Here is chroma changes

[NezuHimeSama]

7 hours ago, (XB1)MassTerror23 said:

What roar build do you have that puts rhinos dmg boost higher than choma’s?

Rhino's boost can get up to 2.865. With hornet strike, auger pact, and a good damage riven, you can wind up with ~700% damage on a pistol, at which point, Chroma's boost is just over 2x. On primaries, you can get around +600% with a good riven, heavy cal, and serration, which is pretty close.

The way Chroma's damage applies right now is absolutely broken, and actually lends it's self more strongly to low MR players ranking new weapons, new players without a decent %damage mod, and veteran players making very, very niche builds, specifically built around maximizing Chroma and only Chroma damage, by dropping the damage% mod entirely. Which is often a terrible idea anyway, since it's just 1 mod slot, and you have to overspec other multipliers for it to work, but there's not really enough mods for multishot and crit damage on rifles anyway, which results in rapid diminishing returns as you overspec elemental damage. All for a build that you're only going to use with one frame.

I'd rather it be 4x damage than +800% weapon damage.

 

The real issue is that DE passed it off as fixing the broken math behind Chroma's buff, when in reality, they completely changed the way it applies.

Previously, at 800%, you would get 8x heat/cold/elec/toxin damage and something like 64x radiation, corrosive, blast, viral, magnetic, or gas damage, meaning that a pure elemental weapon on Chroma would suddenly become completely overpowered, and pure physical weapon wouldn't see any benefit. This was a bug.

However, when "fixing" this, they also made it so chroma's damage buff applies into the weapon damage% stack, making it S#&$ the bed on weapons relying on an already high damage stack. This was clearly a revenge-nerf on chroma players making a joke of the eidolon's massive DR and health pool. Which is really bad form, tbqh. The player is not the enemy, and does not need to be vanquished. They are the hidden friend that is the end of your employment chain. Pls stop trying to make things "teh hardqore", as it mostly just turns away a lot of players. Warframe always was, and should remain, a fun casual game where you can excel, but aren't required to.

 

 

That said,

Spoiler

 

 

 

I don't really seem to be able to reproduce this issue.

 

On the other hand, rhino was clearly nerfed and is garbage now.

Spoiler

 

and for good measure, here's nyx being an unstoppable force and an immovable object.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by NezuHimeSama
comparison

[BigPapiPimp]

45 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Rhino's boost can get up to 2.865. With hornet strike, auger pact, and a good damage riven, you can wind up with ~700% damage on a pistol, at which point, Chroma's boost is just over 2x. On primaries, you can get around +600% with a good riven, heavy cal, and serration, which is pretty close.

The way Chroma's damage applies right now is absolutely broken, and actually lends it's self more strongly to low MR players ranking new weapons, new players without a decent %damage mod, and veteran players making very, very niche builds, specifically built around maximizing Chroma and only Chroma damage, by dropping the damage% mod entirely. Which is often a terrible idea anyway, since it's just 1 mod slot, and you have to overspec other multipliers for it to work, but there's not really enough mods for multishot and crit damage on rifles anyway, which results in rapid diminishing returns as you overspec elemental damage. All for a build that you're only going to use with one frame.

I'd rather it be 4x damage than +800% weapon damage.

 

The real issue is that DE passed it off as fixing the broken math behind Chroma's buff, when in reality, they completely changed the way it applies.

Previously, at 800%, you would get 8x heat/cold/elec/toxin damage and something like 64x radiation, corrosive, blast, viral, magnetic, or gas damage, meaning that a pure elemental weapon on Chroma would suddenly become completely overpowered, and pure physical weapon wouldn't see any benefit. This was a bug.

However, when "fixing" this, they also made it so chroma's damage buff applies into the weapon damage% stack, making it S#&$ the bed on weapons relying on an already high damage stack. This was clearly a revenge-nerf on chroma players making a joke of the eidolon's massive DR and health pool. Which is really bad form, tbqh. The player is not the enemy, and does not need to be vanquished. They are the hidden friend that is the end of your employment chain. Pls stop trying to make things "teh hardqore", as it mostly just turns away a lot of players. Warframe always was, and should remain, a fun casual game where you can excel, but aren't required to.

 

 

That said,

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

I don't really seem to be able to reproduce this issue.

 

On the other hand, rhino was clearly nerfed and is garbage now.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

and for good measure, here's nyx being an unstoppable force and an immovable object.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

How high does the % riven have to be for rhino’s buff to be better then chroma’s at equal power strength?

Can you break it down for me?

If it’s fine to be casual but possible to excel, why should people be allowed to casually excel?

I really want to see the riven/build examples your talking about that make rhino the more the superior damage buffer.

from what I’ve seen, the situations you talk about are not more common or superior to the builds chroma excels with, in fact the opposite seems true. Ranged weapons don’t have enough crit mods? Wouldn’t multiple types of elemental damage be better for rhino’s buff?

please help me out here with some evidence.

+1 for calling out people who make dishonest videos.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

On 2/10/2018 at 11:07 PM, Tyrian3k said:

Why do I die if I let myself get killed? - the thread.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Chroma's defense wasn't even touched, so what exactly is the point here? The exact same thing would have happened if you had done the test before the patch.

No, they nerfed all of vex armor so his DR is significantly worse. These gunners would have barely scratched Chroma pre-patch. 

[(PSN)the-creeperman]

In defense of the OPs' video, I think he was just trying to show the amount of damage Chroma can take (which is alot less than what he used to take). I don't think it was meant to be a representation of his playstyle.

