Ash Feedback

[Nazrethim]

hace 22 minutos, BLI7Z dijo:

It all depends on gameplay and perspective. I feel like an anime ninja with insane powers, or something like that, while using Ash... Ivara and Loki don't give me that feeling.

Actual ninjas were subtle, not flashy. Give a shot to that Mark of the Ninja I mentioned earlier. You WILL feel like a ninja without much flash or high speed nonstop slaughter.

hace 22 minutos, BLI7Z dijo:

The mod ain't necessary for Teleport to be effective. I prefer using Natural Talent for that matter, and then pressing E myself.

Funny thing: that speed up casting animation for teleport is actually a passive inate thing in Conclave. The Augment bypasses it's major flaw: not being able to finish certain (read: many) enemies due to odd positioning or terrain.

hace 22 minutos, BLI7Z dijo:

And you can spam Smoke Screen for locking enemies, with high range and 1 sec duration to the skill itself. 

I prefer when things don't need ridiculously specific builds to actually work. I do like the "mad bomber" Ash build though, but still doesn't compare to dedicated CC frames.

hace 22 minutos, BLI7Z dijo:

And for Blade Storm, if you have good aiming and speed, you can just bullet jump for a while, spam Smoke Screen a couple of times... and there you've got a full room of high level enemies totally wiped out. That if you didn't kill the "trash" mobs before with a weapon. 

I actually cast smokescreen once (I play on default power stats though) and mark everything, then eliminate as many grunts as possible (or focus on the boss) while the clones do the job.

hace 22 minutos, BLI7Z dijo:

All frames have pros and cons... But in the end the most important thing, from my view, is having mobility while knowing the game mechanics.
 

You know what will help mobility? having Blade Storm op-in in Bladestorm key and allow teleport while you have it on.

hace 22 minutos, BLI7Z dijo:

And in any case, as I alreay wrote, it is always a matter of gameplay. I like the way Ash skills work, because I don't have to depend on them. They are tools for specific moments; and from my perspective, that I love going mostly meelee, and needing good timing, I just love the way Ash makes that gameplay more complete. Blade Storm and Teleport are more for assassinating specific enemies or groups, not so much as an instant nuke. I like how playing Ash makes very important what weapons you take with you. 

And I won't get tired of saying this over and over, it's all a matter of perspectives and gameplay. And I feel that playing Ash is playing Warframe in hardmode.

So you're saying pretty much what I've been saying for almost two years now: mindless power spam isn't engaging at all.

 

I already listed most of the Ash little changes I would like, mostly Quality of Life. I would like too if he operated on a... different... resource system. Cut the bs outdated energy system we have. I could expand more if you wish.

[BLI7Z]

hace 3 minutos, Nazrethim dijo:

Actual ninjas were subtle, not flashy. Give a shot to that Mark of the Ninja I mentioned earlier. You WILL feel like a ninja without much flash or high speed nonstop slaughter.

Funny thing: that speed up casting animation for teleport is actually a passive inate thing in Conclave. The Augment bypasses it's major flaw: not being able to finish certain (read: many) enemies due to odd positioning or terrain.

I prefer when things don't need ridiculously specific builds to actually work. I do like the "mad bomber" Ash build though, but still doesn't compare to dedicated CC frames.

I actually cast smokescreen once (I play on default power stats though) and mark everything, then eliminate as many grunts as possible (or focus on the boss) while the clones do the job.

You know what will help mobility? having Blade Storm op-in in Bladestorm key and allow teleport while you have it on.

So you're saying pretty much what I've been saying for almost two years now: mindless power spam isn't engaging at all.

 

I already listed most of the Ash little changes I would like, mostly Quality of Life. I would like too if he operated on a... different... resource system. Cut the bs outdated energy system we have. I could expand more if you wish.

Regarding energy... I usually have no problems with it as I always use a Rage/Quick Thinking/Life Strike build, always channeling melee. Energy is the least of the problems for me, it's always full. 

And yes, real ninjas were subtle. I know that. I played Mark of the Ninja and it's great. And you are also correct when saying that Ash is more like a warrior ninja with more warrior than ninja. 

A lot of times Teleport left me in a wrong direction, so I only use it to execute heavy units that are very close mostly, but in any case I prefer Blade Storm for executing, I use Teleport more as a utility tool because of the positioning problem. Tried the Teleport Augment, but for some reason I just can't feel good with it in the build and how it works...

