Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

No_Quarter

Let's talk Equinox

Recommended Posts

Since Ember's rework a lot of players came out to try to roleplay their click-and-forget kind of play style with Equinox. I spent a lot of time playing Equinox without using her Day's 4 that often or at all really, think she is now my most played warframe.

So first of all, I'd like to say that I think doing fire-and-forget with Equinox is not really possible, if you add strength then it eats energy, if you add efficiency then it does nothing and each tick for her 4 is also effected by ability duration making it really hard to make it sort of almighty as we can only make 2 things strong, never 3. so it is either eff+duration or one of them + strength. People will still try as her nuke kind of scales but not really well against armored targets as ticks do low dmg

What I love about Equinox is her ability to be everything, but only few things at the time so you have to change pace and work around it. She is just great design, I find her 3 to be her strongest point in both Day and Night mode. I am not a fan of her Day's 4, I mean, it kinda derails from her design where her 3-rd ability's Augment works but with help of her team or by her own damage. Her Night's 4 heals by using damage inflicted by Equinox and allies - why does her Day's 4 deal damage? Wouldn't it make sense for it to gather damage done in AoE to an AoE nuke? have multiplier to it to be effected by ability strength and it would make sense.

Since that would be a nerf to her own output, I would suggest buffing her Metamorphosis, add bit stronger boosts to it and add some decent duration so she can be the one effectively gathering damage for her nuke. That could work to make strong bursts of damage by stacking her 1 and 3 boosts for 4 and being able to gather nuke fast when needed

I think her 2 and 3 are in perfect spot in her both forms and I would not like it to lose range and effectiveness, her metamorphosis is not really commonly used to gain advantage so figure boost to that would work with removing AoE damage from her Day's 4. Only problem with this is that Peaceful Provocation boost kicks in only after you deal some damage, that's why I suggested a pretty strong buff for duration of her Metamorphosis effects so players have time to make it work.

Just my two cents, after Ember's rework all Ember mains switched to Equinox I figure Equinox's Day's 4 is next on the balancing desk. I do have in mind that Damage 2.5 could effect this as in theory slash proc should be slightly nerfed and other 2 damage types slightly buffed, so that would be auto-nerf for Equinox, but we'll see. Again, I do not use her Day's 4 very often so I do not care if they remove it 100%, I would still play Equinox. Just figure I add suggestion that kinda makes sense for me and it would make me use her Day's 4 much more often as in such case it would be skill based to time it with your allies to get insane results. Some damage cap should probably exist to it but in my eyes this sounds kinda fun, like, you could have some strong DPS like Mesa enjoying +80% boost from Peaceful Provocation and Equinox using all that to clear next room. And that would fit her design that she takes team effort to give strong boost and then gives boost to gather damage to make use of it depending on her form. Her Night's 3 is not a direct boost but damage reduction of -80% scales things in such way that it is an indirect boost to the odds of beating enemies before they beat you.

Don't know, I do not find her Maim very strong as is,apart vs lvl 20 where it kills everything before you can use nuke, but at the same time I find it out of place with current design, this could make it stronger while also requiring player's effort to do damage. Figure a lot of rage would come towards it but I do not like walk-around-and-kill-everything kind  of gameplay, if someone does it's fine, DE may not even rework Equinox.

Just wanna hear people's thoughts and opinions on it, and maybe some ideas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Equinox is my favorite too.

Yeah, people here might say "nerf equinox it's clear ennemy too fast !" and even if equinox did dissapear, it won't solve their issues, it happens with ash, mirasimulor, tellos boltface and now ember and it will keep continue if DE keep trying solving the issue in this way.

However, I would deeply care if they remove 4th Day, I almost don't care of slash damages, I only care about the nuke, this is one of the ability who make me love equinox. If players with uppgraded loadout have higher level mission, perhaps we won't have to come into the lower one to get the reward we want and then leave.

Il y a 6 heures, No_Quarter a dit :

Her Night's 4 heals by using damage inflicted by Equinox and allies

More by kills.

Il y a 6 heures, No_Quarter a dit :

why does her Day's 4 deal damage? Wouldn't it make sense for it to gather damage done in AoE to an AoE nuke?

