DatDarkOne Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 15 hours ago, Baklavah said: So... all of 8 people abused Ivara... I have never seen 4-man Ivara squads go farming. You're better off using Hydroid/Nekros/Smeeta Kavaat combinations. You'd get more out of it and for less tedious efforts. The whole "Ivara Abuse" thing makes no sense as no one uses it. I agree that the "Ivara Abuse" thing doesn't make sense for the exact reasons you mentioned. 13 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said: To see a 4-man Ivara farm would mean you need to be one of the Ivara farming wouldn't it? You wouldn't come across that randomly. It was a niche thing for farming generally mods or things from particularly rare enemies. I doubt they were used for mass resource gathering. It was a big thing for farming stance mods (like from maniacs/bombards/sentients) or things that weren't affected by Desecrate (at the time) especially right after they nerfed Hydroid Pilfering from being affected by power strength for like 3-4x drops per kill (they had to update the loot limit on the ground because of that mod). More recently I think it was focused on the special rare mods from PoE assassination targets. Did they need to change Prowl's looting? Probably not. Do I think they were trying to stay ahead of something (more than just sentient cores)? Probably. This is another post that I agree with. Especially the last part. Now as a player who uses Ivara a lot in both groups and mostly solo, this change doesn't effect me at all. Why, because I don't use Ivara specifically as a loot farm. I can honestly say as an Ivara main that I don't consider this a nerf at all. The change to Arca Plasmor and Navigator was a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UjaAca Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 11 hours ago, AzureTerra said: its not exactly a major change that needs to be a headline in a hotfix I don't agree, because if you read hotfix comments, there are 1/3 talking about Ivara nerf. Then they mask it with the next hotfix. And it is not a major change if you haven't done 4xIvara squad. Just like it's not a major change that Trials will be shut down, if you haven't done Trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumald Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:35 AM, kgabor said: Lol, forgot people on the forums talk a lot about things they have no idea of, Hydroid-s Pilfering Swarm is a one time Loot increase (also needs to kill the target for drops)so is Nekros while Nekros-s Desecrate is subpar compared to Prowl and Pilf S. with its 55% added drop chance. These two stack with each other but not with other Nekros Desecrate-s and Hydro Swarms. Ivara had no such limitations until now. /thread It was literally just one extra pull from the loot table with an all Ivara squad. 4 Ivaras pull 4 times +once on enemy death, for a total of 5. 1 Ivara pulls once, Hydroid with Pilfering swarm pulls twice on enemy death, and 1 Nekros pulls once with desecrate, removing the corpse, for 4 times total in a mixed party... But Ivara isn't really effective in that setup, because both Nekros and Hydroid need to wait out her pickpocket if they want to maximize drop chances. Their stated intention was to make her welcome in farming squads: Quote we hope Ivara will now be welcomed equivalently. and the flat Nerf with no mechanical changes doesn't do that. The point of the thread is to discuss solutions, not gripe about the imposed limitations... you are free to gripe, I mean; I did, but that's not really the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)purpleskullgamin Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 If anything her the prowl looting needed a buff, so we can loot from more than one enemy at a time based on power strength and having it cap at 3 without any extra power strength it did not need this nerf in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, (PS4)purpleskullgamin said: If anything her the prowl looting needed a buff, so we can loot from more than one enemy at a time based on power strength and having it cap at 3 without any extra power strength it did not need this nerf in the slightest. You do know that Prowl's steal chance is already effected by Power Strength, right? Anything under 100% PS isn't guaranteed. Just putting this info out there for those others reading that might not have known this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Boomstickman98 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: You do know that Prowl's steal chance is already effected by Power Strength, right? Anything under 100% PS isn't guaranteed. Just putting this info out there for those others reading that might not have known this. While you do say that Dark, this change just does not feel warranted in the slightest. Surely DE knew that how pickpocket worked was fundamentally different from the Desecrate of Nekros, right? This was the only way that Ivara could ever compare with Nekros in terms of looting, and they nerfed that too! I wonder if DE are knowingly just further reinforcing the meta... Hopefully they can figure out a way for it to be useful again if they refuse to revert the change. I actually love having the diverse methods of farming for items! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I'd be fine with this if they also made Prowl less of an absolute chore to use to compensate. Four ways to drain energy, forbidden parkour, slowed speed, direct antisynergy with any nonsilenced weapon and a channeling drain to preclude energy regen effects all at once is awful. Just for that last note alone, consider that a Loki can literally keep Invisibility up indefinitely with the energy regen from Energy Siphon alone if built to do so. I have a 246% duration/175% efficiency build that requires 13 energy per 29.5 seconds; 0.6 energy/s from Siphon multiplied by 29.5 = 17.7 energy gained. No extra costs for moving, getting hit or using melee. No exposure when shooting unsilenced weapons, and an actual useful augment to silence those weapons if need be to avoid attracting attention. Prowl is terribly overburdened and deserves improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said: While you do say that Dark, this change just does not feel warranted in the slightest. Surely DE knew that how pickpocket worked was fundamentally different from the Desecrate of Nekros, right? This was the only way that Ivara could ever compare with Nekros in terms of looting, and they nerfed that too! I wonder if DE are knowingly just further reinforcing the meta... Hopefully they can figure out a way for it to be useful again if they refuse to revert the change. I actually love having the diverse methods of farming for items! Funny thing is that this change doesn't bother me in the slightest. That could be because I don't use Ivara just to farm. I use her for EVERYTHING. While I do understand the gripe, it just really doesn't change how I play Ivara. Edited February 18, 2018 by DatDarkOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Boomstickman98 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, DatDarkOne said: Funny thing is that this change doesn't bother me in the slightest. That could be because I don't use Ivara just to farm. While I do understand the gripe, it just really doesn't change how I play Ivara. Nor will it change mine to be fair. I just want the option to have more ways to do things when it comes down to it, as using the same frames and mechanics just gets extremely boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)purpleskullgamin Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: You do know that Prowl's steal chance is already effected by Power Strength, right? Anything under 100% PS isn't guaranteed. Just putting this info out there for those others reading that might not have known this. I'm aware of that, I was we should be able to steal from more than 1target at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, (PS4)purpleskullgamin said: I'm aware of that, I was we should be able to steal from more than 1target at a time. I did a test for a friend just to see if Prowl would still steal while in Operator mode. It showed me two things. That it works and that it was stealing quite quickly from multiple enemies. Even with my 95% duration build that makes stealing a little bit longer than normal. So I can honestly say that stealing from multiple enemies isn't really that long at all. That is if you have the patience to not kill enemies for farming anyway. Otherwise just build for more duration to speed it up. Edited February 18, 2018 by DatDarkOne dang spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Boomstickman98 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said: I did a test for a friend just to see if Prowl would still steal while in Operator mode. It should me two things. That it works and that it was stealing quite quickly from multiple enemies. Even with my 95% duration build that makes stealing a little bit longer than normal. So I can honestly say that stealing from multiple enemies isn't really that long at all. That is if you have the patience to not kill enemies for farming anyway. Otherwise just build for more duration to speed it up. Now that part I did not know, XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 39 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: I did a test for a friend just to see if Prowl would still steal while in Operator mode. It showed me two things. That it works and that it was stealing quite quickly from multiple enemies. Even with my 95% duration build that makes stealing a little bit longer than normal. So I can honestly say that stealing from multiple enemies isn't really that long at all. That is if you have the patience to not kill enemies for farming anyway. Otherwise just build for more duration to speed it up. Duration Ivara + Void Singularity Operator, new meta! ..Now if only it didn't require having the damage pulses from Void Static to access Singularity, we'd be golden. :v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said: Duration Ivara + Void Singularity Operator, new meta! ..Now if only it didn't require having the damage pulses from Void Static to access Singularity, we'd be golden. :v Haha, nice. Got a answer for that problem also. Noise Arrow my fellow Tenno. Gathers enemies in a nice tight little area for ease of stealing and merc'ing. hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousPixie Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I don’t mind the change from an item farming perspective. What I am concerned about is the ability of multiple Ivara’s to play together while in Prowl. The steal mechanic was used to get extra energy and ammo so you continue killing while in prowl, but now with more than one that would be very hard if you’re roughly in the same area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTitan123 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 10:53 PM, Rhumald said: I am sitting in a mission with two Hydroids and a Nekros right now. An Ivara would not make this farm any better. I feel that pain. That is a very, very, bad pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TertulSee Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 8:45 PM, kgabor said: Well yeah, Ivara is not really meant to be a spammy lootframe though an energy drain increase wouldn't make much sense. The whole looting thing is more of a detriment to the frame than anything most of the time to begin with because of the energy drain and it's rather just annoying when you randomly loot enemies you get close to. I thought most of the community forget this ability exists due to Range Ivara not favoring this playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said: I thought most of the community forget this ability exists due to Range Ivara not favoring this playstyle. There's quite a bit of misinformation out there regarding Ivara. So it's not really that hard to imagine that most don't realize she even has the ability until the changes in the Update notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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