Well... I cast Smoke Screen with 1 sec duration, and in that second I instantly make a spin attack with, most of the times, Orthos Prime... so that mobility boost from the attack leaves me with an easy chance to cast Smoke Screen again and repeat. 

I think that if Blade Storm had a faster way of jumping onto lots of enemies... it would just be broken. I like the way they have to be marked, and it isn't so much the energy cost because Ash actually doesn't need to be spamming abilities. 

[Nazrethim]

hace 1 hora, BLI7Z dijo:

Regarding energy... I usually have no problems with it as I always use a Rage/Quick Thinking/Life Strike build, always channeling melee. Energy is the least of the problems for me, it's always full. 

I rarely run out of energy, however, it just doesn't feel like energy has any meaning. You either have it or not. If you have it (rage, energize, you name it) it literally becomes worthless due to overabundance. If you don't have it (magprocs, not enough mods) it becomes "too good to use" and you never fully realize the power of your frame (usually new players face this problem). I think that, not as a general thing, but more on a case by case basis, the resource system could be tweaked or reworked. What if, say, Ash had it's normal energy pool, but he regenerated passively 10 energy per second+10 energy per kill (+15 if melee, +20 if it's also a Finisher). And Efficiency increased the recovery rate, and Rage giving him a +energy regen buff whenever he takes damage instead, so while you never run out of it, you can't technically abuse it.

You can see where I'm going.

 

Another posibility could be a "charge" system. Like, you have baseline 6 casts of Shuriken, 2 Smokescreen, 3 Teleport and 50 Blade Storm marks. These cost no energy whatsoever, each cast (or BS mark) uses a charge, and each used charge takes time to recharge (say, 3s for Shuriken, 12s for Smoke Screen, 5s for teleport and 1s for each Blade Storm mark), and energy pool mods instead increasing your charge capacity while Efficiency and Rage mods increasing the speed at which you recover them.

 

Basically alternate resource systems that don't fall on the clunky old energy system we have. Something that allows you to be powerful, but not unstoppable, that gives you freedom to mix and match your abilities but not outright abuse them nonstop. And most importantly: that works regardless of your build.

hace 1 hora, BLI7Z dijo:

A lot of times Teleport left me in a wrong direction, so I only use it to execute heavy units that are very close mostly, but in any case I prefer Blade Storm for executing, I use Teleport more as a utility tool because of the positioning problem. Tried the Teleport Augment, but for some reason I just can't feel good with it in the build and how it works...

The one time I don't use the augments is, ironically for many, when I equip a dagger. Why? Knife to the face, that's why.

hace 1 hora, BLI7Z dijo:

Well... I cast Smoke Screen with 1 sec duration, and in that second I instantly make a spin attack with, most of the times, Orthos Prime... so that mobility boost from the attack leaves me with an easy chance to cast Smoke Screen again and repeat. 

I usually run with different melees and rarely spin, I prefer combos, even if they aren't that great depending on weapon.

hace 1 hora, BLI7Z dijo:

I think that if Blade Storm had a faster way of jumping onto lots of enemies... it would just be broken. I like the way they have to be marked, and it isn't so much the energy cost because Ash actually doesn't need to be spamming abilities. 

Ash is a skirmisher/assassin, able to either stealth trough or burst tough enemies or stay on the frontlines fighting enemies head on while using his superior speed and maneuverability rather than facetanking everything.

[Altre]

I'd just like to interject and say that ya'll need to hop on that Tenchu Z. Such ninja, so little anime flair (except when you stab an enemy in the heart through a door....).

Tried playing more with Ash after my part in this debate and came to the same conclusion. I can't think of a time that he gave me something that another frame couldn't. People fighting for his damage potential are fighting for a clunky system that literally has no place in the game. Are they going to give us content where his potentially exorbitant damage is essential? There's your arguement, I guess.

What do you offer my party?

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

This entire thread is rather pointless now, considering the fact that most problems people have with Ash is more of a personal problem than an a problem with the frame.

21 minutes ago, Altre said:

I'd just like to interject and say that ya'll need to hop on that Tenchu Z. Such ninja, so little anime flair (except when you stab an enemy in the heart through a door....).

