Update 22.12.0: Warframe Changes Feedback Megathread

[Caelward]

I don't suppose you guys would consider moving Zephyr's Divebomb out from underneath Tailwind.

There has already been a precedent set for multiple passives on a single frame. So make Divebomb a passive upgrade as well.

Make it a passive that replaces/improves her airborn melee slam instead? That would eliminate moveset redundancies and make divebomb so much more natural to use.

[Azamagon]

9 hours ago, Caelward said:

I don't suppose you guys would consider moving Zephyr's Divebomb out from underneath Tailwind.

There has already been a precedent set for multiple passives on a single frame. So make Divebomb a passive upgrade as well.

Make it a passive that replaces/improves her airborn melee slam instead? That would eliminate moveset redundancies and make divebomb so much more natural to use.

As long as this bonus worked even when not equipping any melee weapon, sure, I'd be all for that.

[Caelward]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

As long as this bonus worked even when not equipping any melee weapon, sure, I'd be all for that.

You know, I've never taken Zephyr anywhere without a solid melee weapon. I usually take Jat Kittag because it serves the function that dive-bomb was supposed to fill. And it makes Zephyr far more difficult to take down in melee range. People complain about her being 'weak in melee', but I don't have that experience at all.

[Azamagon]

2 hours ago, Caelward said:

You know, I've never taken Zephyr anywhere without a solid melee weapon. I usually take Jat Kittag because it serves the function that dive-bomb was supposed to fill. And it makes Zephyr far more difficult to take down in melee range. People complain about her being 'weak in melee', but I don't have that experience at all.

Likewise, I actually use her very often in melee, even more so now when you have the panicbutton of Air Burst. Turbulence and her mobility always made her awesome for melee bouts imo. Melee works well with new Tornado too.

The reason I said allowing this bonus to be available even without a melee weapon was because of Sorties, which can disallow melee weapons. In such a sortie, she'd otherwise not be able to Divebomb in any way (which would be annoying to mobility, as melee slams and/or Divebomb are good midair breaks. I didn't realize how much I used them for this until Sorties started restricting you to non-melee setups).
If we had access to unarmed combat when unequipping our melee (which could allow slam-attacks), I'd say 100% to go ahead :)

[Caelward]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

Likewise, I actually use her very often in melee, even more so now when you have the panicbutton of Air Burst. Turbulence and her mobility always made her awesome for melee bouts imo. Melee works well with new Tornado too.

The reason I said allowing this bonus to be available even without a melee weapon was because of Sorties, which can disallow melee weapons. In such a sortie, she'd otherwise not be able to Divebomb in any way (which would be annoying to mobility, as melee slams and/or Divebomb are good midair breaks. I didn't realize how much I used them for this until Sorties started restricting you to non-melee setups).
If we had access to unarmed combat when unequipping our melee (which could allow slam-attacks), I'd say 100% to go ahead :)

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from and I agree.

I'm just annoyed with using divebomb as it is now because well... When you are driving, do you want to look down and locate your brake every time you're thinking of using it?

[Azamagon]

58 minutes ago, Caelward said:

I'm just annoyed with using divebomb as it is now because well... When you are driving, do you want to look down and locate your brake every time you're thinking of using it?

Oh boy do I agreed with you on that! That's a lost utility of Divebomb which I sorely miss. Which is why I suggested this:

Tap Tailwind = Dash forward like now
Hold Tailwind = Break your momentum + put you in hoverstate (this casting only works midair). Release to Divebomb (now slightly aimable forward at a small angle?). Use other actions (like jump/roll etc) to simply cancel the Hover without casting Divebomb.

It's easy to remember and has easy access all the time (and doesn't require looking down to Divebomb). Maybe not the smoothest inputs, but far from the worst as well.

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Azamagon

[Caelward]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

Oh boy do I agreed with you on that! That's a lost utility of Divebomb which I sorely miss. Which is why I suggested this:

Tap Tailwind = Dash forward like now
Hold Tailwind = Break your momentum + put you in hoverstate (this casting only works midair). Release to Divebomb (now slightly aimable forward at a small angle?). Use other actions (like jump/roll etc) to simply cancel the Hover without casting Divebomb.

