Ember Changes : Update 22.12.0 Feedback

[N4ughtyBanana]

Hello, fellow Tenno !! :)

I play Ember a lot and as I love her, she was the first thing i took a look when the updates was live.  
So... I just did some simulacrum testing on Ember and wanted to give some Feedback ! 

SIT DOWN AND PREPARE TO READ

- Fireball
Can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.

Fireball change are amazing, you can now one shot a charger lv 100 with it. (yey) The radius is decent and makes a great way to zone a place. It's a welcomed change.
I personally think if that the charging should also increase the radius of the initial blast and it should be as big as Lenz arrow radius ~ 

But shouldnt the duration of the napalm-like flame scale with duration ? Because it doesn't. 

The casting time is way too long too.

- Fire Blast
Will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it (for allies).

Fireblast change are great, i was worried we would have to crouch to fire though the ring but there is no need for it and it gives a decent 50% damage increase !

If you combine it with Fireball and you get a very good zoning tool now 

- World On Fire
- 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.

Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense. Her ultimate, World on Fire, is unmatched in terms of widespread lethality - while many Warframes specialize in certain mission types, Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”. By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt. These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range.

World on Fire will continue working similarly to how it does now, but with changing effects over time. The gradually increasing energy cost should encourage most players to toggle the ability when needed, instead of the current “set and forget” approach. Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies.  World on Fire is still very capable of clearing rooms and sweeping hallways, but should now be applied more deliberately!

World on fire is dead (imo), DE claimed it should be an abilities used when needed. Right..

I get the idea and personally find it boring when you find a squad with 3 embers in it. you basically go grab a cup of tea and wait for the wave to finish. 

So right now, what do we have ?

A spell when charged that has less range then my Atterax (which does 100 k damage per slide attack) and deals 800 damage with 200% power strengh.

And cant be maintained due to the poor efficiency this spell has.

When do we use the spell then ? When we are swarmed with mobs ?

No way ! Any ember knows the emergency button that is obviously Fireblast to repel anything that come close and does damage to every enemies instead of 5 miserable grineer for WoF

I understand the idea of the change but it doesnt work the way it should.
I have thought of a few changes dat may make it better while taking the wanted changes into account. 

- WoF : 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half. After the shrinks the damage will gradually double every 5 s. 

I find those change better, it makes Ember useful for endgames content while making the aoe radius a lot less oppressive for other player but more deadly and worth using.

OR 

- WoF : Ember emits an aura that ignite her body for a set duration (like Vex armor). 



I would appreciate if my fellow tenno would also give some feedback about those change and what could make it better

Sorry for any fault or grammatical error, im not English.

Edited February 10, 2018 by N4ughtyBanana
Tweaks / Formulation

[LSG501]

Honestly the changes to anything but her 4 are not really an issue. 

Problem is that this rework was supposed to stop us running through levels killing stuff but I can still do it, I'm just using my crowd control build minus firequake thanks to the double damage I can just max range out to compensate (was saying this during the feedback), the energy usage is negligible. 

The thing is that it kind of stops being useful for damage at around level 30-40 (heat damage doesn't really help) and as such many of us would build around a crowd control firequake build.  Now due to the reduced range this mod just isn't effective at keeping us safe (ember is squishy remember) because most enemies are using guns and well they can quite easily shoot you from outside the now reduced range of about 15metres, most enemies even actively run away from you if they get the chance. 

DE, you can easily fix the issue at high level content by changing firequake.   Keep it's knockdown but add in that it doesn't reduce range and because you clearly don't want us to have full range and damage on lower levels make it so it either doesn't double the damage (we'll lose power strength and as such damage due to overextended) or halves the damage output.  As long as it has range and knockdown it should keep most of us who use her for crowd control happy.

[N4ughtyBanana]

No, im glad about the changes about all of the other changes !

I think they are great, they just need some tweaks. Like the duration on the Napalm-like Fireball ! ^^

You are right about using the max range build tho. I was more thinking about the endgame content that DE is trying to give to ember.
Ember was supposed to be an offensive caster purely focused on damage back in the days.

Firequake was just supposed to give her some cc. but right now if you focus on range, all of your others abilities becomes useless. I like using all of my spell and not only rely on my four. If you upgrade the range you just get 3 useless abilities instead of 1. 

 

[XavierCruz]

6 minutes ago, N4ughtyBanana said:

No, im glad about the changes about all of the other changes !

I think they are great, they just need some tweaks. Like the duration on the Napalm-like Fireball ! ^^

You are right about using the max range build tho. I was more thinking about the endgame content that DE is trying to give to ember.
Ember was supposed to be an offensive caster purely focused on damage back in the days.

Firequake was just supposed to give her some cc. but right now if you focus on range, all of your others abilities becomes useless. I like using all of my spell and not only rely on my four. If you upgrade the range you just get 3 useless abilities instead of 1. 

 

i will quote myself for this

On 2/8/2018 at 8:12 PM, XavierCruz said:

This is official, DE hate Ember getting overextended/range

and they love bring the flame war on Ember

Edited February 10, 2018 by XavierCruz

[N4ughtyBanana]

Haha, I don't mind ! 

The more message, the more chance DE will see this and may rethink about it ! :D

[Lunarez]

Gonna copy and paste here.

Quote

Kinda an ember main who played her a lot. Giving the feed back on the change.

Fireball

• While charging mechanic for damage is nice in theory, the 3-seconds it takes to fully-charge fireball is not worth the double damage gains. And since this can only be reduced with cast speed mods, for ember who already has so many mandatory mods in the list, the charge mechanic will be mostly shelved at high level play since you can just double cast Fireball for the same effect. Either reduce the cast time or maybe adding more aoe range according to charge time would remedy this.
• The fire patch is cool and all but doesn't scale with ability range and duration, only power strength. It also has pitiful aoe range too. Probably better to make the fire patch scale with mods and maybe it can be used for choke point holding and small aoe cc strategically.
• Also, please increase fireball effect and size for the rewarding feel of charging it would be nice.

Fireblast

• The fire ring needs to scale with range now that it effect your squad play. 4 meter range is too cramp for a game focusing on mobility. Maybe instead of shooting through the wall, make it so everyone within the ring gain bonus heat damage instead so that having too much range can still benefit the team.

World on Fire

• To summary, it's garbage at this point. This is after being open-minded and try it on the level 60 bounty and first sortie mission.
• The range decay forced you to recast this every 5 second before aoe size start decaying. And at 280% ability range at 100%, WoF has it's range reduce from around 40m to a pitiful 20m. For comparison Mag's Crush is sitting around 18m without any range mods. Since I know DE want to nerf the range though, I guess we could do much about it, but maybe instead of 50% range fully charge, having around 75% range would be a tad better to keep build diversity.
• Due to the range reduction from about, for Firequake build, which is the low power strength build that's not focus on killing, will either need to recast WoF every 10 sec, or pretty much being ineffective due to both 5 enemy limit and pitiful effective range. Pretty much result in being killed over and over trying to get closer to aimbot AI enemies. If you really want to keep the range at 50% at least remove the 5-targets limit so the Firequake build can work as a moving AoE CC instead. This will also help her getting in for a close fight because the instanct she bullet jump it's guaruntee aoe knockdown on everything around her.
• The damage is alright to my surprise. It can kill things at level 60 on an okey time when combo with Accerelant. But the range will put you in danger. While using the fast tapping WoF doesn't do enough damage to worth the re-activation energy. above that though, doesn't worth it to say the least since the armor scaling gone up to fast
• Seriously, why use Firequake with this now when Accerelant can pretty much do a better job at CC. It can be spammed. Hit everything, and got better range.
   

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Lunarez

[N4ughtyBanana]

Thanks a lot for sharing :)

Do you mind if I edit my post and add some your point of view in it ? They are construct and well thought.

[L9OBL]

Being an Ember main myself, I completely agree. WoF is Completely dead. I built my ember around the Firequake mod. Nothing fancy in terms of build: intensify, primed flow, streamline, stretch, primed continuity, vitality, firquake. The point wasn't for Ember to go into Mott and kill everything. infact, the point was to NOT to kill anything at all. My build was centered around CCing enemies by constantly knocking them down, with enough of a radius that myself, and my team mates could, kill them with our weapons and not worry about being completely decimated by an enemy swarm. With my playstyle Ember excelled at the CC roll too. I could easily pull an hour and half + on most survival missions. at 145% range she has what 21m? which was perfect for me. Now I either have to keep recasting WoF every 5 seconds, which takes away from actually playing the game or I have a useless 10 meters on my current build, which forces me to instead make a range build, with overextended and that defeats having the damage buff in the first place. Looking at my current build, if I was to modify accordingly, I would swap out vitality and redirection for overextended and Equilibrium. In the end, I'm keeping similar damage and range to the pre "buff" ember, and completely doubling my energy drain by sacrificing the little amounts of Shield and Health that acted as a buffer and allowed my normally squish ember, to just not really care about high level enemies as what few attack they could pull off during high levels, wouldnt  one shot me.

 

The damage buff is cool, i think its kinda nice. and in all honesty, the increased drain is manageable. I could have worked around that, swap out redirection for equilibrium or something. But that range nerf just... no. It makes WoF so completely useless without overextended, but then the double damage is completely moot. Maybe if they increased her base range so that 145% gave us 35ish meters? Then the halved range after 10 seconds, while being less than the pre "buff" ember, isnt crippling. and the increased drain becomes a fair trade-off for the increased damage. that double damage is, imo worth dealing with the horrendous drain. but only barely. and i mean BARELY.

I'm probably going to wait a week or two, see how the address everyone's input on the matter and if DE doesn't come up with a decent fix, i'm probably going to go main a different frame. Which is a shame, Ember is by far the most fun frame I have.

[Maka.Bones]

Posting this here:

About Ember:

1)I wish that fireball's damage scaled with enemy armor, once it's fully charged (lower base damage, but scales with enemy armor). *Imagine your armor heating up/melting while your wearing it, basically cooking you alive.*  It could be a dot effect, and/or scaling with power

-expensive if I want to cast it often

-3s cast time seems long. 0.5-1s might be the sweet spot.

- It would also be nice if the naplam scaled with duration/range mods. 

-larger aoe/duration, for fully charging it

-augment could buff ember via napalm

-would be AWESOME if napalm could proc Ember's passive... Plzu!?

2) I'd still like it if it worked like banshee's silence aura. Or if it caused the effect that I suggested for her 1 (making fire damage scale with ember) and made enemies burst into flames like the napalm does

-expensive to spam, and I need to spam this if I want to use it for fireball(another reason why I wish it worked like banshee's silence aura)

3)would be cool if could charge for extra damage & range. 

- base cost is somewhat expensive.

- base duration is somewhat short 

- would be nice if the damage to bullets crossing through, also affected her fireballs... (Can't tell if it does) And if it scaled with power str (haven't thoroughly tested, so pls ignore this if it does)

4) it's actually really nice, but I can still play afk if I tweak some mods around. (Shhhh, don't tell anyone)

-energy cost makes it difficult to use any of Ember's other abilities. 

I'd like it if her WoF was replaced with a movement ability, or a buff that merged what "overheat" was, and how gara's "shattered glass" works. This would give players the survivability that they're asking for. 

I think these suggestions would encourage people to be more active with ember. It would also help her survive, and scale better at higher lvls.

They would also be a lot easier to implement, than my previous ideas lol... 

...Like these (sassy post, but mostly meant for effect/humor): 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/917763-ember-ideas-to-improve-balance-scaling-and-fun-v20/

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[firefrostI]

  Ya Ember was the reason I started playing this game, she's one of the coolest warframes in the game. the nerf to wof isnt really an issue with me I only used it to cc stuff , it never killed anything over lvl 30 . I just see this going in a different direction here, whats done to her will be done to all of them eventually . Im glad players here are having luck with killing a lvl 100 mob with a fireball , maybe they have farmed all the stuff you removed today raids ect and maybe they use focus(what ever that is) and arcanes and all that jazz but for a noob like me that just plays the game to have fun , the game just turned into a chore , there were tons of ways to fix the issue with new players getting griefed by the wof thing 

1) lock players into the same brackets a new player isnt gonna be mr 24 

2) place a little im a noob sticker on them or buff them or something

3) place a range cap on EVERY warframe ability essentially killing all range mods but lets be fair here - then there would be no issues with limbos 1/4 to 1/2 map bubble mesa's jamming ability or volt clearing entire rooms with his 1st ability

4) or just teach the new players how to play the game( lets face it the only time ember is ever in a low lvl thing is to lvl back up from being forma'd)there's nothing that tells new guys anything , i still have no idea what focus is

but i do agree WOF is a wasted slot for an ability and given that ember gets 1-2 shot in sorties ect she does need a viable option here - i buy plat and all the little packs cause its a fun game(i have tons of duplicate primes btw need to sell the stuff separately)- if its not something i enjoy playing im not gonna keep buying stuff- not for the ember nerf but just in general we've all seen it you go from changing 1-2 things and then the whole game is changed.

it was a fun game and i hope there can be some median thing worked out with it 

idk its just frustrating and i dont even use ember that much at all , been using octavia recently

[ArazilSongweaver]

Quick suggestion Re: World On Fire changes: Revert the ability back to the original parameters but add a bit of range based damage scaling to it. After 40 meters (value negotiable), start scaling the damage down. The outer perimeter of the ability would be a minimum value such as 20% (again, value negotiable). Firequake's crowd control abilities continue to impact the entire range of the ability.

End result: Ember continues to be a viable crowd control frame while the damage scaling component makes it harder to nuke enemies from 3 rooms away.

[KaiTodd]

I am an ember main, and while I have used her for nuking lower level enemies, I have also used her for cc. By cutting her range in half for wof, her augment is useless. Her first ability seems very expensive, especially for a caster. Her third ability doesn't scale with range, and the increase in heat damage when shooting through her fire blast doesn't do much. Heat damage is probably one of the worst scaling damages in late game.

For suggestions (yes, I am still suggesting changes even after the rework):

I would like for her first ability to be replaced with overheat, as it will give her a level of survivability, now that we can't depend on WOF for cc.

Her second ability should have a longer stun duration, hopefully scaling with power duration.

Her third ability should scale with range, which can make the augment for it viable. 

Her fourth ability should have additional status chance. If her range is going to be halved, might as well increase the status chance so that her damage can at least scale into late game.

Finally, her passive. It should be changed completely. 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by ChanTheMan2448

[Borg1611]

I wish they'd replace her passive. You could use that as a way of fixing her damage scaling at higher levels and/or her durability. Her current passive is just a waste. My suggestions from another Ember thread were:

1) Replace her useless passive with something like a Heat mechanic. As she deals heat damage she builds up heat (up to some cap and it starts to fall slowly when not dealing heat damage), increasing her ability strength and maybe giving her some energy regeneration that isn't deactivated by WoF. Unleashing constant fiery mayhem is her theme, give her a passive that helps with her late game scaling and helps keep her casting without crutches (IE high efficiency). 

Heat could also have a DR component where dealing heat damage builds up a heat shield around you, reducing damage. That's another problem she has. I don't think she should ever be "Tanky," fire mage/glass cannon makes sense for her, but it would be nice to be able to go into higher level content with her and not be randomly one shot.

2) An alternative idea could be to create a new effect where damage she takes is converted into a fiery DoT you then have to try to manage in some way. This would be modifying her existing passive theme into one that you actually use. You could allow her to essentially add some of the heat DoT stacking on her into her other abilities to buff their damage and expend some of the heat. She'd obviously need to heal in some way, which might be awkward for newer players without access to various forms of healing. She could also heal herself for some amount when dealing heat damage when she isn't suffering from the DoT to give her some self-healing to go with the new mechanic. 

She has such a small health pool compared to incoming unmitigated damage that it might be really awkward to try to manage without making it quickly hit a one tick and you're dead point. Part of implementing it would be choosing the duration of the DoT and maybe adjusting her health pool (or giving her some fire DR).  If she's made to be too good at this she could essentially also become a Tanky DPS which might not fit her theme well. I think this idea would be a neat concept but a lot harder to implement without either sucking or being OP. It could also have odd interactions with DR frames like Trinity/Gara. 

 

[_Vortus_]

I like the change.   Toggle it every once in a while, and its just like before.   Or just let it ride and kill the 5th tier bounty enemies without much of an issue.   Ember just got a nice buff from from this update.   She is still squishy though, but does so much dmg and can still CC it just doesn't matter.   Thank you DE!!!

The only change I would like to see is something that helped her survive.  

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, Tennavan said:

Quick suggestion Re: World On Fire changes: Revert the ability back to the original parameters but add a bit of range based damage scaling to it. After 40 meters (value negotiable), start scaling the damage down. The outer perimeter of the ability would be a minimum value such as 20% (again, value negotiable). Firequake's crowd control abilities continue to impact the entire range of the ability.

End result: Ember continues to be a viable crowd control frame while the damage scaling component makes it harder to nuke enemies from 3 rooms away.

No pls, I wouldn't want that on my ember. 

[Kallale]

As a long time user of Ember I can understand these changes, however I dont agree with what was done to WoF. The changes to her other abilities give her some much needed upgrades and help considerably, I am quite pleased with how these work. However, after trying desperately for hours though, I can not create a functional and practical build for her WoF.

Previously, Ember had 2 main uses.
(1) Low Level Mob Clearing: This is the main reason I feel the ability was changed. It excelled at clearing through low level maps without much effort and while fun for a single person, removed any and all jobs for your teammates. This set up was used in powerleveling (something DE seems to hate) and in farming situation (resources/relics).

(2) CC frame: Ember's damage quickly fell off as enemies got higher in levels. For me, if enemies were around level 45 I would switch to a CC role. While much the same as the above build, I traded power strength for efficiency and survivability to allow me to stay alive and constantly CC'ing high threat targets and used my weapons to deal damage.

The changes to her WoF were supposed to fix the 'anti-fun' nature in team mode while allowing her to also scale damage into the late game levels where enemies were previously resistant to her. I like the sentiment but the execution kinda failed. We now have an Ember whose 4th ability augment is useless, who struggles to clear low level content reasonably quickly (Banshee/Volt/Frost/Saryn.... probably more all clear low level content faster with their spam) and who has little to no survivability but somehow has to get close to high level enemies to be effective.

Id like to see the WoF changed a bit more or outright reverted till a better solution is found. Something like adding a DR mechanic as the radius reduces would make her more endgame viable.
World On Fire
- 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half and Ember recieves additional damage reduction (up to a max of 90% with mods).

or maybe changing the Augment to remove the range shrink and instead give damage fall off as someone else suggested.

[Cornelius.EE]

I posted my thoughts on Ember on the "main" warframe changes thread but wanted to share them here as well. Here is the link.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/918487-update-22120-warframe-changes-feedback-megathread/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-9480715

Here are the two previous posts I made when the changes were announced.
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/915093-dev-workshop-warframes-revisited/?page=86&tab=comments#comment-9450374
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/915093-dev-workshop-warframes-revisited/?page=105&tab=comments#comment-9454688

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Cornelius.EE

[-CM-Machete]

hace 8 horas, N4ughtyBanana dijo:

Fireball change are amazing, you can now one shot a charger lv 100 with it. The radius is decent and makes a great way to zone a place. It's a welcomed change.
I personally think if that the charging should also increase the radius of the initial blast and it should be as big as Lenz arrow radius ~

My melee can do that too (twisting your own point on WoF against yourself), actually, lots of things can, chargers scale terribly, probably the worst scaling enemy in the entire game. And no, the "range" is not decent,  you need to be ridiculously  lucky in order to charge and drop at the right moment. And it actually punishes you if you have regular human hands and dare to use a keyboard, a small knockback can take the enemies out of the flames, this idea came from a guy who made an argument on Reddit about using the napalm thing to immolate himself and get the passive buff, but they take it as an isolated statement and turned it into a flashy and slower way of doing nothing.

 

hace 8 horas, N4ughtyBanana dijo:

Fireblast change are great, i was worried we would have to crouch to fire though the ring but there is no need for it and it gives a decent 50% damage increase !

 

But it doesn't scale with power strength, maybe +50% base damage, but doesn't scale,  like many other "buffs"  it's useless when you need it (high level) and irrelevant the rest of the time. Test it with 100% damage strength and an unmodded Ignis on a bulky character without armor or a Corpus tech, then add tons of power strength. It goes from 85-ish to 129-ish regardless of your strength. On top of that, it hurts the best primary weapon for Ember: Ignis.

 

It's not WoF only, the changes the made to "compensate" the nerf are also bad and unnecessary clunky to make use of.

 

 

[N4ughtyBanana]

 

3 hours ago, -CM-Machete said:

My melee can do that too (twisting your own point on WoF against yourself), actually, lots of things can, chargers scale terribly, probably the worst scaling enemy in the entire game.

I know. I find those change nice but not what I expected.
Those change are welcomed, at least it gets a bit more complicated and not just i launch a fireball and i unleash a fireblast. 

3 hours ago, -CM-Machete said:

But it doesn't scale with power strength, maybe +50% base damage, but doesn't scale

It works just like Volt shield, the power strengh doesnt affect it either. If he doesnt have it, it would be unfair for Ember to have it in term of balance.

And as I said, it needs tweaks, it is just some unfinished product.
Anyway, Ember was supposed to be a pure offensive caster with low defense abilities. 
Meanwhile, Nidus is laughing in the corner as a caster being strong offensively and defensively.

[An8rchy]

Thank god im not the only one thinking that Ember needs a buff! 
posting here for more hope <3

 

1 hour ago, An8rchy said:

So, heres my opinion with ember:
We all know that Warframe lets us do our own builds right ? We build how we want and thats ok, Well with the Ember nerfs that won't happen anymore  let me explain.
If de wants us to use Wof at all after this nerf, you gotta have both streamline and Fleeting expertise. more so, if you want to get a good range at base, you will put stretch, also ember needs duration so P continuity is a must. 
If you have been counting thats 4 mandatory mods. Yes, you can recast wof to reset drain and range, but, who here remembers why Wof is a toggle now ? it was changed because players hated having to click buttons on a timer. This is the same as Mesa, but heres the difference,
 Mesa can actually scale, has a 95% dmg reduction, and a Squad wide cc.
Yes, the dmg is great and might help her kill stuff at now, lvl 50-60 easier. but at what cost ? struggleing for energy ? getting shot because the range of wof is smaller than melee range ?
I want to suggest things but, to me Ember has to go to the drawing board and rethink, keeping what the players like and starting new on what they dont.
I will be using spoilers now since the post might get too big.

Fireball being replaced by a Fire Wisp:

  Reveal hidden contents

This ability has to go, by seeing how ember is designed, she is a glass cannon, she has to be able to sustain herself, deal dmg and be nimble.
Holding a fireball to get a napalm isnt any of those. (also draining more energy but i will skip that)
So heres what i suggest:

Fireball is replaced for fire wisp
These wisps give the following effects:
r5 firewalker buffs (at base, can increase with power strgh)
Dmg reduction capped at 70% (based on power strgh, base should sit around 40%) (shes a glass cannon, she cant have as much as Mesa or a tank but not too little where its useless)

The augment will let you:
Cast it on team mates
Dmg reduction on teammates is reducted for 40%
Gives heat dmg to caster and teammates that were casted

What i want to achive with this change is, keep the niche of fireball, that gives heat dmg with the augment, but also make ember a team player, giving a small dmg reduction as overheat, but making her more mobile.

 

Accelarant remaining as it is:

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I dont have much to say here, Accelarant is on a good spot. so no changes here besides the augment, this one is hard cuz accelarant is already a pretty good ability, but i really dont know what to say to make it a choice instead of a direct buff or useless augment 

 

Fireblast chaging to a Naplam:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This is another ability that has to go in my opinion, The augment is a glorified 1 wave of wof.  

I would change this to some sort of soft napalm (will explain later)

You would cast it and if there was enemies at:
50% of the range, they would get knockdown and have a 75% heat proc
for the rest of the range, they will get a stagger and a 25% heat proc
(im not talking about dmg here cuz i want a mechanic not an actual nuke)

For the augment i will keep the initial idea

50% of the range they will get a knock down and a 25% heat proc
the remainer of the range, they will also get a knockdown but not heat proc chance

The idea i want to give with this is, Either this ability is a panic button (un-augmented) or a controled cc (augmented)

 

 

World on fire staying as it is, but giving it synergies and changes:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

People have already spoken on how much the nerf on this ability kills Ember, but theres the problem of low lvl missions, In my opinion, ember shouldnt suffer because of it when theres way worse frames that can do it faster and better, with that said, this is what i propose

Fuctions the same as this nerf but 2 things, range and drain

Range is buffed from -50% to -20%
The drain is buffed from 2x to 0x
The reason for this is that, ember is a Caster, and needs both range and low drain to make use of abilities and survive. but i will give a +drain counter further on the ability

Wof Builds a meter (I will call it Fire for the sake of writing)

On deactivation of wof, each 25% of the meter is converted into 1 stack
The stacks work as an incentive to not use Wof 24/7 but not forget about it completly

The stacks are used whenever you cast one of the 4 abilities:

-Fire wisp (Fireball) If theres is at least 1 Stack available, it will be consumed while granting Fire wisp to grant +10% (additive) of Dmg reduction (this will work with the agument giving your teammates more dmg reduction, but it will cost 1 stack per teammate)
-Accelarant   If theres at least 3 stacks, the duration is increased by 50% and so is the casting speed
-Napalm (Fire blast) If theres at least 5 stacks, Napalm will leave a fiery ground (Like hallowed ground) that ground will have 50% of the range of Napalm and a base 10 sec duration (duration mods will increase it)
-World on Fire   If you have 10 stacks, Wof will have 2.5x drain, no Range debuff on cast. Every 5 secs it will cause a explosion that will cause a scorch area (around 10m base, 10 secs duration) for the duration of the cast

And the Augment will be pretty much the same but changing a few things Wof itself

Every 2 seconds that the ability is casted, a heat wave will be casted, this wave will 100% panic enemies with heat procs but also remove 1% of enemy armor
As the ability is running, the more range it gets, but the more drain it gets too.

What i wish this ability to be, is the bread and butter of Ember, yes you can still clear low lvl missions, But so can other frames with way more efficency, I want the rework to be a way for ember to join the "I can scale" frame group.
Again, giving 2 options with the augment in hand.
Having wof for stacking "Fire" or having some cc and debuffing at the cost of more drain over time (you gotta know when to cc and not spam cc)

 

 

Some Final notes for who actualy read this:
Yes, some of these could be too op, but yet again, its suggestions, the ideas could be cool and all it needs are value changes.
Hopefully someone likes the ideas and thx for reading you beautiful tenno!

[Terrornaut]

8 hours ago, ChanTheMan2448 said:

I am an ember main, and while I have used her for nuking lower level enemies, I have also used her for cc. By cutting her range in half for wof, her augment is useless. Her first ability seems very expensive, especially for a caster. Her third ability doesn't scale with range, and the increase in heat damage when shooting through her fire blast doesn't do much. Heat damage is probably one of the worst scaling damages in late game.

For suggestions (yes, I am still suggesting changes even after the rework):

I would like for her first ability to be replaced with overheat, as it will give her a level of survivability, now that we can't depend on WOF for cc.

Her second ability should have a longer stun duration, hopefully scaling with power duration.

Her third ability should scale with range, which can make the augment for it viable. 

Her fourth ability should have additional status chance. If her range is going to be halved, might as well increase the status chance so that her damage can at least scale into late game.

Finally, her passive. It should be changed completely. 

