The new ember isnt that bad, but only if...

[soshootso]

Easy. Instead of 100% World on Fire damage, make it +100% strength, so it affects all her abilities. Since DE applied the x2 energy consumption, this seems to be deserved at the very least, putting her back to equal-ish terms of how she used to be performance wise.

Since DE's intend was to balance ember so shes not being used as a "AFK farm" warframe. I believe its not to nerf her performance. 

Spoiler

 

The x2 energy consumption is definitely a nerf.

But the biggest nerf is accelerant. You can no longer have a decent range (say about 18-20m at 100% world on fire), and have a high accelerant multiplier.

You will have about 8-10m at 100% world on fire, if you want to goto higher levels, which then will bring ember into point blank range. So yes, that does mean you need to recast a lot. Which becomes a micro management thing and renders the mod "Energy Conversion" almost practically useless, with the ~15 seconds time to transition to 100% WoF.

 

 

[SteamlordD]

Her trashcan passive could be changed to give her some kind of survivability instead, like an Overheat gauge that fills as she does heat damage, drains over time, and provides damage resistance, promoting active play (which was the goal of the WoF nerf) and providing sustainability.

[soshootso]

1 minute ago, SteamlordD said:

Her trashcan passive could be changed to give her some kind of survivability instead, like an Overheat gauge that fills as she does heat damage, drains over time, and provides damage resistance, promoting active play (which was the goal of the WoF nerf) and providing sustainability.

I do agree they need to buff somethig to make up for her low range, but since DE classifies ember as a "caster", giving her more surviability would go against their first reason to remove the overheat feature.

They should just buff accelerant damage multiplier, explained in my post, so its somewhat balanced.

[Vanille]

Energy consumption change made literally no difference. from 0.75/sec to 1.5/sec on a 630 energy pool. I casted it as soon as I loaded on survival mission and ran with it for 30 mins until my squad wanted to extract, my energy didn't go below 500-550 energy in 30 mins, pretty much just like before.

[Duduminador]

People are still gonna whyne a lot about this, it's like fighting a storm with a fan. But I'm droping my 2 cents anyways.

Get over the power domination. It was bad design. Put simply like that. This "Power fantasy" got completly out of control. If anything, all the nerfs are coming way too late in Warframe's life.

On no game out there are you supposed to have abilities that defy the relevance of any other damage output. Warframe specially falls on that group, you have other abilities. other weapons. All exagerated types of synergies. And people compare abilities and weapon damage as completly irrelevant things and forget that you are supposed to use all of them to defeat your mobs.

[SteamlordD]

5 minutes ago, soshootso said:

I do agree they need to buff somethig to make up for her low range, but since DE classifies ember as a "caster", giving her more surviability would go against their first reason to remove the overheat feature.

They should just buff accelerant damage multiplier, explained in my post, so its somewhat balanced.

Accelerant's damage multiplier is fantastic, it really doesn't need changed. Add the heat damage bonus from Fire Blast and it's kind of ridiculous. She's become a weapons platform frame, buffing damage with heat to a high degree. The multipliers aren't unreasonable though, given that almost every enemy in the game is resistant to raw heat damage. With Fire Blast being a point-defense style ability, she needs a way to hold the line. Either Fire Blast's ring should act as a shield, or she should have a passive that increases her durability.

[Foefaller]

1 hour ago, SteamlordD said:

Accelerant's damage multiplier is fantastic, it really doesn't need changed. Add the heat damage bonus from Fire Blast and it's kind of ridiculous. She's become a weapons platform frame, buffing damage with heat to a high degree. The multipliers aren't unreasonable though, given that almost every enemy in the game is resistant to raw heat damage. With Fire Blast being a point-defense style ability, she needs a way to hold the line. Either Fire Blast's ring should act as a shield, or she should have a passive that increases her durability.

In fact, if you stack everything (Flash Accelerant, Accelerant debuff on enemy, shooting through Fire Blast wall) you're going to do enough additional raw damage to more than make up for the fact that it's all heat, even on lvl 100 enemies. Though you have to make sure to build your weapons with one non-heat combo element or with "natural" heat damage, otherwise the bonus damage from both will combo instead and won't take advantage of Accelerant.

As for damage resist. I'm ok with her being a bit fragile; I'd rather her passive changed so that it gives similar bonuses as it does now, but when you proc Heat on an enemy, not when Heat gets procced on you. Killing an enemy is the ultimate form of CC after all.

[SteamlordD]

50 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

In fact, if you stack everything (Flash Accelerant, Accelerant debuff on enemy, shooting through Fire Blast wall) you're going to do enough additional raw damage to more than make up for the fact that it's all heat, even on lvl 100 enemies. Though you have to make sure to build your weapons with one non-heat combo element or with "natural" heat damage, otherwise the bonus damage from both will combo instead and won't take advantage of Accelerant.

As for damage resist. I'm ok with her being a bit fragile; I'd rather her passive changed so that it gives similar bonuses as it does now, but when you proc Heat on an enemy, not when Heat gets procced on you. Killing an enemy is the ultimate form of CC after all.

Anything would be preferable to the passive she has. Being a bit fragile is fine I guess, but she falls somewhere just above Mag, and Mag is pretty much the floor of survivability.

[WhiteCr0w]

3 hours ago, Duduminador said:

People are still gonna whyne a lot about this, it's like fighting a storm with a fan. But I'm droping my 2 cents anyways.

Get over the power domination. It was bad design. Put simply like that. This "Power fantasy" got completly out of control. If anything, all the nerfs are coming way too late in Warframe's life.

On no game out there are you supposed to have abilities that defy the relevance of any other damage output. Warframe specially falls on that group, you have other abilities. other weapons. All exagerated types of synergies. And people compare abilities and weapon damage as completly irrelevant things and forget that you are supposed to use all of them to defeat your mobs.

Bravo. God damn I couldn't agree more.

It's a shame the changes came so late, but anyone sane will realize that they were needed. I actually like her much better now, and anyone complaining about the energy drain has no idea what they're doing. It's barely noticeable to me, and I've actually run a few missions where it was on 95% of the time. The complaints are overblown.

[askaninja]

The only real problem is people keep begging for nerf's that should never be done. People that complain and beg for something to be nerfed.. as if a benifit to a teammate hurts their performance is silly.. this is a team based game, not a zero sum game. One Frames/Weapon benifit is not to the loss of other Frame/Weapon. People who complain asking for "nerfs" or "balance" is the type of feedback that the Dev's should ignore if not criticize.

She was fine IMHO prior to the nerf since there were a bunch of enemies that had high resistance to heat damage. It's not like you could just stand there and kill everything without interacting as many people claim unless you were over geared on a low level planet... and by that token ANY maxed frame can easily go for an hour solo on any mercury mission with no real chance of failure... so if that is the complaint it is a silly argument. The way she is now I would cross her off my list of useful frames.

Edited February 10, 2018 by askaninja

[SordidDreams]

3 hours ago, askaninja said:

The way she is now I would cross her off my list of useful frames.

I wouldn't go that far. She's still extremely useful for exactly the thing she was nerfed for, namely blazing through low-level exterminates and such. And by "low-level" I mean the entire star chart, Hydron included.

The real nerf was to her Accelerant, not WoF. They upped the damage on WoF and reduced the range, so you just build for range at the expense of power strength to compensate and achieve the same result. Problem is that also screws up your Accelerant. Mine previously quintupled fire damage taken by enemies, now it only doubles it, and that makes a massive difference. In low-level missions where you don't need Accelerant, Ember's just as strong as ever. In high-level missions where you do need it, you're screwed. The update has totally failed to achieve its goal, i.e. prevent Ember from crushing low level missions, while making the problem with her, namely that she falls off too fast, even worse.

*slow clap*

Edited February 10, 2018 by SordidDreams

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

8 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

Energy consumption change made literally no difference. from 0.75/sec to 1.5/sec on a 630 energy pool. I casted it as soon as I loaded on survival mission and ran with it for 30 mins until my squad wanted to extract, my energy didn't go below 500-550 energy in 30 mins, pretty much just like before.

Did you go with max range and efficiency?  Did you have arcane energize on.  Just asking as I am on console and want to prepare ahead of time.

[GinKenshin]

8 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

Energy consumption change made literally no difference. from 0.75/sec to 1.5/sec on a 630 energy pool. I casted it as soon as I loaded on survival mission and ran with it for 30 mins until my squad wanted to extract, my energy didn't go below 500-550 energy in 30 mins, pretty much just like before.

Lol, why didn’t they just nerf the base range instead of overcomplicating this S#&$? XD 

 

  The best solution is still to scrap the ability and giving her a new one. It’s conceot is broken and it won’t work 

[Campaigner]

The change was supposedly to stop ember from clearing everything in low-level missions. 

Ember can still kill every low-level enemy by refreshing WoF every now and then so that will NOT change.

What WILL change is that Ember won't be end-game viable as firequake CC anymore.

That's a complete balancing failure in my eyes.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Campaigner

[KokoroWish]

Correction it was to stop her from clearing everything in low level missions while standing on top of the defence point, dancing. In low level defence and other defence objective based missions, the rest of the team might as well have AFKd. This particular change sorts out that problem by having Ember have to move around to do the clearing now.

And yes, by low level mission I mean basically the whole star chart bar some of the void. For other missions, like exterminates, she basically plays exactly the same, except thing now have to get closer to die.

