Arcane drops from eidolon should have limits/day

[Shifty_Shuffler]

14 hours ago, DeathshotSE said:

 Once players get a full set of whatever arcane they want, they will lose the incentive to farm Eidolons for arcanes anymore.

Focus. Until the introduction of arcane drops the only reason to farming Eidolons is Focus. If anything this has given players much more reason to farm Eidolons for longer, and it will take a while for people to get full sets, let alone multiple full sets. 

Don't forget we are getting Venus open world soonish too, so players focus will be spread across the 2 open world maps. And Dark Sectors too. Eidolon hunting will be around for a long time yet.

[Cloud]

Absolutely not. I declare arcanes free to be farmed to death.

[DeathshotSE]

4 hours ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

Focus. Until the introduction of arcane drops the only reason to farming Eidolons is Focus. If anything this has given players much more reason to farm Eidolons for longer, and it will take a while for people to get full sets, let alone multiple full sets. 

Don't forget we are getting Venus open world soonish too, so players focus will be spread across the 2 open world maps. And Dark Sectors too. Eidolon hunting will be around for a long time yet.

Well, there are roughly 2 groups of people regarding Eidolon hunting. Those that need the focus (most players), and those that don't need the focus (some players). Since most players are already farming Eidolons for focus, what is the reason to put arcanes there also? Is it so that the "don't need focus" players will come back to farm? That is not a lot of people. Is it to spread more arcanes throughout the playerbase since lots of people are farming Eidolons anyways? If this is the case, arcanes weren't placed as an incentive, rather it was a bonus to Eidolon hunting.

Since it takes a lot of Focus to max out all schools if people are going for that. I would assume players would get all arcanes before they max out the focus. Arcanes aren't necessarily prolonging the Eidolon farming any longer than Focus already is.

Edited February 17, 2018 by DeathshotSE

[Shifty_Shuffler]

4 minutes ago, DeathshotSE said:

 what is the reason to put arcanes there also?

I think DE want arcanes to be more widely used, I believe that was their original intention, but raids weren't as successful as they hoped they would be. It's still going to be a heck a of a grind to get 1 or more full sets of the good rare arcanes. Not everyone can play for 8+ hours a day.

[DeathshotSE]

7 minutes ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

I think DE want arcanes to be more widely used, I believe that was their original intention, but raids weren't as successful as they hoped they would be. It's still going to be a heck a of a grind to get 1 or more full sets of the good rare arcanes. Not everyone can play for 8+ hours a day.

That is true assuming the normal working person can play maybe 1-3 hours a way. That will only let you get in 1-2 night cycles per day which gives about the same number as raids previously did.

I remember DE saying arcanes were meant as an "end-game" (super vague) item when they were first introduced which is why they placed it behind "challenging" raids. I'm not sure if Eidolons can constitute end-game (for me), but I don't know the general playerbase experience with hunting Eidolons. I would assume most decent-at-games players can always get 1 Hydroylst cap each night. If this is the case, doesn't feel right that end-game is so farm-able. I guess we'll have to see several months later.

Regardless of whether arcane drops change, I'm still betting in a few months some good arcanes will be nerfed to the ground, or new arcanes will be added when Venus open world arrives.

Edited February 17, 2018 by DeathshotSE

[Xebov]

22 hours ago, DeathshotSE said:

To those who cheer for 100% arcane drops who don't have any because they were too lazy or did not want to do raids, I say you are full of yourself and want everything given to you. Rewards like arcanes should only be given to those who work for it.

To lazy, not enough friends to form a group, noone among the friends able to host it, simply not finding it enjoyable. There are alot of reasons why ppl didnt do it and they have been discussed in the raid thread. Arcanes are a part of the game and the balance. Like it or not, but as such they should be available to everyone. The main reason why some ppl are as angry as you are is that a small part of the community had good plat incomes from them and this market now changes drasticly.

 

DE should generally do more to prevent inflating markets around parts of the game.

[DeathshotSE]

5 hours ago, Xebov said:

To lazy, not enough friends to form a group, noone among the friends able to host it, simply not finding it enjoyable. There are alot of reasons why ppl didnt do it and they have been discussed in the raid thread. Arcanes are a part of the game and the balance. Like it or not, but as such they should be available to everyone. The main reason why some ppl are as angry as you are is that a small part of the community had good plat incomes from them and this market now changes drasticly.

 

DE should generally do more to prevent inflating markets around parts of the game.