 

WoF has mid 80% chance on one single tick (out of 3-4 per sec) to proc for me. Amplifying its damage by 6, both initial explosion and heat dot, is pretty severe. It is guaranteed heat proc though, and honestly at that point, its about as reliable as fire quake. FQs use then becomes making Ember get guranteed ground finishers. I get 11x damage on a melee strike with Ember. Tell me that is not scaling.

Plenty else i agree with you, her passive and more. Accelerant is fine as is. Fireball needs quicker charge - it already drains double energy and is less efficient in many cases than just quick 2-casting fireballs.

Fireblast needs to scale with power strength and not stack and have a minimum of 50% for the meme embers that run 0 strength because currently, meme ember build got buffed by these changes. 

5 hours ago, -CM-Machete said:

My melee can do that too (twisting your own point on WoF against yourself), actually, lots of things can, chargers scale terribly, probably the worst scaling enemy in the entire game. And no, the "range" is not decent,  you need to be ridiculously  lucky in order to charge and drop at the right moment. And it actually punishes you if you have regular human hands and dare to use a keyboard, a small knockback can take the enemies out of the flames, this idea came from a guy who made an argument on Reddit about using the napalm thing to immolate himself and get the passive buff, but they take it as an isolated statement and turned it into a flashy and slower way of doing nothing.

 

But it doesn't scale with power strength, maybe +50% base damage, but doesn't scale,  like many other "buffs"  it's useless when you need it (high level) and irrelevant the rest of the time. Test it with 100% damage strength and an unmodded Ignis on a bulky character without armor or a Corpus tech, then add tons of power strength. It goes from 85-ish to 129-ish regardless of your strength. On top of that, it hurts the best primary weapon for Ember: Ignis.

 

It's not WoF only, the changes the made to "compensate" the nerf are also bad and unnecessary clunky to make use of.

 

 

900 hours on Ember and plenty vs 120 corrupted and grineer enemies. Ignis is not terrible but it is not good for Ember just because it does heat damage does not mean it is good for her. Dont fall into that obvious trap.  Put heat on any good weapon, a tigris, an arcor, a kohm, a lens, most shotguns, and you will see how monstrous heat damage can become when you are filling with large quantity of corrosive procs.

 

Armor being an obstacle vs heat damage is not an excuse anymore, do better people. There are so many ways to strip armor very quickly and treat level 100 enemies like they are 10.

[Lord_Yawgmoth]

i believe the main reason wof got changed isnt because it made it easy to clear low lvl there is tons of other stuff that can do this too, but that u had just press 4-button and go afk while finishing ur mission 

so instead of this horrible change they should have made it into one click burst aoe with reduced cc effect the higher the range

 

and one thing they should do with all caster type frames include mod scaling from weapons for abilities like atlas 1 ability so those abilites start scaling into late game...i mean why should i use fireball or whatever if i can just aoe one shot with my weapons, this totally destroys one purpose of caster-frames 

i can also use my weapons to aoe-cc too, if i pick the right weapons and mods, so why would i play a supersquishy cc-caster-frame?

another solution would be to implement weapon mods which influence abilities instead of the weapons dmg or status

[PatternistSlave]

Well she was pretty crap for high level content and now she's worse.  All because a bunch of noobs didn't like her running around killing everything at low levels.  Which she's now better at doing.  All around quality quality stuff.

[Sumnus]

If they'd increase the time it takes to get up to the point where she goes into the countdown, and increase the time it takes to get to 100%, it's probably fine to be honest. Not ideal, obviously; but no nerf is ideal (especially when she's been considered fine for four+ years). But 10 seconds is a joke. That's how long it takes to see the first enemy show up after making their way through DE's ridiculous corridors on their maps now, and if we're being totally honest, it's not like the range of world on fire was all that big to begin with with the new design on maps/tilesets. Look at some of the newer tilesets, they're massive, look at the plains. Range isn't an issue anymore, it's becoming a necessity.

[Lizard_Lick]

I'd like to see the same nerf Wof recieved on Banshee, Equinox and Limbo. 

They act the same on low levels like Ember.

Ember is rendered useless now. Bad on low levels crap on high level.