The power of you nuke depend of your ennemy dead while they were in your aura.

For the slash damage, I guess it's due to the description, DE wanted to letting this be clear, a slashing aura.

Citation

In Day Form, nearby enemies are bled and then subjected to a wave of slashing force.

Il y a 6 heures, No_Quarter a dit :

Since that would be a nerf to her own output, I would suggest buffing her Metamorphosis, add bit stronger boosts to it and add some decent duration so she can be the one effectively gathering damage for her nuke. That could work to make strong bursts of damage by stacking her 1 and 3 boosts for 4 and being able to gather nuke fast when needed

That or you use the 2nd night to OS anything.

Il y a 6 heures, No_Quarter a dit :

Just figure I add suggestion that kinda makes sense for me and it would make me use her Day's 4 much more often as in such case it would be skill based to time it with your allies to get insane results. Some damage cap should probably exist to it but in my eyes this sounds kinda fun,

Here, I'm not sure to understand, as I read you want to put a limit of damage on 4th day ? It's a non sens for a power who scale with the hitpoint of your ennemies.

Tell me I didn't understand or you talk about the slash damage (since they are only relevant in lower level mission)

Il y a 6 heures, No_Quarter a dit :

Her Night's 3 is not a direct boost but damage reduction of -80% scales things in such way that it is an indirect boost to the odds of beating enemies before they beat you.

Many will tell you that at is right now, it' not worth to using it since energy drain scale with the number of your foes.

-----

For the ideas, I would like a HoT when you switch to night while using your 4th day and a DoT when you switch to day while using your 4th night. => give more points to switch forms

For the over heal from the 4th night I would love a hitpoint pool shared (decrease over time?) with your allies, each time they get hit, the pool protect your allie if they stay in the aura. Since it's scale with the foes, it will be always viable without be an "invincible" button.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am aware that kills trigger gathering damage done for Mend, point is kind of the same that things need to be done in order to gain effect - unlike her Maim.

51 minutes ago, Soketsu said:
7 hours ago, No_Quarter said:

Since that would be a nerf to her own output, I would suggest buffing her Metamorphosis, add bit stronger boosts to it and add some decent duration so she can be the one effectively gathering damage for her nuke. That could work to make strong bursts of damage by stacking her 1 and 3 boosts for 4 and being able to gather nuke fast when needed

That or you use the 2nd night to OS anything.

Yeah, I am not sure how does it work to use Night's 2 in Day form as my suggestion was related to gathering damage for a nuke which is different from night's 2 as it is AoE damage, not sure how your finisher damage compares to what I said

Tho I have a tingle that you did not understand anything of what I said

51 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

Here, I'm not sure to understand, as I read you want to put a limit of damage on 4th day ? It's a non sens for a power who scale with the hitpoint of your ennemies.

the way it currently scales is by damage done, heavier enemies have more HP and only thing preventing it from going crazy is low-ish damage per proc. Now, what I suggested is removing proc and damage done by 4 and just making Equinox and team gather damage done in her area. Since this damage could be done by some INSANE DPS, this ability, as I suggested it, should have some sort of cap.

I do not see how that fails to scale, as if some random DPS is killing lvl 10 targets you will get low damage towards the nuke, and if your team is killing lvl 100 targets you will get 20 000 damage in 1 second for the nuke, so in such case, people could do some stupid numbers so somewhat limiting it should be done to maintain form of balance, like limiting for 200 000 damage and if you can gather than in 1 second then you can nuke that in 1 second. As it is now - you do not have a cap but you also cannot do too much damage so there is sort of cap there - gathering hundreds of thousands of damage with Equinox's nuke is not reliable.

But way I suggested it - it could be done, but with help of the team and with buff I suggested for Metamorphosis so it would be more flexible than what we have now as you could potentially gather damage for the nuke WAY faster - you would just have to work for it as opposed to what it is - you just have to run around long enough.

51 minutes ago, Soketsu said:
7 hours ago, No_Quarter said:

Her Night's 3 is not a direct boost but damage reduction of -80% scales things in such way that it is an indirect boost to the odds of beating enemies before they beat you.

Many will tell you that at is right now, it' not worth to using it since energy drain scale with the number of your foes.