Just so you know, I have never sold any of my arcanes. I do not use arcanes to make plat. I want arcanes to stay "special". With how frequently it will drop for those farming Eidolons, arcanes will become just another mod in your build. After a few months when many people are running around with double arcane anything (worst case energize), DE will nerf it to the ground because arcanes make us too strong. 

As for the market, I only care that the great arcanes prices don't go too low as to not give it to those that do not deserve it. Honestly, I would like arcanes to be untradeable, but I don't know how that will affect the playerbase. That way, you get arcanes if you worked for it, not pay for it.

[Xebov]

8 hours ago, DeathshotSE said:

Just so you know, I have never sold any of my arcanes. I do not use arcanes to make plat. I want arcanes to stay "special". With how frequently it will drop for those farming Eidolons, arcanes will become just another mod in your build. After a few months when many people are running around with double arcane anything (worst case energize), DE will nerf it to the ground because arcanes make us too strong.

Arcanes are just another part of a build. If DE nerfs some Arcanes because they notice that they are to strong then they where to strong all along. If DE wants to balance the game in a long run all players need to have a accessible way to get them so they can use them.

 

8 hours ago, DeathshotSE said:

As for the market, I only care that the great arcanes prices don't go too low as to not give it to those that do not deserve it.

In this case deserving it equals a big wallet.

 

8 hours ago, DeathshotSE said:

Honestly, I would like arcanes to be untradeable, but I don't know how that will affect the playerbase. That way, you get arcanes if you worked for it, not pay for it.

Im happy that most things in the game are tradable. Its part of the game to exchange goods between players. Its a requirement in a game that is build on chances.

[(PSN)thekarlone]

Arcanes are no longer an overpriced elite item. Get over it.

[Zilotz]

On 2/18/2018 at 6:15 AM, DeathshotSE said:

DE will nerf it to the ground because arcanes make us too strong. 

Really? When did you see arcane stats last time? 

They are just small add, not a way to make much more powerful.

Like.... Arcane guardian? Arcane pulse? Arcane energize? 

Guardian is less effective now as for squishy frames "you are dead before buff appears" and for tanky now it gives less. 

Pulse? Very random with low chance, only for frames that spawn hp spheres.

Energize? 40% chance to restore additional energy that will be often wasted if you don't have primed flow. Also no way having energy can make us too powerful or DE would remove energy pizzas long ago 

[Sorise]

On 2/16/2018 at 6:34 PM, WolfTitan said:

It's not entirely about the value of arcanes that were destroyed. It's about the effort needed to obtain the arcane. Players who have done a few Eidolon runs can easily get 9 arcanes per night. Raids take time to learn and complete, and you could only get up to 3 per day.

So the ones who support an arcane flood in the market are the lazy ones who can't take the time to learn and team up with others to earn arcanes.

Once you learn, it's simple, at least LoR is and it becomes a long chore. Players had to learn the Eidolons as well, although not as long.

First they would have to find people to team up w/ and it sounds like they were unable to looking at trials stats the devs showed. It's not like they said it was too hard, or did they?

Or were their main complaints were mostly lack of people? That makes sense.

On 2/16/2018 at 6:26 PM, DeMonkey said:

If you could only get 1 per Eidolon per day it would be slower to grind Arcanes than old Trials.

E.g. Arcane Grace had a 14.3% chance to drop from Nightmare Lor, it has a ~5% chance to drop when capturing the Hydrolyst, and Hydrolyst only.

Arcane Energise had a 10% chance to drop from JV, it has the same ~5% chance to drop from capturing the Gauntalyst, again, only the Gauntalyst. 

The Arcane market could do with a reduction in price anyway, but it's not like these top end Arcanes are going to be dropping from the sky.

(Given the above comment, I feel like I need to state that I currently have 2 sets of Arcane Grace, one of which I purchased within the past week. I stand by everything I said).

Considering that folks would want multiple sets of these and how long it would take(one guy said 300 days for one set of energize...insane), it's only fair. VERY Inconvenient(unless work exactly like mods). to be stuck w/ one set across a lot of cosmetics. A pain in the ass.

On 2/16/2018 at 7:02 PM, DeathshotSE said:

I just don't see their vision when putting that 100% drop chance for arcanes even with their drop tables being weighed appropriately for rare arcanes. Once players get a full set of whatever arcane they want, they will lose the incentive to farm Eidolons for arcanes anymore. If the drop chance was say 50%, they would effectively double the longevity of Eidolons. Yes, that would on average double the player's time required to farm the arcane set, but is that necessarily bad for the game? Arcanes and the ideal Rivens were the only functional end-game that I saw (functional as in it made you better or stronger, etc.).

