Update 22.12.0: Warframe Changes Feedback Megathread

[Pr3acher87]

ASH - Bladestorm

Teleporting into "cinematic"

The changes are definitely in the right direction, but could use a bit of ease of use, to keep up with the high pace of the game.

Currently you have to point almost directly at a marked target in order to engage into the cinematic, which can be hard to do because they all move around and shoot, and the time window to do so is also quite short.

It would be nice if you could use the teleport ability in bladestorm without the required line of sight, just tap 3 and go into cinematic. Or if you want to keep the line of sight, at least remove the energy cost to activate it. 

[Squorpain]

My Thoughts on Atlas update:

I think that the rubble mechanic decay delay and decay rate are too fast and could be slowed down just a bit(filling a sieve with water is not fun and that is what rubble feels like to me atm), also i would be nice if the 3 meter univac affected rubble bits as well.
It would also be nice to be able to stack more than 1500 armor.

I also think that at the very least petrify needs a energy cost reduction. i would also like to see field of view affected by range but that would be a cherry on top.

 

as it stands the rubble mechanic and petrify are not really worth putting the extra effort in to use when i can keep playing atlas how i have been and staying tanky by punching.
i love the idea and want to see it work it is just too clunky at the moment.

 

22.12.3 update:

i feel that the rubble decay is good now but i would still like to see a longer delay before rubble starts to decay.

also since ive been reading other peoples posts in this thread i thought i might suggest a hybrid of some ideas ive seen.

Rubble Delay and Decay Rate scale with duration
Uncapped armor limit
Diminishing returns on rubble as you acquire
Example: For each 1000 after 1500, decay rate & delay reduce dynamically by 10%
@1500 armor, Decay delay & rate are at normal
@2500 armor, Decay delay & rate are at 90% of normal
@3500 armor, Decay delay & rate are at 81% of normal
@4500 armor, Decay delay & rate are at 73% of normal

Edited February 13, 2018 by Squorpain
22.12.3 update

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

I haven't actually gotten to play with the update since I'm on console, but I use Atlas very frequently and have been scanning feedback. I was a bit worried about the instant cast Petrify and it doesn't sound like it's gonna sell me. Costing 75 energy every time and hearing about the fast Rubble decay means I'll most likely still not use it much, and the reduced effectiveness on the augment stings even more.

 

Prior to any mention of a rework, I was personally hoping you'd change the effect to an aura that slowed enemies progressively more and more until they were Petrified after a certain duration. Make it expensive enough to not want to keep it active 100% of the time, but still cheap enough to make it worth using when you need that extra bump.

[Teshin_Dax]

Ember's changes are great!

But please consider adding this:

FIREBALL - the charged version should have more fire aoe duration or range.. because at higher lvls you should get something out of it when the damage wont help anymore.

FIREBALL AUGMENT - should also apply a fire aura on the ally (would be nice on a melee warframe)

ACCELERANT - the augment effect should be applied and the augment reworked.. because this ability wont be useful if the player doesnt mod around fire damage or if the player doesnt use the augment (we usually need corrosive and rivens... there is not much space for a fire mod)

FIRE BLAST - the ring flames should appear bigger.. sometimes im not sure if i get the dmg buff or if i should kneel to fire exactly through the ring animation size

WORLD ON FIRE AUGMENT - It should receive a rework.. The ability has enough cc on 100% energy drain, because it focus a small group of enemies

[LascarCapable]

il y a 13 minutes, (PS4)Vagnar a dit :

I haven't actually gotten to play with the update since I'm on console, but I use Atlas very frequently and have been scanning feedback. I was a bit worried about the instant cast Petrify and it doesn't sound like it's gonna sell me. Costing 75 energy every time and hearing about the fast Rubble decay means I'll most likely still not use it much, and the reduced effectiveness on the augment stings even more.

 

Prior to any mention of a rework, I was personally hoping you'd change the effect to an aura that slowed enemies progressively more and more until they were Petrified after a certain duration. Make it expensive enough to not want to keep it active 100% of the time, but still cheap enough to make it worth using when you need that extra bump.

It's still a MUCH better CC power than what it was before. It's a strong upgrade that I am pretty sure you're going to actually use at least for higher level enemies. Rubble will also heal you if you aren't at full health, which is IMO the most helpful thing about the rubble mechanic : it gives to Atlas some very welcome self sustain, which allows you to play him with something else than Hirudo or a life strike melee. Consider the armor gain from the rubble is mostly a compensation for picking up rubble at full health so it doesn't go to waste.

[Cytobel]

Okay, I've had time to think.