It's easy to remember and has easy access all the time (and doesn't require looking down to Divebomb). Maybe not the smoothest inputs, but far from the worst as well.

 

The whole point of putting Divebomb on her as a passive is for ease of usage. I don't want to do any control or camera gymnastics. I don't want to be looking at precisely the right angle. I don't want to complicate control inputs when console users already have enough trouble with that. I wan't to be able to use it without the slightest hesitating or possible fumble exactly when I decide to use it.

That's why I came to the conclusion of replacing a redundant ability most casual and some experienced Zephyr users fall back to anyways because Divebomb is annoying to use.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Caelward

[Azamagon]

22 minutes ago, Caelward said:

The whole point of putting Divebomb on her as a passive is for ease of usage. I don't want to do any control or camera gymnastics. I won't want to be looking at precisely the right angle. I don't want to complicate control inputs when console users already have enough trouble with that. I wan't to be able to use it without the slightest hesitating or possible fumble exactly when I decide to use it.

That's why I came to the conclusion of replacing a redundant ability most casual and some experienced Zephyr users fall back to anyways because Divebomb is annoying to use.

Hmm, ok, I think I see how our opinions differ:

I liked the ability as an ability per se. For example, I liked its old utility of being able to go straight down without having to look down first, and saw some potential for the "bomb"-effect to be awesome in itself (i.e. as some rather potent nuke, rewarding you for diving from really high up). Also, I really like its sound-effects :P

If I understood your opinion correct (correct me if I say something wrong here, please!): You don't like the current clunkiness of Divebomb, nor do you really see the point of it when we already have meleeslams currently filling basicly the same role. So, you feel it's better to just bake in divebomb's effect as a passive bonus to Zephyr's meleeslams.

But... if you want it to be some kind of bonus for melee slams, there is STILL the fact that you have to deal with some of the "look downward"-shenanigans, so in THAT regard I don't feel it's completely resolved, no? Or am I missing something?
Regardless of that, I really wouldn't mind your idea at all! I can see a lot of potential in such a change. Especially if it still triggered the Divebomb sound-effect if you use it from high enough. Actually, it could potentially also solve another (rather annoying) issue with Zephyr doing melee slams: If she triggers a melee slam during any upward momentum of hers, it can take a LONG time before she actually performs the attack (due to the floatiness hindering her from performing the attack). If your "passive Divebomb on melee slam" also caused her melee slam to be perfomed instantly (i.e. ignoring the floatiness), there's even MORE weight to your suggestion! :)

Back on to my suggestion: It would only require slight control gymnastics (with zero camera gymnastics, really), but it comes with the bonus of giving us a way to trigger Hover way easier and from any point midair, Divebombing without needing to look down first AND for a way to break Tailwind's momentum. So, I guess my idea has SOME merit too? *shrugs*

EDIT: Not to mention, our ideas can actually be combined with great success:
1) Passive addition -> Divebomb's effects added to her melee slams, including the fast downward dive (countering her floatiness)
2) Tap Tailwind for jetting forward, like now
3) Hold Tailwind for momentumbreak and Hover (could be a toggle, rather than a hold-to-keep-it-active, making it easier for controller/console-players too!)

It'd actually be a rather awesome and smooth setup like this!

Edited March 29, 2018 by Azamagon

[Sasuda]

19 hours ago, Azamagon said:

It'd actually be a rather awesome and smooth setup like this!

I quite like this conversation, but also

 

23 hours ago, Azamagon said:

access to unarmed combat when unequipping our melee (which could allow slam-attacks)

This would be fantastic. Shooting to smash crates feels so wrong. being unable to use melee for parkour and movement is also really not fun feeling.

I personally liked Divebomb's old augment more than the new Tailwind one. Even if it needed more it was an augment I wish still existed.

