Ash Feedback

[Dragazer]

Just now, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

Also I'd like to point out that each attack from bladestorm takes TIME. The marking mechanic takes WAY to long for a skill that takes even LONGER to do damage. If I'm going to aim at something chances are that enemy is probably already going to be shot by me and die anyways so why so many steps to use Blade Storm? Press a button and let it slowly do it's thing.

Furthermore, the damage is delayed as well. Most of the damage comes from slash procs meaning it takes 9 seconds (10 ticks) for each mark to deal their full damage.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

LOL

Mesa?

There's a literall s**tton of threads about how much of a glass-cannon she is when any kind of ability-jam or corners come into play.

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

 

Excal?

Same concept with LoS

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

Ivara?

Yeah and kinda no. Ultimate is bad as can be and wasn't sleeping nerfed?

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

 Mirage and Octavia with their buffed dmg on weapons?

Mirages buff is known to be pretty much broken, so are her clones. Octavia is actually solid.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

his only selling point is damage, which is outclassed by frames that can deal more 

And top notch survivability. But go ahead. Name one ability that's able to deal an average of 50-700k finisher damage per target in a 50m radius. I'll wait.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Dragazer]

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

There's a literall s**tton of threads about how much of a glass-cannon she is when any kind of ability-jam or corners come into play.

ability jams affect Ash too or basically every frame in the game.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Same concept with LoS

Its not the same when Excal can spam e without waiting on some clunky targeting mechanics.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yeah and kinda no. Ultimate is bad as can be and wasn't sleeping nerfed?

Clearly has not played Ivara... Artemis bow can easily one shot bosses, and with the new hunter's munitions can scale well into endgame. No sleep arrow has not been nerfed and can still work with CL

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Mirages buff is known to be pretty much broken, so are her clones. Octavia is actually solid.

 Broken in what way they work just as intended 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And top notch survivability. But go ahead. Name one ability that's able to deal an average of 50-700k finisher damage per target in a 50m radius. I'll wait.

"top notch survivability". something that 3 other frames can do, arguably better with Octavia's invis being recastable and can be shared with teammates without an augment and without being limited to 5m radius.

LOL and are you confusing things with old Ash now? You are not going to take the time to just mark everything around you in 50m radius not mention the fact you cant mark behind obstacles or other enemies. Or the fact that to apply multiple marks you need to shake the mouse over again. 

Lets not forget the fact that BS only summons 2 clones to do the work for you, meaning you are at most only hitting 2 enemies a second after you finish marking your enemies.

You obviously ignored this point because you clearly have no argument against it:

Quote

inb4 muh finisher dmg: Nothing special, maybe if this was 2 years ago, but slash is meta on weapons, with many new mods (Hunter's munitions) and weapons making slash builds easier than ever to build for. Plus 4x cp has always been a thing.

BTW your 50-700k finisher dmg is a massive exaggeration .

Quote

Furthermore, the damage is delayed as well. Most of the damage comes from slash procs meaning it takes 9 seconds (10 ticks) for each mark to deal their full damage.

if that number was even true to begin with it would take 9 seconds for the full damage to apply. In 9 seconds there are plenty of weapons that can out damage BS for zero energy cost, no need to rely on combo counters that can reset or require a build up time, or clunky mechanics.

Stop acting like finisher or slash procs are something special anymore, its 2018 slash builds are pretty much standard on any viable weapons now with things like Hunters munitions, status weapons and mods.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Dragazer

[Thrymm]

1 minute ago, Dragazer said:

BS cannot target enemies behind other enemies or behind obstacles, you are going to have to repostion yourself to do that. Enemies are not going to be standing all in one area they are going to be spread around the room, which requires pinpoint aim to mark.

you need to repeat the step again for multiple marks

Once again, if my crosshair is on the target, why am I not just firing my gun instead to get the job done faster?

Once again, if you can kill it as fast as you mark it, you SHOULD use your gun.  Regardless of how unclear I may have been with other things, I'm sure I mentioned that.  Why would anyone care about bladestorm mechanics, or any other warframe ability for that matter, if a simple room sweep would clear it?

