumple and pin them to the floor by having the ragdoll pressing all targets directly down instead of throwing around could also help with follow up. Overall, the ability needs some work as it has neither the impact, nor the speed to justify that energy cost or even its use in general.

The animation change to zephyrs Turbulence also needs reverted, it is just a slower animation that has about a 1-1.5 second delay before the effect is activated that WILL get you killed at higher levels. The original animation suited it and was less intrusive.

Tornadoes only need QoL changes. They need to move about 4x faster when ADSing at a point and one of the tornadoes needs to be guaranteed to spawn at the cursor even if there is no enemy there. Sometimes you need a tornado at your feet to get enemies that are airdropping on you in the plains and there is no existing enemy to spawn it on.

Overall I will sum up my hoped changes to Zephyr. 

• Make the Airdash part of Tailwind as a short but powerful impulse animation that can build good speed, maintain all momentum outside of the animation, and resets bulletjump to use so you can stop exactly where you need.
• Return the instant grounded takeoff without the charge and make it so that holding while you rise acts as the option to lock you in place.
• Substantially increase the Airburst projectile speed to about 75m/s base.
• Revert the much slower, and what I find as a much less fitting animation for Turbulence that will get you killed.
• Make Tornadoes movement speed be about 3-4x faster and fix one spawn at your cursor every time to prepare a CC location in advance.

These are my changes to fix this updates changes which have severely interrupted zephyrs previously very responsive kit by adding longer cast delays and a completely out of place charge function as well as to fix some of the other areas she was lacking in and didn't get fixed.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Kurayami_No_Yenshi
I have reworded, slightly reconsidered my argument, and proposed a much more complete set of changes that could be made to much more effect.

[Eldnacpeek]

Atlas is so damn fun now, and his armor gets ridiculous. Loving this so far.

Edited February 10, 2018 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)Croewe]

21 minutes ago, Dawson1917 said:

tried to insert 2 images of WOF failing to touch enemies mere feet away, but it seems the forum doesn't like Imgur links

Right click on the image (or hold if on phone) and click open in new tab (or view image on phone) then copy the link the tab the picture is now in.

[YamiX22]

Zephyrs 4 still does virtually nothing to high level enemies as far as i can see, i think it would be better if it acted like mags 2 and circulated the bullets fired into it so it can do decent damage without needing to be recast 100 times to kill anything. and the ragdolling is still a problem although not as much as before as the ability makes it difficult to hit the enemies floating around rather than fling them everywhere

turbulence should also be recastable as zephyr tends to die the moment it deactivates

Edited February 10, 2018 by YamiX22

[EchoesOfRain]

Can Zephyr's Tailwind crash into walls and floors, stopping the flight? It feels amazing when flying across the Plains, but when focused on an area of enemies, or in the hallways of pretty much any other tileset, Tailwind just flies way too far without any way to stop. I'd rather be able to faceplant into an enemy rather than slide 10x further than Nezha with Maglev

[Hearsay]

Off-hand, the animation change to Turbulence feels slower to cast.  I don't know if its actually slower, but it just feels that way.

[Cytobel]

Is there any way to just REVERT Volt?  This is even worse than before...  Now I have even LESS chance against level 40+ enemies than before!  Either they die or I do, ZERO in-between.

This actually removes Discharge builds from viability.  I can't gain enough shields from Capacitance to survive, I can't CC, I'm running low on energy to drop Electric Shields AND they cost if I want to carry them...

This is a straight-up nerf.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Look, the issues I'm having here are pretty basic:  Volt is slow and squishy.  He has Speed to compensate, but that requires Duration and Strength.  Shock and Discharge both need Range, but Discharge also needs Efficiency AND now REQUIRES Duration.  Electric Shield isn't an ability you can create a build around, per se, but that one needs Duration.

See the problem?  Volt REQUIRES positives in ALL stats.  Now, it's even worse, and he's STILL not a damage 'Frame.  Deleting low level smurfs isn't anything to write home about, nor is it justification to call a 'Frame a damage specialist.  His damage output is, if anything, potentially worse than before, but it does spike past armor slightly more efficiently.

Volt just lost his best method of scaling into endgame content.  If the duration of the stun was AT BARE MINIMUM 6 seconds AT MAX RANGE this would be fine, but that's not the case.  As I can't carry shields around and have the energy I need to reliably respond to enemy threats, this means that Volt can only turtle up and pray...

I'm as disappointed with this nerf as I've been with the continued primacy of the Speed build.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Cytobel

[ScytodiDaedalus]

183% Duration on Zephyr and using Tailwind indoors is a huge backlash because the momentum will be kept and you will be STUCK against walls, Tail wind's Channeled ability into a STATIC hover is unpleasant and utterly flow killing.

Air burst is too slow and it doesn't travel for long enough to even touching the ground considering Zephyr's usual height when flying about.

[Aekhon]

So, quick testing with Ash confirmed what I've felt ever since marking was first implemented:  Bladestorm is still useless.  The only reason I was interested in this update was that the clip showing the new Bladestorm made it appear as though activating mark mode automatically marked all nearby enemies one time (it wouldn't have been a perfect solution, but it would have at least been a step in the right direction).  Obviously, this is not the case.  So long as we're required to mark targets, Bladestorm fails in its main function as an ultimate ability - to kill lots of enemies very quickly.  In the time it takes me to mark 10 enemies three times, I could've just killed them all with seeking shuriken/my polearm.  Please remove the marking requirement.  I'm fine with the rest as is, but marking absolutely ruins this ability.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Aekhon

[(PSN)salovel1991]

Seeing a lot of disappointment in this feedback. Sounds like it was pretty bad. Did the armor portion of Chroma get nerfed? If so the only positive I've seen is one person say Atlas changes were pretty decent

 

[Ninjamander]

PLX REVERT VOLT OVERLOAD ASAP! Do you even play your content DE? Because I seriously feel that the whole Dev team only play on mercury/earth and nowhere else at this point.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

Just now, Ninjamander said:

PLX REVERT VOLT OVERLOAD ASAP! Do you even play your content DE? Because I seriously feel that the whole Dev team only play on mercury/earth and nowhere else at this point.

What is the short comings of it now? 

[Versa]

51 minutes ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

183% Duration on Zephyr and using Tailwind indoors is a huge backlash because the momentum will be kept and you will be STUCK against walls, Tail wind's Channeled ability into a STATIC hover is unpleasant and utterly flow killing.

Air burst is too slow and it doesn't travel for long enough to even touching the ground considering Zephyr's usual height when flying about.

Pretty much what ive found. The duration scaling on the new physics on her 1 are terrible, high duration is required for any actual use of her 1 because the distance and momentum are nonexistent at low duration, but on that high duration that you now need, the momentum is unusably high. I would say that old tailwind was just better as the momentum still worked at lower durations but didnt lock you to walls on higher duration. I just want the original physics and functionality for tailwind back as the new one is unreliable and awkward.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Kurayami_No_Yenshi

[Kaokasalis]

Zephyrs changes are a nice and much needed improvement but she still has some issues regarding Tail Wind, mainly in that Zephyr lacks control and maneuverability. You generally cant break any speed you attain in the air unless you deliberately do a divebomb and Tail Wind is still using the same straight line dash as before which just makes it even more stiff. Tail Wind is also made worse by the fact that any power range and duration you use to strengthen her other ablities just makes the Tail Wind leaps that much larger.

Id suggest giving some means of stopping her own speed while in the as well giving Tail Wind the ability to arc if the user aims to the sides to solve the issues of lacking control and maneuverability.

What if Zephyrs double jump was reset by Tail Wind and could be used as a brake to stop the speed accumulated by Tail Wind? It would make turning easier since you cant recast Tail Wind until the old dash ends.

Also Airbust could use a lower energy cost considering how often you want to stun enemies with it as Tornados are still unreliable. Their speed when aiming to control them should be much faster. Its posible for enemies to outrun them.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Hieracon

[Cytobel]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

What is the short comings of it now? 

The loss of duration killed it ded.

The Discharge build isn't viable, as it's only damage focused, but worse still the duration took such a hit...

It's a 6 second duration now, BEFORE range is factored in.

NOTE:  I keep saying "duration", because that's all you build now.  Strength and Duration.  AKA, Speed build.  So, no point to nearly a full year's work in creating a build that made use of all Volt's skills, that's not an option now.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Cytobel

[(PSN)salovel1991]

1 minute ago, Cytobel said:

The loss of duration killed it ded.

The Discharge build isn't viable, as it's only damage focused, but worse still the duration took such a hit...

It's a 6 second duration now, BEFORE range is factored in.

So hidden nerfs?