[Caelward]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:22 PM, Azamagon said:

Regardless of that, I really wouldn't mind your idea at all! I can see a lot of potential in such a change. Especially if it still triggered the Divebomb sound-effect if you use it from high enough. Actually, it could potentially also solve another (rather annoying) issue with Zephyr doing melee slams: If she triggers a melee slam during any upward momentum of hers, it can take a LONG time before she actually performs the attack (due to the floatiness hindering her from performing the attack). If your "passive Divebomb on melee slam" also caused her melee slam to be perfomed instantly (i.e. ignoring the floatiness), there's even MORE weight to your suggestion! :)

 

Back on to my suggestion: It would only require slight control gymnastics (with zero camera gymnastics, really), but it comes with the bonus of giving us a way to trigger Hover way easier and from any point midair, Divebombing without needing to look down first AND for a way to break Tailwind's momentum. So, I guess my idea has SOME merit too? *shrugs*

EDIT: Not to mention, our ideas can actually be combined with great success:
1) Passive addition -> Divebomb's effects added to her melee slams, including the fast downward dive (countering her floatiness)
2) Tap Tailwind for jetting forward, like now
3) Hold Tailwind for momentumbreak and Hover (could be a toggle, rather than a hold-to-keep-it-active, making it easier for controller/console-players too!)

It'd actually be a rather awesome and smooth setup like this!

Yeah, the things I miss the most after Zephyrs rework was actually the tailwind instant launch and the easy divebomb. I had a solid handle on how those abilities would move me around without having to throw my camera around wildly.

So yeah, that divebomb passive would allow her a way to get to the ground now without messing about. And I've certainly noticed the problem with trying to melee slam with upward momentum as well. (also nice pun) The good part of melee slam is that we've all been using it so long, we know the range of motion required to activate it. And there's no control conflict with tailwind, so you automatically remove the nose grind problem.

As for a divebomb without a melee weapon? That would probably not let her do any damage without a weapon equipped for the sake of consistency. And as a passive it shouldn't be too strong in this situation. But we could probably get away with at least a stagger for any enemies in the impact zone.

 

But well, here's the important bit: To me, Zephyr has always been about mastering her quirks and abilities for the greatest ease of movement. If something takes away from that to make her clunkier or just outright stop moving, you can safely assume I don't like it. On the other hand, if a change improves her movement I'll probably really like it. Having to swing my camera around so wildly all the time to quickly get into the air and back down to the ground feels clunky and annoying when it used to be as easy as just pressing a button. I know bullet and high jump requires that sort of camera manipulation, but these changes compounded with the existing control requirements. The charge to jump I probably wouldn't mind if she could still run while I was charging. I mean, I'd still have to not use any weapons or abilities while charging, you could borrow the new turbulence animation to show she's in the middle of charging. Although I don't like the static hover either...

Edited March 31, 2018 by Caelward

[(PSN)Yuki5e7en]

What about Titania? She needs a QoL changes. 
It's maybe out of this topic but I like to point out that she needs some changes.
I've played the game for like 500 hours and so far, I haven't seen many someone using her, as if people already forgot she exist. 

[Caelward]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Yuki5e7en said:

What about Titania? She needs a QoL changes. 
It's maybe out of this topic but I like to point out that she needs some changes.
I've played the game for like 500 hours and so far, I haven't seen many someone using her, as if people already forgot she exist. 

Going by the regular rework patterns she'll get a rework when DE comes up with a deluxe skin or Titania gets primed.

That's how long it took for Hydroid and Zephyr.

[Ishvani]

Regarding Zephyr, 

Her changes are a lovely reminder that frames are always being balanced and reworked all the time to fit the ever-changing game. 

I would like to offer my opinion of them and what I think could help her fit in with the rest of the frame family.

 

Tail Wind - As many others have stated here, the momentum from Tail Wind acts similarly to how coptering in pre-parkour 2.0 would pin the frame against the wall or door that you happened to run into. Additionally, her charge/hover mechanic is a neat idea that I believe could use some tweaking. As it is, she's locked in place while enemies attack. Then, once you're hovering in the air, you get a static 10 seconds to make your shot(s) before falling back down. I feel that this is disproportionate to the rest of the ability. There is a great opportunity here for players to build around a really cool hovering mechanic but it's neglected because the 10 seconds is static.

