What role does Ember fullfill?

[Shockness]

Before I'll talk about this I want everyone to know that I didn't play Ember before the revisit by far, I've only started playing her now because of the unvaulting and how I like the badass look she has.

 

I do not know how good Ember was before, but I can say that Ember right now does not seem to be pleasant at all to play, I've tried many different loadout now, trying to find a fun yet good combination. But none have succeed.

It came to my mind that Ember felt like she didn't have a role in the game, unlike other warframes. Even thought DE says Ember is the original DPS, she sure doesn't feel like a dps to me, theres more, fun, better warframes that fullfill the role of dps. Is she a crowd controller then maybe? Firequake does sound like it, but with 250% range having a max of 37m that will be halved after 9.5s to 18,5m it's just pathetic.

Ember has 0 survivability aswell, I've tried making her durable by putting 2 set of Arcane Guardian on her but she still feels quiet squishy.

What role does Ember have? She doesn't feel like anything right now, you have to specifically mod her and max her out in one way to make her kinda viable, but there are other warframes just way better instead so why would anyone choose Ember?

I do not want a 4 to win ability, but I'd like abilities that show that Ember is a fire frame that causes damage and mayhem 

What do you guys think?

[Spectre-8]

Ember was always a warframe for farming low level missions 1-30 .

Nothing has changed in this regard , she is still useful for farming low level missions .

Edited February 13, 2018 by Spectre-8

[BansheePrime]

Light CC, Passive damage and CC aura. Damage buff, damage vulnerability and cast buff with flash accelerant. People who sacrifice her power strength for range just to fire quake make my die inside almost as much as people who loved resonating quake and at the same time never ever... EVER used sonar. Also that one dude whos name I forget who said Banshee is only good for low levels.

Edited February 13, 2018 by BansheePrime

[Stoner]

Her kit revolved around her World on Fire. They nerfed its range and energy consumption to an absurd level imo and she isn't very fun to play. I even tried making a build for her fireballs...

I'm calling it right now, she's the next Mag.

[Shockness]

7 minutes ago, Spectre-8 said:

Ember was always a warframe for farming low level missions 1-30 .

Nothing has changed in this regard , she is still useful for farming low level missions .

But should DE really limit a warframe to lower levels? In my opinion every warframe should be en game viable with maxed mods and gear.

[taiiat]

Ember is a mix of a bit of everything, offensively concerned. some CC, and lots of DPS + sharing that with Allies to increase their Damage as well.

the most nuts thing Ember has now is that Flash Accelerant is still a mandatory Mod, but now Fire Blast gives a Damage Bonus as well - what this means is Ember can now deal hilarious Damage to things if you stack those Bonuses.
additionally, three of Embers' Abilities can now buff Allies, adding a ton of extra Damage and then Multiplying that Damage on top of that.

 

(oh, also Ember is not a Warframe that is limited to Lv10 Enemies - Ember is only that way if you use the completely garbage Loadout that's circlejerked around by Youtube and Twitch. just because it is popular, does not necessarily mean it is effective!)

Edited February 13, 2018 by taiiat

[BansheePrime]

Just now, Shockness said:

But should DE really limit a warframe to lower levels? In my opinion every warframe should be en game viable with maxed mods and gear.

But DE does not. That guy just does not know a thing about the frame he's talking about.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Kinda the same, for low lvl stuff, BUT you have to tweak your build-remove some str mod and add more range, and due to energy cost rise i dunno if you can maintain perma WoF without Energize set anymore, even with 1.5 enenrgy\sec.

That nerf war unneeded and achieved nothing really, literally.

[Shockness]

7 minutes ago, BansheePrime said:

Light CC, Passive damage and CC aura. Damage buff, damage vulnerability and cast buff with flash accelerant. People who sacrifice her power strength for range just to fire quake make my die inside almost as much as people who loved resonating quake and at the same time never ever... EVER used sonar. Also that one dude whos name I forget who said Banshee is only good for low levels.

Like you say, she's a bit of everything, wich is not usefull at all, the damage is too low and unconsistent for high level play, and so is the CC. To make her viable at all, she becomes an energy hungry @#&*(. I just feel like theres no way to mod her without absolutely destroying all other aspects she could offer and if she does, she doesn't even shine in that aspect either.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Shockness

[Spectre-8]

Just now, Shockness said:

But should DE really limit a warframe to lower levels? In my opinion every warframe should be en game viable with maxed mods and gear.

You can play other warframes , it's not like you can't pick a different one .

Options are there , use them .

 

[Olianu]

They tried to cover two birds with one stone and a lot of people don't like what happened, but I find her more engaging now that her Kit has had these tweaks come through.  While opinions will be polar to say the least; I, for one think that they actually did a good job, but overlooked a major glaring problem with the Resplendent Fire Chicken. (Yes, I call her that in game.)

I've mentioned this in another post, but I will mention it here as well.  Ember's problem isn't a lack of damage, I have used World on Fire and watched as the damage go up from around 500 to 1300 without accelrant on a balanced build.  The problem is fire as an element within the game.  It's only main goal is to deal heavy damage to flesh, which is great against about 60~70% of the infested.  Grineer? most of them are armored so it will resist the flames.  Corpus?  Again, good against flesh, but you have to work your way through the shields first and that can be quite the feat. (going by observations of what I've experienced in game.)

In order to make full use of her firey destruction you have to bring corrosive/magnetic weapons so that Grineer/Corpus can actually take the damage.  And I will repeat myself again, if anything, some of her abilities would be a lot more devestating if they had an additional proc hidden within Like what they did with Oberon.  He used to be exclusive to killing Grineer only as he was pure radiation, but now that he's Radiation/impact he can actually do something to corpus.  If DE catches this response to this post, take it into consideration.

[LSG501]

She basically used to be low level press 4 (wof) speed run clearance (although some used her for afk farming defence too) and then when she couldn't kill them anymore she changed into a crowd control via either firequake or accelerant builds, the later of which is still available but personally I preferred firequake.

What she is now, due to people complaining is the same press 4 (wof) speed run clearance frame (which is what they were complaining over) at low levels but the builds changed to a large range to compensate for the range drop and less power strength due to the doubling of damage.  

The crowd control build with firequake just isn't viable anymore due to the nerf in range, ironically this build was never something that was complained about yet it's the one that got nerfed the most, so if you want to crowd control you now need to do accelerant builds

[Shockness]

Just now, Spectre-8 said:

You can play other warframes , it's not like you can't pick a different one .

Options are there , use them .

 

That's not an answer to my question though, obviously you can play other warframes. But if you have to play other warframes because Ember in this case isn't capable of doing high level content then it means Embers design is useless, if this mentality would maintain everyone would be running the same warframe in the end.

[Spectre-8]

Just now, Shockness said:

That's not an answer to my question though, obviously you can play other warframes. But if you have to play other warframes because Ember in this case isn't capable of doing high level content then it means Embers design is useless, if this mentality would maintain everyone would be running the same warframe in the end.

Ember is perfectly fine , she's just a low tier warframe always was and always will be . You have other options just use them.

[Shockness]

2 minutes ago, Olianu said:

They tried to cover two birds with one stone and a lot of people don't like what happened, but I find her more engaging now that her Kit has had these tweaks come through.  While opinions will be polar to say the least; I, for one think that they actually did a good job, but overlooked a major glaring problem with the Resplendent Fire Chicken. (Yes, I call her that in game.)

I've mentioned this in another post, but I will mention it here as well.  Ember's problem isn't a lack of damage, I have used World on Fire and watched as the damage go up from around 500 to 1300 without accelrant on a balanced build.  The problem is fire as an element within the game.  It's only main goal is to deal heavy damage to flesh, which is great against about 60~70% of the infested.  Grineer? most of them are armored so it will resist the flames.  Corpus?  Again, good against flesh, but you have to work your way through the shields first and that can be quite the feat. (going by observations of what I've experienced in game.)

In order to make full use of her firey destruction you have to bring corrosive/magnetic weapons so that Grineer/Corpus can actually take the damage.  And I will repeat myself again, if anything, some of her abilities would be a lot more devestating if they had an additional proc hidden within Like what they did with Oberon.  He used to be exclusive to killing Grineer only as he was pure radiation, but now that he's Radiation/impact he can actually do something to corpus.  If DE catches this response to this post, take it into consideration.

I am also glad they removed her 4 and forget ability, yes she is more engaging right now, but I do feel like they could've done more to make her a true dps without making it a 4 and forget ability. I can't help here because I don't want to make suggestions, but she doesn't have a 'use' at the moment. Have you ever heard - besides for low level farming - anyone ask to bring Ember because she shines at something certain? 

[venon23]

16 minutes ago, Stoner said:

Her kit revolved around her World on Fire. They nerfed its range and energy consumption to an absurd level imo and she isn't very fun to play. I even tried making a build for her fireballs...

I'm calling it right now, she's the next Mag.

dude that says that cant play mag or ember

[Shockness]

3 minutes ago, Spectre-8 said:

Ember is perfectly fine , she's just a low tier warframe always was and always will be . You have other options just use them.

You're completely neglecting the fact that no warframe should just be a 'low level' warframe, each warframe should be good in high level content but with a different approach. This is not a game where warframes should be categorized in certain ranges of levels. Like I said, with that mentality everyone would be running the same warframe.

[Olianu]

1 minute ago, Shockness said:

I am also glad they removed her 4 and forget ability, yes she is more engaging right now, but I do feel like they could've done more to make her a true dps without making it a 4 and forget ability. I can't help here because I don't want to make suggestions, but she doesn't have a 'use' at the moment. Have you ever heard - besides for low level farming - anyone ask to bring Ember because she shines at something certain? 

That is a question I cannot fairly answer because I rarely look at and engage in recruiting.  Last I saw (over 2 years ago) it as all about the Trinity hype and people got mad when I brought any healer that was not EV Trinity.  I remember a group getting angry with me because I brought a survival Trinity instead of EV.

[Shockness]

Just now, Olianu said:

That is a question I cannot fairly answer because I rarely look at and engage in recruiting.  Last I saw (over 2 years ago) it as all about the Trinity hype and people got mad when I brought any healer that was not EV Trinity.  I remember a group getting angry with me because I brought a survival Trinity instead of EV.

Yes because Trinity together with harrow are one of the only energy replenishing warframes, where trinity's only use is giving energy or casting blessing. Your group wanted someone to give energy, and she is one of the only effective ones since harrow has other uses. But if a group needs a DPS, Ember will never be asked for.

[i_Lex]

15 minutes ago, Olianu said:

They tried to cover two birds with one stone and a lot of people don't like what happened, but I find her more engaging now that her Kit has had these tweaks come through.  While opinions will be polar to say the least; I, for one think that they actually did a good job, but overlooked a major glaring problem with the Resplendent Fire Chicken. (Yes, I call her that in game.)

I've mentioned this in another post, but I will mention it here as well.  Ember's problem isn't a lack of damage, I have used World on Fire and watched as the damage go up from around 500 to 1300 without accelrant on a balanced build.  The problem is fire as an element within the game.  It's only main goal is to deal heavy damage to flesh, which is great against about 60~70% of the infested.  Grineer? most of them are armored so it will resist the flames.  Corpus?  Again, good against flesh, but you have to work your way through the shields first and that can be quite the feat. (going by observations of what I've experienced in game.)

In order to make full use of her firey destruction you have to bring corrosive/magnetic weapons so that Grineer/Corpus can actually take the damage.  And I will repeat myself again, if anything, some of her abilities would be a lot more devestating if they had an additional proc hidden within Like what they did with Oberon.  He used to be exclusive to killing Grineer only as he was pure radiation, but now that he's Radiation/impact he can actually do something to corpus.  If DE catches this response to this post, take it into consideration.

The problem is, that early- to mid-late level in game the damage is alright. But her survivability plumbs like a brick during and after those levels.
Trying to do a high level sorties? Well you're in luck if it's grineer because you can then cc the crap out of them with max range accelerant. Corpus? Well rip you, because those nulifiers will negate your cc and snipe kill you within seconds. 

This problem would have been fixed if DE would have just immediately brought back overheat (warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Overheat).
I, for one, will only be pleased when Ember gets this ability. Meanwhile I'll just use max range for the most cc I can get out of her while also boosting the damage of my favo weapon -> aegis & Silva prime :p

 

PS -> this is what I think about Ember in her current state:  

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by i_Lex

[Shockness]

4 minutes ago, i_Lex said:

The problem is, that early- to mid-late level in game the damage is alright. But her survivability plumbs like a brick during and after those levels.
Trying to do a high level sorties? Well you're in luck if it's grineer because you can then cc the crap out of them with max range accelerant. Corpus? Well rip you, because those nulifiers will negate your cc and snipe kill you within seconds. 

This problem would have been fixed if DE would have just immediately brought back overheat (warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Overheat).
I, for one, will only be pleased when Ember gets this ability. Meanwhile I'll just use max range for the most cc I can get out of her while also boosting the damage of my favo weapon -> aegis & Silva prime :p

I do also think overheat would be a good addition to Ember so she has a degree of survivability in high levels.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Shockness

[Stoner]

9 minutes ago, VeNoN said:

dude that says that cant play mag or ember

Uh? 
 

Spoiler

I play Mag all the time. By that I meant she's going to be the next frame people will constantly ask for buffs. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

11 minutes ago, Shockness said:

You're completely neglecting the fact that no warframe should just be a 'low level' warframe, each warframe should be good in high level content but with a different approach

Why? there are so many to choose from... like weapons.. some for fun and some for fighting. Not every frame has to be good in high level content - which is a moving target anyway as i'm sure our definitions of high level are very different.

 

[AcceptYourDeath]

Well if there is one niche corner left for Ember it is Infested I guess? It always was her prime role more or less, it`s just unfortunate we don`t really care for Infested. 

[i_Lex]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Why? there are so many to choose from... like weapons.. some for fun and some for fighting. Not every frame has to be good in high level content - which is a moving target anyway as i'm sure our definitions of high level are very different.

 

Weapons are mr-bounded, some are suppose to be better than others so that building better weapons feels like progression. Warframe however are not mastery rank-bounded and are suppose to be useable in all situations, some better than others in unique situations. However, Ember in this case is really bad in high level, if she were to add anything but cc to a team like a massive damage boost (banshee's sonar) then this would not even be discussed. But Ember does not bring anything but some cc to the game, which is not enough for her survivability in high level.