What role does Ember fullfill?

[Spectre-8]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

That's a very poor outlook in things. It's also very untrue. 

 

Factories that make cheese, get whey as a bioroduct. Normally they'd dispose of it, as waste. However whey is high in protein, so nutritional companies purchase this "waste bioroduct" for cheap, to make protein powders with a higher concentration of protein. 

-the cheese company gets their waste taken care of, for them... And they get paid for it too

-protein manufacturing companies get an improved product, that they highly profit from

-athletes get a better source of high protein for low carbs/fat

 

In the above scenario, all parties involved *win* from the outcome. 

You should re-evaluate your perspective, and approach/attitude to "win/lose" situations. Someone doesn't have to lose, for someone else (or you) to win. (Although I'm not speaking about competitive sports here)

 

No you should re-evaluate yours , how about that ?

[Maka.Bones]

4 minutes ago, Spectre-8 said:

 

No you should re-evaluate yours , how about that ?

Provide me a solid argument, and reason for that. A situation & evidence that contradicts the argument I've just made. 

 

I gave you a real-life situation & example where everyone wins. If you can show me why I'm wrong, then I will. Otherwise, I really do recommend/ask that you think about what I've said. You're not making me feel worse, or better, or making yourself look badass, or more powerful or right, just by saying "no u". I'm actually/genuinely trying to give you some good advice.

[Spectre-8]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Provide me a solid argument, and reason for that. A situation & evidence that contradicts the argument I've just made. 

 

I gave you a real-life situation & example where everyone wins. If you can show me why I'm wrong, then I will. Otherwise, I really do recommend/ask that you think about what I've said. You're not making me feel worse, or better, or making yourself look badass, or more powerful or right, just by saying "no u". I'm actually/genuinely trying to give you some good advice.

If everyone is a winner , noone is .

If every warframe can do what the next warframe can do why even have more than 1 warframe in the game ?

Not taking advices from some random on the forums .

[Maka.Bones]

 

On 2/14/2018 at 3:45 AM, Spectre-8 said:

If everyone is a winner , noone is .

If every warframe can do what the next warframe can do why even have more than 1 warframe in the game ?

Not taking advices from some random on the forums .

That's why each warframe has different abilities, and different ways they synergize. They also have different themes, and playstyles. They can all be different, yet equally Excell at the game & what they do. So to answer your question, because you'd personally find one more fun than the other.... Simply because you like it. The same way we like one color more than another, or one flavor more than another, we also simply like one theme/look/Playstyle more than the rest. That has nothing to do with how effective it is at end-game.

 

What you're arguing however, does. Because if there had to be a loser, for someone to be a winner, then could only be one true winner... So based on your argument, there should only be one good Warframe for endgame/lvl 100+ content. Which would mean everyone uses the same *one* Warframe. Your argument, would actually cause the thing you don't want. 

 

Yes each warframe can Excell at different things, of course. However, what's a cutting knife to you;  in the hands of another person, can be a tool for creating beautiful wooden sculptures. 

In other words *because people are different, and like different things* that's why both you, and I can win. By both getting what we both enjoy, while not needing to keep the other from progressing to what they want

Edited February 15, 2018 by NovusNova
Removed unneeded comments

[Terrornaut]

12 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Provide me a solid argument, and reason for that. A situation & evidence that contradicts the argument I've just made. 

 

I gave you a real-life situation & example where everyone wins. If you can show me why I'm wrong, then I will. Otherwise, I really do recommend/ask that you think about what I've said. You're not making me feel worse, or better, or making yourself look badass, or more powerful or right, just by saying "no u". I'm actually/genuinely trying to give you some good advice.

His 'I know you are but what am I?' sure made me laugh though.

Appreciated the comparison just for the reminder of where whey comes from.

And yes, why so few people mention that Gara is basically old+New Ember on Steroids I'll never get. Its almost 1:1 and its hilarious this somehow passes. ability 1- deal damage and quick cc a mob. Gara deals stacking damage scaling off wep at a much much greater damage for a very short range. Overheat vs gara storm shield thing...it IS overheat that scales offensively AND can be given to allies. Ability 3..Carousel Mirrors is an expandable ring that locks enemies in place if they touch it and they do tiny damage to themselves vs an expandable ring that locks enemies in place and does damage. Ability 4, deal great damage and lock a few enemies down at a time. One outright disables an enemy for no damage, another disables and damages 5 at a time. The one that outright disables scales her other abilities in damage and survivability and energy pool(refresh) potentially more than accelerant buffs gun and melee damage with many builds.

But lel guiz her theme is glass strong and lethal she's like not supposed to just do damage to light armor meaniepoopoos.

Slightly different from each other but basically the same. I'm not even asking for overheat back, just something that makes fireblast worthwhile (scale its damage bonus with strength and don't let it stack) and basically anything that isn't current wof (or kill the energy drain. Fire burns hotter at the core, you're consolidating fire not fueling it. I know logic != gameplay but still.

 

And again, fireball needs its charge to be much faster or to scale with the time it takes to charge, even if its like 4x for 2x the cost for its current charge. Otherwise theres no reason to just cast two instantly in slightly different areas for more coverage.

[Valgaarv]

Il y a 5 heures, BansheePrime a dit :

Light CC, Passive damage and CC aura. Damage buff, damage vulnerability and cast buff with flash accelerant. People who sacrifice her power strength for range just to fire quake make my die inside almost as much as people who loved resonating quake and at the same time never ever... EVER used sonar. Also that one dude whos name I forget who said Banshee is only good for low levels.

Light CC = mediocre, her passive damage it´s still low because of armor, nobody goes for those elemental buff auguments because are bad builds (unless you want to summon Captain Lato meme), flash accelerant is her best ability but is far enougth to keep her alive in high level missions. There are a los of warframes that can do 2 tasks well or one task but OP, Nidus can CC, tank and do dps, mag can CC and strip armor (yes she can strip 100% of all lv 145 bombard inside her aoe), Loki can CC and be inmortal because he is invisible, Atlas can tank and deal dps, oberon can cc and heal, but Ember? what she can do now? now she may be better for early game but is far worst in a lv 80+ mission and that is what we are discussing, end game.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

A weaker version of a maxed out Madurai operator with all waybounds.

That's her role😂

[Tellakey]

6 hours ago, Shockness said:

But should DE really limit a warframe to lower levels? In my opinion every warframe should be en game viable with maxed mods and gear.

Exactly. That's why I roll my eyes whenever people reiterate just how "awesome Ember was before the nerf". It seems to me as if she always had been very mediocre.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Tellakey

[Vafthrudnir]

13 hours ago, Shockness said:

Accelerants stun is like 2 seconds long, World on fire's range is so little that CC can't be taking into consideration.

You got an augment for 3 that has 100% chance to panic enemies.

[Recel]

59 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

You got an augment for 3 that has 100% chance to panic enemies.

Which being on its tiny ring of fire that the enemy AI avoids anyway.

[Vafthrudnir]

2 hours ago, Recel said:

Which being on its tiny ring of fire that the enemy AI avoids anyway.

Cast more rings, and if you stand inside it the AI can't avoid it.

Edited February 14, 2018 by giovanniluca

[Shockness]

14 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

@Shockness i completely get what you mean, and where you're coming from. Thank you for pretty much voicing my exact concerns/thoughts in a much more eloquent, and understandable way. 

I agree with absolutely everything you've said so far. You've said it in much better words than I could, so this is all I'll say lol. 

Thanks again lol

You're welcome :P

[i_Lex]

34 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

Cast more rings, and if you stand inside it the AI can't avoid it.

This just sounds like: "Blow yourself up so the enemies can't kill you." Or "Napalm the whole map so the enemies can't avoid getting damaged."

If I must cast more rings so the enemy AI can't avoid it just to make a single augment work, I'd rather just ditch the augment and frame, and use a frame that can actually cc alot of enemies at ones like a (resonating quake) banshee.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by i_Lex

[Shockness]

7 minutes ago, i_Lex said:

This just sounds like: "Blow yourself up so the enemies can't kill you." Or "Napalm the whole map so the enemies can't avoid getting damaged."

If I must cast more rings so the enemy AI can't avoid it just to make a single augment work, I'd rather just ditch the augment and frame, and use a frame that can actually cc alot of enemies at ones like a (resonating quake) banshee.

 

 

Exactly and if this is the case it means said warframe is poorly designed and needs a change

[GenericPotato]

Ember is a frame that is only good for low level killing and not good anymore for endgame. Heck, even Mag and Oberon outclass her now. Ember used to be a very good team buffer and overal range CCer. Most mains didnt use Ember as a damage frame at high levels, thats what weapons are for.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

17 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

when they added the expanding wall of fire to fire blast, it made me feel more like an eximus. I enjoyed that. All of her other abilities sets enemies on fire too. 

I'm liking staying in the middle of fire blast for as long as I can to use the damage buff. Someone's the enemies are still getting up from the blast itself, so you get a few shots in. 

Like I said, it's not the easiest to use damage buff, but to me it's fun to use it effectively and get out of Dodge. It's finally given me a reason to stay inside the circle as long as I can. 

You sir, should see my post.

Now, Fire Blast. It will be great if bullets shot through the firey wall have less effectiveness. Better yet, let Fire Blast be her domain. If she stays in it, she will get a hefty damage reduction, bullets will almost never hit her and melee enemies or any enemy who enters, will constantly be procced with a constant fire DoT that will cause them to remain less active as long as they stay inside or until the duration ends. If Fireball is used in this area, it will increase the DoT of Fire Blast. Also, boost the range on Fire Blast so it can be more like her Reality Marble (shameless Fate/Stay reference). Also, if you're inside Fire Blast and use Accelerant, it will give you 5 maybe 10 energy for every enemy inside, with the DoT of the fire status converting into said energy, overall, increasing the longevity of her energy pool since we've upped the spammy nature of her abilities.

I actually don't know how to post other posts in post (if that makes any sense) So i just copy pasted my suggestion instead :p

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Edited February 14, 2018 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[robbybe01234]

13 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

His 'I know you are but what am I?' sure made me laugh though.

Appreciated the comparison just for the reminder of where whey comes from.

And yes, why so few people mention that Gara is basically old+New Ember on Steroids I'll never get. Its almost 1:1 and its hilarious this somehow passes. ability 1- deal damage and quick cc a mob. Gara deals stacking damage scaling off wep at a much much greater damage for a very short range. Overheat vs gara storm shield thing...it IS overheat that scales offensively AND can be given to allies. Ability 3..Carousel Mirrors is an expandable ring that locks enemies in place if they touch it and they do tiny damage to themselves vs an expandable ring that locks enemies in place and does damage. Ability 4, deal great damage and lock a few enemies down at a time. One outright disables an enemy for no damage, another disables and damages 5 at a time. The one that outright disables scales her other abilities in damage and survivability and energy pool(refresh) potentially more than accelerant buffs gun and melee damage with many builds.

But lel guiz her theme is glass strong and lethal she's like not supposed to just do damage to light armor meaniepoopoos.

Slightly different from each other but basically the same. I'm not even asking for overheat back, just something that makes fireblast worthwhile (scale its damage bonus with strength and don't let it stack) and basically anything that isn't current wof (or kill the energy drain. Fire burns hotter at the core, you're consolidating fire not fueling it. I know logic != gameplay but still.

 

And again, fireball needs its charge to be much faster or to scale with the time it takes to charge, even if its like 4x for 2x the cost for its current charge. Otherwise theres no reason to just cast two instantly in slightly different areas for more coverage.

Haha, Yes!

Now that WoF has range decay and you're no longer able to maintain damage consistently at its original border,  it is more comparable shatterstorm.  

I look at it like this.  Shatterstom is a far higher damaging WoF that doesn't drain energy and also gives overheat.  At 100% range and after decay, WoF has about the same reach as shatterstorm.  It's pretty funny now that I think about it.  Gara ring even gives more potent and longer lasting cc than embers ring. 

Jeez.... gara can easily be a better ember. Flash augment aside, gara just eats her lunch. Something to think about haha.

 

[Harbinger81]

 I have to say the only problem I have with Ember right now is that to truly get her to be efficient with energy you need to add two duration mods. Getting range or power then becomes the issue and to balance the three efficiency/power/range really doesn't work with the current mods available. I currently have 2 embers for this reason, one for a power efficiency build and another for a power range build. I would like to see a new corrupted mod that added efficiency with the minus being power strength. I think this would allow a build fitting the current changes and add some interesting options for other frames as well. The current efficiency mod Fleeting Expertise  causes the energy draw of WoF to be too high and you need to add Primed Continuity and Constitution to counter that one negative...

So DE can we get a new corrupted mod that is efficiency with minus power strength? Pretty please?  We could call it Enfeebled Virtue. Comments?

[lexandritte]

18 hours ago, TKDancer said:

 

 

how is peace maker clunky?

 

also that argument falls apart when u add frames like octavia to the picture, or even gara as her splinter storm is currently a better WoF as despite having a low range it gives massive DR and increasing dmg

Shoots only in line of sight and only stationary, discounting activating it mid jump. 

I love Mesa and I love peacemaker, but it's just overkill on star chart, and you constantly have to stop and start again, movement wise.

 

[TKDancer]

On 2/14/2018 at 7:45 PM, lexandritte said:

Shoots only in line of sight and only stationary, discounting activating it mid jump. 

I love Mesa and I love peacemaker, but it's just overkill on star chart, and you constantly have to stop and start again, movement wise.

 

the start has a huge reticule and its dmg is enough at low level to one shot most mobs inside that huge reticle, plus the start/end animations are super fast, can see it being clunky(tho i would appreciate the movement from that conclave augment)

[TKDancer]

On 2/13/2018 at 9:59 PM, polarity said:

She's a glass-cannon, best used for focusing on hard targets

literally what are u on about

 

how do u look at a frame with extremely limited dmg output that has no way of scaling and think "glass cannon"

 

she doesnt even have a way to deal with armor

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Ember is in interesting. She can passively do loads of damage. The only real problem is enemy protection such as armor. Heat is simply just weak to all forms of armor and maybe even shields. It doesn’t scale well enough and she lacks any sustainable CC. Since her WoF is sorta RNG, I feel she need more. She needs to have more consistency and that pretty much holds her back. If her fire burst more often, there wouldn’t be much of a problem with her CC and would favor lower range so that the CC becomes more consistent.