Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Zephyr's "rework" is a disaster. She gained nothing and has lost more than was promised. Please hear a Zephyr main out.


Cryssoberyl
 Share

Recommended Posts

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Caelward:

.

@(PS4)CoolD2108

Unbiased opinions is what you're worried about? How is it not valuable to have the opinions of fully invested and highly passionate players. 

 

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Caelward:

See here you run into the 'my opinion is the only truth' problem.

You opinion is YOUR opinion. While it may be true for you, that by no means means it has to be true for everyone.

Suggesting otherwise is an insult.

 

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)salovel1991:

I don't know he gave a lot of evidence and you just left an opinion. Opinions are far more subjective than play tested evidence. If what he says is true; which I've seen similar statements from other players about Tornadoe, Air Burst, and Tailwind then I'd have to say she does sound worse. 

Don't mind me quoting yourself and sal on that subject. As you've choosen your words correctly, it's a oppinion you're stating here, a biased one at that rather then solid, neutral testresults on a appropiate build, which you didn't use as mentioned here

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Caelward:

It was max duration that was meta in order to better use her turbulence. Now it's even more powerfully encouraged.

since it isn't encouraged as both, high strength and high duration for the cost of range can and will not perform any way but poorly by the looks of it...

So instead of flashing around, you get stuck. Instead of getting results from abilitys that need range, you point out that the range is not there. Instead of using the Cc to your advantage, you get killed...Most of your points literally boil down to the build i assumed you would use from the sound of it....

After that is said and done, what is it that's left? Your dissapointment that DE didn't read your mind, or, assumingly the threads you made prior?...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Don't mind me quoting yourself and sal on that subject. As you've choosen youwords correctly, it's a oppinion you're stating here, a biased one at that rather then solid, neutral testresults on a appropiate build, which you didn't use as mentioned here

This here is what bothers me about your statement. Unbiased opinion is a foolish notion. If our opinion wasn't biased, then we wouldn't care. If we didn't care, why would be even be looking at Zephyr. We literally wouldn't be here and we would not even be using that frame. Our opinions matter because we care. I'll not have you sit there on your soapbox and say that something I really care about is worth little more than dirt merely because it's something I care about.

Especially since unless you can come here with a solid full post fully explaining all the actions you've taken to make sure you've fully done your research without any consideration given to your own wants and thoughts explaining your understanding you are doing little more than throwing your own bias at me.

 

My problem isn't strength and range. It is the base functionality changes to tailwind and the apparent lack of consideration for years of feedback for the bulk of the rest of the changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Caelward:

My problem isn't strength and range. 

 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Cryssoberyl:

.

Skill #1, Tail Wind. The horizontal movement portion of this skill is as clunky as it ever was. You still cannot change direction, still cannot cancel it by rolling or jumping. It does travel faster and farther now for a given build, but that may or may not be desireable as you will find yourself cannoning into walls and obstacles and having to wait out the animation.

Strength

You can charge less but you also get less height and less hover time.This is not affected by the strength stat.

Doesn't work with strength

Skill #2, Air Burst. This skill, the desperately needed new skill that was supposed to help give Zephyr new life, is nothing more or less than a slow, weak, difficult to aim projectile that has a small explosion on impact. That's it. There is, simply, no reason to ever use this skill at all, not even to "enlarge" Tornadoes (see below).

Range

Skill #3, Turbulence. Zephyr's very lifeblood, her single useful ability up until now. At least it was left alone and unchanged, right? No, it wasn't. Turbulence has been nerfed by its unnecessary and unasked for "new unique animation", which is just a casting animation - a much longer casting animation than it had previously. A casting animation that will get you killed when you need to reactivate Turbulence, which you need to frequently and continuously do all the time, forever. Turbulence has been nerfed by this change, make no mistake.

No Cc as no Range

But it gets worse, much worse. Jet Stream is now slower than it was for a given power strength. At 175% Power Strength, which is what I have long run, it is unambiguously slower than before. Jet Stream has been nerfed.