In order to solve the primary shortcoming of Volt's Discharge, I've come up with 2 good solutions.

1.  Increase the minimum duration of Discharge at it's max range to 4 seconds.  Doing so grants Volt all the CC he absolutely requires while maintaining the new damage output, thus pushing Volt towards DPS without sacrificing his survivability for a non-scalable damage number.

2.  Give all Warframes an Augment slot.  For many 'Frames there are a variety of useful build options, most more or less successful.  Augments are just that, something that improves upon a skill in order to strengthen a specific build logic.  However, for some 'Frames there are specific augments that are as optional as the 4th wheel on a car.  Yes, the 'Frame CAN operate without the augment in question, but usually there are serious problems to this strategy.

The advantages of an augment-specific slot on 'Frames are thus:  first, all 'Frames may benefit from this change, rather than just Volt; secondly, augment-specific slots drive players to invest more time and Formas into any given 'Frame, thus increasing the chances of deeper understanding of that 'Frame's skills and quirks, as well as that 'Frame's interactions in the rest of the game.

Finally, there is a more important benefit to augment slots being added to Warframe: build diversity.  Augments themselves add benefits to specific skills, but the game and the 'Frames are (somewhat) balanced around a player using all available slot space on stat-buffing mods.  Before Exilus mods had the Exilus slot, nearly all of these mods represented wasted effort on the part of Digital Extremes in design, coding, and implementation.  In many ways, the same can be held to be true of augments now.  Either an aug is required (and thus an auto-include in the build) or it will never be added for any reason whatsoever.  Adding the augment slot would, at BARE MINIMUM, increase build diversity.

Either of these solutions seem to be good answers, and they aren't even mutually-exclusive.

[Darnsig]

Ash

While his buff is appreciated and makes him a better frame it also raises one question. Why would anyone use Shuriken over Blade Storm?

Shuriken deals less damage that Blade Storm, can lock on to an enemy behind a wall or a railing that will result in a miss while Blade Storm is guaranteed hit, and even cost slightly more energy(its 1 point of energy for 2 enemies, but still, it does leave bad taste in the mouth). The only reason to use Shuriken right now is its augment, and it doesnt feel like a very good justification.

I would realy like to see it adressed soon. Maybe make it so amount of Shurikens scales with Power Strength, Punch Through etc. Something that would make Shuriken worth using without his augment.

Zephyr

The changes to her mostly prety good, however changes to Tornado makes the ability much worse.

If 2 or more tornadoes affect same enemy, that enemy extremly likely to just fall out of both tornadoes rendering ability useless. In addition ability to control movement of tornado by aiming down sight is extremly conterintuitive and causes tornado full of enemies that you want to shoot move further away from you. It also apears that bigger enemies like Heavy Gunners and Bombards fall out of tornadoes much easier that before. And to top it all using Airburst to make tornadoes bigger feels like it makes tornadoes drop enemies easier.

These changes ultimatly caused more problems that they solved. There is no need to have tornado steering mechanic, especialy since now ability is recastable. Tornadoes feel like they hold enemies better in some cases and worse in anothers. Tornadoes feel like they move too fast for the own good. And overall Tornado as ability feels worse that before.

[Cytobel]

8 hours ago, Dark_Roxas said:

I used the plasmor(had no changes except the higher mag

Errm..  welp, THAR'S yer p'oblem!

Plasmor took a much bigger nerf hit than most people realize.  I'd recommend trying ANYTHING ELSE, as Plasmor ain't likely to be repaired anytime soon.

In fact, if slot space is important to you, junk it.  There are plenty of other options that have radically fewer drawbacks built in.  Worse case scenario, just buy a BP later on and build it again.

For now, I recommend you get another gun.

[DeadlyCreation]

Cheers 

Before you stop reading and think:"OMG another one of those chroma defender as***** ." hear me out. i love the change and it was 100% needed. this is just my obseration and i want to carry it out:

 

About Chroma:

PRIOR to the change Chroma dealt way more DMG than he should have. On my testing build the buff is 822% . so 8x DMG but in reality the weapons DMG was around x200 (207x to be exact. did some testing before the patch. my arca plasmor did 34000dmg without crit etc. only buff and mods applied. testing with the same build resulted in the arca plasmor dealing allways 164dmg without the buff (against arid heavy gunner level120))

AFTER the change: 800% buff -> 8xDMG -> 3-4x dmg output (same test. same build. arca plasmor does constitent 594 dmg with buff. so a 3.6xDMG multiplier. i also ran some tests with some other weapons. same result. the dmg output is somewhat between 3.4x. thats the halve of the DMG of what it should do.

 

Did Chroma just stumble from on bug into the next?

 

[cursedmoon13]

22 minutes ago, D20 said:

It's still a MUCH better CC power than what it was before. It's a strong upgrade that I am pretty sure you're going to actually use at least for higher level enemies. Rubble will also heal you if you aren't at full health, which is IMO the most helpful thing about the rubble mechanic : it gives to Atlas some very welcome self sustain, which allows you to play him with something else than Hirudo or a life strike melee. Consider the armor gain from the rubble is mostly a compensation for picking up rubble at full health so it doesn't go to waste.

I'm sorry, but I feel I have to strongly disagree with you on most of this. Petrify was amazing CC before, and now it's just so-so, and way too expensive for what it does; and, while the heal from rubble is definitely at least as helpful if not more so than the armor, the fact that Petrify costs so much to give so little, calling it "sustain" falls just short of a joke in my mind.

[cursedmoon13]

5 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

PRIOR to the change Chroma dealt way more DMG than he should have. On my testing build the buff is 822% . so 8x DMG but in reality the weapons DMG was around x200 (207x to be exact. did some testing before the patch. my arca plasmor did 34000dmg without crit etc. only buff and mods applied. testing with the same build resulted in the arca plasmor dealing allways 164dmg without the buff (against arid heavy gunner level120))

AFTER the change: 800% buff -> 8xDMG -> 3-4x dmg output (same test. same build. arca plasmor does constitent 594 dmg with buff. so a 3.6xDMG multiplier. i also ran some tests with some other weapons. same result. the dmg output is somewhat between 3.4x. thats the halve of the DMG of what it should do.

 

Did Chroma just stumble from on bug into the next?

 

Vex armor is now (wasn't before) additive with base damage mods like Point Blank, so if you have Point Blank and/or a riven that gives +% damage on it, that might explain it.

[Winterbraid]

Some numbers regarding the impact of the update on Chroma's damage output.

Testing against a level 120 Corrupted Heavy Gunner with a 299% strength build and a crit- and Radiation-oriented Opticor build. No Corrosive Projection or Rifle Amp involved.

Chroma build:

Spoiler

Opticor build:

Spoiler

For clarification: Radiation has been used as it deals neutral damage against CHG health and armor and doesn't have the innate damage-increasing properties of Corrosive damage (so I can shoot the CHG a few times until I get a crit without the corrosive proc skewing the test). The Opticor shot has two instances of damage before multishot: A focused, high-damage central beam and a wider, low-damage AoE. For the purposes of the test, I'm using critical headshots with the central beam. As far as I know, multishot doesn't affect single shot damage, it merely creates additional instances of damage each with their own chance to crit - so it has no impact on the test other than making it easier to get the crit I need.

Base damage without buffs: 11,848

Spoiler

Damage with fully charged Vex Armor, pre-update: 221,879

Spoiler

Damage with fully charged Vex Armor, post-update: 35,324

Spoiler

For additional reference, below are the numbers some other frames are capable of with 299% power strength, using the same weapon and no Rifle Amp or Corrosive Projection. Not listed is Nova, who deals 2x damage regardless of stats, and Harrow, who I don't own. Tests run pre-update, which I understand did not bring major changes to those abilities.

Banshee with one layer of Sonar on the weakspot: 177,140

Spoiler

Ivara with Prowl: 26,018

Spoiler

Mag with Magnetize: 70,856

Spoiler

Mirage with Eclipse standing in light: 37,674

Spoiler

Octavia with Amp: 28,922

Spoiler

Rhino with Roar: 29,562

Spoiler

Volt shooting through one Electric Shield: 26,321

Spoiler

Volt shooting through five Electric Shields: 39,441

Spoiler

So that's it for the hard numbers, which are objective (until someone points out a flaw in my methods). Following are my entirely personal and subjective thoughts and comments.

Chroma has vacated his personal "unkillable solo damage monster" tier and joined the growing roster of Rhino clones centered around time management and more or less gimmicky mechanics. Is Vex Armor still "one of the strongest boosting abilities in the game" as advertised in the update notes? I think that's a resounding "no", he occupies the upper middle tier at best. Is Vex Armor competitive compared to other boosting abilities? Subjective, but yes, I'd say its mechanics are still much less awkward or restrictive compared to some of the other ones.

Is he likely to retain his place in Teralyst hunting squads? Others will have to speak up about that since I've only ever taken down two in a duo squad. But if I were to hypothesize based on my limited knowledge, he will have to compete against Rhino as the single go-to damage dealing frame. Both have a range limit on their buffs which is fairly low given the scale and pace of the game. However, Rhino's range is both higher to begin with and allies only need to be close during the initial cast to maintain the buff for the entire duration, which leaves more room to improve QoL with Narrow Minded. If Vex Armor is a mobile aura now like advertised, allies need to constantly remain close to benefit from the buff, which makes range much more crucial and as a result will lead to more frequent recasting. In conclusion, I would risk a guess that the preferred composition for damage will be Harrow and/or Rhino and (if you still have a spot) whichever one of the other team-boosting frames you find the least awkward to run with, since all of them seem roughly comparable.

Overall, it is my opinion that the Chroma nerf has gone too far. He's lost all of his unique identity and is now at best a slightly better Rhino, at worst an inferior one. One fact I rarely see mentioned is that he still more or less requires a self-damaging secondary to reliably benefit from Vex Armor, which effectively limits his loadout by one slot. The ability to refresh the buff is a nice boost to QoL, but the punishment for letting it run out, getting scrambled, falling into a pit etc. is still there for a much smaller reward.

And while Vex Armor does provide a bit more damage than Roar with a basic primary build (whether you find an improvement of 20% impressive in exchange for the drawbacks listed above is up to you), the buff yields diminishing returns with damage mods on your weapon. Using Serration and Heavy Caliber together with a +200% damage Riven, Vex Armor becomes a straight downgrade to Roar. This is of course purely hypothetical, since a clever player will at that point swap out Heavy Caliber for Vigilante Armaments, faction damage, or another elemental mod. However, there are other sources of extra base damage, such as auras, other buffing abilities, or the self-buff inherent to Mesa's Peacemaker; all of those contribute towards reducing the (already minor) advantage of Vex Armor over Roar. Ironically, the buff is much more valuable for secondaries, which don't have their own version of Heavy Caliber.

As for the defensive aspect of the buff, the drop in survivability is harder to measure but it appears significant. At the very least it still seems to make much more of a difference at a lower cost than Iron Skin, which should be more accurately called Paper Skin in higher levels.

A few more general finishing thoughts. While running those tests, I couldn't help but think that the majority of damage boosts other than Rhino's are honestly... not very impressive. Compared to the all-encompassing, "cast and forget" style of Roar, most of them come with a significant drawback - be it the charge-up mechanic of Vex Armor, the static nature of Amp and Electric Shield, or the tileset dependence of Eclipse. In addition, most of those buffs only benefit weapons, and even that advantage is circumstantial as seen above.

Chroma used to be an outlier among them due to his massive returns and near-infinite survivability, but that is no longer the case. The next obvious outlier is Banshee; among the ones I tested she is hands down the best source of added damage, potentially rivaling pre-nerf Chroma (again, Harrow not included), but offset by her low survivability and the RNG nature of weakspot placement.

That leaves us with Mag, who's the third outlier and an interesting case in my opinion. Her Magnetize ability at 299% strength has a damage multiplier of 6, which to me seems like a reasonable number for a situational ability that requires considerable setup or has other remarkable downsides (and really is closer to the sort of number I was hoping to see on Chroma).

Unfortunately, Magnetize is just a little bit too situational as the bubble suffers from diminishing returns against bosses, does little to prevent additional enemies from simply walking out of it, and generally tends to be a hindrance in killing enemies other than the initial target (unless using lingering AoE weapons such as Pox or Mutalist Cernos, which is another interesting niche). Not to mention Mag, like many other supposed "damage-dealing" frames, struggles to survive when trying to actually play aggressively. Regardless, I feel like Magnetize could easily become a much better ability with some minor QoL changes and its numbers are a good point of reference for balancing other high upkeep abilities.

To sum it up:

• Chroma needs all of his survivability and some of his damage back. His old damage reduction values were hardly out of place for a game where Nidus and Mesa exist. As for damage, a middle ground between the old and the new value should be found. I'd gladly give up all of his QoL changes for that.
• Glass cannon frames need more survivability.
• We could do with less emphasis on duration-based abilities in the game.
• Abilities that require considerable effort to set up and maintain should have considerably stronger effects than "cast and forget" abilities.
• Banshee could perhaps trade some of her raw damage potential for an ability to target weakspots more consistently, instead of relying on stacking multiple Sonars on top of each other.
• Magnetize needs stronger CC and better overall effects on enemies other than the main target; perhaps much better scaling on the DoT aspect, or automatically switching the "epicenter" to another target within the AoE after the original target perishes. The augment should be rolled into the base ability.
• What's up with Mirage's Eclipse and Octavia's Amp both displaying "598%" as their buff value but one resulting in 30% more damage than the other?
• Balancing the game around a single boss is a bad idea.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb cursedmoon13:

Vex armor is now (wasn't before) additive with base damage mods like Point Blank, so if you have Point Blank and/or a riven that gives +% damage on it, that might explain it.

yeah. yeah... that might be my fail. anyway i would still love to have the dmg be what is displayed. before the dmg was overkill because of some bug. as my testing before show the multiplier was over 200x. thats way waaay too high. (also you cna find this information in several youtube videos ) in my opinion the change was just wayyyy too drastic. they should have just fix it to be a constitent. so if it says 800% it is a 8x dmg multiplier. not 4x not 200x just 8x

 

[throwaway987654321]

36 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Okay, I've had time to think.

In order to solve the primary shortcoming of Volt's Discharge, I've come up with 2 good solutions.

1.  Increase the minimum duration of Discharge at it's max range to 4 seconds.  Doing so grants Volt all the CC he absolutely requires while maintaining the new damage output, thus pushing Volt towards DPS without sacrificing his survivability for a non-scalable damage number.

2.  Give all Warframes an Augment slot.  For many 'Frames there are a variety of useful build options, most more or less successful.  Augments are just that, something that improves upon a skill in order to strengthen a specific build logic.  However, for some 'Frames there are specific augments that are as optional as the 4th wheel on a car.  Yes, the 'Frame CAN operate without the augment in question, but usually there are serious problems to this strategy.

The advantages of an augment-specific slot on 'Frames are thus:  first, all 'Frames may benefit from this change, rather than just Volt; secondly, augment-specific slots drive players to invest more time and Formas into any given 'Frame, thus increasing the chances of deeper understanding of that 'Frame's skills and quirks, as well as that 'Frame's interactions in the rest of the game.

Finally, there is a more important benefit to augment slots being added to Warframe: build diversity.  Augments themselves add benefits to specific skills, but the game and the 'Frames are (somewhat) balanced around a player using all available slot space on stat-buffing mods.  Before Exilus mods had the Exilus slot, nearly all of these mods represented wasted effort on the part of Digital Extremes in design, coding, and implementation.  In many ways, the same can be held to be true of augments now.  Either an aug is required (and thus an auto-include in the build) or it will never be added for any reason whatsoever.  Adding the augment slot would, at BARE MINIMUM, increase build diversity.

Either of these solutions seem to be good answers, and they aren't even mutually-exclusive.

Can you please post this on the general/warframe feedback sections? I think a dedicated augment slot is 100% needed and would make sense to be on frames

[(PSN)JonathGariepy]

il y a 10 minutes, DeadlyCreation a dit :

Cheers 

Before you stop reading and think:"OMG another one of those chroma defender as***** ." hear me out. i love the change and it was 100% needed. this is just my obseration and i want to carry it out:

 

About Chroma:

PRIOR to the change Chroma dealt way more DMG than he should have. On my testing build the buff is 822% . so 8x DMG but in reality the weapons DMG was around x200 (207x to be exact. did some testing before the patch. my arca plasmor did 34000dmg without crit etc. only buff and mods applied. testing with the same build resulted in the arca plasmor dealing allways 164dmg without the buff (against arid heavy gunner level120))

AFTER the change: 800% buff -> 8xDMG -> 3-4x dmg output (same test. same build. arca plasmor does constitent 594 dmg with buff. so a 3.6xDMG multiplier. i also ran some tests with some other weapons. same result. the dmg output is somewhat between 3.4x. thats the halve of the DMG of what it should do.

 

Did Chroma just stumble from on bug into the next?

 

The damage bonus (800%) is additive so if you have +damage mods on then x3,4 sounds about right. 

Also, before the nerf, you were using a bugged weapon (Plasmor was getting Vex three times or something like that), hardly a reason to nerf a whole frame if it's based on a bug exploit... Just fix your damn game DE. 

And even then, obviously the damage nerf is fine, most Chroma main agree on that, it's the eHP nerf that turned chroma into a pile of wet cardboard that is not okay with any of us. 

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PS4)JonathGariepy:

The damage bonus (800%) is additive so if you have +damage mods on then x3,4 sounds about right. 

Also, before the nerf, you were using a bugged weapon (Plasmor was getting Vex three times or something like that), hardly a reason to nerf a whole frame if it's based on a bug exploit... Just fix your damn game DE. 

And even then, obviously the damage nerf is fine, most Chroma main agree on that, it's the eHP nerf that turned chroma into a pile of wet cardboard that is not okay with any of us. 

for me it feels like: ohh we got a bug that clearly makes him waaaaaay too strong with certain weapons.. better nerf the whole frame to make him S#&$ty with every weapon. instead of fixing the exploit.

Edited February 10, 2018 by DeadlyCreation

[An8rchy]

So, heres my opinion with ember:
We all know that Warframe lets us do our own builds right ? We build how we want and thats ok, Well with the Ember nerfs that won't happen anymore  let me explain.
If de wants us to use Wof at all after this nerf, you gotta have both streamline and Fleeting expertise. more so, if you want to get a good range at base, you will put stretch, also ember needs duration so P continuity is a must. 
If you have been counting thats 4 mandatory mods. Yes, you can recast wof to reset drain and range, but, who here remembers why Wof is a toggle now ? it was changed because players hated having to click buttons on a timer. This is the same as Mesa, but heres the difference,
 Mesa can actually scale, has a 95% dmg reduction, and a Squad wide cc.
Yes, the dmg is great and might help her kill stuff at now, lvl 50-60 easier. but at what cost ? struggleing for energy ? getting shot because the range of wof is smaller than melee range ?
I want to suggest things but, to me Ember has to go to the drawing board and rethink, keeping what the players like and starting new on what they dont.
I will be using spoilers now since the post might get too big.

Fireball being replaced by a Fire Wisp:

Spoiler

This ability has to go, by seeing how ember is designed, she is a glass cannon, she has to be able to sustain herself, deal dmg and be nimble.
Holding a fireball to get a napalm isnt any of those. (also draining more energy but i will skip that)
So heres what i suggest:

Fireball is replaced for fire wisp
These wisps give the following effects:
r5 firewalker buffs (at base, can increase with power strgh)
Dmg reduction capped at 70% (based on power strgh, base should sit around 40%) (shes a glass cannon, she cant have as much as Mesa or a tank but not too little where its useless)

The augment will let you:
Cast it on team mates
Dmg reduction on teammates is reducted for 40%
Gives heat dmg to caster and teammates that were casted

What i want to achive with this change is, keep the niche of fireball, that gives heat dmg with the augment, but also make ember a team player, giving a small dmg reduction as overheat, but making her more mobile.

 

Accelarant remaining as it is:

Spoiler

I dont have much to say here, Accelarant is on a good spot. so no changes here besides the augment, this one is hard cuz accelarant is already a pretty good ability, but i really dont know what to say to make it a choice instead of a direct buff or useless augment 

 

Fireblast chaging to a Naplam:

Spoiler

 

This is another ability that has to go in my opinion, The augment is a glorified 1 wave of wof.  

I would change this to some sort of soft napalm (will explain later)

You would cast it and if there was enemies at:
50% of the range, they would get knockdown and have a 75% heat proc
for the rest of the range, they will get a stagger and a 25% heat proc
(im not talking about dmg here cuz i want a mechanic not an actual nuke)

For the augment i will keep the initial idea

50% of the range they will get a knock down and a 25% heat proc
the remainer of the range, they will also get a knockdown but not heat proc chance

The idea i want to give with this is, Either this ability is a panic button (un-augmented) or a controled cc (augmented)

 

 

World on fire staying as it is, but giving it synergies and changes:

Spoiler

 

People have already spoken on how much the nerf on this ability kills Ember, but theres the problem of low lvl missions, In my opinion, ember shouldnt suffer because of it when theres way worse frames that can do it faster and better, with that said, this is what i propose

Fuctions the same as this nerf but 2 things, range and drain

Range is buffed from -50% to -20%
The drain is buffed from 2x to 0x
The reason for this is that, ember is a Caster, and needs both range and low drain to make use of abilities and survive. but i will give a +drain counter further on the ability

Wof Builds a meter (I will call it Fire for the sake of writing)

On deactivation of wof, each 25% of the meter is converted into 1 stack
The stacks work as an incentive to not use Wof 24/7 but not forget about it completly

The stacks are used whenever you cast one of the 4 abilities:

-Fire wisp (Fireball) If theres is at least 1 Stack available, it will be consumed while granting Fire wisp to grant +10% (additive) of Dmg reduction (this will work with the agument giving your teammates more dmg reduction, but it will cost 1 stack per teammate)
-Accelarant   If theres at least 3 stacks, the duration is increased by 50% and so is the casting speed
-Napalm (Fire blast) If theres at least 5 stacks, Napalm will leave a fiery ground (Like hallowed ground) that ground will have 50% of the range of Napalm and a base 10 sec duration (duration mods will increase it)
-World on Fire   If you have 10 stacks, Wof will have 2.5x drain, no Range debuff on cast. Every 5 secs it will cause a explosion that will cause a scorch area (around 10m base, 10 secs duration) for the duration of the cast

And the Augment will be pretty much the same but changing a few things Wof itself

Every 2 seconds that the ability is casted, a heat wave will be casted, this wave will 100% panic enemies with heat procs but also remove 1% of enemy armor
As the ability is running, the more range it gets, but the more drain it gets too.

What i wish this ability to be, is the bread and butter of Ember, yes you can still clear low lvl missions, But so can other frames with way more efficency, I want the rework to be a way for ember to join the "I can scale" frame group.
Again, giving 2 options with the augment in hand.
Having wof for stacking "Fire" or having some cc and debuffing at the cost of more drain over time (you gotta know when to cc and not spam cc)

 

 

Some Final notes for who actualy read this:
Yes, some of these could be too op, but yet again, its suggestions, the ideas could be cool and all it needs are value changes.
Hopefully someone likes the ideas and thx for reading you beautiful tenno!

Edited February 10, 2018 by An8rchy
Colors \o/ Also, hi there ;3 wanna farm some... mutagen

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Volt is the new Ember. Ember was nerfed for pretty much no reason and now her CC in high level gameplay is pretty much dead as well. Meanwhile Volt clears a whole Hydron wave in 2 ability casts.

[Kaokasalis]

11 hours ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:

Personally, I think that the previous iteration of tailwind as both more controlable and had better duration scaling for how far it went. Just reverting the ability to the old version would be better as we have actually lost the ability to take off instantly and thus actually LOST functionality with the new one. It feels awful, almost as rigid and uncontrollable as parkour 1.0.

Cant speak for duration scalling but they are pretty much the same in regards to control as you just go straight with little to ability to steer Tail Wind during its duration. Also not sure what you mean by us having lost the ability to instantly take off. You can still fly off in the direction you need just by activating Tail Wind. If your refering to how you have to charge Tail Wind now then thats just for the hover part. If you wanna go straight up just aim up and activate Tail Wind.

Tornado feedback

Tornados are as terrible as ever. They still driftt off over cliffs or into walls and gets lost really easily. Apart from needing a huge improvement to their speed they also need better targeting with how often they get lost. Enemies are still only held patheticly for a few seconds before being flung out making it one of the most random and inaccurate ultimates in the game. Give them the ability to actively target enemies on the ground and follow them in a effort to suck them up.

Either that or make it one huge Tornado that Zephyr can control easily.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Hieracon

[Brodh]

First of all I love so many of these changes and I just want to say thanks.

However-

I feel that Ember's just isn't hitting the mark. You can still accomplish the same map clearing with a combination of efficiency and recasting while aim gliding, never really slowing down. Her 1 and 3 are pretty universally regarded as underwhelming. She needs more love imo.

I wish Zephyr's Airburst had a bit more flight speed, it can be tough to use at any sort of range. Maybe the flight speed could scale with strength, or it could be effected by augmented turbulence. 

 

 

Thanks again

[Junk_Lover]

Zephyr's Tail Wind:

It seems to be fun now, BUT - I think when you are in air and aim down on the ground, it would be awesome and a  good idea to have a bullseye on said ground, so you would clearly see where you will land your dive bomb and how large will be the splash damage. Oh, and depending on the height from which you dive - different size of splash damage: The higher you are in air, the bigger bullseye will be, and so the bigger splash will be. Maybe add a ragdoll effect if enemy is not killed by divebomb, but not sure about it. Also - maybe somehow mark the enemies while you aim your dive bomb, because for example, in the Plains you can hardly see anyone on the ground from high height.

But anyway - thanks for update!

[Olianu]

I hope some constructive feedback doesn't get lost in the sea of salt.  Not in particular order, but I would like to give my two cents on the changes.  (haven't tried them all, so could come back with more editing later.)

 

Atlas:  Rubble Mechanic is something Atlas desperately needed, but the pick up range feels a little short, in particular since  it's based on the rubble that Atlas walks over, there's been issues with flying enemies leaving floating rubble, leaving it untouchable to be added to his armor/health.  It would be nice to have a slightly wider range of pick up, but outside of that, good job in helping this boy out.

Chroma:  For as much controversy as Vexing armor's change was, I have to say I am content with it.  It's a team buff and I can recast vexing armor so I don't lose my accumulated stacks.  The damage may not be as outrageous as it used to be, but I find having it as a continuous buff that I can recast on the fly is far better. The scaling damage from Vexing Armor/Spectral Scream is a very nice buff, watching the damage rack up from 290 to over 1000 from just intensify alone is very good and being able to freely run around to actively kill things instead of that focused crawl is very nice.