-----

this goes off-topic:

Zenurik makes is very easy to use, even when I have Corrosive Projection on her, it can be consuming but it is a very strong ability to save your entire team and damn worth it on high level missions. So I will disagree with "those many" as my team dies more easily when I do not have it on, also slow from peaceful provocation makes it easier to kill targets with headshots fast so you do not have to use energy for Rest and do finisher which saves your energy and gives you chance to get energy orb. I find it pointless to run Equinox without using Zenurik and Primed Flow, 

I do not have 638 energy on Equinox to look at it, spending 300 to save team out of bad situation in high level missions is worth it in my book. Also, enemies drop energy when they die so you do not really lose energy with energizing dash and whatever the name of thing that gives more energy from orbs, I almost never run out of energy on it.

And it comes down to your ability to build for it - most engagements in this game happen on less than 30m so you do not need more range to waste energy on enemies that are not even part of the fight. I really have 0 trouble maintaining it in 99.9% situations while also having  229% ability strength, 175% range, 105% efficiency and duration suffers on my general build with 40%. Role defined builds could probably suffer if you add more range and sacrifice efficiency for stronger boost (tho my general build gives 76% boost) but in such cases you already have team in place and you are a boost, so you do not need to do Night's 3.

I can send you my build if you are interested to see that it can actually work, just contact me in game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. I am a self-admitted Equinox lover, but her kit is showing its age more than 2 years since its release. Conceptually yes, she is great design, but in practice she falls way short of what she could be. There are quite a few of these threads popping up; suffice to say it would be beating a dead horse to mention that she still cannot maintain either her 3 or 4 when casting Metamorphosis, which relegates players to specializing in one form over the other, rather than truly being able to mod for tandem use. On that note, Metamorphosis being duration based further highlights how awkward her kit truly is. It encourages you to juggle buffs yet your other abilities do not function effectively when you do. She is an aura frame basically designed to work better with a team and her passive is a practically nonexistent Equilibrium mod. Mend still falls way short because it's exceedingly wasteful to maintain it rather than using the heal as soon as your team has taken significant damage, and Pacify's energy draining mechanic is rubbish when you compare it to how Provoke triggers.

I and some other people (including Soketsu) have been vocalizing Equinox's issues to ad nauseam as of late. I do believe she will be looked at with the next wave of frame balance passes, but I really hope her usability is improved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Leuca said:

Meh. I am a self-admitted Equinox lover, but her kit is showing its age more than 2 years since its release. Conceptually yes, she is great design, but in practice she falls way short of what she could be. There are quite a few of these threads popping up; suffice to say it would be beating a dead horse to mention that she still cannot maintain either her 3 or 4 when casting Metamorphosis, which relegates players to specializing in one form over the other, rather than truly being able to mod for tandem use. On that note, Metamorphosis being duration based further highlights how awkward her kit truly is. It encourages you to juggle buffs yet your other abilities do not function effectively when you do. She is an aura frame basically designed to work better with a team and her passive is a practically nonexistent Equilibrium mod. Mend still falls way short because it's exceedingly wasteful to maintain it rather than using the heal as soon as your team has taken significant damage, and Pacify's energy draining mechanic is rubbish when you compare it to how Provoke triggers.

I and some other people (including Soketsu) have been vocalizing Equinox's issues to ad nauseam as of late. I do believe she will be looked at with the next wave of frame balance passes, but I really hope her usability is improved.

I can see why her 3 and 4 cannot stay when you switch forms and I kinda think that for me she works in both forms, tho on really high levels I am trained not to think that Day form exists as it simply lacks any form of survivability. Which is fine, it is her aggressive form and her 80% boost is something special.

About Metamorphosis duration - I think this was devs call to that had to be made in order to balance her. Because having constant high boost to damage kind of negates the need for many other warframes, especially considering that such boost can go up to like x2 (or numbers close to that, in any case it is too strong for constant boost). Way I see it is that having Armor boost in Night mode does not break the game, number is fine to have it 24/7, just damage boost in Day mode is too much, so they had to cut it.