It'll be many months before that happens due to multiple sets of 10 required for convenience of not having to uninstall them for each other frame you want them on. Very obnoxious(not to mention installing all 10 again...oh boy).

On 2/16/2018 at 7:26 PM, Radagosh said:

I agree with OP in the sense that before, having Arcanes meant putting effort in. It took me 300 JVs to get my 2 Energize sets, that's 300 consecutive days of playing a raid. Now, while it is limited by the dropchance of 5%, I doubt it will take anyone 300 days to acquire two energize sets.

But I can see the bright side as well, after doing 300 Lors I've gotten 7 Arcane Avengers, earlier today I got my 8th one from the second Hydralist I've beaten.

Seems kinda selfish to want others to suffer as much as you...

300 days later and not even enough Arcanes sets to alleviate the pain of having to install/uninstall on the many cosmetics whenever someone changes a frame.

 

On 2/17/2018 at 2:56 PM, DeathshotSE said:

That is true assuming the normal working person can play maybe 1-3 hours a way. That will only let you get in 1-2 night cycles per day which gives about the same number as raids previously did.

I remember DE saying arcanes were meant as an "end-game" (super vague) item when they were first introduced which is why they placed it behind "challenging" raids. I'm not sure if Eidolons can constitute end-game (for me), but I don't know the general playerbase experience with hunting Eidolons. I would assume most decent-at-games players can always get 1 Hydroylst cap each night. If this is the case, doesn't feel right that end-game is so farm-able. I guess we'll have to see several months later.

Regardless of whether arcane drops change, I'm still betting in a few months some good arcanes will be nerfed to the ground, or new arcanes will be added when Venus open world arrives.

Arcanes never felt endgame, they felt more like different ways to modify your build and not jus make them more powerful.

rivens however feel like endgame and their power is extraordinary as shown by the 1000s of plats spent on jus 1.

Rivens give insane power far greater than Arcanes w/o the need to actibvate them during battle. Now that sounds like endgame.

On 2/17/2018 at 10:15 PM, DeathshotSE said:

Just so you know, I have never sold any of my arcanes. I do not use arcanes to make plat. I want arcanes to stay "special". With how frequently it will drop for those farming Eidolons, arcanes will become just another mod in your build. After a few months when many people are running around with double arcane anything (worst case energize), DE will nerf it to the ground because arcanes make us too strong. 

As for the market, I only care that the great arcanes prices don't go too low as to not give it to those that do not deserve it. Honestly, I would like arcanes to be untradeable, but I don't know how that will affect the playerbase. That way, you get arcanes if you worked for it, not pay for it.

Arcanes didn't feel all that special. If there were, the trials would still be very much active.

Imagine if Rivens were trials only.

[Ham_Grenabe]

Hm. So I never did the raids, and I have little opinion on that whole matter except that it seems weird to remove them rather than say "this is unstable and could break all your S#&$ if you do it. Enter at your own risk." With regard to the plunging arcane prices, which I sense is a larger issue than the time/effort people sunk into running the raids, I guess the best you can say is that DE intentionally burst the bubble on that. 

However, looking at what Arcanes do, aside from 2 or 3 of them (the ones that were going for like $200 per set in trade) most of them do not strike me as "raid quality" rewards. Benefits like 8% chance for a 10% chance to do X? Stuff like that is essentially fun perks, about the equivalent of the weapon perks in Destiny (e.g., "kills with this weapon briefly improve sprint speed," or "kills with this weapon increase reload speed for a short time"). Those are not things that are worthy of a one-per-day limitation. 

So for the easily farmed Eidolons, you're mostly getting stuff that's funky but not overwhelmingly interesting. For the harder-to-farm Eidolons, most teams will be limited to what, 9 triple-caps a day? Good teams will do better, but there's an upper limit to how many triple-caps you can do per night cycle. And the teams who can do crazy stuff like cap the Teralyst-Gantulyst-Hyrdolyst 3 times each every night...well, they're probably the same crews that have been running the raids forever. 

[Radagosh]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Sorise:

Seems kinda selfish to want others to suffer as much as you...

300 days later and not even enough Arcanes sets to alleviate the pain of having to install/uninstall on the many cosmetics whenever someone changes a frame.

