Ash Feedback

[Hypernaut1]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

With how a basic level of strength is common, with how it does finisher damage, with how it scales off and generates combo, with how easy it is to maintain the combo counter (aka naramon) and with how each mark generates slash proccs for 307% additional finisher damage.... 2 marks is pretty much overkill for most enemys.

If a player can't aim at an enemy to do that kind of damage, then a player doesn't deserve to do that kind of damage.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Dragazer]

40 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If a player can't aim at an enemy to do that kind of damage, then a player doesn't deserve to do that kind of damage.

[Laughs in Mesa]

[Altre]

@Hypernaut1 So you don't understand what the issue is. No one is having trouble blatantly looking at an enemy. There is no question of the technical merit of people having this issue. It's an issue. Even when it does mark, it isn't practical in a wide variety of instances. I've swept over 8 enemies in the plains and had only 2 or 3 receive a mark. By the time I had at least 5 marked, my allied had destroyed all of them. The ability is bugged and redundant.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

[Laughs in Mesa]

[Laughs in no Damage]

[Dragazer]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

[Laughs in no Damage]

Anything above sorties 3 level is irrelevant as stated by DE. 

Peacemaker can easily take out enemies much faster than Ash could ever hope to at those levels.

Lets not forget bosses too especially on sortie, what are you going to do when majority of them are immune to slash proc?

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Dragazer

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

21 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Anything above sorties 3 level is irrelevant as stated by DE. 

Peacemaker can easily take out enemies much faster than Ash could ever hope to at those levels.

 

I 1 shot anything at high levels with venka prime and bladestorm 

[Dragazer]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

I 1 shot anything at high levels with venka prime and bladestorm 

Yeah, Mesa does the same but faster with no clunky targeting mechanics. 

and good luck with sortie bosses when most of them are now immune/resistant to slash procs

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Altre said:

@Hypernaut1 So you don't understand what the issue is. No one is having trouble blatantly looking at an enemy. There is no question of the technical merit of people having this issue. It's an issue. Even when it does mark, it isn't practical in a wide variety of instances. I've swept over 8 enemies in the plains and had only 2 or 3 receive a mark. By the time I had at least 5 marked, my allied had destroyed all of them. The ability is bugged and redundant.

If events aren't getting marked, then you've encountered a bug.

And no, stop this false narrative of teammates always killing enemies faster than Ash. It rarely happens in high level content. Especially when armor scaling begins to get crazy. 

Again, if you have trouble aiming at enemies, why are you even playing a shooter? Anyway... That's my piece. Aiming to mark enemies works fine. 

Mess had a huge reticule, but does less noon finisher damage and is immobile.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Dragazer]

9 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If events aren't getting marked, then you've encountered a bug.

And no, stop this false narrative of teammates always killing enemies faster than Ash. It rarely happens in high level content. Especially when armor scaling begins to get crazy. 

Again, if you have trouble aiming at enemies, why are you even playing a shooter? Anyway... That's my piece. Aiming to mark enemies works fine. 

Mess had a huge reticule, but does less noon finisher damage and is immobile.

Like I said b4 anything past sortie 3 levels (over level 100+) is irrelevant as stated by DE. There are zero incentives to encounter any enemies higher than that. 

At those levels Mesa is still able to kill much quicker than Ash can. Without any clunky targeting mechanics. 

Immobility is a non-issue, Peacemaker can quickly be recast to change positions. 

That is the point of what everyone is saying. BS in its current state just functions like a gun. A slow gun that can only attack 2 targets at a time each second (only 2 clones spawn) and whose damage is mainly dealt through DoT. Like I mentioned previously, DE's intention for the soft level cap to be in the low 100s range. There are plenty of guns nowadays that can quickly kill at those levels. So if my reticle is already on my target, why I'm I not just shooting my gun instead of wasting time and energy to BS them?