Way it could be done is that tapping 1 would switch the forms and holding 1 would refresh the Metamorphosis boosts for current form (both consume energy). This could work actually, please DE, make this happen

As for Pacify and Provoke - it has to be different, you cannot compare them and in most cases you will be fine - and holding off 30 enemies should really be energy consuming as with Peaceful Provocation they do not have a chance to deal any damage to you (as long as you move) so yeah, I am yet to find a warframe that does that level of CC and protection for low energy consumption. So I think Pacify is fine as is, it would be broken if you make it cost less. Provoke is as it is, made to boost allies. Dunno, they both make sense to me in terms of design

Mend it a great additional dimension to her ability to be everything in a team. At first I had issues as it is really expensive to maintain it - but then I realized that you should not maintained it but time it properly to gather damage fast, close it and that's it. As such it works pretty well. If DE would introduce sort of "undead" augment for Mend that consumes HP pool gathered with like -500% efficiency when Equinox or someone else die - then it would make sense to talk about maintaining it or even make the augment such that makes it easier to maintain. And idea I shared in original post for Maim could actually be second part of her Mend and Maim augment (without efficiency increase for Maim)

I am kinda impatient when it comes to her changes, I love her so much. Not like I am afraid DE will mess he up as so far reworks are pretty good, I just don't see better timing to lay out ideas for it, like your talk about Metamorphosis made me think of that idea to hold to refresh, so kinda hoping this all will make DE think of something good. Honestly I do not think she needs much changes, again, I love her just as she is now but some minor QoL changes could be introduced to her design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 56 minutes, No_Quarter a dit :

I am aware that kills trigger gathering damage done for Mend, point is kind of the same that things need to be done in order to gain effect - unlike her Maim.

Yeah, I am not sure how does it work to use Night's 2 in Day form as my suggestion was related to gathering damage for a nuke which is different from night's 2 as it is AoE damage, not sure how your finisher damage compares to what I said

Tho I have a tingle that you did not understand anything of what I said

the way it currently scales is by damage done, heavier enemies have more HP and only thing preventing it from going crazy is low-ish damage per proc. Now, what I suggested is removing proc and damage done by 4 and just making Equinox and team gather damage done in her area. Since this damage could be done by some INSANE DPS, this ability, as I suggested it, should have some sort of cap.

I do not see how that fails to scale, as if some random DPS is killing lvl 10 targets you will get low damage towards the nuke, and if your team is killing lvl 100 targets you will get 20 000 damage in 1 second for the nuke, so in such case, people could do some stupid numbers so somewhat limiting it should be done to maintain form of balance, like limiting for 200 000 damage and if you can gather than in 1 second then you can nuke that in 1 second. As it is now - you do not have a cap but you also cannot do too much damage so there is sort of cap there - gathering hundreds of thousands of damage with Equinox's nuke is not reliable.

But way I suggested it - it could be done, but with help of the team and with buff I suggested for Metamorphosis so it would be more flexible than what we have now as you could potentially gather damage for the nuke WAY faster - you would just have to work for it as opposed to what it is - you just have to run around long enough.

this goes off-topic:

Zenurik makes is very easy to use, even when I have Corrosive Projection on her, it can be consuming but it is a very strong ability to save your entire team and damn worth it on high level missions. So I will disagree with "those many" as my team dies more easily when I do not have it on, also slow from peaceful provocation makes it easier to kill targets with headshots fast so you do not have to use energy for Rest and do finisher which saves your energy and gives you chance to get energy orb. I find it pointless to run Equinox without using Zenurik and Primed Flow, 

I do not have 638 energy on Equinox to look at it, spending 300 to save team out of bad situation in high level missions is worth it in my book. Also, enemies drop energy when they die so you do not really lose energy with energizing dash and whatever the name of thing that gives more energy from orbs, I almost never run out of energy on it.

And it comes down to your ability to build for it - most engagements in this game happen on less than 30m so you do not need more range to waste energy on enemies that are not even part of the fight. I really have 0 trouble maintaining it in 99.9% situations while also having  229% ability strength, 175% range, 105% efficiency and duration suffers on my general build with 40%. Role defined builds could probably suffer if you add more range and sacrifice efficiency for stronger boost (tho my general build gives 76% boost) but in such cases you already have team in place and you are a boost, so you do not need to do Night's 3.