I think you misunderstood, with this, I didn't want to say that you'd need to go hunt 300 or more Hydralists I wanted to put the stress on the daily effort it took some of us to get our arcane sets. The price of Energize dropped from 500 to 150 in just 4 days. I feel like this indicates the need of a daily cap, as the availability will only increase in the weeks to come and will result in a meta which then will result in DE nerfing stuff that wasn't broken because it was "endgame" content that was hard to get before. I've now done like 60 or so Hydralists now and I can say it is boring. Even after 300 JVs I still like running them, probably mainly because I can't burn myself out by overdoing them.

While I think fighting the Hydralist itself is really fun I hate being forced to go through the Terralist and especially the cancer show that is the Gigantulist. At least I can evade the Hydralist's attacks but the lasershow is just eww. And in the most efficient groups it's just too methodic for me to enjoy, the hardest part there is filling the first lure. There are also other things I dislike, for example the strict meta, which results from the 50minutes time cap and of course the 4 man squad that will never be the same as an 8 man squad. Another thing I hate is the inavailability of Eidolons. Say I want to hunt, because it's the only content that's worth doing to me. Well, if it's not night I can't play.

The last thing I want to touch is the matchmaking, first of, thank you DE for introducing these bounty options. Now on to the complaining. You know a system is S#&$ when you get matched with a mr8 Inaros without any aura in a 3 Eidolon bounty. Yeah I know, a bit hypocritical of me to complain about someone going for a non-meta frame when I cried about said meta earlier on. However, I have 50 minutes to capture as many as possible I don't care about being a meta-slave and wearing myself out. Anywho back to the topic. I understand DE wants to make Eidolons accessible to more people as they didn't do this with raids and we can see what happened to them. But at least give us an option to lock in roles we want to play and a pre-plaines loading screen, or even better give us the option to look for frames we want to play with, because I'm sure we'll never get a mr-matchmaking. (and this isn't even me being an elitist C***, it's just liklier that a mr20+ guy has maxed madurai, an amp, an itzal, a critcat and a decent frame with a decent weapon)

Now, yes I can go look for a squad in recruitment chat, but then why even give us this bounty option? Also a little tip to you guys that want to go with public matchmaking. I found that going into the plaines directly and not going for the bounty results in better teammates than choosing the bounty. (Only did both of those options 2 times each now, so take this with a grain of salt, I prefer discord groups with clannies myself)

[Maka.Bones]

No u.

Ok seriously... What part of when DE said they're "re-working raids" and "making arcanes more accessible" do you guys not get...?

Edited February 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)DieselBaddAss]

I am on PS4 and now our arcanes market has dropped since 3 arcanes can drop from each of the new eidolons. In addition, players who didn't put the effort into doing raids won't be putting effort into doing these eidolon captures. For players like reducing the price for certain arcanes have driven down the market for those who put effort into getting those arcanes. I came back to Warframe and worked my way up by grinding, putting time, and money into this game.

In present time seems that certain players on PS4 who come into Warframe don't want to put effort into grinding this game out. They want to get things handed to them while reducing the price in the market because they don't want to either buy plat or to grind at the game to sell prime parts for plat.

I will have to agree with Yagamilight123 about limiting the amount of arcanes to 3 times a day. This would work since PC and console market has been saturated with arcane’s value has decreased in price.

Right now I believe veterans on PS4 will end up leaving and not come back unless there are changes to be made and one of them is to limit how many arcanes can drop each day.

[BBaw]

On 2/16/2018 at 4:18 PM, Soribada said:

Raids had limit of 1 per day for a total of 3 JV/LOR/LORNM.

To balance out the arcane market, can we get a limit on how many arcanes you can obtain/day?

 

It looks like they've been moving towards a, content and resources available to everybody, kinda deal.   They may or may not care what the particular market value is  of arcanes and whether or not certain people can capitalize on that.   I know I don't.  I'm actually pretty excited to see more people readily able to use certain things that have been in the game for quite some time now.  My vote is, leave it like it is.   And, if rivens are gonna be part of the game, then by all means open up the usage and availability for those too.  They're supposed to be a means to boost the usage of underutilized weapons.  So, lets do that.  Make it easy for everyone to do that. Same with arcanes. 

Now all they have to do is give us some content where we can take full advantage of our new found play things.

And, by the way, I really hope not one decision is ever made at DE because of this reason...To balance out the ________ market.  I would much rather they focused on the game.

[helioth137]

No.

I've run 100 Eidolon and this is a bad idea... don't make us do Eidolon every Day, like sorties, Keep it as it is and let us do as many night cycles per real day as we want.