As far as line of sight and all that......old bladestorm, without the marking system, also used line of sight.  If they where entirely not available, it didn't work on them then either.  It's by design.

But as I'd mentioned in the original post(since bastardized for......other purposes), I already understand all this, and already understand that it may not be to the tastes of some.  I even mentioned that I agree that it needs polish----whether that means getting rid of marking or some other way.

I already agreed that it was as presented, that sometimes guns are better, and some people will probably not like it, I simply disagree about the perceived difficulty of using it.  So honestly, why the heck are we arguing semantics with me? 

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

5 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

BS cannot target enemies behind other enemies or behind obstacles, you are going to have to repostion yourself to do that. Enemies are not going to be standing all in one area they are going to be spread around the room, which requires pinpoint aim to mark.

If you want multiple marks now you have to shake your mouse for a few seconds around your targets.

Once again, if my crosshair is on the target, why am I not just firing my gun instead to get the job done faster?

Exactly! Just remove the whole damn marking system and make BS like it used to be.... Auto targeting AoE. Keep the current shadow clone jutsu and the allies can damage red outlined Ash targets and it would be amazing again. In the words of Trump... Make An_Ash_ica great again. 

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

1 minute ago, Thrymm said:

As far as line of sight and all that......old bladestorm, without the marking system, also used line of sight.  If they where entirely not available, it didn't work on them then either.  It's by design.

Someone didn't play Ash very much.... Max range Ash would target EVERYTHING no matter where it was.

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

As far as line of sight and all that......old bladestorm, without the marking system, also used line of sight.  If they where entirely not available, it didn't work on them then either.  It's by design.

Wrong, old BS only used LoS for the initial target, any enemies within a 25m base radius (modable) will be automatically targeted even through obstacles. 

5 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

Once again, if you can kill it as fast as you mark it, you SHOULD use your gun.  Regardless of how unclear I may have been with other things, I'm sure I mentioned that.  Why would anyone care about bladestorm mechanics, or any other warframe ability for that matter, if a simple room sweep would clear it?

You see that's the problem... Properly built weapons with the current slash build meta are always going to outdamage BS. Meaning there is no situation where you want to use BS when you could just use your superior modded gun.

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 horas, Dragazer dijo:

BTW your 50-700k finisher dmg is a massive exaggeration .

You can get to those numbers with a combination of ludicrously overpowered mods and arcanes stacked together and a massive x5-6 combo counter. And by combining the damage of both the 3 mark attacks+their bleeds as one single damage that in his mind happens instantly.

He just thinks that because ONE super expensive rare and specific setup does insane damage (using things that make even pre-revisit Oberon oneshot Sortie Hek but whatever) the ability sort of justifies it's clunky mechanics.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 19.2.2018 um 05:19 schrieb Dragazer:

 

Mesa? Excal? Ivara? Mirage and Octavia with their buffed dmg on weapons?

 

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Dragazer:

 

LOL and are you confusing things with old Ash now? You are not going to take the time to just mark everything around you in 50m radius not mention the fact you cant mark behind obstacles or other enemies. Or the fact that to apply multiple marks you need to shake the mouse over again. 

Lets not forget the fact that BS only summons 2 clones to do the work for you, meaning you are at most only hitting 2 enemies a second after you finish marking your enemies.

You obviously ignored this point because you clearly have no argument against it:

BTW your 50-700k finisher dmg is a massive exaggeration .

if that number was even true to begin with it would take  6 seconds for the full damage to apply. In 6 seconds there are plenty of weapons that can out damage BS for zero energy cost, no need to rely on combo counters that can reset or require a build up time, or clunky mechanics.

Oh now it's weapons.

Please, go ahead, name a weapon that can cover that range and is able to deal that ammount of damage and keep in mind that ash can do both simultaneous.

Don't mind me quoting the part too where you don't need to actively aim at enemys up to 50m away to actually mark them.