[(PSN)Fairfied]

I don’t like marking enemies either, its slow and clunky.  Most of the time instead of marking i may as well shoot them seeing as i have to aim right at them anyhow.  At the very least i think the marking reticle should be as wide as Mesa’s  (when initially activated), and forget marking them 3 times, that’s lame.

Edited February 26, 2018 by (PS4)Fairfied

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

Yeah, Mesa does the same

Yeah, no she does not. Her Peacemaker is literally a gun with a targeting cone, except for the poor status chance and bad damage type. Wanna know what does the same, better? Guns.

The kinda guns ash can use now while he's marking stuff.

[Altre]

13 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

And no, stop this false narrative of teammates always killing enemies faster than Ash. It rarely happens in high level content. Especially when armor scaling begins to get crazy. 

Again, if you have trouble aiming at enemies, why are you even playing a shooter? Anyway... That's my piece. Aiming to mark enemies works fine. 

It's clear at this point that you don't want to discuss the issue. No one is having a problem "shooting". People are having problems with "marking", not shooting. There is no hidden agenda here, just people wanting a frame to have a practical kit.

Even if it actually does mark for you, it shouldn't only have practical use in high level content. And that would be the ONLY viable place for the current state of the ability. Unfortunately, Ash isn't of much use in lower and mid tier content. Enemies will get wiped out by everything else before before your clones touch the enemies you've marked, unless you mark 3 at a time, maybe.

Reverting it to an untargetted ability would still be viable in far more applications. They could even shift the marking feature over to his 3 without the clones. Why is this such a hard thing to fathom or consider?

[Grimmstyler]

I liked Ash when he first came out..

Only change that made him better to me is the Shadows doing the Bladestorm.. I hate marking enemies and tracing back over them to ramp up damage. it's not instant CC 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[Buzkyl]

The Mesa vs Ash arguement I don't understand rhe comparison. To compare Ash to Mesa is reaching. While both ultimates work via targetting enemies directly infront of you, the comparisons stop there.

• Ash is able to target a wider group of enemies at once to prepare Bladestorm. Mesa Peacemaker are able to hit multiple enemies however as the reticule shrink, so does this ability. Mesa would however counteract by her firerate ramp up. 
• Ash has more flexibility in Bladestorm. He can mark a group of enemies then proceed to revive a fallen ally or go after another group as bladestorm is active. Mesa will decimate them however she is locked into only doing that one action.
• Fluidity of killing is subjective. You can decimate a hallway with Peacemaker or just mark them all as you run past them then use Bladestorm at your choosing.
• Speed of killing once again can be up to alteration as while Mesa Ramps up (And is affected by Arcanes) Ash Bladestorm speeds increases via Melee speed mods (and can proc certain Arcanes)

Mesa and Ash offer different utility at higher levels along with their DPS. Mesa shooting gallery offers CC and minor damage buff while through augments Ash can strip armor or  make teammates invisible briefly.

I understand some not being satisfied with Ash even at his current state, that's fair however Bladestorm is hardly an issue, aiming is not slow as a glance is enough to place a mark, multi marking can lead to some spastic movements however.  It's possible to mark while running or parkoring so if it's slow its likely the user using it as such.

[Altre]

18 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

I understand some not being satisfied with Ash even at his current state, that's fair however Bladestorm is hardly an issue, aiming is not slow as a glance is enough to place a mark, multi marking can lead to some spastic movements however.  It's possible to mark while running or parkoring so if it's slow its likely the user using it as such.

There's a redundancy between marking and simply shooting enemies, which is one point of conversation. Along with that is the practical use of marking when playing against low to mid level enemies. Another point is his 4 not actually marking enemies when an enemy is passed over.

[Buzkyl]

17 minutes ago, Altre said:

There's a redundancy between marking and simply shooting enemies, which is one point of conversation. Along with that is the practical use of marking when playing against low to mid level enemies. Another point is his 4 not actually marking enemies when an enemy is passed over.

Marking vs Shooting are two different things. Marks allow ash to kill when he decides he wants to kill vs Shooting which is an immediate effect. Aiming wise they are similar but the execution is how the differentiate. If Bladestorm instantly attacked as you passed over them then it would be Peacemaker but with Clones.

DE has repeatedly called Ash a Stealth frame and while Stealth frames are capable of great DPS (See Ivara) Expecting a stealth frame to do better offense than an offensive frame is asking much.

As to the low to mid level point. See the above. Ash B.S  was deliberately changed because it was faar to good at stomping low/mid level cluster of enemies. 

4 not marking enemies when passed over I have not experienced and if that does happen that should be addressed.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Buzkyl
typo. Typing while on mobile

[Altre]

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

4 not marking enemies when passed over I have not experienced and if that does happen that should be addressed.

I certainly agree.

I'm sure everyone here knows the difference between shooting and marking.

My solution would be to revert to a passive AOE that attacks enemies based on some sort of logic and can only have x amount of clones active scaling with duration. This way you could manually select targets with 3 that need to be taken out and Your 4 will passively remove threats within range at a reasonable pace, taking x amount of energy per enemy attacked. This could easily be balanced and fit the theme.

[Hypernaut1]

Ash shouldn't be stomping low level grunts. It's perfect in that regard.

[(PSN)JustAguy91]

What about making bladestorm a toggle with a radius (like Harrows thurible) where enemies in the radius will be auto locked after like .5 seconds? 

Edited February 26, 2018 by (PS4)JustAguy91

[Hypernaut1]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)JustAguy91 said:

What about making bladestorm a toggle with a radius (like Harrows thurible) where enemies in the radius will be auto locked after like .5 seconds? 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[(PSN)JustAguy91]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Why make things so simple? It's really should not be too much work to ask that you aim at enemies you want marked for death. 

Is there a middle ground? I hate having to manually target everything like how it is right now. When you are playing in groups, half the time stuff is dead by your friends or clan mates by the time you even get finishing targeting. What I suggested was easy but I hate how he targets now.. Suggestions on other alternatives? 

[Hypernaut1]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)JustAguy91 said:

Is there a middle ground? I hate having to manually target everything like how it is right now. When you are playing in groups, half the time stuff is dead by your friends or clan mates by the time you even get finishing targeting. What I suggested was easy but I hate how he targets now.. Suggestions on other alternatives? 

The middle ground would be using a different frame that supports your skilll set better

[Altre]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)JustAguy91 said:

What about making bladestorm a toggle with a radius (like Harrows thurible) where enemies in the radius will be auto locked after like .5 seconds? 

This is pretty close to what I've suggested. I would certainly be ok with this.

[Darkuhn]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb (PS4)JustAguy91:

What about making bladestorm a toggle with a radius (like Harrows thurible) where enemies in the radius will be auto locked after like .5 seconds? 

You know why Ember was nerfed? Killing all enemies with one toggle Ability active. So I hope they don't go with your idea.

In its latest version I can wreck a whole room of sortie 3 Enemies in seconds, out damaging the Mesas I encountered so far. The only one who did more damage was the Spin2Win Loki on the team. But that was by only about 2-3%.

I would say Ash is one of the best Damage frames right now and thanks to the combo Multiplier he can Scale into any lv of content.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Darkuhn

[Nazrethim]

hace 11 horas, Darkuhn dijo:

You know why Ember was nerfed? Killing all enemies with one toggle Ability active. So I hope they don't go with your idea.

In its latest version I can wreck a whole room of sortie 3 Enemies in seconds, out damaging the Mesas I encountered so far. The only one who did more damage was the Spin2Win Loki on the team. But that was by only about 2-3%.

I would say Ash is one of the best Damage frames right now and thanks to the combo Multiplier he can Scale into any lv of content.

This is true. The only real problem now is what the hell do we do with Shuriken since it's for all intents and purposes useless by comparison to BS.