Edited March 8, 2018 by helioth137

[xBelgabor]

Absolutely not. While I currently do play the game almost every day, I certainly do NOT want to add yet another thing to my daily stuff that I HAVE to do not to loose out on something, the limit on the raids was a bad idea that was fortunately scrapped. For once DE did a good thing to make the grind more bearable, let's not argue against that.

[Soketsu]

How about no ?

[Tyrian3k]

On 20.2.2018 at 4:16 PM, Radagosh said:

I think you misunderstood, with this, I didn't want to say that you'd need to go hunt 300 or more Hydralists I wanted to put the stress on the daily effort it took some of us to get our arcane sets. The price of Energize dropped from 500 to 150 in just 4 days. I feel like this indicates the need of a daily cap, as the availability will only increase in the weeks to come and will result in a meta which then will result in DE nerfing stuff that wasn't broken because it was "endgame" content that was hard to get before. I've now done like 60 or so Hydralists now and I can say it is boring. Even after 300 JVs I still like running them, probably mainly because I can't burn myself out by overdoing them.

Drop rates change. Deal with it. I didn't complain when DE decided to make alloy plates more accessible, since they were pretty much the resource that everyone was farming for back in the day with no frames to boost drop chances. I also didn't complain when DE increased the drop rate for Oxium, so you didn't have to kill hundreds of rarely spawning Oxium ospreys just to get Zephyr built. In fact, I was happy that new players wouldn't be faced with such a grind wall any more.

And guess what? The fact that it took you almost a year of doing the raid every day just proves to me how awful that system was. It was exactly those awful odds that kept me any many other players away from raids. DE wants people to play their content, so they changed things around to accomplish that.

And if you do the eidolons too many times per day and end up burning yourself out, that's a problem with you, not with the eidolons.

[Radagosh]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Tyrian3k:

Drop rates change. Deal with it. I didn't complain when DE decided to make alloy plates more accessible, since they were pretty much the resource that everyone was farming for back in the day with no frames to boost drop chances. I also didn't complain when DE increased the drop rate for Oxium, so you didn't have to kill hundreds of rarely spawning Oxium ospreys just to get Zephyr built. In fact, I was happy that new players wouldn't be faced with such a grind wall any more.

And guess what? The fact that it took you almost a year of doing the raid every day just proves to me how awful that system was. It was exactly those awful odds that kept me any many other players away from raids. DE wants people to play their content, so they changed things around to accomplish that.

And if you do the eidolons too many times per day and end up burning yourself out, that's a problem with you, not with the eidolons.

1. I don't care about the drop rates I care about the nerfs that will come with the widespread accessibility of "veteran content".

2. That's like your opinion. I liked having a goal to strive towards with friends on a daily basis, and that's my opinion on this topic. Also, The reason I and many others enjoyed it was because raids weren't a gear check like everything else in the game but a knowledge check. Furthermore, you were able to play with 8 people and not your usual 4, which broke the common warframe formula apart even further. THEY TERK ER RAIDS but have yet to give us anything to play instead, be it king pin or a simple but, what I believe, very interesting 8player variant on the Eidolons.

3. True burning yourself out over certain content is your own fault.  That content being the only content worth doing for "veterans", on the other hand, is DE's.

Now, I hope you enjoy your arcanes, because I sure enjoy my avenger set, which I could acquire through this replacement.But I truly believe the removal of gamemodes to push PoE isn't the way to go. I don't like fighting the Eidolons for fighting the Eidolon's sake(fighting Terry was fun, repeating the same thing two more times isn't), I don't like doing bounties for PoE's sake, I don't enjoy these new "challenging" rivens, which only exist to push us to the plaines even further. And I sure can't wait for DE to do all these things again for plaines of venus, because, apparently, it works.

I sure sound like a grumpy old man, don't I? Well, before you tell me to take a break or something silly like that, just know that I love the game, I'm just not okay with the direction it's currently going. But hey maybe in 2019, when we finally get Umbra or king pin, after they released the caves of uranus and the other 5 "open worlds", which you have to have to leave in between missions and go up to lvl 50 I'll get to enjoy some challenging content again.

[Allie_KO]

The arcane market was awful, and I hope the prices keep going down. They were never worth the inflated prices from before, and this makes them more fun for making builds.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

If they did that then they need to wipe or merge all the useless ones and get it down to arcanes that are actually worth the wait and efforts...the worst of them should still make a player excited they got one for the time gate they have to jump through.