Strength, or possibly a different Strength ratio as they've did with Nekros, what quite literally would give better results for the lower strength too

Skill #4, Tornado.  the only difference is that they are not flung away like before. 

Possibly range

 Finally, "enlarging" the tornadoes by using Air Burst on them appears to have no noticeable effect on their horizontal pickup range.

Definitly Range

 

Excuse me, what was that?

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 

Excuse me, what was that?

 

22 minutes ago, Caelward said:

My problem isn't strength and range. It is the base functionality changes to tailwind and the apparent lack of consideration for years of feedback for the bulk of the rest of the changes.

You're getting me confused with other posters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok guys, I've solved the issues. Might make or edit my thread tomorrow with this as my main post, but I'm submitting it to you all first to review as I want your thoughts on the matter. This has been thus far been exceptionally well received so here's hoping you all give your support as well to it.

Tailwind alteration: press 1 for standard quick burst that's steerable. Charge for forward flight (not sure if it should drain or not, we'll discuss that later) and we take the divebomb aspect and make it respond to collision of surfaces and enemies.Meaning that if you're flying in a horizontal direction and hit a wall, BAM! Divebomb in the direciton you're traveling(not at the ground). Hit an enemy? BAM, divebomb sends enemy flying. This could result in the stopping of the flight, or not and in turn makes her a flying bulldozer. This will also make her augment for the ability MUCH more useful for damage application. Press and hold spacebar to engage the hover ,which allows for quick and precise direction change as well as tactical attacks.So all current effects of tailwind are still present, just reshuffled in such a way as to remedy the issues inherent within the ability itself

What this solves: This handles the issue of ramming into walls due to high duration builds, enemies not being effected by collision from tailwind, and allows for actual controlled flight, makes hitting enemies and/or walls not be a wast of time/possible death sentence, and finally keeps titania from stepping on the back of her neck while screaming "who's your daddy!?"

Air burst: pretty easy fix here. Simply increase the area of effect, travel speed of the projectile, and give whatever it collides with a lasting duration of the effect of CC. Make it hit faster, wider, and last a bit so as to effect enemies that come into contact with the effect after it's been cast. Essentially give it some residual and it'll be good, maybe a slight damage buff as well, but we can discuss that later.

What this solves: Gives more controlled CC that can be used reactively or proactively, improves tactical combat effectiveness, and provides some decent damage output.

Turbulence: reduce the casting time (it's still so pretty to watch) so it's just as fast as it used to be, and undo the stealth nerf to jet stream. Also make jet stream applicable to the tailwind flight mode.

What this solves: the minute unnecessary nerf to turbulence and jetstream, putting it back where it used to be which is to say "perfection".

Tornado: Make tornado a single, larger tornado that doesn't follow your cursor, give it an increased draw range and have tornado contain the enemies within the center of the tornado clumped up and helpless, similar to vortex or larva, while maintaining the "shoot to thrill" mechanic of the ult. Make funnel cloud augment function as tornado currently functions. Tornado now being a single cyclone should be cast at the location of the cursor, and should be able to be disengaged at will instead of duration based. Dial down the sound and remove the screen shake, blammo. Done. 

What this solves: the absolute pain in the neck slower-than-two-snails-boinking-on-an-ice-cube travel speed is now gone, the tornado can be placed where and when it's needed most instead of relying on the tornado to make it's way to where you want it "eventually". This also prevents having to babysit the ability by always being forced to keep the tornadoes between yourself and the enemies. This change also allows you to use the rest of the kit without restricting your movements, and prevents enemies from floating around and being tossed out of the tornado which inherently invalidates the "shoot nado for deeps" mechanic that DE has chosen to implement.

Edited by ObviousLee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor einer Stunde schrieb Caelward:

 

You're getting me confused with other posters.

mh, my bad, guess i didn't elaborate enough just why i refered to the original post...

That's pretty much what i've been saying here from the beginning. There's a lotta flaws for that beein a base to talk about and definitly OP's issue with this. The point that OP's issues overlap with the build you use, which is far from approiate for that new setup remains. For refusing to play it as it's most likely intendet, you're awfully quick to judge...is this not what makes that bias? Did you even give it a chance before comming here? Cause i kinda fail to see how any of this would make issues, from a tornado that shares similaritys to mags magnetize, to a setup that allows you to stay airbourne, avoid damage, deal Cc and feed the tornado on the correct build. A final say will have to hold out until consoles get a hold of it too but simple resistance cause they didn't crown you the father of the idea can't be the agenda here, can it?

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Tailwind alteration: press 1 for standard quick burst that's steerable. Charge for forward flight (not sure if it should drain or not, we'll discuss that later) and we take the divebomb aspect and make it respond to collision of surfaces and enemies.Meaning that if you're flying in a horizontal direction and hit a wall, BAM! Divebomb in the direciton you're traveling(not at the ground). Hit an enemy? BAM, divebomb sends enemy flying. This could result in the stopping of the flight, or not and in turn makes her a flying bulldozer. This will also make her augment for the ability MUCH more useful for damage application. Press and hold spacebar to engage the hover ,which allows for quick and precise direction change as well as tactical attacks.So all current effects of tailwind are still present, just reshuffled in such a way as to remedy the issues inherent within the ability itself.

I like this version of tailwind. Just the part of using spacebar to engage hover is kind of strange imo. Why not make right mouse button hover instead of aim glide or make aim glide much slower (hovery) and reset bullet jump?

Do you or other Zephyr veterans feel like this rework was done only thinking of playing on the plains? Reading these comments I kind of get the feeling that is the case at least somewhat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Tailwind alteration: press 1 for standard quick burst that's steerable. Charge for forward flight (not sure if it should drain or not, we'll discuss that later) and we take the divebomb aspect and make it respond to collision of surfaces and enemies.Meaning that if you're flying in a horizontal direction and hit a wall, BAM! Divebomb in the direciton you're traveling(not at the ground). Hit an enemy? BAM, divebomb sends enemy flying. This could result in the stopping of the flight, or not and in turn makes her a flying bulldozer. This will also make her augment for the ability MUCH more useful for damage application. Press and hold spacebar to engage the hover ,which allows for quick and precise direction change as well as tactical attacks.So all current effects of tailwind are still present, just reshuffled in such a way as to remedy the issues inherent within the ability itself

Okay, so I'm a console pleb, so obviously I haven't tried the changes yet, although I've been reading about them which made me quite sad. I do want to share my thoughts on Tailwind and which direction it should take in my opinion.

So the most fun time for me was when the double jump boost was still in and you could boost yourself from Tailwind to reach incredible speeds and distance, so why not take similar approach and have Tailwind being controlled by different mid-Tailwind inputs, which with a bit of practice would give you really good controls of your distance and stuff you want to do with your Tailwind.

So it will be something like this.

Regular Tailwind goes somewhere around 15-20 meters. If you press Jump you significantly boost yourself forward to like 40-50 meters distance. If you need more distance you can transition it into Aim Glide, while preserving most of your momentum. Pressing Crouch at any moment cancels Tailwind. Pressing melee attack at any moment transitions you into Dive Bomb (if you aim it downwards, then you can actually aim your Dive Bomb at an angle in like a 90 degree cone below you, otherwise it just goes straight down, like it used to). Also at any moment you can recast Tailwind to quickly change the direction.

This would give Zephyr so much more control over distance, if you want to Dive Bomb while you're already midair you just cast tailwind towards the ground and immediately press Melee.

"Hover mode" is removed, and replaced by upgrading Zephyr's passive with more duration and less descending on Aim Glide, making you nearly hover with it, while also providing you with some better Aim Glide directional controls. Ground launch works as it used to, with the default height being around 12-15 meters, but you can charge it for 1-2 seconds to go higher.

Another thing is with much more distance control, I'm not sure Duration actually should affect your tailwind distance anymore, because you can make it go really far without it, and huge duration will make it harder to go short distances on more enclosed tilesets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Okay, so I'm a console pleb, so obviously I haven't tried the changes yet, although I've been reading about them which made me quite sad. I do want to share my thoughts on Tailwind and which direction it should take in my opinion.

So the most fun time for me was when the double jump boost was still in and you could boost yourself from Tailwind to reach incredible speeds and distance, so why not take similar approach and have Tailwind being controlled by different mid-Tailwind inputs, which with a bit of practice would give you really good controls of your distance and stuff you want to do with your Tailwind.

So it will be something like this.

Regular Tailwind goes somewhere around 15-20 meters. If you press Jump you significantly boost yourself forward to like 40-50 meters distance. If you need more distance you can transition it into Aim Glide, while preserving most of your momentum. Pressing Crouch at any moment cancels Tailwind. Pressing melee attack at any moment transitions you into Dive Bomb (if you aim it downwards, then you can actually aim your Dive Bomb at an angle in like a 90 degree cone below you, otherwise it just goes straight down, like it used to). Also at any moment you can recast Tailwind to quickly change the direction.

This would give Zephyr so much more control over distance, if you want to Dive Bomb while you're already midair you just cast tailwind towards the ground and immediately press Melee.

"Hover mode" is removed, and replaced by upgrading Zephyr's passive with more duration and less descending on Aim Glide, making you nearly hover with it, while also providing you with some better Aim Glide directional controls. Ground launch works as it used to, with the default height being around 12-15 meters, but you can charge it for 1-2 seconds to go higher.

Another thing is with much more distance control, I'm not sure Duration actually should affect your tailwind distance anymore, because you can make it go really far without it, and huge duration will make it harder to go short distances on more enclosed tilesets.

I say no because nothing in your response here addresses the mechanical issues of tailwind. You can essentially already do what you're suggesting in your current build of zephyr,which still houses the inherent issues my suggestion above rectified. Forgive me if I'm coming across as irritated, as I'm trying my best not to, but it's  exceptionally frustrating to lay out in depth information on how to not only repair damaged trust in a group of developers who've blatantly ignored(at least that's how it feels) zephyr players and mains, but also a well laid out suggestion that addresses the issues of the abilities for a suggestion that basically offers exactly the same issues she currently has. Why anyone wants less control over their zephyr makes literally no sense to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

I say no because nothing in your response here addresses the mechanical issues of tailwind. You can essentially already do what you're suggesting in your current build of zephyr,which still houses the inherent issues my suggestion above rectified. Forgive me if I'm coming across as irritated, as I'm trying my best not to, but it's  exceptionally frustrating to lay out in depth information on how to not only repair damaged trust in a group of developers who've blatantly ignored(at least that's how it feels) zephyr players and mains, but also a well laid out suggestion that addresses the issues of the abilities for a suggestion that basically offers exactly the same issues she currently has. Why anyone wants less control over their zephyr makes literally no sense to me. 

Actually not to sound offensive, but what does your suggestion actually fix? Steerable Tailwind would feel kinda awkward to be honest, I much prefer the straight dashes and being able to look anywhere while I'm mid-dash, instead of trying to steer your dash with your camera, which would feel terrible to me. Auto Dive Bomb on collision also sounds quite irritating. I can already imagine trying to fly past enemies or small boxes and constantly activating Dive bomb by accident (remember Archwing and annoying bumps on every other wall in closed tilesets). I would rather have enemies not have any collision at all, when you're in Tailwind, but you still do some basic Tailwind damage to them and some status effects maybe.

Also while you're partially right, that we can (or could) do some of the stuff I described, but it was all quite clumsy. Aim Glide doesn't really keep your momentum (at least not since the Double Jump boost nerf). You can't even boost yourself with double jump any significantly. You can't recast Tailwind midflight. Not to mention that quick Divebomb activation would give much more control over when you ACTUALLY want to use Dive Bomb, without taking the entire ability slot. There's no more "Oops, I wanted just to fly past them" moments, which inevitably almost any other merge of Tailwind and Divebomb has. You could even make it omni directional like you suggest, and actually make it so you DO impact with enemies and walls if you transitioned into Dive Bomb with Melee button press.

I suggest to go this route, because all of that is essentially the main draw of Zephyr's playstyle to me. Those dashes around the map, with different "boost" levels. It is what makes her very fun to play, and not steerable Tailwind or gimmicky hover mode.

Edited by (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh the drama! "four years of neglect"?  Really? have you been here for four years? Because i have. Turbulence has been changed at LEAST 3 times alone lol. 

Zephyr only got in a bad spot once parkour 2.0 shipped. Even then, she was still perfectly fine. And now, she's better. Maybe not the god tier like  zephyr mains wanted, but shes perfectly usable, will always have the high ground WITH bullet reflection, not to mention how strong aviator is for those rare bullets that get through the turbulence. 

Granted, i havent found the use of tornados like i had envisioned, but i also only played her for an hour so far because atlas and mag are so damn fun. 

Edited by Buddhakingpen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stated proposed changes in megathread

tl;dr:
1) Tailwind - get rid of charging to takeoff and bring old takeoff back. Press jump during tailwind to hover. Hold 1 to have a marker, release to divebomb on the marker.
2) Airbust - faster, stronger, has punch-through when colliding enemies, explode on environment, forced bleed
3) Turbulence - speed up cast or allow to recast
4) Tornadoes - faster, nearby tornado doesnt pull enemy that is sucked by other tornado, tornadoes chase after closest non-affected enemy, hold 4 to guide all of them like Guided Effigy augment. Projectiles passing through charge the damage.

At other side, Funnel Clouds gaining physical damage now at least do something. Damage is still pathetic against armor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Caelward said:

Just what could we do with Zephyr before the Patch?

Have a look see. I have also played this game and I loved zipping around in the air raining explosive death on my enemies. This was Zephyr in motion.

  Hide contents

 

If you're good, you should still be able to do... some of this. But a close look will help you realize many of the movement tricks here have been outright removed.

 

I'd like to give credit to the original poster, but I'm not going to look through the dev workshop megathread to go find his name.

This is old gameplay of mine.

Good luck with your Zephyr issues. I've dropped the frame and will no longer leave feedback on her. Thanks DE. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

This is old gameplay of mine.

Good luck with your Zephyr issues. I've dropped the frame and will no longer leave feedback on her. Thanks DE. 

I think I may be in the same boat as you now.

Which is unfortunate, because Zephyr was literally my favorite part of the game up until now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Actually not to sound offensive, but what does your suggestion actually fix? Steerable Tailwind would feel kinda awkward to be honest, I much prefer the straight dashes and being able to look anywhere while I'm mid-dash, instead of trying to steer your dash with your camera, which would feel terrible to me.

Making Tail Wind steerable means you can make sure the enemy doesn't dodge you with a comically effortless sidestep.

Your reply here seems to come across the lines of, "Man, I prefer to woosh right past the enemy when using Tail Wind. Oh, but maneuvering myself more precisely towards my target just sounds pointless!" Don't do that to yourself, dude. :[

Edited by WrathOfKarma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Caelward said:

I think I may be in the same boat as you now.

Which is unfortunate, because Zephyr was literally my favorite part of the game up until now.

After the first rework thread I thought maybe they had a vision of what they wanted for Zephyr but after the second it was clear that they not only have no idea but didn't bother to read any of the threads made on Zephyr in the past year. I've commented on at least 90% of them. 

My own thread has the most upvotes (or perhaps Thayliens now) as far as rework suggestions go that didn't even alter abilities. I even explained the weaknesses in the misguided concepts that constantly plague Zephyr as well as in the new rework before it went live. However it's clear to me that DE doesn't read the forums or just doesn't care.

Well neither do I! Just thought I owed you an explanation. 

I anticipated this in one of my final comments involving the Zephyr rework. Players who don't play Zephyr will just praise DE for the sake doing something to her while people who enjoy the frame prior will have to suffer through clunky mechanics and useless tweaks. Then those players will proceed to drop Zephyr when the new shiny releases and you'll be left with the remains.

Well that's all, good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Actually not to sound offensive, but what does your suggestion actually fix? Steerable Tailwind would feel kinda awkward to be honest, I much prefer the straight dashes and being able to look anywhere while I'm mid-dash, instead of trying to steer your dash with your camera, which would feel terrible to me. Auto Dive Bomb on collision also sounds quite irritating. I can already imagine trying to fly past enemies or small boxes and constantly activating Dive bomb by accident (remember Archwing and annoying bumps on every other wall in closed tilesets). I would rather have enemies not have any collision at all, when you're in Tailwind, but you still do some basic Tailwind damage to them and some status effects maybe.

Also while you're partially right, that we can (or could) do some of the stuff I described, but it was all quite clumsy. Aim Glide doesn't really keep your momentum (at least not since the Double Jump boost nerf). You can't even boost yourself with double jump any significantly. You can't recast Tailwind midflight. Not to mention that quick Divebomb activation would give much more control over when you ACTUALLY want to use Dive Bomb, without taking the entire ability slot. There's no more "Oops, I wanted just to fly past them" moments, which inevitably almost any other merge of Tailwind and Divebomb has. You could even make it omni directional like you suggest, and actually make it so you DO impact with enemies and walls if you transitioned into Dive Bomb with Melee button press.

I suggest to go this route, because all of that is essentially the main draw of Zephyr's playstyle to me. Those dashes around the map, with different "boost" levels. It is what makes her very fun to play, and not steerable Tailwind or gimmicky hover mode.

What does my suggestion fix? I really need to clarify something already crystal clear? Aight then here goes. 

 

It fixes being locked into an animation that has you stuck in the wall, or stuck in an enemy to no effect. It fixes the issue of having no control during flight. Or fixes her not having actual flight. It makes air burst more versatile and tactical. It makes the charge up actually have value without leaving you as a sitting duck. It fixes the stealth nerf to turbulence and jet stream. It makes the ultimate now cohesive and dependable. So again, I don't understand how or why anyone would want less control over their frame, which is effectively what you're asking for. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

Tailwind alteration: press 1 for standard quick burst that's steerable. Charge for forward flight (not sure if it should drain or not, we'll discuss that later) and we take the divebomb aspect and make it respond to collision of surfaces and enemies.Meaning that if you're flying in a horizontal direction and hit a wall, BAM! Divebomb in the direciton you're traveling(not at the ground). Hit an enemy? BAM, divebomb sends enemy flying. This could result in the stopping of the flight, or not and in turn makes her a flying bulldozer. This will also make her augment for the ability MUCH more useful for damage application. Press and hold spacebar to engage the hover ,which allows for quick and precise direction change as well as tactical attacks.So all current effects of tailwind are still present, just reshuffled in such a way as to remedy the issues inherent within the ability itself

Not sure if the "Hold for forward flight" idea would work too well. It'd really only be useful on the Plains, but Tailwind right now is already useful enough for that. I say take the Divebomb on collision with a surface and just make that part of Tailwind as it is

1 hour ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Actually not to sound offensive, but what does your suggestion actually fix? Steerable Tailwind would feel kinda awkward to be honest, I much prefer the straight dashes and being able to look anywhere while I'm mid-dash, instead of trying to steer your dash with your camera, which would feel terrible to me. Auto Dive Bomb on collision also sounds quite irritating. I can already imagine trying to fly past enemies or small boxes and constantly activating Dive bomb by accident (remember Archwing and annoying bumps on every other wall in closed tilesets). I would rather have enemies not have any collision at all, when you're in Tailwind, but you still do some basic Tailwind damage to them and some status effects maybe.

I'm on board with enemies not counting as collision, but everything else should count as collision. If you snag onto those small boxes with our current Tailwind...you're just stuck going nowhere. If i hit something that I didn't intend to hit, I'd rather Tailwind stopped me and  let me go on with my day instead of taking 3 seconds to say "oh wait we didn't go anywhere".

 

 

Also with hover, why not just make it activate by holding 1 mid-air? The player gets to set the height that way. And allow Zephyr to move as if she was walking, but slowly decrease her height when she does. Hover will reset all parkour skills, allowing her to roll or bullet jump out of it easily.

I know people are saying "Aim Glide is good enough" but we have this mechanic, a lot of people actually like it (myself included), so why not just improve it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

What does my suggestion fix? I really need to clarify something already crystal clear? Aight then here goes. 

 

It fixes being locked into an animation that has you stuck in the wall, or stuck in an enemy to no effect. It fixes the issue of having no control during flight. Or fixes her not having actual flight. It makes air burst more versatile and tactical. It makes the charge up actually have value without leaving you as a sitting duck. It fixes the stealth nerf to turbulence and jet stream. It makes the ultimate now cohesive and dependable. So again, I don't understand how or why anyone would want less control over their frame, which is effectively what you're asking for. 

Okay I'll ignore everything not related to Tailwind, because I never said anything about it. But
1) It fixes being locked into an animation that has you stuck in the wall, or stuck in an enemy to no effect

So does canceling Tailwind with a button press, or actually controlling the amount of boost you get regardless of what your Duration is. If you don't want to get stuck on the wall, you don't make a long boost into a wall. If you accidentally did, you press a button which instantly gets you out of animation and stops all your momentum. And like I said, enemies should just not have any collision at all, when you're in Tailwind animation, pretty sure that's how it works for Rhino Charge.

2) It fixes the issue of having no control during flight. Or fixes her not having actual flight.

Does she really need that though? Quick dashes and controlled flight offer different playstyles. It's been a topic about Zephyr for years now, and there's always people who think that she needs a "flight mode" or some other kind of control, while others stick more to how Zephyr currently works, with short bursts of speed, the method which I also prefer.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

Can you read my above post and tell me your thoughts? 

This man is genius.

Quote

press 1 for standard quick burst that's steerable. Charge for forward flight and we take the divebomb aspect and make it respond to collision of surfaces and enemies.

This will also make her augment for the ability MUCH more useful for damage application.

Press and hold spacebar to engage the hover ,which allows for quick and precise direction change as well as tactical attacks.

This is utter gold right here DE.

Make Zephyrica great again (2018).

 

I can just picture this on the plains.  Zephyr kamikaze divebombing through those stupid Grineer dropships with air contrails streaming behind in her wake.

And the augment causing it to scale.

Mwahahaha.

Edited by LordEcks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Okay I'll ignore everything not related to Tailwind, because I never said anything about it. But
1) It fixes being locked into an animation that has you stuck in the wall, or stuck in an enemy to no effect

So does canceling Tailwind with a button press, or actually controlling the amount of boost you get regardless of what your Duration is. If you don't want to get stuck on the wall, you don't make a long boost into a wall. If you accidentally did, you press a button which instantly gets you out of animation and stops all your momentum. And like I said, enemies should just not have any collision at all, when you're in Tailwind animation, pretty sure that's how it works for Rhino Charge.

2) It fixes the issue of having no control during flight. Or fixes her not having actual flight.

Does she really need that though? Quick dashes and controlled flight offer different playstyles. It's been a topic about Zephyr for years now, and there's always people who think that she needs a "flight mode" or some other kind of control, while others stick more to how Zephyr currently works, with short bursts of speed, the method which I also prefer.

 

1. your solution is not a solution at all. You want an extra button to perform the same function as adjusting your aim could achieve. That's a bad argument, honestly. My suggestion requires no additional presses, and only a minute aim change that has desired effect of being able to dictate where you're going in travel. It gives greater freedom and control. And what magic tapout button cancels tailwind? In the old system sure you could tap the sprint key to disengage tailwind. guess that they patched out? The only way for tailwind to end now, is for its duration to end. That's it.

2. Does a frame covered in flight surfaces with 75% of her kit named and themed after aviation need to fly when the mechanic is already present and why is the answer yes? There's literally zero excuse for her to not be able to have some manner of sustained flight. Especially when Titania steps on her thematics and dominates her kit in almost every aspect with the exception of damage mitigation. Zephyr is still a direct downgrade to Titania in both their roles in combat and category of the ability.

So your counter argument to making divebomb be a collision detected reaction is you want less crowd control, on a frame that centers around mobility and crowd control. How does that make any sense?

if you don't want to collide with enemies, you can tilt your aim during flight to avoid them, and if you do want to cause cc, you hit them straight on. As I mentioned earlier, whether the flight is maintained and she acts as an aerial bulldozer, or it stops her dead on enemy hit is up for debate. But what I'm seeing, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong here, is that you're trying to inhibit a diverse kit that allows for various playstyles.

 

Your suggestion effectively keeps her as is. My suggestion allows her to be played as is or in a slightly different manner, but the main thing of importance is now one would have a choice in the matter.

 

How? tap tailwind, it functions as it does now as a quick burst of speed, but you can completely control the direction. Don't want to control the direction? Don't change your your targeting cursor's direction. Want to change your burst flight direction? Change your targeting cursors direction. Want to use the hover mechanic? Hold jump. Don't want to use it? Don't hold jump. Want to actually fly and be able to maximize the tailwind augment? You can! Want to capitalize on it only situationally? You can!

An indisputable fact is that tailwind is useless when you hit a wall or an enemy. It does literally no effect to them. Why would you want an ability to not have an effect on an enemy in some meaningful way?

 

So as I've said a few times before, why do you wan't less control over your warframe?

Edited by ObviousLee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, EchoesOfRain said:

Not sure if the "Hold for forward flight" idea would work too well. It'd really only be useful on the Plains, but Tailwind right now is already useful enough for that. I say take the Divebomb on collision with a surface and just make that part of Tailwind as it is

I'm on board with enemies not counting as collision, but everything else should count as collision. If you snag onto those small boxes with our current Tailwind...you're just stuck going nowhere. If i hit something that I didn't intend to hit, I'd rather Tailwind stopped me and  let me go on with my day instead of taking 3 seconds to say "oh wait we didn't go anywhere".

 

 

Also with hover, why not just make it activate by holding 1 mid-air? The player gets to set the height that way. And allow Zephyr to move as if she was walking, but slowly decrease her height when she does. Hover will reset all parkour skills, allowing her to roll or bullet jump out of it easily.

I know people are saying "Aim Glide is good enough" but we have this mechanic, a lot of people actually like it (myself included), so why not just improve it?

essentially the hold for forward means that charging up tailwind will propel you forward similar to how it does now, except it's sustained instead of burst. Pressing 1 and then pressing the jump button would still engage the hover. no need to charge up for an ability that can now be instantly used and has some actual merit to it.

as for the hover, why hold one which is awkward to do in the first place when spacebar can still be pressed with full use of the rest of the key commands at your disposal? Being in constant flight and not having to have your hands all caddywumpus on the controls still allows the user to dictate a stopping point. Pressing and holding, or just pushing it, either or is good honestly, still gives the user the ability to decide where and when the flight is halted and hover is engaged.

Edited by ObviousLee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...