Edited February 20, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Maka.Bones]

Solution: Go invisible.

Btw, aren't you invulnerable while you're in 4th's animation?

[Maka.Bones]

Also.... Correlation =/= causation.

 

Meaning, that just because you don't see a lot of ash players, doesn't mean he's weak. If anything, he's the most buffed out of all the changes. That's easy to tell, so no one needs to test it out. We already know he's directly buffed. 

At last however, needs to be experimented on. 

Ember too, because we need to figure out a new playstyle

Same with zephyr

But ash? Dude, he's strictly stronger now lol

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

7 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Also.... Correlation =/= causation.

 

Meaning, that just because you don't see a lot of ash players, doesn't mean he's weak. If anything, he's the most buffed out of all the changes. That's easy to tell, so no one needs to test it out. We already know he's directly buffed. 

At last however, needs to be experimented on. 

Ember too, because we need to figure out a new playstyle

Same with zephyr

But ash? Dude, he's strictly stronger now lol

Where do I start? 

"that just because you don't see a lot of ash players, doesn't mean he's weak."

You are right... It means he is not FUN to play. Isn't that MORE important? If a frame is not played much NOW when he was played MORE before what changed? The damage stayed about the same but less players play him? How on Earth could this be? Maybe people don't find the mechanic as FUN as you seem to think it is damaging. Marking ruined the skill and yes the 4 ability is supposed to be the ultimate attack that costs a bit more (not a ton more) than the other 3 skills that scale up as the number gets higher. 1 is you basic skill that you don't need to work for. 2 is a bit more costly as it has a higher level requirement and the pattern continues. Well it used to anyways.

"he's the most buffed out of all the changes"

Based on what? Where he is in a broken state already? You multiply 0 with any number and you still get ZERO. What does that mean you ask? His fun level is zero now. Same would happen if they did a marking system with every other AoE skill in the game to those characters. However I think the player count would just disappear completely if they did that.... just like Ash players did when this happened to begin with. You must base it on the rule... not the exceptions. If the vast majority of players are not playing ash regularly... then listening to those who cried in the first place was a mistake. Everyone agreed that ashes targets being his alone was not healthy for the game... Not one person said that that mechanic had to stay or they would quit the game. People complained about the dizziness of the animation and the falling through the floor. THAT IS IT! No one ever said hey lets have a marking system that slows down Ash even more. See the nerf on Mesa was ok because it took a 360 degree instant win button to a narrow reticule that can still melt TONs of enemies very quickly. Time and FUN are the most important factors here when playing multiplayer. I wish they would just get rid of the marking system completely and put in the old system mechanics. Have a powerful skill with a set number of targets and set energy cost. If you want to build that 700k damage beast be ready to only get to use it 1 - 5times before needing energy. Why is that broken? Sure an efficiency build could potentially spam it once again but with others being able to kill his "targets" who really cares what another frame does? 

"At last"

I assume you mean Atlas and that was an auto correct? Atlas now is going to have the ability to petrify everything with one button push. Atlas is a tank frame that now has the ultimate CC ability. The frame is powerful as hell now.

"Ember too"

Ember is a press 4 and set the world on fire causing decent DoT to EVERYTHING while being a CC. Adding all that INSTANT status to 20 - 30 targets adds up very fast. Ember is still very much fine. 

But the problem is you don't get the big picture. It takes 15 seconds to hit 14 targets minimun. 15 seconds is a lifetime in Warframe. That isn't including the "marking" of an enemy even if you only mark each enemy once which i do not reccomend BTW and if you are a efficiency build you are COMPLETELY screwed.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore with Ash. I don't even think about using 4 anymore except on those annoying flyers in the plains. The rest of the time it's just spam Fatal Teleport with a Sheev. This is what the class has become for me. It's broken. 

"But ash? Dude, he's strictly stronger now"

Then why am I not killing with the same exact build I was using before? If he is by default "stronger", as you claim, why does the build I made before the nerf putting me in the lowest % after game stats I have even seen with Ash?

Let me answer that for you. When Ash had the greedy Ash syndrome (Mine Mine Mine Mine ALL MINE) he was doing artificially high damage. Time wasn't a factor at all because he had all the time in the world to do his 30 second ultimate ability with no fear of his targets dieing due to other players. Now that no longer exists he is barely scraping by because TIME is no longer on his side. I keep repeating this but all those people playing single player Ash against an unrealistic simulacrum thingy think numbers are all that matters. If you really want to make Ash good with the current mechanic you need to make all marked targets instant attacks. Meaning if you have 30 enemies marked 30 clones appear and do damage to every marked target 1 second animation repeat for ever additional mark. This would revitalize Ash to a playable state and MAYBE bring his popularity back up. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by (XB1)Natfrog123

[Maka.Bones]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

It means he is not FUN to play.

Again, correlation =/= causation. 

I suspect it's ust because atm people are more interested in the Atlas/Zephyr/Ember/Banshee reworks instead. Also, Ash doesn't have new Tennogen skins, and can't really be used to hunt eidolons.

You're coming across as very pessimistic/paranoid/accusatory dude lol. There wasn't anything hugely game-changing about ash's rework, other than buffing him. So there isn't much to test out. 

If you're coming out with the lowest% damage, change your build/playstyle. It's not a problem with the frame, it's a problem with how *YOU* play him. Or maybe your peers are jsut that much better than you? Ever consider that? "It's not the sword, but the weilder"

Ember's rework makes her a lot harder for me to use atm, yet I have friends who use her effectively in sorties 3. They get top damage, and don't die often--if at all. Yeah, I need to get better with her, as I'm not as skilled as they are. Did ember take a direct hit to her survivability? yes, but other players can still benefit/use her more effectively than before. If anything, she just requires more skill to use now. 

I used ember as an example. Ash doesn't have that skill requirement. You can literally use your clones as CC/killing bots, while you focus on other/more important targets. The thing about ash's 4th ability, is that it's not supposed to be his main method of killing. It's a supplement, to aid with your gameplay. 

Ash's kit isn't anymore a "spam to win"  because if you do, you'll lose efficiency.  Think of it more as a bag of tools/batman's utility belt. Use what you need, based on the situation/circumstance you need it.

TLDR: Ash is the one of the only frames in my arsenal that I can 100% take to any mission/sortie/lvl and still play effectively (and yes, I often get top damage unless i'm just plainly outclassed by other players). I haven't used him since the rework, because i'm already confident in my skill with ash. I don't need to practice with him lol. I do however, need to practice/develop a new play-style with Ember/Atlas. That's honestly why you don't see as many Ash players. Not because he's boring, and under powered... because we're already confident with our capacity to use Ash effectively. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

Ember is a press 4 and set the world on fire causing decent DoT to EVERYTHING while being a CC. Adding all that INSTANT status to 20 - 30 targets adds up very fast. Ember is still very much fine.

Sounds like you've never touched ember.

Ember's WoF can only affect a max of 9 targets at a time. The range is also hugely reduced with the new update, so it's only really effective at melee range, as a CC. Unless you build for max range, then the damage at that point is meaningless. It only works as a mediocre CC.

You're losing credibility here, at increasing speeds. It doesn't sound like you really know your frames.

[Maka.Bones]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

Based on what? Where he is in a broken state already? You multiply 0 with any number and you still get ZERO. What does that mean you ask? His fun level is zero now.

Ash's 4th now doesn't slow you down. Dude, it's an amazing CC, can be used to clear trash mobs. You can use it, and keep moving. It is INSANE. Have you even played ash?

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

His fun level is zero now.

If you don't like him, and are going to be so biasedly negative, just play something else. I'm done here lmao. You've lost all your credibility.  If you want me to help you learn how to play ash better, I can teach you. Because it sounds like you're only relying on using his 4th for all your damage, when it doesn't work that way. Ash wasn't broken before the rework, he was still very good. Now he's much better. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

4 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Ash's 4th now doesn't slow you down. Dude, it's an amazing CC, can be used to clear trash mobs. You can use it, and keep moving. It is INSANE. Have you even played ash?

If you don't like him, and are going to be so biasedly negative, just play something else. I'm done here lmao. You've lost all your credibility.  If you want me to help you learn how to play ash better, I can teach you. Because it sounds like you're only relying on using his 4th for all your damage, when it doesn't work that way. Ash wasn't broken before the rework, he was still very good. Now he's much better. 

That is your opinion and that is ok... It however is not the opinion of the majority of players because you hardly ever see an Ash in everyday play. I'm sorry you disagree but that is just a fact. People are not playing Ash no matter what the reason may be. I just seem like my opinion is in line with reality of the majority of players. That doesn't make it right and I understand that but just saying the frame is good because I like it also doesn't make it right. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by (XB1)Natfrog123

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

4 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Have you even played ash?

Yes I mained Ash for 2.5 years before the nerf. The new Ash is just gimped in group play. I'm not talking about things every frame can do I am solely talking about Blade Storm on console. It is a hot mess to mark targets in a group setting. Unless you mark a single enemy or 2, which in either case FT is a much better option, marking 20 targets and pressing the button again hits maybe 4 or 5 of those targets and the rest are already dead.

[Maka.Bones]

25 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

 

*Edit* Deleted accidental double post.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

26 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

just saying the frame is good because I like it also doesn't make it right.

Just saying the game (ash) is bad, because you don't like it, isn't right either. Actually a huge amount of players do like Ash's rework. So you stating that the majority doesn't like it, isn't accurate. 

 

But! 

Onconsole, I can see how it would be a lot harder to mark many targets efficiently. Yeah, that would slow you down. Sorry I didn't consider that earlier. But that wouldn't be caused by the recent rework.

On PC, we can target Everything by just skimming across our screen. It takes like 0.5-2 seconds, and we can keep doing our thing. 

 

Btw blade storm does finisher damage. I think the damage does cap out at higher lvls, as enemies probably have more HP than the damage he can dish out. Idk if melee mods also contribute to the damage? Never used it as a primary source of damage myself. Only when overwhelmed

 

*Edit* come to think of it, most disgruntled ash players that I've noticed, are console players. Maybe that's the key factor here?

Edited February 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

18 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

On console, I can see how it would be a lot harder to mark many targets efficiently. Yeah, that would slow you down. Sorry I didn't consider that earlier. But that wouldn't be caused by the recent rework.

It used to be auto mark. So yes it was the original rework and not the latest but the latest rework still has not come to console either. Either way stopping to mark or firing my weapon the choice is easy for me. Plain out do not use Blade Storm at all.

"Btw blade storm does finisher damage. I think the damage does cap out at higher lvls, as enemies probably have more HP than the damage he can dish out. Idk if melee mods also contribute to the damage? Never used it as a primary source of damage myself. Only when overwhelmed"

Finisher damage is not even relevant as 4 CPs strip 100% of armor anyways and if you are doing high level stuff 4 CPs are the way to go in ALL cases.

Edited February 21, 2018 by (XB1)Natfrog123

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

It used to be auto mark. So yes it was the original rework and not the latest but the latest rework still has not come to console either. Either way stopping to mark or firing my weapon the choice is easy for me. Plain out do not use Blade Storm at all.

"Btw blade storm does finisher damage. I think the damage does cap out at higher lvls, as enemies probably have more HP than the damage he can dish out. Idk if melee mods also contribute to the damage? Never used it as a primary source of damage myself. Only when overwhelmed"

Finisher damage is not even relevant as 4 CPs strip 100% of armor anyways and if you are doing high level stuff 4 CPs are the way to go in ALL cases.

Why? you can just strip armor from enemy targets with your 1. 

Most enemies won't survive  getting shot, and the ones who do, just use your 1st on em. 

Plus my primaries usually peel off armor efficiently. 

 

Also finisher damage still matters, even with 4 CP. It also bypasses shields, so it works against corpus as well.

 

4CP isn't really mandatory anymore man. Not with so many other options to peel armor. I think your general team build sounds like it would be effective for ember, mirage, or straight damage-type frames/weapons. 

I guess if you don't want to use corrosive element, or build for status, then yeah you'd want 4CP. My vectis doesn't need it though. Nor do my melee weps, or most primaries that I use endgame. 

Sounds like a different style. What's your ash/primary/secondary/melee build? 

What other frames are usually in your team comp?

Edited February 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

Yes I mained Ash for 2.5 years before the nerf. The new Ash is just gimped in group play. I'm not talking about things every frame can do I am solely talking about Blade Storm on console. It is a hot mess to mark targets in a group setting. Unless you mark a single enemy or 2, which in either case FT is a much better option, marking 20 targets and pressing the button again hits maybe 4 or 5 of those targets and the rest are already dead.

 

54 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Onconsole, I can see how it would be a lot harder to mark many targets efficiently. Yeah, that would slow you down. Sorry I didn't consider that earlier. But that wouldn't be caused by the recent rework.

On PC, we can target Everything by just skimming across our screen. It takes like 0.5-2 seconds, and we can keep doing our thing.

I use a controller on PC.  I generally just toggle BS on the whole time just so I can whip it out at a moments notice.  Also, depending on how you have your controller's analog and/or in-game look/aim sensitivity, it's really not much harder to mark targets using a controller.  I would like to say that it's more a familiarity thing in most cases.  I will admit that Controllers on PC have a few more configuration options than those same controllers on console.  Which is kinda strange in a few ways.   

Edit:  just offering advice and info to help fellow Tenno.   

Edited February 21, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Altre]

29 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why? you can just strip armor from enemy targets with your 1. 

Most enemies won't survive  getting shot, and the ones who do, just use your 1st on em. 

Plus my primaries usually peel off armor efficiently. 

 

Also finisher damage still matters, even with 4 CP. It also bypasses shields, so it works against corpus as well.

CP has always been essential for high level combat due to THE ENTIRE CREW being able to do damage with their chosen source. Shields can be easily bypassed with toxic effects and proc damage. The issue isn't whether or not finish damage is relevant, it's whether or not the marking system is practical. I've had issues with the targeting actually marking enemies. Like, enemies within 10 meters that the cursor clearly passes over. If you and other people don't have this issue, fantastic!

Those of us that do have this issue would like to be able to fully enjoy ninja frame. There's nothing to debate. They need to find a better solution.

[DatDarkOne]

11 minutes ago, Altre said:

Those of us that do have this issue would like to be able to fully enjoy ninja frame. There's nothing to debate. They need to find a better solution.

One Tenno in another Ash topic suggested for BladeStorm to be completely replaced with something very similar to one of the special attacks that 2B has in Nier: Automata.  I forget the name of the skill at the moment, but it very nicely fits the BS idea and theme.

Edit:  just looked it up.  It's the Pod Program called R020: Mirage

there's another called Blade that might be interesting also.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by DatDarkOne
added additional detail

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, Altre said:

CP has always been essential for high level combat due to THE ENTIRE CREW being able to do damage with their chosen source. Shields can be easily bypassed with toxic effects and proc damage. The issue isn't whether or not finish damage is relevant, it's whether or not the marking system is practical. I've had issues with the targeting actually marking enemies. Like, enemies within 10 meters that the cursor clearly passes over. If you and other people don't have this issue, fantastic!

Those of us that do have this issue would like to be able to fully enjoy ninja frame. There's nothing to debate. They need to find a better solution.

I like how CP is mandatory, so people don't need to mod for corrosive and the "entire crew can do damage with their chosen source" but you ignore shields.... Because toxin damage can bypass them. So when it comes to shields, it doesn't matter what the crew wants to use lol. That's contradicting.

 

I rarely need to use CP myself. Haven't had many issues with enemy armor, unless I'm trying to kill things with ember/ignis. Or trying to kill Nox, in sorties that have augmented armor.

 

But yes, if targeting *is* an issue, it should be fixed 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones