Ash Feedback

[ForsakenEcho]

i play ash since the beginning, so i saw ash from those time when his ult bugs so much so I dont even bring his ult mod with him and other players dont really want to play him, to those time of press 4 to win and there start to be a lot of 'ash main' kids, then be nerfed to the wheelchair later and everybody ditched him so he sit on a wheelchair and watching zypher trying to learn how2fly. 

 

still his unique play style, at least how I played him is a lots of tp around and 1 hit key enemies while charged attack stealing HP or get to key locations, using smoke bomb to do some survival sttuff and using ult to deal damage while being invulnerable to turn the tide of a battle. with him I could easily solo t3/4 interception missions to wave 3 or 4, while now, I can only hardly complete a sedna interception mission without being forced to 98% - 100% on the first round, while, I can easily solo to wave 6-8 using a vauban or some other frames, still. 

and 1 out of 300-400 missions now I could see an ash standing there getting his butt kicked while trying to run around and mark enemies. while there are so many press 4 to win frames doing there smashings and slashings. 

and after a huge update like this, I could see people playing banshee, ember, chorma, or zypher  to test their changes and still, NO ASH. what does this mean ? this means people are not even bothered to test him. hehh. 

this means he is too weak (stop telling me he can use his first skill to stay in survival mission for 8 hours, so many other frames can do the same. ).

suggestions :

just, make the marker after he uses his 4 to see highlighted enemies through walls, and mark those enemies without being blocked by a huge bombard standing at your face. this could save him.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by NovusNova
Edited Title

[Aleksi134]

I tested him alright. He can be fast DPS but the marking is annoying as S#&$, when i could instead be using mesa and just activating 4 and spinning my mouse and winning while doing CC+tank.

[ForsakenEcho]

Just now, Aleksi134 said:

I tested him alright. He can be fast DPS but the marking is annoying as S#&$, when i could instead be using mesa and just activating 4 and spinning my mouse and winning while doing CC+tank.

ikr, if marking mechs got a change, he will git good.

[Jopsakee]

It's definitely a step in the right direction but it takes too long to mark the enemies. It would be faster to just kill the entire room with an orthos prime or something. I like the change tho.

[Achromatic.]

Marking with Ash feels like playing the world's most annoying game of connect the dots.

[ForsakenEcho]

actually, make ash 4 marking similar to mesa 4, and make it able to mark through mobs and obstacles (maybe not through walls seprrating 2 different rooms).

Edited February 13, 2018 by ForsakenEcho
new ideas

[Marthrym]

I do agree that the marking system is rather wonky and unreliable. I use Bladestorm much less often than I used to because of that. Allowing it to mark targets like @ForsakenEcho suggests, or at least something approaching their suggestion, could really help Bladestorm feel a lot more practical to use.

[AetherMcLoud]

1 hour ago, Biter. said:

Marking with Ash feels like playing the world's most annoying game of connect the dots.

Holy hell yeah it does. Especially with still needing to get 3 dots on all enemies and targeting being rather finicky...

Just make it like Mesa's 4, everything inside a circle is targeted promptly. Bladestorm still feels like a singletarget ability in targeting when it should just be aoe already really.

Edited February 13, 2018 by AetherMcLoud

[fatpig84]

I used him in Sorties recently and he seem fine. Work great in fact.
But maybe cos I play a Stealth Ash.... You know ash with 200% pwr duration and more...
So i got all the sweet time in the world to mark targets and just use bladestorm if I wanted to.

He doesn't need that much pwr str anyway for sortie gameplay.

Edited February 13, 2018 by fatpig84

[Railgun]

Marking has gotten so annoying I don't even bother to mark anymore. If I use Bladestorm i just turn it on then off, and then kill whatever enemies were unfortunate enough to be standing in front of me at the time.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Welp, people like to cheese. Ash isn't a cheese frame. He sure can be used to spend days marking enemys trying to cheese but there's also another side to him.. one that allows you to play weapons, be it guns or melee, dispell enemys, perform finishers, all while having invisibility, one of the strongest defensive abilitys in his repertuar to mark enemys in a "passive" manner while simply playing your weapon so the magic can unfold...  The possibillity to perform the highest damage on short and long range simultaneous but what can you say....

Ash mains spent years degrading his potential to reach this end. Degrading the marking, which synergices perfect with active gameplay, his damage and dps, since marking isn't some autopilot aoe, his efficiency, which is perfectly fine if you look at it from a rational standpoint.... They've done all they could to make him as unappealing as anyhow possible.

Does this make him weak? No it doesn't....

Me, i give him about a month till people figure out how to play him. How to utilice him to be exactly what he is: the strongest damage dealer in the game. Can't fight propaganda without propper proof ya know. Give it time.

Edited February 13, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Not commenting one way or the other on the validity of your argument, but not seeing a frame a lot doesn't mean they are weak.

There are, what, 34 frames in this game? Ideally they'd all be more or less balanced which would mean you'd only have like a 3% chance of seeing a particular frame (not including your own) in a mission (assuming only one other player joins). Consistently seeing the same frames in every mission is more a problem of them being overpowered in a given aspect of the game. That's not to say they don't fall short somewhere else, and may just excel at that mission type. There's no problem as long as they are appropriately balanced overall.

[ForsakenEcho]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Not commenting one way or the other on the validity of your argument, but not seeing a frame a lot doesn't mean they are weak.

There are, what, 34 frames in this game? Ideally they'd all be more or less balanced which would mean you'd only have like a 3% chance of seeing a particular frame (not including your own) in a mission (assuming only one other player joins). Consistently seeing the same frames in every mission is more a problem of them being overpowered in a given aspect of the game. That's not to say they don't fall short somewhere else, and may just excel at that mission type. There's no problem as long as they are appropriately balanced overall.

but fact is we see mesa frost ember limbo and etc way t00 much more than ash. and even ivara got her spy missions. but ash is like... where to put him?

[Hypernaut1]

How do you guys even aim and shoot at enemies if youre having such problems with marking? This game is part shooter, where you literally point at enemies all of the time. I dont get it.

[Aleksi134]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How do you guys even aim and shoot at enemies if youre having such problems with marking? This game is part shooter, where you literally point at enemies all of the time. I dont get it.

For me problem isnt marking, its the annoyance of how it slows my gameplay so much to specifically have to mark enemies or try to move my mouse around like im crazy and lose my visibility and there is always a chance ill just die while doing it.

[ForsakenEcho]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How do you guys even aim and shoot at enemies if youre having such problems with marking? This game is part shooter, where you literally point at enemies all of the time. I dont get it.

well, tell ember about it.

[(PSN)G_MAN180]

17 hours ago, ForsakenEcho said:

ikr, if marking mechs got a change, he will git good.

Yeah, originally I thought the reason they changed him was because you couldnt kill enemies targetted by him and then you were stuck in the annimation. Now both are fixed but you still have to target. I personally dont see why they just dont revert it or make it a conicall attack.

[(PSN)G_MAN180]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How do you guys even aim and shoot at enemies if youre having such problems with marking? This game is part shooter, where you literally point at enemies all of the time. I dont get it.

I play the game for the abilities. I dont use weapons unless necessary to kill a certain enemy which is usually sortie raid eidolon or axi teir being that i dont do extended missions unless its a fissure survival which i would use nidus throughout and only shoot nullifiers

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 horas, Hypernaut1 dijo:

How do you guys even aim and shoot at enemies if youre having such problems with marking? This game is part shooter, where you literally point at enemies all of the time. I dont get it.

The problem isn't related to aim, but rather marking large crowds. BS marking mode has almost pinpoint accuracy required to mark. If you are surrounded and need to mark fast, you can't just turn and sweep, because you will mark next to jacksquat. You need aimbot to actually mark large non-packed groups of enemies.

[Hypernaut1]

28 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

The problem isn't related to aim, but rather marking large crowds. BS marking mode has almost pinpoint accuracy required to mark. If you are surrounded and need to mark fast, you can't just turn and sweep, because you will mark next to jacksquat. You need aimbot to actually mark large non-packed groups of enemies.

I would like to see your screen when you play. For me, making happens quickly. I find that it marks a hallway of grineer rather quickly. 

I do sometimes need to wiggle around, but its easy as just sweeping my reticule over enemies. I don't even need to focus on them, like say a sniper. 

[Nazrethim]

hace 6 minutos, Hypernaut1 dijo:

I would like to see your screen when you play. For me, making happens quickly. I find that it marks a hallway of grineer rather quickly. 

I do sometimes need to wiggle around, but its easy as just sweeping my reticule over enemies. I don't even need to focus on them, like say a sniper. 

Well, my screen is just as normal, except when everything turns sepia which, shockingly, tends to make a bit harder to see enemies in certain tilesets.

Usually on bright terrain it's not an issue to mark most enemies. I have good reflex aim though. Mostly thanks to Conclave (I rarely use ranged weaponry there, but Shuriken has zero tracking so it¡s like using a Kunai that only has 4 ammo max and hits for half the damage of an actual Kunai)

I think just swapping the detection with Teleport would be enough.

[Hypernaut1]

43 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, my screen is just as normal, except when everything turns sepia which, shockingly, tends to make a bit harder to see enemies in certain tilesets.

Usually on bright terrain it's not an issue to mark most enemies. I have good reflex aim though. Mostly thanks to Conclave (I rarely use ranged weaponry there, but Shuriken has zero tracking so it¡s like using a Kunai that only has 4 ammo max and hits for half the damage of an actual Kunai)

I think just swapping the detection with Teleport would be enough.

One thing about the bladestorm change, it has made shuriken useless for me. I can double tap 4 and do guaranteed high damage to a target and not even worrying about missing. Without the augment, I fail to see a reason to use it when I can just as easily mark and execute.... And it looks cooler. I haven't done the math, but it may even be cheaper too.

I don't even use the seeking shuriken augment all that much, so I really don't have a reason to use it. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 hours ago, ForsakenEcho said:

but fact is we see mesa frost ember limbo and etc way t00 much more than ash. and even ivara got her spy missions. but ash is like... where to put him?

I think that has to do with the type of content they specialize in.

Mesa Frost and Limbo specialize in holding down large areas for a long time which comes up more commonly in the game. 

Ash specializes in taking down the biggest, baddest mofo in the room and he does it better than almost anyone. I main Ash. Unlike most frames that fall off at high level content, his abilities don't even become useful until level 30 minimum if he's even half-decently modded. So, more along the lines of Ivara and Loki, he excels at what he's good at (killing the unkillable) but isn't necessarily the first choice for most content. 

I'm willing to pick him first for most mission types because I don't always care about trying to carry the team, or being able to brag that I killed the most trash mobs...

You want to know where to put him? Literally any high level mission in the game. Just don't expect him to be a cheese frame for farming low level content like Mesa, and Ember, or as an objective defender like Frost and Limbo. They aren't in the same category as him so competing for a spot on the team with him is irrelevant. He's an assassin, with high single target/limited aoe damage, and limited stealth. 

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I think that has to do with the type of content they specialize in.

Mesa Frost and Limbo specialize in holding down large areas for a long time which comes up more commonly in the game. 

Ash specializes in taking down the biggest, baddest mofo in the room and he does it better than almost anyone. I main Ash. Unlike most frames that fall off at high level content, his abilities don't even become useful until level 30 minimum if he's even half-decently modded. So, more along the lines of Ivara and Loki, he excels at what he's good at (killing the unkillable) but isn't necessarily the first choice for most content. 

I'm willing to pick him first for most mission types because I don't always care about trying to carry the team, or being able to brag that I killed the most trash mobs...

You want to know where to put him? Literally any high level mission in the game. Just don't expect him to be a cheese frame for farming low level content like Mesa, and Ember, or as an objective defender like Frost and Limbo. They aren't in the same category as him so competing for a spot on the team with him is irrelevant. He's an assassin, with high single target/limited aoe damage, and limited stealth. 

I don't know why people find this so hard to understand. He's not made to mass kill trash mobs. 

[Redfeather75]

I miss the old bladestorm so much. It was his offense+defense move that kept him on the offense while becoming invincible and recharging shields, it could even pick up energy orbs from all over the room... and now it's just an awkward offensive move with no defense of it's own.

Ash's main offense is that he can kill a single target in seconds regardless of level. He didn't need bladestorm to be a wholly offensive move. The change broke him. I am afraid that people who do not know ash's strengths were allowed to make changes to his kit.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Redfeather75