I can send you my build if you are interested to see that it can actually work, just contact me in game

- Yes because I'm not convinced about it, at least in the way you describe it.

If you can't kill a single under the lvl 100 120 you might just need to use better mods/weapons.

Because charging the nuke recquire only to kill things while they are within your aura.

Your power strengh don't change it. Your damage may change the speed at wich you kill things but the switching to day provide this boost. Bonus if you use the augment.

 

- What low damage per proc do you talk about ? A well charged nuke kill anything. Slash damage are irrelevant outside lower level mission.

For your suggestion, to just gather the damage done i'm against it. It would make Equinox too dependant of the others, especially if you want to put a cap.

All  I see it's a buff to the teamplay with equinox at the expense to make the nuke have a weaker scalling when ennemy get really strong.

You can always kill thing, as you already understand, equinox is able to make foes vulnerable to finish damage. Most ennemy dies with only 1 swing of a melee weapon no matter how much their level.

 

- When I say "many", I talk about people in general. If you want to make any change a warframe, you have to take into account the people who use it. For my case I prefer to make them sleep so they don't deal any damage at all.

Some also just suggest "all allies within your 3rd night take reduced damage".

Yeah, I'm well aware how zenurik works, gammacore synoid too. Also I got primed flow, and more than enough blue pizzas, so energy is not a problem to me.

And I don't need any builds on equinox, I already have done all the configurations I need to clear any content under the level 150, after that level  I need some testing.

 

Last but not least don't hope too much, equinox is at a fine place for now. And I do hope it will never go down to the the trash stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would convert her 4 heal into an Aura that actively distributes a percentage of damage done (probably a small percentage?) evenly split to heal all allies within range. It could also just be a set number that procs every time damage is dealt with a very short cooldown per person so that very fast attacking weapons don't get too crazy. Or the value could scale with attack speed (slower weapons doing more healing) so faster attacks did less per attack. That might be easier to balance? 

Having to store and release bursts of healing is just kind of bad in a game where most frames have tiny health pools and it's a fast paced game. By being based on damage done or on damage occurrences and not kills, it also allows Equinox to heal in situations where there's more damage going out than kills IE: Eidolon hunts. If the aura just actively distributed a percentage of damage done by allies in its radius to allies as healing (or proced specific values per damage application), she could be an alternative to Trinity and Oberon as a Lure healer and would just be a much better healing/support frame overall. If you want to heal with Mend in its current state you have to spend too much time focusing on just that one task, limiting her usefulness on top of it just being a clunkier form of healing. 

The healing output would be very high potentially, but you also have to remember that she's not giving allies a 75% damage reduction buff at the same time or a huge armor buff or occasional immunity shields. She does have her 3 in night form for DR, but the DR is lower (edit: I guess it's potentially higher than Trinity in the inner aura radius with max power strength) and drops off with range. 

I also think the cost system for her 4 should be converted to work the same way as her 3 where it counters regen but doesn't disable it (not talking about the per enemy cost system). That's not really just an Equinox specific thing though, I just think the energy disabling mechanic is outdated and bad in general in this game and Equinox's 3 (or at least the way the wiki describes it I don't use her often) is the only ability that works the way drains should work. 

They could redesign Maim similar to my Mend suggestion and just copy damage dealt in the aura, multiply it based on strength and then re-distribute it across enemies in the aura as damage is occurring. That would make it more passive though. A lot of people may prefer the strategic unleashing of Maim damage. For Maim I would just remove the CC proc aspect of it so it stops CCing mobs at a great distance, which is the only major annoyance of the ability for groups. The way it does more damage to closer targets is already basically what they did to Banshee's quake + augment. Maim just have infinite scaling potential, which some abilities do and some don't for whatever unexplained reasons. 

For her 1, I think it would be neat if the in-form passives were just always up and it didn't have a duration for them, but then when you switch you get your last forms buffs for a duration on top of the current form. That would just be a straight buff to her, which would be nice. If you want to maintain both buffs you swap back and forth, if you don't you just get one forms buffs. You still have an incentive to swap, but now get a benefit for not swapping as well. I'd also consider just having Duality have a life bar and no duration. You swap to re-spawn it when and if you need to, but it doesn't need to rely on duration mods on top of a health pool anymore. They could also make Duality prefer your last target so you could get it to help you focus on high threat targets or things like specific Eidolon body parts or parts of other kinds of special bosses where you have to be more precise. 

TLDR: Change Mend to make Equinox a viable healer in more situations, including Eidolon hunts/ lure healing. Remove the CC aspect of Maim, which is the biggest annoyance it adds to groups. Consider changing the energy drain mechanics of her 4 (drains should counter regen as they do with her 3, not disable it entirely). Consider changing her 1 so that the current form passives are just always up and the duration instead just allows the previous forms buffs to stay up briefly. Duality could also be changed so it has no duration, just a health pool. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Soketsu

I am still 105% sure you did not get what I said on the suggestion and how math of it makes it perfectly scale with ability of the team, making Equinox's 3 and 4 abilities team dependent in every form. As it Pacify, Mend and Provoke are team dependent (with augment which should be standard part of Equinox builds) so do not see the issue of this being team dependent.... because as is you do not have a cap, but you cannot make too much damage so there is artificial cap to it, you just cannot see it but it's there - and Equinox's damage per tick and AoE scaling, with average chance for energy orb drop and number of rendered enemies, has been done.in such to make sure Equinox does not exceed that expected damage number (in statistical sense,with certain margin or error, like in 99% cases Equinox will go over that). So just putting a blatant number to it so you can see it will not change things in terms of effectiveness. But then again, you are against it because as is Equinox can totally gather 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 damage ez pz. Stating out that expected maximum number would not change a goddamn thing and yet I can totally see that many people would rage over it... math is hard.... truth be told statistics are hard and there is a lot of stuff to it that makes people who do not know statistics to lose their minds over it as you have so many variables and relations in the system that has to land the expected output within acceptable margin of error, blabla, those people said Quartakk got nerfed.... and I can see them saying the same for this

you could gather damage 100x faster this way and have 100x more dynamic gameplay with the nuke without removing ability to scale it, only thing Equinox would lose with it is ability to walk around on low level missions, do nothing and auto-win... guess too many people would miss that part, especially with Ember requiring more buttons to be effective. I know I wouldn't.

As for suggestion that Equinox's 3 should work exactly like Trinity's 4 - I do not think that is good for the game, warframes should have unique mechanics to them so everyone can find their own cup of tea. Trinity's 4 is better but as a package I prefer Equinox, you trade bit of flexibility on damage reduction to get some other things, that's what it's about and that's what makes a cup of tea THE cup of tea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, No_Quarter said:

I can see why her 3 and 4 cannot stay when you switch forms and I kinda think that for me she works in both forms, tho on really high levels I am trained not to think that Day form exists as it simply lacks any form of survivability. Which is fine, it is her aggressive form and her 80% boost is something special.

About Metamorphosis duration - I think this was devs call to that had to be made in order to balance her. Because having constant high boost to damage kind of negates the need for many other warframes, especially considering that such boost can go up to like x2 (or numbers close to that, in any case it is too strong for constant boost). Way I see it is that having Armor boost in Night mode does not break the game, number is fine to have it 24/7, just damage boost in Day mode is too much, so they had to cut it.

Way it could be done is that tapping 1 would switch the forms and holding 1 would refresh the Metamorphosis boosts for current form (both consume energy). This could work actually, please DE, make this happen

As for Pacify and Provoke - it has to be different, you cannot compare them and in most cases you will be fine - and holding off 30 enemies should really be energy consuming as with Peaceful Provocation they do not have a chance to deal any damage to you (as long as you move) so yeah, I am yet to find a warframe that does that level of CC and protection for low energy consumption. So I think Pacify is fine as is, it would be broken if you make it cost less. Provoke is as it is, made to boost allies. Dunno, they both make sense to me in terms of design

Mend it a great additional dimension to her ability to be everything in a team. At first I had issues as it is really expensive to maintain it - but then I realized that you should not maintained it but time it properly to gather damage fast, close it and that's it. As such it works pretty well. If DE would introduce sort of "undead" augment for Mend that consumes HP pool gathered with like -500% efficiency when Equinox or someone else die - then it would make sense to talk about maintaining it or even make the augment such that makes it easier to maintain. And idea I shared in original post for Maim could actually be second part of her Mend and Maim augment (without efficiency increase for Maim)

I am kinda impatient when it comes to her changes, I love her so much. Not like I am afraid DE will mess he up as so far reworks are pretty good, I just don't see better timing to lay out ideas for it, like your talk about Metamorphosis made me think of that idea to hold to refresh, so kinda hoping this all will make DE think of something good. Honestly I do not think she needs much changes, again, I love her just as she is now but some minor QoL changes could be introduced to her design.

You think it is ok that one of her forms discourages use at high levels? You really don't think there could be any improvement made?

Change the bonuses and adjust their % values. The form you pick should have an inherent incentive to use it, and having that incentive decay without allowing you to maintain the flow of your other abilities is completely counterintuitive. Nobody uses Metamorphosis for the bonuses anyway.

Nobody said CCing and damage reduction on 30+ enemies should be cheap, but it also doesn't need to drain your energy the way it does. It can have the initial cost increased while removing the maintenance per-second cost, for example. Provoke as it is, just effectively gives you a significant, permanent boost to allied power strength for a ridiculously low cost. Values can be adjusted for the sake of balance, but having abilities be prohibitively expensive or unwieldy discourages their use.

Abilities that are slow yet demand reactionary use cannot scale with high level content. Having the ability to switch between forms allows the observant player to adjust according to what's currently happening. Release the ability still means you have to build up stored HP via kills again; it doesn't come without an inherent penalty; it's just increasing flexibility.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 1 minute, No_Quarter a dit :

@Soketsu

I am still 105% sure you did not get what I said on the suggestion and how math of it makes it perfectly scale with ability of the team, making Equinox's 3 and 4 abilities team dependent in every form. As it Pacify, Mend and Provoke are team dependent (with augment which should be standard part of Equinox builds) so do not see the issue of this being team dependent.... because as is you do not have a cap, but you cannot make too much damage so there is artificial cap to it, you just cannot see it but it's there - and Equinox's damage per tick and AoE scaling, with average chance for energy orb drop and number of rendered enemies, has been done.in such to make sure Equinox does not exceed that expected damage number (in statistical sense,with certain margin or error, like in 99% cases Equinox will go over that). So just putting a blatant number to it so you can see it will not change things in terms of effectiveness. But then again, you are against it because as is Equinox can totally gather 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 damage ez pz. Stating out that expected maximum number would not change a goddamn thing and yet I can totally see that many people would rage over it... math is hard.... truth be told statistics are hard and there is a lot of stuff to it that makes people who do not know statistics to lose their minds over it as you have so many variables and relations in the system that has to land the expected output within acceptable margin of error, blabla, those people said Quartakk got nerfed.... and I can see them saying the same for this

you could gather damage 100x faster this way and have 100x more dynamic gameplay with the nuke without removing ability to scale it, only thing Equinox would lose with it is ability to walk around on low level missions, do nothing and auto-win... guess too many people would miss that part, especially with Ember requiring more buttons to be effective. I know I wouldn't.

As for suggestion that Equinox's 3 should work exactly like Trinity's 4 - I do not think that is good for the game, warframes should have unique mechanics to them so everyone can find their own cup of tea. Trinity's 4 is better but as a package I prefer Equinox, you trade bit of flexibility on damage reduction to get some other things, that's what it's about and that's what makes a cup of tea THE cup of tea

Mend totally team dependend ? are you even sure of that ? Maim & Mend are the same on the conditions, if someone die in your aura, your power grow and in case of mend you gain shield. No matter who kill it.

il y a 22 minutes, No_Quarter a dit :

but you cannot make too much damage so there is artificial cap to it, you just cannot see it but it's there

This are to me the words of someone who need to get better  (the right) mods, you can always one shot regular foes. The difference is that sometime you have to take some risks.

il y a 30 minutes, No_Quarter a dit :

only thing Equinox would lose with it is ability to walk around on low level missions, do nothing and auto-win... guess too many people would miss that part, especially with Ember requiring more buttons to be effective. I know I wouldn't.

Well it's a good cause (I guess), but will not solve the issue that some people see, even if equinox dissapear there still ways to walk arround clear the content fast. It's already an auto win for most tenno to run into level 30- missions. For veteran, well most of us have build to handle couple of hours of endless missions, so right now, must of the content are "auto win" to us, the question is more how much time it will cost.

Perhaps you need to understand the other face, due to grind issue, some people at some point will prefer efficient solution in order to finish their objective in 2 3 minute, and do the mision until they get what they want.

il y a 46 minutes, No_Quarter a dit :

But then again, you are against it because as is Equinox can totally gather 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 damage ez pz.

Because I like my maim at it is, this power is already excellent. Aside from making it even more violent against level 120+ I don't want to change it.

Yes, "ez pz" If the ennemy are strong enough, I won't even try it in regular missions, since I use what you may call "an ember like config". I guess i'm bad to just farm my stuff efficiently.

il y a 49 minutes, No_Quarter a dit :

As for suggestion that Equinox's 3 should work exactly like Trinity's 4 - I do not think that is good for the game, warframes should have unique mechanics to them so everyone can find their own cup of tea. Trinity's 4 is better but as a package I prefer Equinox, you trade bit of flexibility on damage reduction to get some other things, that's what it's about and that's what makes a cup of tea THE cup of tea

Not totally true, one you get bufffed and you can go away, the other you need to stay close.

I believe I'm done, at 1st I just wanted to give you attention, I suggest you to practice a little more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love equinox, there is so many ways to play him aswell. Even duality build can be crazy good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, -Trey- said:

I love equinox, there is so many ways to play him aswell. Even duality build can be crazy good.

*her

9 hours ago, Soketsu said:

Mend totally team dependend ? are you even sure of that ?

well no one will commit suicide in the aura to give Tenno ability to heal so yeah, team has to do anything to get damage racked up for heals to happen.... Unlike Maim when no one needs to do a damn thing. But that's the same thing, like, actually play the game, and just walk around, same things. Not like me suggesting that Maim should gather damage the same way makes it actually the same

9 hours ago, Soketsu said:

This are to me the words of someone who need to get better  (the right) mods, you can always one shot regular foes. The difference is that sometime you have to take some risks.

depends on PoV, I'd like to see you go infinite on the damage, please, prove me wrong without trying to look like better player by using words, go on, get into the mission and gather as much damage as you can for the nuke. Do that 10 times, 100 times and you may start to see the pattern. And then try to go 10x higher than that? you can't, that's the "cap" I am talking about, it's math, you can "risk"  and go over like 5% but it's still withing the margin.... as I said, math is hard, when I stated "too much damage" I figure it represents number out of balance, like you cannot gather 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 with Maim, you just can't. I never said you cannot clear rooms with Maim, I just said the way you gather damage for it lacks usage of skill, unlike Nova where you have to hit her ball which take skill to aim and it can still clear room. term "too much" is used to approximate the cap, or to call it better, the "maximum number of damage goal" that exists in statistical form for her Maim as you cannot use Maim to one shot Lephantis - as the "maximum damage goal" I am talking about prevents you from doing such thing. Stating out that number for the public and making Equinox gather damage faster by using skill would make some people cry, but not the skilled ones

As Ember lost her walk-and-clear-low-level kind of gameplay without letting team do a damn thing we can be sure Equinox will get the same treatment, you can like it or not, you can ignore the math but it is very likely to happen

10 hours ago, Soketsu said:

Not totally true, one you get bufffed and you can go away, the other you need to stay close.

Dude you can stop trying to find meaningless differences, because Equinox totally lacks range so in like 99% cases this would not matter unless in PoE, but in regular levels everyone is close enough to ignore the difference between Bless and what you stated.... in theory you are right but I cannot see it being any different in terms of gameplay, tho I can see why you try to point it out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that Equinox needs some minor tweaks in order to become truly viable. To that end I created a thread a couple weeks ago.  Please give it a read and leave some notes or just bump it for attention.  The more we get the word out the more likely it is that DE might seriously consider it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats with equinox sleep has it always been that a sleep target if not killed in first shot lays on the ground for the duration of sleep and if shot again gets ragdolled into the distance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites