Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

soma prime is no longer in its pace its barely an upgrade to the soma it needs a buff with all these weapons having 30% crit chance like baza telos boltor prima gorgon its 3x crit multiplier isnt enough even the prisma grakata has higher base dmg now i would suggest 14-15 dmg and status chance 

boltor prime lookes worse than telos now since crit is better for mid teir content which is the majority right now 20% was fair

burston prime need 2x crit or higher base dmg to justify the mr 12 

all that aside the ammo max buffs are pretty nice they were much needed maybe you can look into that for more weapons overall a very welcome change.

 

[Azamagon]

To correct some errors and undocumented changes:

* Latron Wraith used to have 20% status, not 15%. So the nerf down to 14% is actually quite severe.

* Zhuge, as per the notes, was left untouched statswise, yet it got reduced to 10% crit (from 20%), which is REALLY severe.

* Twin Grakatas, as per the notes, was left untouched statswise, yet it got buffed to 2,7x critmulti (from 2,5x 2,0x). Why?

* Boar Prime -> Maybe change its very incorrect description? *cough cough*

* AkJagara -> You basicly removed all of its recoil (which is awesome!) and seemingly reduced its accuracy quite a lot (not so great). Why weren't these changes mentioned?

* Despair & Kunai -> Since when did you nerf their accuracy to be just as bad as the Spira series? (At least Hikou is still doing ok). Can't you make them all as accurate as they used to be, like the Hikou ones?

Changes I don't agreed with (in one way or another), or I feel are insufficiently changed:

* Attica -> Why nerf damage and increase critmulti? It's a (cross)bow, reliability is more important than random damagespikes. Higher critchance would've been nicer (like, 35%+)

* Daikyu -> Where's the first proposed 30% critchance? I mean, you nerfed the basedamage after all...

* Grinlok -> Its changes are great... but it still has two REALLY crippling weaknesses: Very low critchance and a RoF slower than all current Snipers! Imo, I'd trade the increased critmulti for a better critchance (34%?) in a heartbeat. Higher RoF would be nice too, ofc.
Honestly though, what's your obsession with high critmultipliers and low critchances, at least on low RoF weapons? It's aggravating design, really.

* Latron Wraith -> NOOOOOOOOOOO! T_T What did you do to its old beautiful and punchy sounds? *sigh*
Not only that, but what about its overly long reload? The recoil still being so massive, even when aiming? The relatively small magazine? The Prime now being 100% superior (except for RoF, which is pointless considering the severe recoil they still have)? The wrongly overnerfed status? It needs something tiny bit more, imo. For example:
Latron Wraith -> 20 mag, 1.8 second reload, 30% crit, reduced recoil while aiming. Keep the overnerfed status if necessary.
And, to be fair to the Latron Prime:
Latron Prime -> 18 mag, 1.8 second reload, reduced recoil while aiming, innately silent (as per its sounds).

* Paracyst -> Still missing something. Example; Make primary fire have a slight AoE on the projectile impacts, and make altfire a Nidus' Larva esque shot instead (with limitted enemies pulled in, and without a lingering grasp), so its more different from Harpak. Or, if going with something simpler; Maybe give it a bit better critstats?

* Talons & Castanas -> That horizontal spread... HOLY MOLY is it AWEFUL! Can you tighten this by... you know, a LOT? Also, considering how tedious these weapons feel to use, can you please remove selfdamage from them? They just don't feel very Warframe-friendly in general.

* Azima -> Altfire is still nigh useless you know? If they had mild autoaim (within say 30 degree angles from each muzzle or so), it'd at least be semi-useful in specific situations.

* Cestra family -> Still too long to reload AND massive recoil. One or the other would be fair, but not both.

* Kraken & Seer -> These really ought to have their reloadspeeds cut in half. And an upgraded Kraken (i.e. Vaykor/Wraith/Prisma), when? I'd REALLY like one, as its a cool and unique-feeling pistol which is sorely underloved.

* Viper family -> These pistols are wildly inconsistent in terms of accuracy and complimentary stats. You sure you didn't mix up the accuracy between Twin Vipers and Twin Vipers Wraith (swapping those two would make a LOT more sense)? And you sure you want the regular versions to be better at status than the Wraith versions?

* Snipers overall -> Still waiting for reliable crits and reasonable reloadtimes (Vectis Prime aside, which is the undisputed Sniper King now), even if it comes with some kind of loss to critmultipliers or whatever.

* Snipetron -> So... 3.5 second reload is gonna remain? So it's intentionally meant to be an obnoxius gun to level?

 

Special notices of changes I particularly liked:

* Dera Vandal -> The recoil increase is so tiny, I probably wouldn't have noticed it if you didn't mention it. Thankfully :D
Everything about this gun (except maybe the slightly too low critvalues, imo, an increase to that would be so fitting for it and its perfect accuracy) is awesome now!

* Supra Vandal -> YIKES! Beast of a gun now! Same build on this, compared to the Dera Vandal, and the Supra is clearly superior (Dera is more accurate and has a quicker reload, but the Supra's strengths more than makes up for that).

* Tiberon -> WOW! Just... wow! Amazing gun now.

* Telos Boltor (& Boltor Prime) -> ... Well, Soma Prime, you are officially relegated to clean the garbage! xD I think the Telos Boltor is possibly a TAD too strong for an assault rifle, especially considering its massive magsize and really low recoil. Anyone else think the same?

Edited February 13, 2018 by Azamagon
Corrected my Twin Grakatas mistake. Thanks for the correct value, Darcnysswolfe :)

[TheLivingExile]

Could you guys please change the Staticor back to its old mastery rank of 5? I'm stuck at mastery 5 and need to get through the sedna junction, and the only mastery 5 weapon I know of that is slightly good is the Jat Kittag.

 

Yours Kindly, TheLivingExile

Edited February 11, 2018 by TheLivingExile
Spelling Error

[DarcnyssWolfe]

28 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

To correct some errors and undocumented changes:

* Zhuge, as per the notes, was left untouched statswise, yet it got reduced to 10% crit (from 20%), which is REALLY severe.

* Twin Grakatas, as per the notes, was left untouched statswise, yet it got buffed to 2,7x critmulti (from 2,5x). Why?
 

As for the Twins, they were originally 2.0x, like the single Grakata. Honestly welcome the change, gives them better dps for the inefficient lead wall they throw out. That and status is garbage on them, raw damage all they have. Remember, they shoot 2 pellets for 2 ammo a shot, making their damage a sad 10 and 5% status per ammo.

[Madway7]

So I have some feedback on some of the weapons, while a lot of the changes were great (thank you again for them), some of them were... less than optimal.

 

Let's start with the Hind, I won't really ask for buffs to its stats as I suspect the Hind Wraith will improve upon them greatly someday, but for now my issue as I have already pointed out multiple times is the alt fire.

It just doesn't work for that weapon. It kinda works for the Tenora and just barely for the Euphona, but in general I'm pretty sure most will agree that its annoying to have to press the alt fire for every single shot.

 

Now the Ogris, the weapon most describe as too much risk for too little benefit. I was sincerely disappointed by its latest changes. Sure better charge rate is good, but when the main issue of the weapon is that its damage just doesnt warrant use I think you missed the point.

I personally feel a rocket launcher should be able to do massive damage which well yes poses a risk to teh player, but also should be able to obliterate enemies in very few shots.

What this change tells me is that instead of planning my shots and waiting for the right moment I should just barrage the enemy with rockets until they die, which I feel missed the point of a rocket launcher.

So my suggestions stay as they were, similar to the Sechura Penta buffs, just increase its crit chance and maybe its multiplier too. If the future wraith version will have this. I feel like it should just improve on these stats instead of being the Ogris we could have had all along.

 

Bug:

Also not sure if this is known already, but equiping Tether Grenades on the Sechura Penta seems to revert its stats back to how they were before the update.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Madway7

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Could Sobek get 2% more status chance so it can reach 100% status with 3 dual stat status mods and Shattering justice. Currently reaches 95.6% (75.6%+20% Justice), 29% would keep the augment relevant as 3 dual status mods would give it 81.2% status, allow shattering to bring it to 100%, but prevent 4 dual status from doing so (98.6%). Simple change that would make a huge difference on the gun.

[YandereWaifu]

20 hours ago, Cradicias said:

Mot is indeed the place. Seems a bit busted considering enemies of the same level in different maps can't do the same thing.

the enemies there do more damage per level than in other places on purpose, i think i recall a youtuber saying it was a spot for veterans who wanted a challenge and liked the void system to go to derp around in

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Could Sobek get 2% more status chance so it can reach 100% status with 3 dual stat status mods and Shattering justice. Currently reaches 95.6% (75.6%+20% Justice), 29% would keep the augment relevant as 3 dual status mods would give it 81.2% status, allow shattering to bring it to 100%, but prevent 4 dual status from doing so (98.6%). Simple change that would make a huge difference on the gun.

It would make a huge difference. That's why it isn't the way you want it. Sobek, with the current changes, is WAY more powerful. Changes put it on top tier easily. Changes you suggest would break it.

[NovusKnight]

5 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Could Sobek get 2% more status chance so it can reach 100% status with 3 dual stat status mods and Shattering justice. Currently reaches 95.6% (75.6%+20% Justice), 29% would keep the augment relevant as 3 dual status mods would give it 81.2% status, allow shattering to bring it to 100%, but prevent 4 dual status from doing so (98.6%). Simple change that would make a huge difference on the gun.

my friend, Sobek _CAN_ hit 100% status now thanks to Scattered justice. this also happens to make the shotgun explode often, healing you and opening all nearby enemies for melee finishers. it is an amazing gun currently, considering how it scales, because it can shoot rather fast, strip armor with ease, CC effortlessly, heal you, open up finishers, reload at a survivable speed (it used to be FOUR SECONDS!!!) and even cause AoE infinitely-scaling corrosive explosions with its second augment, Acid Shells. it's an amazing gun now, if used properly. maybe on par with Strun Wraith. maybe. I need further testing.

[Cradicias]

4 hours ago, YandereWaifu said:

the enemies there do more damage per level than in other places on purpose, i think i recall a youtuber saying it was a spot for veterans who wanted a challenge and liked the void system to go to derp around in

As a veteran, I can say that Challenge =/= getting one-shotted by the standard dudes with shotguns. They aren't even the harder enemies.

[N64Gamefreak]

• I don't agree with Supra & Supra Vandal being crit weapons now, but the increase in status chance is fine.  Entropy Burst will need a buff, because now it barely increases status chance more than any of the 60% elemental + 60% status chance mods.
• Grinlok buff is great!  Despair and Twin Gremlins too.
• Please increase Snipetron's crit multiplier, or balance the crit chance & crit multiplier ratio: a 30% crit chance with only a 1.5x multiplier doesn't make much sense.  A small reload speed increase would be helpful too.  Maybe increase Snipetron's magazine size to 6, and Snipetron Vandal's magazine to 8?
• Could we get reload speed increases and/or larger magazines for Latron Wraith and Latron Prime?
• Secura Dual Cestra doesn't need to be a crit weapon, but a faster reload speed would be nice.

[LokiTheCondom]

As a fan of Despair, I find the crit and status buff to be a very welcoming change.

May be sounding greedy, but I wish somehow it has innate punch through or slash procs to fulfill its description of "have a mono-filament edge, sharp enough to penetrate a Warframe."

[Glitshy]

I'm not sure what the point of the Attica change is, did they feel like it was too good? I get the MR increase, but the stat changes are an overall nerf. 3x instead of 2x crit damage means a 50% damage increase at a theoretical 100% crit chance, while the decrease in damage from 125 to 80 means a 36% decrease, 1.5 x 0.64 = 0.96, so less DPS than before and that's assuming one has 100% crit chance. It's only a buff for people who have argon scope (as they have more than 100% crit chance and therefore get more profit out of the higher crit damage with orange crits) and a nerf for everybody else, as one can only reach 62.5% crit chance with point strike and 74.5% with point strike + critical delay. Why nerf it?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Glitshy

[GA-Bulletproof]

Please hotfix Sarpa. After a while it stops working:

 

[Madway7]

6 hours ago, N64Gamefreak said:

• I don't agree with Supra & Supra Vandal being crit weapons now, but the increase in status chance is fine.  Entropy Burst will need a buff, because now it barely increases status chance more than any of the 60% elemental + 60% status chance mods.

I'm probably biased since my riven has -75% status chance, but I feel its more than fine where it is since the syndicate mod also gives the benefit of giving you energy.

[Unseen_blade99]

The telos akbolto could use a reload time buff. 2.6s is way too long, twice of the akbolto prime for a 10 bullets is not that worth it imo. Also such long reload time make the gun feels bad to use, as if you spend most of the time reloading the weapon rather than firing it.

Same problem with the twin wraith viper, where a reload time or magazine capacity buff would be much appreciated.

[StafM5]

AkJagara
Mastery Rank increased from 3 to 8
Converted to burst fire that fires two rounds simultaneously
Status chance increased from 20% to 28%
Critical chance increased from 5% to 6%
Mag size increased from 24 to 36
 

Plz bring back the recoil the sound and the DMG PLZ  make the magazine 24 again the 36 was a nerf don't trow the my most loved weapon in the game in the trash i use this hell

of a weapon so much i saw the change and i told my self at last they gave one of the forgotten ones a buff and then i went to simulacrum to test the change and i hear ''prr prr'' instead of the clear almost like a CLAP sound from each bullet .Now you need to use 13 rounds in this build to kill a corrupted bombard now i need almost a 2 magazines to kill one ONE and i got a powerful riven on this HOW AND WHY?!?!?!??! even with the status buff .......

[DarcnyssWolfe]

11 hours ago, Leqesai said:

It would make a huge difference. That's why it isn't the way you want it. Sobek, with the current changes, is WAY more powerful. Changes put it on top tier easily. Changes you suggest would break it.

 

10 hours ago, NovusKnight said:

my friend, Sobek _CAN_ hit 100% status now thanks to Scattered justice. this also happens to make the shotgun explode often, healing you and opening all nearby enemies for melee finishers. it is an amazing gun currently, considering how it scales, because it can shoot rather fast, strip armor with ease, CC effortlessly, heal you, open up finishers, reload at a survivable speed (it used to be FOUR SECONDS!!!) and even cause AoE infinitely-scaling corrosive explosions with its second augment, Acid Shells. it's an amazing gun now, if used properly. maybe on par with Strun Wraith. maybe. I need further testing.

Fair enough, lets leave it with a single viable build with no room for diversity. Point blank, Hells chamber, Acid Rounds, 4x 60/60 status mods, and Shattering Justice. Remove any of that and they might as well not have touched it. One high tier viable build. Or give it 2% more status and open up a slot for diversity sake.

[Azamagon]

34 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

 

Fair enough, lets leave it with a single viable build with no room for diversity. Point blank, Hells chamber, Acid Rounds, 4x 60/60 status mods, and Shattering Justice. Remove any of that and they might as well not have touched it. One high tier viable build. Or give it 2% more status and open up a slot for diversity sake.

While I don't disagreed with you (considering shotgun status current state), wouldn't it be better to fix shotgun status? Meaning, so it works just like it does on Quartakk (and now, the AkJagara), which is to say that the status % shown is the chance for EACH pellet.

Then shotguns don't need to have those "just right"-chances to be viable for statusbuilds. Not to mention, it'd be way easier for non-mathematicians to understand how status on shotguns work. AND they don't need to make pseudo-shotguns (like Quartakk and AkJagara) become burst-weapons to function well with status.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Azamagon

[DarcnyssWolfe]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

While I don't disagreed with you (considering shotgun status current state), wouldn't it be better to fix shotgun status? Meaning, so it works just like it does on Quartakk (and now, the AkJagara), which is to say that the status % shown is the chance for EACH pellet.

Then shotguns don't need to have those "just right"-chances to be viable for statusbuilds. Not to mention, it'd be way easier for non-mathematicians to understand how status on shotguns work. AND they don't need to make pseudo-shotguns (like Quartakk and AkJagara) become burst-weapons to function well with status.

Nice in theory, and your right that would be the way to go about things. However if we look a DE's history we can see we can see the likelihood of such a change could be anywhere from next week (very unlikely) to several years from now (far more likely).Keep in mind, such a change in shotgun status calculation throw the balance of shotguns all over the place due to previously garbage status/high damage shotguns getting a serious status buff from it, and shotguns who's damage is borderline pathetic but can hit 100%, allowing them to apply status unrivaled. Whereas here and now while they are in the "mood" of tweaking stats on all the guns, it's a great and proper time to suggest a minor % buff further, fixing Sobek's issue in the mean time. Again, would love them to rework shotgun status, but I've learned to never hold my breath with DE.

Edited February 11, 2018 by DarcnyssWolfe

[Acersecomic]

Dual Toxocyst is a cyst on secondary weapons now. 2 seconds buff?!?!??! WHO THOUGHTS OF THAT?! WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA?!?!?

Fix it, this is stupid! I really can't think of any other feedback for this other than what I just said, the change is just that fkin stupid.

It completely ruins the experience of shooting a weapon. And while the mechanic is cool, the Frenzy timeout is pathetic and sad. Is there a way to prolong the duration?

I mean just... wtf... what was the thinking behind it? We're not aimbots. Not to mention it's enough to turn a corner or even bhind you to aquire a new target and you lost your frienzy. It's pathetic.

If Dual Toxocyst was some kind of a good weapon, sure. But it's not, and in this state it's garbage.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Acersecomic

[TotalFail1232]

 

TL,DR: Buzlok stat changes are very nice. Buzlok’s gimmick got worse from the shot speed increase. The gimmick could be much less frustrating and actually increase damage output if the secondary fire delay got removed/reduced.

Also, the Akjagara changes make it INCREDIBLY ammo hungry at higher levels.

Main Text:

 

Hello, I am one of the, like, 6 Tenno that uses the Buzlok which got quite a few changes in the big weapon overhaul. They are mostly positive but don't really improve Buzlok's gimmick. The niche of the Buzlok is that the secondary fire is a tracer that does very little damage but causes primary shots to home in on a target hit with said tracer. The weapon gets a flat 50% increase to crit change on a marked target. Let's look over the changes and see how they affect the weapon.

 

-Mastery Rank increased from 9 to 11

Not much to be said.

 

-Decreased recoil while aiming

I really love this change as you can actually aim in with the weapon and hit targets at a distance (though this, in turn, decreases the effectiveness of the tracer) because your screen doesn't shake like a damn brick in a washing machine.

 

-(undocumented) Crit chance increased from 15% -> 23%

This is a very nice change as with just a point strike, you get 57.5% crit chance you will have 107.5% crit chance on a market target, increasing the consistency significantly.

 

-(undocumented) Status chance increased from 10% -> 21%

This also seems a very nice change, though I haven't played around with status on the Buzlok (as I focus on the gimmick) but more status doesn't hurt.

 

-Increased projectile speed for primary and secondary fire

This one, on the outside, seems like a straight positive, but it makes utilising the secondary fire at close distances much worse. Increasing the shot speed definitely helps at long distance as it was sometimes very difficult to lead shots (especially with the pre-update accuracy); this again takes away from the utility of the secondary (that you don't have to worry about aim at long distances if you hit the tracer). However, the speed at which the bullets home in/turn did not change, meaning that shots more frequently will curve around behind your target and miss, which totally worsens the gimmick if you still have to be pretty accurate when you hit the secondary fire. Doing cool Buzlok things like hitting infested Ancients behind a group of chargers is not very feasible anymore.

I am a strong believer that some changes to the Buzlok could mean that the gimmick is actually useful – *although we would also need more encounters with enemies that have lots of health and not just invulnerability as the weapon has actually really good stats and a strong riven disposition, DE plz.*

First and foremost, make the homing better or the same as it was before. It would be best to just keep the current shot speed and increase the curve speed of the homing shots, but, if that is too difficult to implement, revert back the primary shot speed and keep/increase the secondary shot speed so it still has consistent accuracy.

However, there is one more problem that plagues the gimmick of the Buzlok.

The delay.

A very annoying part of trying to use the Buzlok’s secondary fire is the long period of delay after you fire it. You cannot fire in this delay (probably around 6 shots worth of time) and this makes it incredibly frustrating as:

1. It is time you’re not spend killing.

2. The key press for fire won’t register only after the delay finishes.

3. If the tracer misses, it feels like the last second was pointless.

I suggest that either removing/significantly decreasing the delay (like they did with Vectis’ reload delay, which was very positively received) or allowing the Tenno to shoot both at the same time.

This will streamline the gimmick into normal gameplay as shooting the tracer would not have significant risk in terms of the players damage output and will still reward a player’s ability to use the tracer effectively in a big group (from the crit change increase).

Save the Buzlok.

Side note – after you hit a marked target, punch though will not work which I don’t really get. Even before the shot speed increase, I don’t think the turn speed was enough to hit normal enemies (don’t know about big bosses) and it’s not like this doesn’t exist (Mag + Lanka, though I don’t know if this still works with Lanka’s increased shot speed) and I don’t feel like it would be OP.

Other side note – anyone else feel like the Buzlok should be classed as a sniper? Sure it has a high fire rate, but it’s look and the tracer gimmick make it seem more like a sniper rather than rifle.

Another side note - the long reload speed is also a bit annoying,

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by TotalFail1232

[0utlier]

I haven't tried out many of the weapons from the list yet, but so far I have enjoyed the buff to the Prisma Grakata. A 36% damage increase is helpful for high-level play and I have a riven which can exploit that well with -recoil.

The Sancti Castanas now also seem viable for high-level play thanks to that rework. I have already killed myself several times, even when playing as Inaros!

One weapon you might like to revisit is the Mutalist Quanta, but I am hoping that perhaps you are reviewing it with the other Quanta beam weapons at the moment? I feel that the primary fire is pretty much okay in terms of base damage output (25 damage/round at 10 rounds/second), but it could use an increase to its 2.5% crit chance; perhaps something small like up to 10% considering the effect of firing through the secondary fire's projectile. With regard to the secondary fire, perhaps altering its physics and/or shape to make it easier to manipulate would be interesting. I find that hitting the ball with a melee weapon causes it to fly off randomly so that I can no longer shoot through it; this also affects the explosion damage, which has a small radius and in mid-air often does not hit enemies. Giving the ball more projectile speed to increase its base range might also help in spreading radiation status into a crowd - on many occasions I have launched the secondary fire around ~5m from an enemy and it still manages to miss them. I just feel that the weapon overall lacks the ability to properly demonstrate its uniqueness and value over other primary weapons at it currently stands, a shame because I feel it has some interesting mechanics over most primaries. I encourage you to review it please.

Edited February 11, 2018 by 0utlier

[VRKestrel]

Bonjour from (undisclosed location),

these changes are (mostly) really, really amazing and definitely needed. Great job 

Some small things, I think could be slightly improved:

- Maybe increase the Bows' charge speed even further? => For example: Increase charge speed of "regular bows" to 0,4 and the Daikyu's zo 0,75. 

- Slightly increase Akmagnus's crit or status chance (while keeping the other stat the same) => 27% crit chance at 22% status or 30% status at 22% crit chance. (to help consistency)

Other than that I'm really, really happy with this update. It definitely brought some new life to some old weapons from "back in the day"  Much appreciated.

Keep up the good work! 

 

[N64Gamefreak]

7 hours ago, Madway7 said:

I'm probably biased since my riven has -75% status chance, but I feel its more than fine where it is since the syndicate mod also gives the benefit of giving you energy.

My riven has -91.6% crit chance