Possible Solutions: 

-Allow us to cancel Tail Wind during the animation.

-Shorten charge time OR allow movement while charging

-Allow hover time to be affected by ability duration OR end each Tail Wind with a 10-second hover

Airburst - Airburst is a wonderful mechanic that I see loads of potential in. However, I feel that it's underwhelming in its current state. I don't mind the flight speed of the projectiles. But I see a chance to give Zephyr something special.

Possible Solutions: 

-Charge mechanic that increases knockback intensity and range while trading off flight-speed

Tornado - Easily one of my favourite abilities within the game in concept. The latest change to her Tornadoes is a welcome revision from her old kit, but still possesses some of the same issues I feel. I love that you can control the nearest tornado. I do not love that I have to aim down sights to make it happen. Unless I'm aiming at the enemy I'm about to shoot, it's dangerous for me to aim at the ground where I want the tornado to move towards. Lastly, I like the idea of her tornadoes dealing all the damage of a single shot to all affected enemies, but I envision a way to change people only playing Duration builds with her.

Possible Solutions:

-Hold 4 to re-spawn Tornadoes. Press 4 to set a visual waypoint that the nearest tornado will move towards.

-Tornadoes deal 0.5/1/1/2% total damage inflicted to them  |  Affected by power strength

 

Finally, thank you to all the dedicated developers who continue to work on this game that we get to play for free. 

[Darksora128]

Wow, coming back to the game after a year and I was shocked to find the large nerf to ember, my favorite frame to use. While I normally run an accelerant build, I enjoyed using world on fire as it was a really fun ability to use and offered good crowd control. Now it uses too much energy to justify using over accelerant and it's range is so short it's no longer effective as crowd control. I normally never post on forums or give feedback but I was so disappointed by this change I had to voice my take on it. Please reconsider this change.

[Caelward]

6 hours ago, Darksora128 said:

Wow, coming back to the game after a year and I was shocked to find the large nerf to ember, my favorite frame to use. While I normally run an accelerant build, I enjoyed using world on fire as it was a really fun ability to use and offered good crowd control. Now it uses too much energy to justify using over accelerant and it's range is so short it's no longer effective as crowd control. I normally never post on forums or give feedback but I was so disappointed by this change I had to voice my take on it. Please reconsider this change.

It seems like if they wanted to eliminate the Ember problems they could have put in damage fall-off. Enemies would still burn at the same ranges, but after a certain point it wouldn't be for damage anymore, but just for CC.

Try to make her emulate Nova a bit. Nova allows everyone around her to enjoy the benefits of priming up enemies for explosions. Surely Ember could light enemies on fire so allies could spot all the candles that needed to be snuffed. Just don't make it so Ember isn't automatically snuffing those enemies out herself.

[GGbroman]

@DE.Rebecca

Mesa Suggestion:
I was wondering if it was possible for Mesa's first ability to be an ability which I can turn on while in peacemaker mode? At the moment I can only press 2 and then take all that built up charge and release it on the next shot while in peacemaker mode, but it would be super awesome if I can turn it on again and build up again and then toggle it again to fire off another big shot (and maybe even for the next [insert number here] number of shots [affected by power strength possibly?])

[Guest]

Zephyr's 2 and 4 actually have anti-synergy.  While her 2 will make tornadoes larger, allowing them to deal damage over a larger area (maybe? it's hard to tell in testing), her 2 will ALSO knock enemies away from the tornadoes.  Scattering enemies is the last thing Zephyr wants when it comes to hurting them with tornadoes.  She wants enemies neatly stacked up on top of each other, so she can drop a big fat nuke right on their collective heads.

[-Taps-]

regarding nezhas new augment:

i have the feeling that nezhas reaping chakram augment is rendered useless by the fact that warding halo is needed to play nezha and reaping chakram can't heal the halos "health". healing on nezha is not really synergizing well, it would have been such a great opportunity, it might have even made nezha able to be usable on higher levels if it healed the halo, now it just seems like a gimmik (especially with the heal range), we already have so many things that can open enemies up to ground finishers, and this might be the most clunky one to use.

