Non-Combat Stealth Cover System

[Mietz]

Making this into a separate thread because Ced23Ric locked the other one either because he didn't understand the concept being discussed or not reading the thread.

 

IMPORTANT: This is not a thread about a combat cover system like Gears Of War, where you stick to cover, pop out your gun and shoot enemies that itself pop out of cover to shoot you.

 

The current stance of DE on cover:

"We love cover systems but for Warframe we felt it sacrificed mobility and simplicity too much. Our coming updates continue down this path even more so, emphasizing the agility and speed aspects of the ninja. We hope to convince you this is a better path for Warframe and that slow and tactical, although great on its own, just doesn't fit well with Warframe."

 

This is assuming a cover system like in GoW or Mass Effect where guns can be used out of cover, this is not what I am proposing and how this concept works.

 

My idea is a cover system similar to Metal Gear Solid in which the player can stick to walls/crates/geometry, however he can not shoot from cover. The cover system in MGS is very dynamic in this way as it only provides a help for the player to make 100% sure he is out of LOS of the enemies and give him a better vantage point to observe enemies.

 

Currently in Warframe the enemies can detect you if your little toe sticks out from behind a crate and this is annoying, especially since we have no visibility indicator like other games that utilize stealth. My proposal would be to include a cover system that merely guarantees the breaking of LOS and is entirely unusable in combat.

 

The warframe would simply sheathe its weapon and stick to the geometry: no combat balancing necessary and no influence on platforming and/or parkour. This could be achieved with a separate button from our current functions to not interfere with platforming functionality and it would only be allowed when out of combat.

 

Stealth is in the game so it is intended gameplay behavior, it is also a separate pace from our normal run, gun and slice gameplay, this cover system would only influence the stealth portion of the gameplay as it is entirely optional and completely unusable in combat (hence, non-combat cover system).

Edited August 8, 2013 by Mietz

[Morgax]

I like your idea let me give you some additional inspiration

recently i  played Batman arkham city and thing gave me an idea what if on ship tile we could get the lights out for certain period of time?

Enemies would have harder time to detect tenno, as for tenno we should have thermal sight or special vision device that provides enemies line of sight and their footprints as patrol pattern.

 

Diversion: tenno mimics grineer/corpus voice and sends enemies to false coordinates, obviously won't work with infested. Works during combat aswell, doesn't affect bosses.

 

Alternate routes: celilings, hidden doors, service gates, would be at the bottom of list but implementing this into tiles could offer lot of flavor.

 

Combat improvements:

 

Industrical Magnets: shooting the button on devices would disarm enemies, magnetic fields would be powered up for 6 seconds after that enemies can recover their guns.

 

Sabotage: requies 2 tennos to hack 2 devices and with maximum of 3 seconds of delay, 3 failures result in alarm while success would reduce the number of mechanical enemies:

 

Corpus: less moas,ospreys

Grineer: less rollers, balistas/heavy gunners periodically getting stunned due to their implants and prosthetic limbs.

Infested: no effect

 

Pheromon cache: tenno absors it and after succesfull melee attack transmits it on infested unit causing mind controll like effect within area.

[Mietz]

---

 

Those are all great improvements for stealth, however in this thread I just want to discuss the proposed cover system, nothing else.

[Tsukinoki]

This is a type of cover system that I can agree with and actually see working with the game as it currently stands. This would be a big improvement to stealth without having the impact on fighting or parkour that DE, and a lot of players against a cover mechanic, wants to avoid.

And it wouldn't be that hard to limit it to non combat. When you're "on the enemy scanners" you can no longer use the cover mechanics, but beyond that you could use cover at any time.

The only issue that I can think of is that I believe in the fire levels the enemies pretty much come pre-alerted which would make the stealth cover mechanics impossible to use in those levels. But that should be rare enough that it wouldn't have a big impact on this idea.

[Mietz]

This is a type of cover system that I can agree with and actually see working with the game as it currently stands. This would be a big improvement to stealth without having the impact on fighting or parkour that DE, and a lot of players against a cover mechanic, wants to avoid.

And it wouldn't be that hard to limit it to non combat. When you're "on the enemy scanners" you can no longer use the cover mechanics, but beyond that you could use cover at any time.

The only issue that I can think of is that I believe in the fire levels the enemies pretty much come pre-alerted which would make the stealth cover mechanics impossible to use in those levels. But that should be rare enough that it wouldn't have a big impact on this idea.

 

I think the "in combat" should be rather lax, especially if you would combine it with a stealth overhaul where just breaking LOS for long enough would return you to non-combat status.

 

Essentially if you have been spotted and are actively being shot at it doesn't work.

[Tsukinoki]

That would be a nice addition to stealth, the ability to hide behind something until the enemies forget about you like in most other games. I was just putting in how it could be currently implemented, and when they further improve the stealth mechanics and the removal of the alert status the idea can be easily expanded.

If you put the limit that cover can be used when no enemy has actively spotted you, or all the enemies that have are dead, that would allow you to continue using cover until another enemy actively spots you. That would work nicely but I do see some potential issues until they add in a system to make the enemies forget you exist, such as an enemy in the corpus ship room with the bridge in the middle and two elevators sees you when you're on the lower floor and you don't see them. He is now alerted to your presence and is actively aware of you instead of just being on alert. That would prevent the use of the cover mechanics and you wouldn't immediately know why.

I think going for the simple "You can only enter cover until you're on enemy scanners" would work for the first implementation, then as the stealth mechanics are fleshed out they can ease that restriction. It would prevent the most bugs/issues.

[whitejackale]

I really hope that we can have an actual discussion on the positive and negative effects of an optional cover system in warframe, instead of having the thread locked with a link to frequently asked questions. I hope that the forums can be used to get reasonable arguments across to the developers, and that they are open to modifying their original plans for the game if those changes are necessary to create the best gaming experience possible.

 

So, back onto the original topic. There has been talk of future updates that will allow players to complete missions with a more stealthy approach, and I feel like an optional cover system that is activated with a certain key press will be important for this future stealth additions. An optional cover mechanic will be a great addition to the game because it can give players the tools necessary to play the game how they want to play it. An optional cover mechanic should be available at all times, but it should not be one of those terrible cover systems that forces players to take cover when they walk near a solid object.