Supposed end game (Rivens) is a waste of time?

[PETI258]

So we all know the rng and the grind behind it but that an other issue and I am not going to talk about it too much in this thread.

This is an "end game" drop table:

Sortie
Rifle Riven Mod	Rare (6.79%)
Ayatan Anasa Sculpture	Uncommon (28.00%)
4000 Endo	Uncommon (12.10%)
Forma	Rare (2.50%)
Exilus Adapter	Rare (2.50%)
Orokin Reactor Blueprint	Rare (2.50%)
Orokin Catalyst Blueprint	Rare (2.50%)
Legendary Core	Legendary (0.18%)
6000X Kuva	Uncommon (14.00%)
Credit Booster	Rare (3.27%)
Affinity Booster	Rare (3.27%)
Resource Drop Chance Booster	Rare (3.27%)
Pistol Riven Mod	Rare (7.61%)
Shotgun Riven Mod	Ultra Rare (1.36%)
Melee Riven Mod	Rare (8.14%)
Melee Riven Mod	Rare (2.00%)

 

After you done a couple bunch of these missions you will get some rivens lets say it takes 14 days to get 4 rivens.
Then you unlock them and turns out all the 4 is for weapons you don't own or you only maxed it out for the MR so you not going to invest in them because you don't like them.

Then you have to do the newly added plain "end game" the Hydrolyst capture to get a Riven Transmuter which will covert those 4 rivens into a brand new one.
The chances of getting a riven you want is still as slim as it were in the previous 4 unveiling but you have basically spent 2 weeks of doing high content mission every day and captured the awesome bosses on the plain to actually end up with 1 riven that you don't need.

Considering I do own 80 rivens it will only took me a less then a weekend of Hydrolyst capture to end up under 4 riven and I have spent many-many days farming those sorties.

So either we should get rivens outside of sorties (or be repeatable) or the transmuter should only take 2 mods (maybe the invested kuva should be calculated too) and not 4 to convert it to a new one but in this current state I rather run a couple relic runs for plat and buy the veiled riven then struggling to get 4 and a transmuter.

[Voltage]

Riven Transmutation is just a trap for fools. It is basically a system that takes in endo (4 junk rivens) and gives you back less endo (1 junk riven). Rivens would be end game if we had content to use them in that did not require us to wait in endless for enemy level to ramp up.

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, --Q--Voltage said:

Riven Transmutation is just a trap for fools. It is basically a system that takes in endo (4 junk rivens) and gives you back less endo (1 junk riven). Rivens would be end game if we had content to use them in that did not require us to wait in endless for enemy level to ramp up.

God what a cynical cash grab. 

[Captain]

5 minutes ago, toxicpanda said:

God what a cynical cash grab. 

This isn't the first time..

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, --Q--Captain said:

This isn't the first time..

Nor will it be the last. Doesn't mean we should dismiss it. 

[Firetempest]

DE stated they wouldn't make "endgame gameplay" balanced for rivens, and that rivens where purely above and beyond for those that had nothing better to do. So... endgame. The whole thing needs a serious look at as it is just a plat trade pusher at the expense of gameplay health.

[Captain]

Rivens are a band-aid for a bigger problem in the game.

[Sader]

11 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

DE stated they wouldn't make "endgame gameplay" balanced for rivens, and that rivens where purely above and beyond for those that had nothing better to do. So... endgame. The whole thing needs a serious look at as it is just a plat trade pusher at the expense of gameplay health.

That sounds incredibly dumb.

[jd2fs]

transmuter is a bad reward for hunt. There is not enough trash rivens (unless you waste plat to buy them) to make it worthwhile. You can grab a handful of transmuters per night but you can only grab max 1 riven per sortie day. Probably only get 5 - 10 trash rivens per month. In two days you're probably oversupplied the transmuters. Then there is no real incentive to do hunt other than figurines and focus points.

[Obviousclone]

This entire game is a waste of time

 

but it's not if you had fun

 

and if the rivens make the game fun for you, if it made you forma out a weapon, and made you start liking that weapon enough that put a lens on it and now you take it into every mission you play then no, riven's aren't a waste of time.

[Brasten]

2 hours ago, Firetempest said:

DE stated they wouldn't make "endgame gameplay" balanced for rivens, and that rivens where purely above and beyond for those that had nothing better to do. So... endgame. The whole thing needs a serious look at as it is just a plat trade pusher at the expense of gameplay health.

If DE really wanted to use Rivens we need to be able to expend normal system resources in Transmuting and Adjusting their stats. Including Transmuting Rivens from one Weapon to another, and from one Class of weapon to another. Not just taking 4 Rivens of same type and mashing them into 1 of same type.

This would help drain banked resources that are a constant issue, give players something to work toward, and create a secondary market/occupation for folks who have the time to do the slow refinement of Rivens into "meta" things others "want". 

But this was not the system we got, and Rivens were not built with this kind of gradual adjustment of stats and type in mind.

[steelblueskies]

you missed something critical.

 

because they have only done so ONCE so far since introducing them, everyones failing to get that if you have some "godlike" riven and the disposition of the weapon it is for changes to weaker, the stats drop retroactively.

which means not only is it limited slots even with paying through the eyes for more, while still not covering the arsenal.. but havin the ones you desire can still see them rendered useless by disposition change.

hint, thats coming along with beam and melee passes. it was noted in the primary/secondary pass it was so.

 

the entire system is a trap. yet its not early game. guess that makes it an eldernoob trap. or more fittingly, a trap for those who buy into what they put out and just accept it, because of glacial change pace not making it hard to do so.

 

unless you think a middle disposition riven for say 120% multishot plus 200+% damage going to 30% and 50% is still great for the effort time and rng involved.

[Volinus7]

6 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

This entire game is a waste of time

Not really, Warframe is worth around a couple of hours after all repetitive grinding was removed, it's not entirely worthless it just has 99/100 worthless parts. 

[Shinigami_Greed]

2 hours ago, toxicpanda said:

God what a cynical cash grab. 

How... how can a cash grab be free.  I'm confused.

[Firetempest]

8 minutes ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

How... how can a cash grab be free.  I'm confused.

Its the slot machine RNG and ultra rarity of combinations that actually work which bring in high demand trading which push massive plat prices. The plat may not be drained out of the system but the ones buying for hundreds if not more than 1k plat are usually not traders themselves and they buy plat packs to outright buy power. That's just as good for DE when players start ripping each other off as they are not directly responsible (although they are because they created the meta power and RNG.)

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, Shinigami_Greed said:

How... how can a cash grab be free.  I'm confused.

Had DE came out and said "yeah we created the system just to make money xd", I would have no issues with it at all. Its a free to play title they need to make the money somehow. However they didnt instead they gave us some really terrible reasons, "Oh its to help weak weapons" "Oh its to keep out of meta weapons viable" blah blah. 

DE knew exactly what the riven system was supposed to accomplish. They knew people will spend real money on this system. You cant tell me they didn't introduce this system without an idea that maybe people will waste money on it. Kinda like trade chat, DE never intended trade chat to become what it is, it wasn't till later that they figured out that they can benefit from it. Its why they refuse to implement some trade UI or really anything. 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by toxicpanda

[Orcot]

52 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

Its the slot machine RNG and ultra rarity of combinations that actually work which bring in high demand trading which push massive plat prices. The plat may not be drained out of the system but the ones buying for hundreds if not more than 1k plat are usually not traders themselves and they buy plat packs to outright buy power. That's just as good for DE when players start ripping each other off as they are not directly responsible (although they are because they created the meta power and RNG.)

That is the player's choice to make, DE has in no way incentivize such behaviour and why should someone else be held accountable for the stupidity of others?  If someone wants to pay 10K Plat to roll for Rivens for a weapon they like and take the crazed risk of burning 100K+ Kuva to make it "Godlike" let them, the odds are clearly shown to them, they know what they are getting into, if they don't like the results only they look like a fool.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Orcot
Forgot to put "has".

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

How... how can a cash grab be free.  I'm confused.

 

59 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

Its the slot machine RNG and ultra rarity of combinations that actually work which bring in high demand trading which push massive plat prices. The plat may not be drained out of the system but the ones buying for hundreds if not more than 1k plat are usually not traders themselves and they buy plat packs to outright buy power.

Okay, but Riven Transmutation doesn't ask you for powerful Rivens. It's specifically for subtracting Rivens you don't want from your Inventory for a new freebie Riven. The kind of Rivens put into Transmutation, nobody is going to pay real money for. The Rivens are free (especially the ones up for Transmutation), the Transmuter is free. It gives a player anohter chance at something they want. I'm not seeing the cash grab here.

[steelblueskies]

24 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

 

Okay, but Riven Transmutation doesn't ask you for powerful Rivens. It's specifically for subtracting Rivens you don't want from your Inventory for a new freebie Riven. The kind of Rivens put into Transmutation, nobody is going to pay real money for. The Rivens are free (especially the ones up for Transmutation), the Transmuter is free. It gives a player anohter chance at something they want. I'm not seeing the cash grab here.

bulk purchases from others in trade using bought plat because addicted to rolling hoping for what i want, or big score.

 

just because we make players complicit in whale fishing, doesn't mean thats not the behavior we are centering on with the design of the space or system.

[Orcot]

That's no where near comparable, in order for this to be "whale fishing" it would need to be convenient way to attain what you want, example buying Endo packs from the market compared to just farming them for free, this is more comparable to buying 100 tickets to win the Mega Million.  It's an insane gamble to think just cause there is a chance I can win the statistical RNG mod grinder doesn't mean I should dump all my efforts to get it, it really is no different than folks buying scratch offs at a gas station at least in WF you get something back.

[Urabask]

4 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Riven Transmutation is just a trap for fools. It is basically a system that takes in endo (4 junk rivens) and gives you back less endo (1 junk riven). Rivens would be end game if we had content to use them in that did not require us to wait in endless for enemy level to ramp up.

If you're worried about wasting endo you can get from junk rivens you a.) don't know how to farm endo and b.) aren't really at end game.

[SenorClipClop]

48 minutes ago, steelblueskies said:

bulk purchases from others in trade using bought plat because addicted to rolling hoping for what i want, or big score.

Who is actually going to spend significant plat on bulk loads of trash Rivens? The whole point of a transmuter is only to get rid of extra unwanted Rivens in a way that's more rewarding than just Endo. If players are looking for new Rivens, Sortie drops are still far more productive than transmutation (and equally free).

[Isca]

It suffers from the same problem as regular mod transmutation, i.e. too high a price for too little chance at something better.