Edited April 11, 2018 by ego-nihilist

[RobRalneR]

Here are my thoughts on how to improve Ember.

For me, 3 things need to be changed. Her passive, her 3rd ability and 4th ability.

New passive: Angered Ignition

Instead of triggering it while on fire, it will be triggered when you're at 20% health. Since Ember's abilities take a lot of energy, her passive while fatally hurt will not only make her stronger but also regenerate energy passively in order to get back to fighting with her abilities again.

Why change? Because if we leave the passive as is, Ember needs to take damage from specific enemies, specific locations or just by hurting herself with some self-damage weapons which makes it one of the worst passives ever given to a frame. She's squishy too, so hurting yourself with self-damaging weapons or getting hurt by anything that deals heat procs just to activate the passive feels unrewarding and risky, because most of the times you'll die in high levels if you try to do that.

3rd ability: Fire Blast

Functions the same, but upon activation, enemies who are hit by the shockwave will give Ember a passive bonus that grants her 15% damage reduction per enemy hit (can be scaled with power strength mods) up to 95% maximum cap (will not scale with strength mods).

Upon leaving the fire ring, damage reduction bonus will start to decay after 20 seconds (functions like Zenurik's Energizing Dash and can be affected by duration mods).

Casting the ability again will remove the bonus and the amount of percentage you gained from it will be transferred as additional damage to the fire ring.

So that's 95% damage reduction = 95% additional damage. 225 base ring damage + 213 additional damage. With power strength mods, the numbers will be much higher.

Can't decide if this should be an augment or built into the ability. Decided it should be built in.

4th ability: World on Fire

Synergy with her 2nd ability. Enemies who are affected by Accelerant will be inflicted by World on Fire's explosions regardless if the aura range is drained.

Say you have 3 enemies standing near Ember's 20m radius. Her 4th ability is now dealing 100% more damage and radius range is reduced by 50% which is 10m. If she activates Accelerant, enemies within 20m radius will receive damage from her 4th ability.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Rob12772
Added an explanation why Ember's passive needs to be changed.

[SweetAnubis]

Zephyr Rework still needs more tweaks... she is still vastly under performing in true end game content even with the best possible mod builds. She needs more synergy between abilities and more survivability capability without turbulence. Cool skill and all just not reliable enough... here's my list of tweaks i'd like to see some variation of.

 

Armor/Health: In most situations her turbulence serves just fine however in later game it's all but a wet paper ball. When you get to things such as sorties, Plague Star or other end game content she has next to no survivability. If anything sneaks through her turbulence she gets one shot-ed, and that happens very frequently late game. Not to mention the casting time leaves her wide open as well. As such i feel she would benefit from a boost to her defense and health, to reduce the frequency of being one shot-ed. This adjustment wouldn't need to be huge thanks to Turbulence but does still need a slight boost.

Turbulence: This is her primary source of survivability currently. She needs a reduction of cast time for this as even someone constantly paying perfect attention is left wide open for one shots for way to long.  Also allow for recast-ability while currently active. This would allow attentive players to reduce her vulnerability time further. No other changes need made to this ability as any other changes would make it to strong

Airburst: Ok neat ability but it's faster and more efficient to just use a melee weapon. This ability should have more cc capability. To add more ability synergy tie in with an active turbulence to add an extended knockdown period or even a stun period for enemies (much how inaros desiccation blinds enemies for basically ever, but perhaps a shorter amount of time). This would tie in with the projectile speed increase making airburst faster and more powerful by adding a stun to the ability.

Tornadoes: Ok so i wan't to love the changes so far but the biggest needed change has yet to happen. It's a very weak CC ability as is cause enemies just sit in it very briefly and get blown back out to start shooting at you again. Frankly they suck at sucking. Perhaps to explain a better synergy only boost the holding ability of the tornadoes when struck with airburst. They get bigger so why not hold enemies in and stop flinging them out as well when hit with airburst.