Now, i'm not a number cruncher so I have no figures to show how good or bad Chroma is or was. I can only share my experience: 

Occasionally I would use my high power strength and duration fire Chroma with a tweeked Amprex at Hydron for a decent Focus farm. Sometimes solo, sometimes with a random squad but almost always a very fun time. Now I run out of ammo and get killed enough to know that there is definitely a major change with him. And it's not just Hydron either, i've played other missions with him too (ghouls are really kicking him around now) and it's the same everywhere.

I also don't think this was a fix because DE felt he was fine and let him be all this time. But now the Eidolons had something to fear, devs get a bruised ego, and so he gets shut down. I'll call it a "fix" if it's used in the same context as a dog getting "fixed"...

[BigPapiPimp]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)the-creeperman said:

In defense of the OPs' video, I think he was just trying to show the amount of damage Chroma can take (which is alot less than what he used to take). I don't think it was meant to be a representation of his playstyle.

Now, i'm not a number cruncher so I have no figures to show how good or bad Chroma is or was. I can only share my experience: 

Occasionally I would use my high power strength and duration fire Chroma with a tweeked Amprex at Hydron for a decent Focus farm. Sometimes solo, sometimes with a random squad but almost always a very fun time. Now I run out of ammo and get killed enough to know that there is definitely a major change with him. And it's not just Hydron either, i've played other missions with him too (ghouls are really kicking him around now) and it's the same everywhere.

I also don't think this was a fix because DE felt he was fine and let him be all this time. But now the Eidolons had something to fear, devs get a bruised ego, and so he gets shut down. I'll call it a "fix" if it's used in the same context as a dog getting "fixed"...

I agree, this nerf just showed us how terrible the rest of his kit is, how he was just a cheap & selfish frame with one ability: his 3.

I want chroma buffs to survivability, but I hope it comes in the form of an improvement to his 2.

Edited March 16, 2018 by BigPapiPimp

[NezuHimeSama]

11 hours ago, BigPapiPimp said:

How high does the % riven have to be for rhino’s buff to be better then chroma’s at equal power strength?

Can you break it down for me?

If it’s fine to be casual but possible to excel, why should people be allowed to casually excel?

I really want to see the riven/build examples your talking about that make rhino the more the superior damage buffer.

from what I’ve seen, the situations you talk about are not more common or superior to the builds chroma excels with, in fact the opposite seems true. Ranged weapons don’t have enough crit mods? Wouldn’t multiple types of elemental damage be better for rhino’s buff?

please help me out here with some evidence.

+1 for calling out people who make dishonest videos.

I have no idea the exact %, and don't feel like mathing it out. It's not really viable on a lot of weapons, but the fact that Chroma's buff gets weaker the better your weapon is is bad, and should be fixed. Never mind the reduced range.

The idea is because Chroma's buff adds into an existing stack, it's relative effect is diminished by the size of the stack. It's a large buff, but the fact that it can get as small as the baseline Rhino buff, which applies to everything equally, just because you have a good riven is a bad thing.

Because if you can't casually excel, then it's not fine to be casual.

Talking +300 on pistol riven type range. 300+220+90 = 610. At +100 power str, Chroma grants 550%, and Rhino grants +100%. Rhino's buff doubles 610 to 1220, but Chroma's only increases it to 1160. That is bad math that doesn't consistently apply to a variety of weapons. It should be fixed and apply a more modest buff to all weapon damage in a separate stack, as it already can't be used to buff warframe powers or other types of damage.

The fact that Chroma is being forced into a niche spec where it will barely outperform the competition is definitely not a good thing. Looking at a fairly typical pistol build, let's say Lex P with 400% power str(+90 riven, +90 pact, +220 hornet strike. A very modest and not unreasonable build.) That means that at +199 power str('max power' chroma standard build), Chroma grants 825%. With the stack being 500% already, that's a 2.65x buff, as apposed to Rhino at +199 str granting +150%, or 2.5x damage. Rhino's buff also affects all damage types equally, hits a wider area, and has the advantage of being on an easier to obtain, easier to use frame, that doesn't need to self damage to build it's effect.

For that matter, it's popular to put heavy cal on Lanka for whatever reason, so let's look at a meta heavy cal build.

Spoiler

This is a real lanka build pulled from Google Images. That's 310+240=550%. That means the stack is 650% so far. This player would literally be better off playing Rhino for damage in this build.(~2.25x vs 2.5x) They would also be better off dropping Heavy Cal or Point Strike for Vile Acceleration, but hey, let's not be too hard on the noob. Not everyone knows that the best Lanka riven should have heat or elec on it so you can run vile accel, primed cryo rounds, and still have radiation and cold without issue. Another thing not everyone knows is that you can get around 100% crit chance with Lanka just with Point Strike by using the full zoom, which, with a negative zoom riven, should be easy to do, making further critical chance a poor investment.

 

In general, adding to an existing weapon stack with a wf power is not a good idea, and should be reevaluated. This also applies to elemental damage buffs, such as Flash Accelerant, Fireball Frenzy, Shock Trooper, Smite Infusion, Freeze Force, and Venom Dose. Nothing like modding yourself for +100% heat damage only to find out it's actually more like +40% heat damage.

I get the feeling DE will look at this and say "nerf rhino" instead, though. Even though that doesn't address the core issue of adding to existing stacks being a punishment for modding your weapon ffs.

Edited March 16, 2018 by NezuHimeSama