Her 4 honestly needs to have an entire redesign, making it an active skill rather than a passive damage aura. As it is now, they need to ramp up the energy cost to Valkyr Hysteria levels.

Edited February 10, 2018 by KokoroWish

[Vanille]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

Did you go with max range and efficiency?  Did you have arcane energize on.  Just asking as I am on console and want to prepare ahead of time.

67% duration, 175% efficiency, 145% range, 200% strength with these mods:
CP + Power Drift + Primed Flow + Primed Continuity + Fleeting Expertise + Streamline + Intensify + Transient Fortitude + Stretch + Vitality (this last one is optional, just for some more survival and not get 1shot). Also no arcane energize.

[Shinigami_Greed]

Ember's better than she's ever been, she actually does visible damage to Sortie 3 enemies now.  So what if the range is worse on WoF?  I always wanted it lower anyways.  Strength+Efficiency builds are great fun now.  Hell, even her 1 can put in work now.

[Furyoushounen]

On 2/10/2018 at 11:45 AM, Shinigami_Greed said:

Ember's better than she's ever been, she actually does visible damage to Sortie 3 enemies now.  So what if the range is worse on WoF?  I always wanted it lower anyways.  Strength+Efficiency builds are great fun now.  Hell, even her 1 can put in work now.

I'll have whatever you are smoking please.

[jumbomikehotdog]

There was nothing wrong with ember to begin with. This is a wrong decision and you lot who like it are a minority. It wasn't broken. It was fine the way it was.

Besides, who hangs out in low level missions? isn't the whole point of games like this to be strong in higher levels? smh

[Shinigami_Greed]

1 hour ago, jumbomikehotdog said:

There was nothing wrong with ember to begin with. This is a wrong decision and you lot who like it are a minority. It wasn't broken. It was fine the way it was.

Besides, who hangs out in low level missions? isn't the whole point of games like this to be strong in higher levels? smh

Correction, this entire forum is a minority.

3 hours ago, Furyoushounen said:

I'll have whatever you are smoking please.

I'm sorry, PlayStyle is a very individualized drug, each person's version of it has to be tailored to them.

[Velveteen]

Naaah, just like when Valkyr got nerfed and I had to put up with the changes and try numerous builds and forma and reforma and whatnot now it's Embers time, cya press 4 to win hahahahaha.

[Velveteen]

On 2/10/2018 at 3:19 PM, KokoroWish said:

Correction it was to stop her from clearing everything in low level missions while standing on top of the defence point, dancing. In low level defence and other defence objective based missions, the rest of the team might as well have AFKd. This particular change sorts out that problem by having Ember have to move around to do the clearing now.

And yes, by low level mission I mean basically the whole star chart bar some of the void. For other missions, like exterminates, she basically plays exactly the same, except thing now have to get closer to die.

Her 4 honestly needs to have an entire redesign, making it an active skill rather than a passive damage aura. As it is now, they need to ramp up the energy cost to Valkyr Hysteria levels.

She can't handle the drain levels to be on par with Valkyr's hysteria lol

[(PSN)Nyxn607]

I've said it before and I will say it again.  People complaining about Ember's 4 change, are the ones that prefer to press 4 and AFK.  Her 4 was in need of a change, and it got a decent change imo.  They buffed the damage and increased the energy by a laughable number.  If people utilized her entire kit, instead of relying solely on her 4, they might actually realize the change was for the better.

[Ragnarok160]

On 2/9/2018 at 8:15 PM, SteamlordD said:

Her trashcan passive could be changed to give her some kind of survivability instead, like an Overheat gauge that fills as she does heat damage, drains over time, and provides damage resistance, promoting active play (which was the goal of the WoF nerf) and providing sustainability.

I think a good offset would be the overheat gauge would fill causing stat buffs but then consuming more energy the higher you go

[jumbomikehotdog]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Nyxn607 said:

I've said it before and I will say it again.  People complaining about Ember's 4 change, are the ones that prefer to press 4 and AFK.  Her 4 was in need of a change, and it got a decent change imo.  They buffed the damage and increased the energy by a laughable number.  If people utilized her entire kit, instead of relying solely on her 4, they might actually realize the change was for the better.

LOL. LOL again. How many missions can you afk in? Spy? Mobile defense? PoE bounties? Rescue? Sabotage? Hijack?

The only missions you can afk in is def (with a party) and survival (again with a party). Stop making it look like afk'ing is the norm. i actually haven't partied with anyone who afks ember. Ever. People who say ember users afk are prolly sh*t out of luck and did manage to party with one, but it's not the norm. it's impossible for ember to afk for a long time by itself because she will eventually run out of energy (even with energy related mods and sentinel vacuum).