Tried playing more with Ash after my part in this debate and came to the same conclusion. I can't think of a time that he gave me something that another frame couldn't. People fighting for his damage potential are fighting for a clunky system that literally has no place in the game. Are they going to give us content where his potentially exorbitant damage is essential? There's your arguement, I guess.

What do you offer my party?

I mean, Ash's damage potential is useful in the index/rathuum with his 3 augment plus CL and as for his "exorbitant" damage output, yes, there is a reason to use it. Bladestorm is an ability that will easily kill anything that doesn't use a damage cap, which is like 90% of the enemies we face, so Bladestorm will oneshot sortie 3 enemies and all you have to do is just swipe left and right while speeding through the mission or just chilling out. So you can complete objectives while you're wiping out rooms of enemies.

Add this to the fact that Bladestorm also procs Arcane Trickery which can potentially give Ash perma invisibility.

Asking if bladestorm's damage is useful, is like asking if finisher attacks are useful.

Hell, Ash is the only frame who can potentially 

Strip armor

Go invisible (also proc Arcane Trickery without actually doing the finishers)

Proc finishers and use CL

And have a damage ability that deals finisher damage and doesn't hinder the player like weapon locking (exalted weapons), animation lock, slow movement.

Also, isn't DE about to release a mode where the objective is to just kill enemies while they get harder?

So in conclusion, I believe you haven't played Ash enough to know what he can do what other frames can't, I mean, tell me one other damage ability that can oneshot lvl 100 enemies without hindering the frame in anyway and offers as much freedom as bladestorm does. 

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Altre said:

Tried playing more with Ash after my part in this debate and came to the same conclusion. I can't think of a time that he gave me something that another frame couldn't.

Could you elaborate what you mean by this?

[Darkuhn]

try Ash with Venka Prime, 209% Powerstrength, Deadly Teleport and two Arcane Trickery.

Results are:

- Perma Invisibility

- Killing any Enemys you look at and kill tough things like Nox with Teleport. 

You won't feel any difference between lv 10 and lv 100 Grineer. Just mark and they are dead.

He's one of the strongest DPS Frames around at the moment. So stop asking for buffs he don't need. 

[Altre]

I have yet to run with a party in a high level mission, such as t3 sortie, where we had difficulty completing an objective and had an Ash ripping through enemies faster than anyone else due to use of his 4. It gets locked until it's done and in anything outside of extremely high level endless, makes it slower at killing than many other weapons and abilities.

I'd like to see how effective he is in the upcoming content. If his damage potential aids in higher focus gain over other frames and weapons, then he'll have a place.

Right now, there is NOTHING that he can do within standard play that another frame or weapon can't.

You can "kill anything you look at" with a gun, too, until a certain point. After that point, you don't actually get anything special from gameplay besides "bragging rights". You won't get more resources, you won't get more credits (even running him in the Index, people killed enemies faster with weapons than Ash could practically mark them), you won't get more focus (in current missions), you just don't get anything more than "look at these numbers".

Thinking that his high potential output makes him kill faster than everyone else outside of endless makes me think that people haven't played other frames enough....

I still feel like his 4 would be better relegated to an aoe passive that can only kill x number of enemies tied to a stat and drains energy based on each instance of damage. Imagine a world on fire that hits up to maybe 8 enemies with high damage and energy drain per hit, a long with a low passive drain. You can still select high priority targets with 3, strip with 1, and have 2 as a panic button while things passively die during all of these being used. You still have to be careful about getting overwhelmed and still have to watch your energy, you just won't have to deal with the arbitrary targeting of the current system. That's just me, though.

[lexandritte]

Ash is amazing for clearing the Plains, maybe second to Mesa.

Invisibility is always good.

Teleport is amazing mobility to get into camps in and into sniper towers and to #*!% lvl 70 Noxes up.

His 4 is contextual. I use it when I reload, because you can activate it without breaking your reload. This way you can carry around something that reloads forever and basically still have a second gun in your hand. Also it one-shots anything on a dropship or a dargyn if you so much as smudge your pointer past in in half a second - no aiming, no tracking, no calibrating for speed and distance.

TBH I think what his 4 could use is have a circle to select enemies, instead of point dot, like with Mesa - kill anything within the circle.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by lexandritte

[RealPandemonium]

14 hours ago, Altre said:

I have yet to run with a party in a high level mission, such as t3 sortie, where we had difficulty completing an objective and had an Ash ripping through enemies faster than anyone else due to use of his 4.

At one end you (rightly) say that this game is too easy and doesn't require the egregious power that Ash has access to, but on the other end you're saying that he can't press4towin fast enough?  Is killing the fastest the only criterion for frame design?  What about easy access to Finishers, or the feeling of security you get from knowing "I can kill anything I need to kill, for sure, no matter the target."  While also being able to go invisible, teleport to enemies, become intangible, and kill enemies off-screen while also doing something else?  Feels like there are some pieces missing, here.

[Altre]

There aren't two contradictory ends to what I said and I mean exactly what I said. His damage output is an artillery cannon where an SMG would be far more effective. His damage based abilities do not keep up until marginally higher level content, which is irrelevant in the current game. People keep talking about flicking the mouse around the screen and killing everything, but that's only what happens on paper in relevant gameplay. Instead, a there's a Nova or a Banshee or a Saryn or a Mesa or a xxxxxx (insert frame with high kill capacity) that kills your targets before your clones can finish and do it without flicking their wrist. He needs one ability to make his cannon tactically relevant and that's teleport.

His 4 should be passive, like he's subconsciously controlling clones to take down random targets while still having access to 2 other targeted abilities (his one still needs some work, honestly) for eximus units and a that nifty panic button. He could teleport in the middle of a squad and still be doing damage without the clunky use of his current 4. I don't want everything to die from him pressing 4, I want him to be relevant, and my suggested change doesn't come close to making him overpowered.

[RealPandemonium]

5 hours ago, Altre said:

There aren't two contradictory ends to what I said and I mean exactly what I said. His damage output is an artillery cannon where an SMG would be far more effective. His damage based abilities do not keep up until marginally higher level content, which is irrelevant in the current game. People keep talking about flicking the mouse around the screen and killing everything, but that's only what happens on paper in relevant gameplay. Instead, a there's a Nova or a Banshee or a Saryn or a Mesa or a xxxxxx (insert frame with high kill capacity) that kills your targets before your clones can finish and do it without flicking their wrist. He needs one ability to make his cannon tactically relevant and that's teleport.

His 4 should be passive, like he's subconsciously controlling clones to take down random targets while still having access to 2 other targeted abilities (his one still needs some work, honestly) for eximus units and a that nifty panic button. He could teleport in the middle of a squad and still be doing damage without the clunky use of his current 4. I don't want everything to die from him pressing 4, I want him to be relevant, and my suggested change doesn't come close to making him overpowered.

What about the player who wants to bring an artillery cannon to games? Their satisfaction is not a goal? 

Why don't we just give every frame a 9000000 damage room-cleaner skill so that it's fair for everyone except people who want to play a game, who will be effectively excluded from matchmaking since they don't want to kill "as efficiently as possible?"

You see what I mean, here?  You're saying he can't kill as fast as other frames who are capable of killing much too fast, but at the same time saying that he doesn't need a press4towin power on his 4.  You're also suggesting that his 4 become a passive ability, which it already pretty much is at this point.  So do you want more interactive, interesting gameplay, or are you upset that you can't get top kills in each round with Ash?

Edited April 20, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[Buddhakingpen]

is this a troll?

[Altre]

8 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

What about the player who wants to bring an artillery cannon to games? Their satisfaction is not a goal? 

Why don't we just give every frame a 9000000 damage room-cleaner skill so that it's fair for everyone except people who want to play a game, who will be effectively excluded from matchmaking since they don't want to kill "as efficiently as possible?"

If you like only playing high tier content to feel like you're being effective, that's great! You do you! Have fun! But don't be under the illusion that you're doing anything with that Ash in a level 60 mission that can't be done with something else. Missions aren't races, but I also don't want the ego I get from people that boast about Ashs damage output and then underperform.

"What if I want to see really high numbers?" Go take an advanced theory of mathmatics class or go fix bugs in games with broken damage mechanics. What if I want a ninja frame with a proper ninja kit that fits into the game?

This misunderstanding is why I backed out of this debate before. Your side of the debate seems to think that we want everything to either instantly die or Ash to not be able to kill anything. That's just not accurate. I want him to have a balanced kit and stay relevant. I don't think your arguement is silly, I think you just don't understand the other side of the table enough to seriously consider it. Folks like Buddhakingpen seem to think that if they can't comprehend an arguement, the proponent on the other end is "prolly a troll". I don't think I could effectively convey my opinion then and probably can't do it now, so I'll secede again.

Gonna play with the new kitty. Have fun!

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, Altre said:

If you like only playing high tier content to feel like you're being effective, that's great! You do you! Have fun! But don't be under the illusion that you're doing anything with that Ash in a level 60 mission that can't be done with something else. Missions aren't races, but I also don't want the ego I get from people that boast about Ashs damage output and then underperform.

Logically speaking, the argument of "What X can do can also be done by Y" can be used for anything, not just Ash.

My strun wraith with a god roll riven can easily oneshot lvl 100 enemies, so does that mean every Damage frame is useless to me? 

I have a crap ton of energy & health pads and I use zenurik, so does that mean every support frame is irrelevant to me?

The point is that your argument of Ash not being the only one to kill high lvl enemies fast is a weak argument due to the fact that everybody uses that for literally any damage frame/weapon they don't like, and most of the time it is because of inexperience, you claim Ash is to slow to kill enemies, yet I can blitz through lvl 1-40 missions oneshotting everything with shuriken and blitz through lvl 50-100 missions oneshotting with bladestorm.

Nobody here understands your argument because your argument is just the generic "Y can slightly do what X does", not only that but it seems like you're the only person here who thinks Ash isn't revelent, and your idea basically ruins his 4 because what's the point in using a damage ability if it doesn't kill enemies in seconds?

So in conclusion, Ash just isn't your type of frame, and if you want a "passive" frame, then I suggest Equinox and Ember. 

If turning Ash into a worse Ember is your idea of "making him revelent" than you should of stayed out of this debate and let the actual Ash players talk.

Edit: fixed some grammar and I hope you enjoy the cat frame.

Edit2: Also, if nobody understands your argument, then it's just a bad argument.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Altre]

53 minutes ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

The point is that your argument of Ash not being the only one to kill high lvl enemies fast is a weak argument due to the fact that everybody uses that for literally any damage frame/weapon they don't like, and most of the time it is because of inexperience, you claim Ash is to slow to kill enemies, yet I can blitz through lvl 1-40 missions oneshotting everything with shuriken and blitz through lvl 50-100 missions oneshotting with bladestorm.

So in conclusion, Ash just isn't your type of frame, and if you want a "passive" frame, then I suggest Equinox and Ember. 

If turning Ash into a worse Ember is your idea of "making him revelent" than you should of stayed out of this debate and let the actual Ash players talk.

Edit2: Also, if nobody understands your argument, then it's just a bad argument.

 

I can completely say the same for your argument, buddy. I was actually trying to converse about making his kit better. I like EVERYTHING in this game, but I especially like it when things have a place in the game.

Telling people that they don't need to be in a debate because you don't think they're qualified is bluntly ignorant and a lazy defence. Your strun riven is excellent and can fit it many places of the game, unlike Ash. Equip it on a CC frame with a team and go to town. Pads are actually valid subs at this point for Trin with raids being gone. Maybe in the new mission type, the frames valued in raids will be valuable again. CC will always be valuable and stat boosting support will, as well. Ash kind of doesn't do any of that, though. He's great for solo.

Ember and Equinox (mostly Equinox after a point) will do fine for many missions, actually, and either perform equal to or outperform Ash in groups. Things will die before you can flick that mouse around because the damage hits things you literally don't even have to look at. Ash looks at enemies, input lag, then hope your 4 kills first and that's if it actually marks all of the intended targets in the first place.

Make a video of you "blitzing" through a mission from 40 up to level 100 with any group of medium damage output from. I'd like to see these "blitzes" of you killing EVERYTHING with his 1. Ash does it slower. Not slowly, slower until high levels that have no practical value in standard gameplay.

Your description of my version of 4 not "killing things in seconds" shows that you either can't comprehend what I said or you're blindly defending 4 for no logical reason. The ability would ALWAYS be on and ALWAYS be killing, until you run out of energy at least. There just wouldn't be a redundant marking system. Sorry that's so hard to understand.

Bud, I've got the essential mods to cap almost every stat for every piece of equipment. I'm not new to the game. I experiment and test things in this for hours just like I used to in Armored Core. The only things I don't care to do in the game at this point are push the fringes of builds and do frivolous things. I'm not in this to patronize people I don't agree with and act like they can't join a conversation because they don't like what I like. "Actual Ash players" aren't the only people on the playground that play with him and it doesn't take a specialized class to see how something in a game can be optimised.

Cat frame is fun, btw. Her 1 seems to have an odd hitbox/targeting mechanic. The new blades are dope.

[Zext]

11 hours ago, Altre said:

-snip-

 

One of the best things about Ash is how energy efficient he is. His skills are very cheap and don't stop energy gain, and in turn, makes them really spammable. I wouldn't want bladestorm to be a channeling toggle for this reason.

Bladestorm's range spans across the largest tilesets, and the amount of line of sight required is very, very minimal which allows you to hit enemies behind cover with it. It also gets enemies behind ramparts, too. All in all, in both my experiences and what seems to be most others, the marking system isn't really the main thing holding bladestorm back. It's also fun and unique to him. It gives control over your ability which is what you want on a stealth frame. I can pick out the guys in my way so I don't get caught, but not just randomly kill everyone so that some grineer gets suspicious over his friend dying in front of him. (It doesn't even alert grineer regulators if you don't kill them in one hit for whatever reason, so you can keep spamming it on them until they die!)

There are two major things I'd say slow down blade storm: the amount of shadow clones, and the inability to mark new targets once they are sent out. The second would be easy to fix - just let him mark more targets even if you already set the boys out. The second one is a little trickier, can't add too much clones or it'll be OP. Tying the amount to a stat could work, as you suggested in your version.

And one last thing, you said Ash doesn't have anywhere to fit in.. but then say he's good for solo. And I can name a few things that make him good for stealth too. Isn't that already somewhere to be relevant? Or does it not count for some arbitrary reason?

[Altre]

1 hour ago, Zext said:

-snip-

Having his 4 being a toggle wouldn't change anything about his energy efficiency. You could still have energy refunded on kill. There are all sorts of ways that this method could be played with to maintain viability and make it relevant, it just seems like no one on your side of the table wants to consider that.

Ash is a stealth combat frame, not just pure stealth. I'm running Loki or Ivara for pure stealth. His 4 isn't spammable, though I agree the idea of being able to pick out foes for 1 hit death is nice for a stealth game (which isn't Warframe, unless playing solo). You click and wait for it to get done (usually when your team kills what has been marked unless in very high level, irrelevant content). It is also not passive. I understand what people mean when they say it, but it doesn't make sense in the scheme of the game.

I think it's silly that people keep saying that he can passively kill enemies with it. You aren't hitting enemies that are out of sight because the ability literally requires line of sight to mark. The enemies you think you're killing are actually running out of range and getting killed by allies (unless you're playing solo or your party is taking their time). You're actually hitting enemies that could've already been dead and that's IF you're the one that gets the kill. As far as Arcane Trickery goes, it isn't consistent enough to be relied on for perma invis. I've got two complete sets and was super excited to give it a whirl and it just wasn't consistent.

"There are two major things I'd say slow down blade storm: the amount of shadow clones, and the inability to mark new targets once they are sent out. The second would be easy to fix - just let him mark more targets even if you already set the boys out. The second one is a little trickier, can't add too much clones or it'll be OP. Tying the amount to a stat could work, as you suggested in your version."

I do agree and this may change my opinion of him. His pacing bothers me, so increasing the rate and execution of his marking may push me to the other side of this table of feeling like it's not clunky.

I kind of have an issue with his overall kit and that it doesn't have much cohesion with parties, therefore doesn't have much perfunctory use in practical gameplay. Maybe if they added a function to his 2 where charging it makes the stun cloud larger or something would alleviate that. 🤔

Or if he was a character in Tenchu Z, he'd be perfect!

[Natfrog123]

The screen jumping and non killable enemies are gone. Please give me back my original Bladestorm mechanics with the problems solved. This would make Ash great again. Marking a single enemy is not fun. Violently shaking my mouse or breaking my joystick is not fun. I have literally broken an X-Box controller trying to play Ash.

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎21 at 2:30 PM, Altre said:

Or if he was a character in Tenchu Z, he'd be perfect!

Another fellow Tenchu Z fan.  Cool.  

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, Natfrog123 said:

I have literally broken an X-Box controller trying to play Ash.

That more of your fault than Ash's. 

I play on console too and I use Ash's Bladestorm build an I never broke my controller. 😛

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 21.4.2018 um 07:08 schrieb Altre:

 

Make a video of you "blitzing" through a mission from 40 up to level 100 with any group of medium damage output from. I'd like to see these "blitzes" of you killing EVERYTHING with his 1. Ash does it slower. Not slowly, slower until high levels that have no practical value in standard gameplay.

You know, shurikens 500 damage base that's boostable to like 1.000 damage on max efficiency (with intensify, transient fortitude and power drift ...  1.135 if you add a rank 2 blind rage on max fleeting+streamline) is a tad superior to embers old WoF that required max range and lowered efficiency for similar results (overextendet+stretch+drift for the range, transient+max blind rage for a bit below 800 damage). For ash, it would be 4-5/8 frame slots + exilus for that alone, what would allow him to have his stats boosted, energy management (tho zenurik is possible too...it's nor like you're channeling anything imo) and have casting speed (possible alternative to power drift too, totalling 875 slash damage on hit alone)

Ember destroyed those level ranges with the damage base alone (hardly anyone ever used accelerant). What makes you think a doubleshot aimbot that's setting slash proccs totalling 5.375 damage over 9s in 60m range base (1.000 damage example...the 1.000 fall off on armor, 4375 are static finisher damage. Ember dealt 3600 over 6 fully affected by armor) would fall behind that?

You want fast, easy damage? Build for it and use shurikens. Add arcane trickery and combo duration to your melee and you're literally able to transit to bladestorming where ember literally could do s**t to enemys no problem.

Let me just set this up and join a kuva survival and i'll give you a vid.

Edit: ps4 kinda bugged out and didn't auto record and i wasn't 100% satisfied anyways but that's what i was running with

http://imgur.com/gallery/7pgtDuU

And here are the results from spamming shuriken and BS pretty much exclusive

http://imgur.com/gallery/hRmQQyO

What worked well were the shurikens untill armor hit in strong. The ticks did good damage and did they did theyr job good even hitting trough walls but i was kinda dissatisfied with them loosing damage while i was in a position where i would hit enemys multiple times in longer games so i replaced natural talent with seeking shuriken. That augument without duration isn't really worth it even then and the second thing i wasn't satisfied with was that i couldn't trigger trickery to perfection (only targeted enemys close by) so i lowered the strength for more duration (no real difference to the math due to the stance...)

So that's the final build for lazy man's ash.

http://imgur.com/gallery/TJVJ3x5

Edited June 12, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

There it is. Playing ash fast in a squad with a octavia, frost and a ember.

Please note that that's only playing him fast. I didn't even start to play him effective.

(Except for the effective support by dbuffing armor.)

Edited June 11, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Altre]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

There it is. Playing ash fast in a squad with a octavia, frost and a ember.

Please note that that's only playing him fast. I didn't even start to play him effective.

(Except for the effective support by dbuffing armor.)

I'll load up and give it a whirl. I would still like a video of enemies being blitzed through. Not while playing with support frames. I want to see him outkill other kill frames with his 1 in level 100 content.

That doesn't compensate his 4 lacking effective use in relevant content, though. What is his 4 for in relevant content? And why does the targeting seem to not want to function on my machine like other people claim happens on their with the whole "flick of the wrist killing hordes" schtick.

The idea of Ash is fun, the kit just doesn't feel cogent in game.

[Nazrethim]

hace 2 horas, Altre dijo:

I'll load up and give it a whirl. I would still like a video of enemies being blitzed through. Not while playing with support frames. I want to see him outkill other kill frames with his 1 in level 100 content.

That doesn't compensate his 4 lacking effective use in relevant content, though. What is his 4 for in relevant content? And why does the targeting seem to not want to function on my machine like other people claim happens on their with the whole "flick of the wrist killing hordes" schtick.

The idea of Ash is fun, the kit just doesn't feel cogent in game.

You need twich reflex enhaced aim to do that, if you activate marking mode just before use that is, if you have it on all the time it doesn't matter.

Ash has just too many issues, but with sheer skill or broken modding, you can handle it and making work, sort of. Still pointless for most of the relevant recent content though without some buffer or infinite energy generator.

I would just like if DE got rid of "you can't use Teleport because of sh*tstorm" problem. Seriously, it makes no godam sense.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Nazrethim