Ember Changes : Update 22.12.0 Feedback

[Messkoo]

1st power :

Good thing, but the charge rate is really to long, and the cost expensive.

 

3rd power :

Good buff,  but there is some tweak to do when you shoot a target  which is below or upper you (like in plain or some tilset) we don"t see the area to shoot trough to have the buff.

 

4th power :

For me it's usless now, and destroy the utility of the syndicate augment. Coming back with the old version before canalization system will be better. But I think a total rework of the mod will be better, something that change/boost her other abilities.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Messkoo

[firefrostI]

1 hour ago, Terrornaut said:

WoF has mid 80% chance on one single tick (out of 3-4 per sec) to proc for me. Amplifying its damage by 6, both initial explosion and heat dot, is pretty severe. It is guaranteed heat proc though, and honestly at that point, its about as reliable as fire quake. FQs use then becomes making Ember get guranteed ground finishers. I get 11x damage on a melee strike with Ember. Tell me that is not scaling.

Plenty else i agree with you, her passive and more. Accelerant is fine as is. Fireball needs quicker charge - it already drains double energy and is less efficient in many cases than just quick 2-casting fireballs.

Fireblast needs to scale with power strength and not stack and have a minimum of 50% for the meme embers that run 0 strength because currently, meme ember build got buffed by these changes. 

900 hours on Ember and plenty vs 120 corrupted and grineer enemies. Ignis is not terrible but it is not good for Ember just because it does heat damage does not mean it is good for her. Dont fall into that obvious trap.  Put heat on any good weapon, a tigris, an arcor, a kohm, a lens, most shotguns, and you will see how monstrous heat damage can become when you are filling with large quantity of corrosive procs.

 

Armor being an obstacle vs heat damage is not an excuse anymore, do better people. There are so many ways to strip armor very quickly and treat level 100 enemies like they are 10.

you know if you socket enemy sense in there it will scan and only land on enemies?i told 1 guy that and he just laughed and said no it doesnt , but it does 

[YoDoge]

Suggestion is okay.

But I think Ember is in decent spot right now. If I would change something I would change range factor. I feel like it is a bit too short. So a little addition to range wouldn't hurt.

[Ghostin21]

I haven't had a chance for significant testing, but the only real change for lvl 30 and below is I need to stop for a pizza here and there.  More dmg up close is nice, but the range nerf guts Firequake utility and puts Ember at higher risk with an insufficient reward, and replicates her 3's function.

All in all, the changes are a failure to address the issue - insta-killing lower level content at long range with no movement impedance, and poor high-level damage capability vs armor.

Recommendations for WoF: 

Replicate Volt's 4 from a casting perspective, but instead of cc, auto inflict a heat proc, and boost heat damage from other sources by a [power affected] percentage for [duration affected] amount of time.

Have Firequake be a hard cc option, allow WoF to function like it does pre-change, but with a 75% damage nerf, and about 75% of pre-change range.  Retaining the heat damage boost from other sources would be a help vs. higher level content.

Players get the choice of highly synergistic damage options but restrictive movement, or fast movement with good cc.

[Hakugami]

16 hours ago, N4ughtyBanana said:

Haha, I don't mind ! 

The more message, the more chance DE will see this and may rethink about it ! :D

Pointed people this way earlier! Glad more people commented to keep the thread up :D Thank you for starting it!

So I've tried Ember so far only in low lvl missions. I usually do not put any survivability mods on her but my plains build has Vitality on, so I tweaked that build a bit and tried it out.

Fireball can be pretty useful. The charge seems a tad too long and makes your hand do some weird positions so that mobility can be impaired while holding it.

Fire Blast still feels lacking to me. Considering Ember is squishy and the game wants you to be more mobile, staying in that small spot for a fire buff doesn't seem like a very good idea. I'd rather use Flash Accelerant for the buff if needed.

WoF it would help if we could see the range getting smaller. I've gotten used to knowing how far my range was since it was static. Now that it changes, I'd like to be able to see it. 

Also I almost forgot her passive! That really needs to be looked at. Seen some real nice suggestions all over reddit and the forums. Buff from sliding, self fire proc with no damage using 1... Atm I barely even use the passive unless I survive a napalm or do the overheat route in sabotage.

 

Keep all the constructive feedback up, all! So far so good.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Hakugami

[Terrornaut]

2 hours ago, firefrostI said:

you know if you socket enemy sense in there it will scan and only land on enemies?i told 1 guy that and he just laughed and said no it doesnt , but it does 

What do you mean exactly? Are you talking about how wof seeks targets? It will usually prioritize nearest enemy but it does its own thing. I can't explain it but for me its reliable.

[Xyhon]

Honestly, this is hardly a nerf, rather nuisance. Also. Flash Accelerant is wonderful for Ember, and group.

[-CM-Machete]

hace 4 horas, Terrornaut dijo:

900 hours on Ember and plenty vs 120 corrupted and grineer enemies. Ignis is not terrible but it is not good for Ember just because it does heat damage does not mean it is good for her. Dont fall into that obvious trap.  Put heat on any good weapon, a tigris, an arcor, a kohm, a lens, most shotguns, and you will see how monstrous heat damage can become when you are filling with large quantity of corrosive procs.

 

Armor being an obstacle vs heat damage is not an excuse anymore, do better people. There are so many ways to strip armor very quickly and treat level 100 enemies like they are 10.

I was giving an example, not stating a fundamental law of the universe. But at early high levels Ignis is 1k times better than any shotgun, it is about what you need most of the time, not specific cases where only a few weapons can go past tickling enemies, a weapon being able to kill tougher enemies doesn't become automatically superior in every aspect. I agree in general, but don't draw examples as the core of someone's point.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by -CM-Machete

[Andele3025]

19 hours ago, N4ughtyBanana said:

- Fireball
Can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.

The casting time is way too long too.

A spell when charged that has less range then my Atterax (which does 100 k damage per slide attack) and deals 800 damage with 200% power strengh and cant be maintained due to the poor efficiency this spell has.

When do we use the spell then? When we are swarmed with mobs? No way! Any ember knows the emergency button that is obviously Fireblast to repel anything that come close and does damage to every enemies instead of 5 miserable grineer for WoF

2 notes:
Cast speed is a stat to mod for (sadly on only 2 mods) and memeterax is 12-19k (at 2-2.5 combo assuming sensible build, on someone like nidus with topped off stacks or octavia/loki its 25 and 38k and only on them at above 4.5 multi does it get to 100k) while WoF will do 1600 with 200% now post shrink/effectively has double Power Strength scaling with 5.5/7.5 and 11 and 10.87m range with single range mod respectively, inflating the numbers does nothing when even without inflating them the damage difference is obvious.

WoF could just have a secondary "held" cast tho. So base cast: low range, low energy cost, low explosion count, high status chance, high damage at start, then when held range, energy cost and explosion count increase, while status chance and damage decrease; thus making it better for Firequake, but worse as a actual AOE damage skill/sustained afk murder... possibly even on a timer like the current shrink is (so every 10s+duration scaling, it would slowly start shrinking unless you start charging again at a rate dictated by how high ones power strength is/higher power strength the faster it shrinks when timer is hit).

Edited February 10, 2018 by Andele3025

[HankHuley]

How to play ember

 

Before :

Take a blue ball

Press 4

Run everywhere and be carfull to energy drain and dispell, and eventually an accelerant sometime to get more power for a little moment, and finish enemy down when cc by firequake.

 

New :

 

Take a blue ball

Active : Press 4.

Wait 10 sec

Stop : Press 4 again

Take a blue ball

Active : Press 4 again and die

Wait 10 sec

Stop : Press 4 again

Take a blue ball

Active : Press 4 again and die

Wait 10 sec

Stop : Press 4 again

Take a blue ball

Active : Press 4 again and die

Wait 10 sec

Stop : Press 4 again

Take a blue ball

Active : Press 4 again and die

Wait 10 sec

Stop : Press 4 again

etc etc

 

My futur teammate will be really happy :3

 

Fun become annoying only focussing this cycle no time for aiming with weapon, no energie to waste for another spell.

[Asdryu]

I'm very glad that you shared your opinion and didn't know Fire Blast got this added effect.

I'm more interested about world on fire though 'cause to me it got nerfed. No change, just nerfed. The range for it gets waaaaayyy too short to be effective in any real case and it's stupid as the change that Overcharge for Volt got. New players needs start to swallow something because this is a major problem that Warframe has.

People start to see something almost everywhere: that thing has to DIE. 1st Mesa, 2nd has been Ash, now Ember, 4th WILL BE Saryn and 5th Equinox, I know it! I'm already calling it 'cause people seems to be alergic against anything that isn't LoS affected. I'm trying to foresee that Warframe, sooner or later will have something challenging and what the problem is with that and that new players WON'T EVER know is that enemies in this game will shoot at you as soon as you come out from any cover even if you're behind them with immaculate accuracy and for some frames this is a huge problem as they can't afford to take many hits. This problem will come out hot as hell when there will be huge enemies with weakspots surrounded by weaker ones (oh look, a Nox!).

Ironically enough, Ember IS one of these frames and the fact that you have to be DAGGER close to an enemy for World on fire to be effective isn't acceptable and her only ability that really helps with her damage is Flash accelerant, really. Fire Blast is cool and all, but I've never seen it as a useful skill to deal damage and 75 energy cost for such a cc skill is way too high. I can see Ember as a decent buffer as for she is now. Maybe if Accelerant could also increase efficiency?

Sadly, I can't suggest a change for world on fire if not a complete removal of the ability itself. The name literally says what it should do and since I can't see this to be affected by LoS I'm just incapacitaded to imagine how this could effectively change without pissing the lovely new players that will quit anyway. Thanks or not because of Ember. My biggest grudge is that they complain about the "Grindframe" (the biggest meme. It's like if I want to play Dark Souls online but without invasions) and the presence of frames like this both at the same time.

[robbybe01234]

I'll repost what I wrote in another thread because it seems like a more relevant here. 

"I agree that there is more effort, in general but especially since the range thing.  I can't see myself building to compensate because it would just reduce the other way I do damage; the multiplier specifically.  I can't enjoy combat with her right now as the flow has been replaced with "when do I toggle?"  Which now happens after one of my team gets downed or I suddenly start taking near lethal damage.  Where as before it was far more predictable and allowed me to focus on priority targets.  Now Im just micromanaging the 10 second window.  Such a simple change throws off her whole feel."

"I hear you and was think about why accel (without flash) was good.  I think it was because it allowed WoF to diminish enemies on the borders of your range before you had to fight them.  As if all close encounters were easier because they were all weakened by the accel WoF combo at the 20-30m range.  Now that I'm experiencing full engagement starting at that close range (10ish) along with non ccd enemies slightly farther out(20ish), things are quite tense.  And accel does stun those one slight farther out but just not long enough to deal with the full health dudes right in front of me, even with the 100% boost. Still refining my thoughts on this."

[TKDancer]

4 hours ago, YoDoge said:

Suggestion is okay.

But I think Ember is in decent spot right now. If I would change something I would change range factor. I feel like it is a bit too short. So a little addition to range wouldn't hurt.

she is in an awful spot right now

 

her gimmick of destroying low level content has been nerfed by a LOT due to the range going down over time by half(not that being able to destroy star chart stuff by just jumping around was good design mind you, but the way they went about addressing it was bad)

 

the damage increase from this new mechanic is negligible, WoF doing double dmg in half the radius against level 50+ armored enemies is not enough to justify the range being halved, in high level content the main reason to use ember was for CC using the firequake augment, having our range halved messes a lot with the usefulness of that aug

 

and the energy cost increasing overtime just destroys her energy economy... also the other 2 changes were meh at best

[chainchompguy3]

I'm just a bit confused here.

DE very clearly states the following.

20 hours ago, N4ughtyBanana said:

Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense.

Yet, a good 95% of the comments demand to bring the survivability back.

If they are to stick to what they say Ember is supposed to be, that's not really an option.

She's supposed to be a glass-cannon. Stop trying to give her Damage-reduction/CC.

 

I understand that survivability is pretty dang key to warframe now-a-days.

I also understand that at high levels, her damage is pretty dang weak from scaling.

So I understand that she basically ends up being a glass-water-pistol, rather than a glass-cannon.

 

But that doesn't mean she needs to bend to the rest of the game.

Playing as a glass cannon is one of the most basic playstyles in existence.

If the game is built in such a way that it's completely unviable to play that way, then that means the Game has failed to support those players who play that way.

If the game can't make their signature, poster-girl glass-cannon work, they need to fix that, because they are making the game far less enjoyable for a large portion of their audience.

 

I don't care how they do it.

Make Caster/ability damage completely percentage based.

Add a new system, where players can more actively predict and avoid attacks that could one-shot them.

Buff heat damage to ridiculousness.

Make health gated, so that damage-per-5-seconds is capped to half health, or something of the sort.

Fix the gosh-danged scaling for once.

Again, I don't care.

 

But this is a sign of a broken game, not a broken character.

[Casval_Rouge]

1 hour ago, chainchompguy3 said:

I'm just a bit confused here.

DE very clearly states the following.

Yet, a good 95% of the comments demand to bring the survivability back.

If they are to stick to what they say Ember is supposed to be, that's not really an option.

She's supposed to be a glass-cannon. Stop trying to give her Damage-reduction/CC.

 

 

 

DE also said Volt was about having alternatives to gunplay.  That was when Volt was first designed, yet even in this first playable iteration (for founders that is, not internal of course), he had the exact same kit as he has now, just with some minor differences.  

My point?  Don't read into what they say, because 9/10 times they don't do what they say when it comes to Warframe designs.  They removed Overheat from Ember because she wasn't supposed to be tanky, but gives her no real damage.  Then went on to give Mesa Shatter Shield, whom at launch had easily the most insane, non-interactive, anti-coop ultimate in the game.  

Btw, Ember's original description was a CC oriented Warframe  Now they say she is a glass cannon?  And yet she can't do either of these roles thanks to the changes.    

[TotallyLagging]

Just my 2 cents, but the Ember change has achieved absolutely nothing, you can still run around and ruin new players' games with WoF on if you want to. Fireball is still terrible, the charge is too slow, and it's not that good for area denial since you already have Fire Blast anyway. Just seems like some random thing they threw at Ember.

The only thing they achieved with the change is gutting Firequake Ember which is like the only build where WoF is useful for Sortie-level content because fire sucks vs. armor. That's the only thing I care about atm.

I welcome the Fire Blast + Accelerant interaction though.

[XavierCruz]

I agree, the philosophy of a glass cannon is "the best defense is a good offense", this means that if they have terrible offense, they will die, now look at Ember

but as of now, where Ember stands being a HEAT elemental warframe, where it is a un-stackable DoT and recoverable stun element, it does not have a good reputation among the players, but her skill and based on that and doing solely on offensive, and worse, they are doing merely flat damage where the enemies EHP are scaling exponentially

If DE wants to make Ember good now, they need to have her to get rid of a good chunk of those EHP (let's say 55% across the board), either by armor stripping (reduction), penetration or self buff scaling

i will quote myself for the self buff scaling 

Spoiler

On 2/8/2018 at 8:25 PM, XavierCruz said:

i believe this could answer to the lack of damage
LET WOF BUFF HER POWER STRENGTH

 

looks like now, she is only doing against the infested

[chainchompguy3]

6 hours ago, Casval_Rouge said:

DE also said Volt was about having alternatives to gunplay.  That was when Volt was first designed, yet even in this first playable iteration (for founders that is, not internal of course), he had the exact same kit as he has now, just with some minor differences.  

My point?  Don't read into what they say, because 9/10 times they don't do what they say when it comes to Warframe designs.  They removed Overheat from Ember because she wasn't supposed to be tanky, but gives her no real damage.  Then went on to give Mesa Shatter Shield, whom at launch had easily the most insane, non-interactive, anti-coop ultimate in the game.  

Btw, Ember's original description was a CC oriented Warframe  Now they say she is a glass cannon?  And yet she can't do either of these roles thanks to the changes.    

I don't see your point, then.

 

They made an attempt (A flawed one, I'll admit), to try and do exactly what they set out to do.

She had too much damage reduction than what they saw as acceptable for an offense-focused frame, so they took it away.

Mesa was not hailed as anything other than a gunslinger. She was not given a terribly defined role, other than just being really good with guns.

That's what her kit launched with. Really good guns.

 

And as for "Ember's Origional description was a CC oriented warframe", This video suggests otherwise. While it's not exactly her "original" description, it's the oldest official description I can find.

 

Some quotes to note:

"This is Ember, destructive, and deadly"

"Sacrificing safety for reckless abandon, she erupts into battle"

"Ember's abilities offset her fragility with pure offensive capability"

 

The only one that really suggests CC relation is "Ember's presence on the battlefield is devastating. Mind the heat, tenno".

But that's quite a stretch of a connection, considering the rest of the video.

 

 

 

 

=====Edit: The rest of this post is meant more for the people who are complaining about the Ember changes.=====

 

Looking at the thread I just linked to, above, the most prominent, first comment has a bit of a reasonable argument that might be a good one to re-purpose here.

 

Ember is intended to be a damage-focused, low survivability frame.

However, through every single one of her iterations, she has become something other than that.

In the Overheat days, she was a Tank with decent damage.

In another point, she was all about CC.

Somewhat recently, she became focused on teamplay/buffing, while also using CC.

 

These alternate uses of her kit are inherently against her initial design.

But that doesn't necessarily make them Wrong.

If people enjoy them, and they aren't game-breaking, then perhaps the smartest thing to do is to let it keep it's current niche, and make a new character to fill the niche they failed to stay in.

 

DE didn't do that in the past, nor now, and they've changed ember to try an fit her into her intended niche.

As we've all been saying over-and-over, though, they've failed.

Her niche, the glass-cannon, requires much more up-to-date mechanics to work in this new-warframe.

Flat damage abilities simply don't cut it anymore.

Fragility of this level simply can't even get in the door without getting one-shot by a hit-scan normal enemy.

The game simply doesn't allow for this playstyle, at least not in this iteration of it.

 

Saying Ember needs to go back because It's too weak isn't terribly impactful. It's too easily overlooked as "Players always whine when they aren't getting a buff".

But arguing that Ember should go back because old ember is more fun and fitting than new ember, if it has enough backing, is a majority opinion that is kind of stupid to ignore.

 

If they don't want Ember to leave the Niche, she needs an overhaul (and perhaps the game does too), but then they also need to make a new frame to take her old-niche's place.

If they're willing to yield, and re-purpose Ember to her player-decided niches, then they have a clean, open slate to design a real, better Glass Cannon.

 

Hopefully, DE takes at least one of these routes.

Many people enjoy ember's current gameplay, as is evidenced by the amount of backlash. To completely get rid of it isn't very considerate of your players.

@GTG3000 made that Argument just under 5 years ago, and we're still trying to re-state it to this day.

Edited February 11, 2018 by chainchompguy3
Sorry, Casval_Rouge.

[LordCiro]

So giving it a go today and yeah.

Her 1 is pretty nice now. a decrease in casting time should make it charge up faster if not making duration or strength do that, it should also last longer with duration. Also it would be nice if the Augment could pass to allies via the left over fire? (would also be awesome if something similar happened with the other augments like that.)

With 3 I haven't noticed it adding fire damage. Maybe a visible buff while in the ring of fire could help show that?

Basically WOF scales from 0 to 100% way way too fast. if it was 10 secs at 0 with a 20 sec warm up to 100 that would be way way better for what they were wanting. Even better if scaled with duration so that long lasting builds could run it for a while under the long range vs the high damage. OR could we have the old Overheat back <3 ill take either.

 

[(PSN)SilverwindNarga]

Until she is properly fixed and DE doesnt screw up her end game by making firequake worthless since I need that slot now im just done with this game. Its not fun having an ember kill everything but its less fun forcing us to farm in low level missions DE so how bout you fix that first

[Casval_Rouge]

4 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

I don't see your point, then.

.......

 

First off, that video is hardly the oldest official description of her.  The original was when she was first available in closed beta.  But my point was that what DE say about Warframe designs aren't usually accurate to what really happens.  And people are allowed to change their minds, things change over time, I'm not faulting them for that, I'm just saying to just take it as a grain of salt in regards to these topics.  

As for the rest of that, I've never said anything about going back to anything, I never even said anything about bringing back Overheat, Because I don't agree with that either.  I said DE needs to pick a theme for Ember, and actually design and build a kit around that.  Her kit is so weak design-wise that I'd rather they just go back to the drawing board on this Warframe.  No amount of tweaks are going to fix her, especially in regards to WoF. 

I'm saying, I don't accept "Ember is decent now", or "Ember isn't terrible", or "Ember is not the worst".  I expect very high standards for any Warframes because that's a huge part of the combat, the customization, and progression of the game.  And in my opinion, Ember is not good enough.  Tweaks to numbers aren't going to change my opinion on that.  I'm not going to praise and accept her changes even if Fireball can one shot a level 140 Bombard, or survive a direct hit from it because that's not what I'm asking for.  I want her kit to have better interactions, more depth, enables more builds and loadout choices, specialization and customizations.  I want that for every Warframe by the way, I just find DE's history with Ember changes, even to this day to be the most infuriating to me.  I could at least say they did a pretty good job on reworking Excalibur and Rhino, and Nidus was one of the best in terms of quality right from release.  But I can't say the same for Ember, or Ash, or Oberon, or Sayrn, or Volt, a few more.        

 

[chainchompguy3]

22 minutes ago, Casval_Rouge said:

As for the rest of that, I've never said anything about going back to anything...

Ah, sorry, I guess I should have clarified. Most of the second half of that post was me having a bit of a public think-to-myself. I ended up forgetting that I was still technically directly addressing this to you.

Basically the only thing directed towards you was the video thing.

Sorry about that :P.

[Casval_Rouge]

1 minute ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Ah, sorry, I guess I should have clarified. Most of the second half of that post was me having a bit of a public think-to-myself. I ended up forgetting that I was still technically directly addressing this to you.

Basically the only thing directed towards you was the video thing.

Sorry about that :P.

Ok no problem

[GolDraG]

i guess i wount write anything new.

mained and used ember for mostly cc in high lvl missions.

funny thing though... thats kinda increase grind, wount it. before u max out ember as mutch as u can and when needed u just run through low lvl missions for something, and rewert to cc build for playing in high lvls, now ... well... not mutch use since u can get beter results with weaps or other frames instead

anyway, after rework i dont realy see a reason to take her out exept maybe coz ill miss her.

 

to DE: there should hawe been beter ways to do this and there are way more anoying combos in game that this one 4.

 

now its high risk and no reward for geting shot and kiled by grineers thats few meters away from you ...

 

p.s not a newbie, just dont write in forums often, playing game since closed beta

Edited February 11, 2018 by GolDraG

[Terrornaut]

17 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

I'm just a bit confused here.

DE very clearly states the following.

Yet, a good 95% of the comments demand to bring the survivability back.

If they are to stick to what they say Ember is supposed to be, that's not really an option.

She's supposed to be a glass-cannon. Stop trying to give her Damage-reduction/CC.

 

I understand that survivability is pretty dang key to warframe now-a-days.

I also understand that at high levels, her damage is pretty dang weak from scaling.

So I understand that she basically ends up being a glass-water-pistol, rather than a glass-cannon.

 

But that doesn't mean she needs to bend to the rest of the game.

Playing as a glass cannon is one of the most basic playstyles in existence.

If the game is built in such a way that it's completely unviable to play that way, then that means the Game has failed to support those players who play that way.

If the game can't make their signature, poster-girl glass-cannon work, they need to fix that, because they are making the game far less enjoyable for a large portion of their audience.

 

I don't care how they do it.

Make Caster/ability damage completely percentage based.

Add a new system, where players can more actively predict and avoid attacks that could one-shot them.

Buff heat damage to ridiculousness.

Make health gated, so that damage-per-5-seconds is capped to half health, or something of the sort.

Fix the gosh-danged scaling for once.

Again, I don't care.

 

But this is a sign of a broken game, not a broken character.

Made a lot. of posts about Ember but this is probably one of the most important ones I've seen. Seriously.

 

Also Casval's bit about them and intent, and basically failing with every rework they've done with her is not far from the mark. I don't know what their aversion is to making her work, but then they go and release do-it-all gods like Nidus and Octavia and somehow that's ok? I can understand power creep with weapons to a degree, but it shouldn't be that way with frames.

She is still a nightmare to build for. She needs every stat and now having to sacrifice stats hurts even more.  The only good productive work to come out of these changed was fireball, and that still needs better charge time or to scale higher than 2x for its charge time since you can accomplish a full charge with 2 quick casts in much, much less time.  Fireblast is still garbage and now just nagging slightly to be used, and WoF you can basically ignore changes depending on build or recasting so what was the point?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Terrornaut