Tailwind/Divebomb: Control ability being able to choose when to stop for example take away the in use block for divebomb while tailwind is in use so we can end it as needed or allow us to jump out or roll out of tailwind at will. (Potential synergy: when turbulence active allows player to jump out of tailwind or recast tailwind and divebomb at will)

[Granitore]

Zephyr:

Ok, i am really new to this game...but i recordnized something when i watched the chat / videos about her....since Turbulence has gotten a longer cast animation (it looks cool, but as some players say: a too long cast time can kill you), maybe it should be changed to just one cast for activating it and a second cast to deactivate it (then the long cast animation dont need to be changed, it looks really cool), so people dont need to pay attention too much for recasting this ability and can instead focus on the fight, instead this ability will drain your energy and when it reaches 0 Turbulence deactivates itself...

 

I mean we already got some warframes that have such "cast for activate and cast for deactivate, but when your energy reaches 0 it will deactivate" playstyle, just like ember´s world on fire, chroma´s spectral scream / effigy, banshee´s sound quake, equinox´s pacify &provoke / Mend & Maim, Excalibur´s exalted blade, Hydroid´s undertow, Inaros sandstorm, Ivara´s prowl, mesa´s peacemaker, Nezha´s fire walker, Nyx´s absorb, Oberon´s renewal, Titania´s razorwing (wich really has a good movement, zephyr´s movement from 1 is good, but not something like titania´s 4, but i really like dive bomb, eh back to the point), Valkyr´s hysteria and Wukong´s primal fury.....

maybe i forgot something but i find this function really good.....

 

And not every ability is a damage ability, like ivara´s prowl...so why not instead of changing the cast animation again, change the way Turbulence works, make it "never ending" (of course energy siphon is deactivated while Turbulence is active), so that you can pay more attention on the fight instead of looking evey 3 seconds to the right corner of your screen to see if the buff is still active...and of course you have to manage your energy...but that counts for every warframe with such ability function......so pretty please?

Edited April 16, 2018 by Granitore

[Checht]

I'm happy with Discharge's rework. The CC potential of Discharge was a little too powerful in my opinion before this rework. I'm grateful that it's toned down.

[Astilimos]

I just got back to warframe recently and I'm satisfied with Ember world of fire change, people getting all kills in defense missions by just standing in the middle and sometimes refilling energy were annoying.

[Caelward]

9 hours ago, Astilimos said:

I just got back to warframe recently and I'm satisfied with Ember world of fire change, people getting all kills in defense missions by just standing in the middle and sometimes refilling energy were annoying.

They can still irritate the hell out of new players, but have lost a large portion of their later game CC.

[GGbroman]

@DE.Rebecca

Nice job with Khora DE. Just gonna make a couple suggestions (as I'm sure others have made them in previous posts relating to khora):

1. To fix the regdolling on her 4th ability (preferably to just let em swing less vigorously)

2. allow the whip to be used at a faster rate than what it is now. I feel like there is a cooldown on it and i want it to be as fast casting as atlas' 1st ability so i can whip faster and stuff

3. BEING GREEDY HERE: For some selfish reason or another, I wanted to be able to cast up to 4 of her strangledomes (mainly cuz with a range of 100 (or maybe even 115 percent)) it would definitely provide more control over an area than merely 2). i guess I'm simply thinking about frost and how he gets to have 4 globes.

4. That kavat she summons needs to be affected by animal instinct, pack leader, and that swipe mod that removes enemy armor. Basically a good portion of the kavat/companion mods don't work with her and since it's a kavat, i expected it to work with those mods.

Also lol she has a dash polarity on her and the only dash mod is animal instinct and that doesn't work with venari. Bit of an oversight there DE. I'm assuming you'll fix that in a later update.

5. You better make her passive affect all companions lmao u buggin out DE for limiting it. 4 players with their popular carrier means 60% armor boost and then 15% more from khora's venari means a nice 75%. Even tho the passive is as finnicky as vauban's buff armor passive, it should at least not be limited to the companions khora has only (15% per companion for a max of 30%).

 

Overall tho i am liking her alot. She is a bit difficult to get the range right especially when you wanna make use of all the skills and still have enough duration and a small enough 4th ability strangeldome to minmize the ragdoll issue less ragdolling should help alot.