Ember:  For the most part, the change doesn't feel like the worst, Fireball's napalm effect makes me happy and the mechanic for Fire Blast is cool,  My issue with the fire blast one is the ring of fire itself is only at hip height so you have to aim low or crouch and shoot to get the fire proc added from what I've seen.  And the the ability of the hour:  World on Fire.  The changes to his power will always stay controversial and hated by a group, but I think it's for he most part fair.  You tried to cover two major gripes that most players had about her.  While I do find some units like Heavy Gunners to be a problem, Accelerant helps a little bit, but it does get dicey.  Fire has always been a finicky element proc to use as it feels more exclusive to taking on Infested, but I do like the concept on where you've taken Ember.

Gara:  THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!  I missed actually having all three defensive measures of her kit viable in sorties!!!!  Don't touch Mass Vertrify nor any of her other abilities unless there's a glitch that appears.

Mirage:  WHOEVER DECIDED TO FINALLY HAVE ECLIPSE AND HALL OF MIRRORS SYNCHRONIZE, THANK YOU SO MUCH!  That was a major thorn in my side about mirage for YEARS!  Thank you for getting around to that.

Zephyr:  Her Kit tweak is exactly what she needed.  I have always had fun playing with Zephyr from the day I picked her up and she's getting to a good spot.  My only critique I could give on her is buffing her Energy pool as she's a squishy caster with only 100 energy and 15 armor.  She is by far *NOT* a rage candidate especially when you take into account her Turbulence contradicts the mod.

Mag:  This change you did to her is a very nice Quality of life touch.  I am LOVING the new Polarize Augment jamming enemy weapons for a time as it helps with Crowd Control much better!  And improving the speed of her casting of crush {along with putting the shields/over shields} makes it feel a lot smoother in transition.

Volt:  Not much to really say outside of thank you for giving him this buff.  It's something he needed badly.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Olianu

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Olianu:

Chroma:  For as much controversy as Vexing armor's change was, I have to say I am content with it.  It's a team buff and I can recast vexing armor so I don't lose my accumulated stacks.  The damage may not be as outrageous as it used to be, but I find having it as a continuous buff that I can recast on the fly is far better.  (will test spectral scream later today)

 

 

yeah dmg is okay.. but they nerfed his armor aswell. mesa is a better tank than chroma now.

[LascarCapable]

A little bit of feedback on Atlas :

• Consider allowing the Rubble to be attracted by Sentinel's vaccum. It can be a big hassle to gather everything. Make us lose some precious armor time.
• The new Petrify is pretty nice IMO, but maybe Atlas should be allowed to move while chanelling it (like if the ability was one-handed, but not quite). It would allow him to close the distance to melee range while casting the ability, reducing the time where the player is stuck not doing anything. It would be a really cool quality of life change.
• When casting Rumblers, Atlas can petrify enemies around him. But that range is INCREDIBLY SMALL. Consider raising it a little bit.
• Consider making Tectonic's bulwark size affected by power range, as well as the size of the rock.

Edited February 10, 2018 by D20

[Colyeses]

I like the change to Zephyr's 1. No longer having that ability split over two slots is a great boon, and the ability to hover is quite nice, and somewhat fun to play with.

However, her new 2 does reiterate, for me, that Warframes need mechanical ways to amplify their abilities, similar to Nidus' Virulence. Non-ultimate damage abilities just don't scale past level 25 or so, and ultimates barely scratch... Perhaps 40?

Zephyr should get stacks which amplify her ability damage for staying airborne. 1 stack per five seconds off the ground, while losing 1 stack per three seconds while on the ground. Every stack increases her ability damage by a set percentage.

There's a few ways you could take such a stacking mechanism for Ember, perhaps in a way that allows her to be mostly reverted to what she was. Ember could get bonus stacks for casting abilities in rapid succession, or for firing her weaponry. Alternatively, she could simply passively gain stacks over time. This way, the initial damage of WoF can be reduced to make it work only on -very- low level missions, without compromising the range and thus the effectiveness of a CC based build, while -also- improving her lategame scaling.

Chroma could gain stacks from credits collected, and those stacks could, in turn, boost the potential of his Spectral Scream and Effigy.

It's nice that some of these abilities have gotten some mechanical improvements, but when my friend tested Ember on the survival against infested Gift of the Lotus alert, his fireball didn't even get a scratch on most enemies, even when fully charged. This should really get addressed, as it can add a new layer of depth and potential to future Warframe designs, too. 

They just don't compete with weaponry right now, and a fix for that is long overdue.