why not universal vacuum

[AuroraSonicBoom]

It's not needed, it's as simple as that. Collecting all the loot in an area isn't so fundamental to the game's progression like attacking or moving. It's a quality of life improvement, and by now with all those concessions and options DE has given you, you have no ground to stand on demanding even more.

As a player progresses, the importance of collected loot decreases until it's only important for a few selected mods or resources they want to make sure they'll get.

It's overall better for the economy to have players collect less superfluous loot. Sure, you can't stop it, but you can refrain from encouraging it at least.

Same goes for the psychological aspect. It's more rewarding to walk to loot compared to have it brought to you. Even if the difference is tiny, there's one between picking up loot manually and having it float to you through walls and ceilings. One is active, the other passive. The effect might be tiny, but with repeated over a long time, it conditions a player emotionally.

You have the option to use any sentinel of your choosing. Univac isn't a necessity, not from a loot standpoint, and not from a gameplay standpoint. It's a luxury at the very least, one you can be expected to give up temporarily for benefits that are affecting the combat much more. What, you don't need 60% crit buffs, double drops or invisibility? Stay with sentinels, then. Take what DE has given you, ask for improvements to Chesa companions, but do not pretend that not having a mod that satisfies people's OCD equipped is a gamebreaking drawback.

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

56 minutes ago, Noble_One said:

i have yet to see even minimal amount of people say no to it. i would only not want it if DE fixes that we can get to any item without them falling into cant be reached places or dead area places.

Since I don't really think DE is going to implement, I don't feel the need to say no it.  I don't really want it and, I don't really understand this seemingly intense desire for it.  Warframes now have a minor vacuum to them, and if that is not enough, there are sentinels. 

I often run my kavat or nothing at all with no issue.  Even relics missions (I like the fast dash to the end ones too) it isn't that big of a deal and gives that old game feel when void traces couldn't be vacuumed at all.  Plus, it handicaps me a little to allow players not as familar with Warframe's movement/maps to keep up more. 

I also see it as a fair trade off in your choice of companion.  You have to decide what you think is more valuable.  The only frame I really feel the loss of vacuum is Nekros since I try to depoil 24/7 with him and sometimes the health orbs are way too spread out.  But you know what?  I think that fits that the master death isn't really keen on living companions.  Flavor win.

[ThorienKELL]

Universal vacuum will come sooner or later. Why so? Because it's universally good and useful thing that will allow us COMPANION FLEXIBILITY. There is no single reason logical or justified against it. It bothers no one, it helps everyone. I cannot believe stupidity of some posters here and the bizarre reasons they give why we don't need vacuum, or why the other players should not want it (Hurr Hurr! Play muh way - Your way no fun! No skillz!)

I'm not saying exilus vacuum should be the same as sentinel - something can be sacrificed. Let's say that we get 60% of sentinel range and - don't forget - you're sacrificing exilus slot. That would be perfect and Solomonic solution. Are the pets really that OP that they would take over the whole game then? Hell no, most of them are crap in fact. Wanting to have your cat or kubrow as companion should not put you in disadvantage. Sentinels will have their own set of advantages and kubrows/kavats their own.

After that we will require thaw duration of stasis pet removal reduced to 1 minute. Why would player be limited to one living pet when he can use all sentinels at will?

And if they are not fully balanced - balance them. We want diversity, flexibility and OPTIONS. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Edited February 18, 2018 by ThorienKELL

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

I wish they just put a postmaster like in Destiny. Jumping around everywhere is not a skill, also not wanting to do that all the time is not laziness. It’s just qol system just like fast travel in video games. If something is repetitve and pointless, why not give players a shortcut so that more time can be spent on better things. It seems like many people here doesn’t think that Warframe doesn’t have better things to do other than swiping every corners of every map everytime to pick up items that you already have. I would have not agreed if their particle effects were not so visually clusterfu*k. This game is kind of bad to my eyes and I can literally feel my eyes having a hard time while I’m forcing it to transmit the clusterfuc* information to my brain  

If running around to pick up items is so important to an extent that it’s bad to give us qol changes then why not we add 5 seconds pickup animation for each items we grab? why don’t we have pickup command like in other games lol. It’s the best thing in the game let’s make it even longer and beautiful and fashion. 

If DE can’t allow themselves to do something that’s already in Destiny then I would suggest that reduce the number of items scattered around the map by tenfold while increasing the amount of resources we get from each pickups significantly so that finding a resouce cash actually means something but that does sound like too much work for not very meaningful outcome so just add a postmaster. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by (PS4)johnsoigne

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

...

It's

never

happening

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

I figure they should have a gear item called loot magnet. Maybe requires things that don't start to drop regularly until late in the game to build, requires 24 hours to build, lasts for about 7 days.

I realize their whole profit model revolves around people buying stuff. But I don't really think they need to actually you know... Force you to use a specific mod and specific companion or whatever just to get the components you need to build stuff your self. Everything costs enough stuff that you have to put enough labor into it as it is. Sure if you've been playing since day one you have already gotten everything you'll ever need. But given the fact that if you matchmake in this game you'll inevitably end up stuck with two people who have completed the objective and are sitting on the evac zone before you've even finished loading into the game, they can atleast let you get what you can with the time you have...

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

9 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

I saw a thread claiming that DE decided to start selling accessory pack separately due to the overwhelming feedback they received on the subject. So I'm asking myself, why not universal vacuum? I guarantee that would rank as the number one change players would like to see in the game. Maybe that dude that made a video causing DE to listen about  accessories needs to make a video about UNIVERSAL VACUUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well one is a cosmetic, and the other is a central gameplay mechanic. There's no equivalency here.

Besides DE is totally all about monkey pawing it if we ever got easier looting. Items would be picked up immediately upon drop but drop percentages would be reduced to 0.000000001%. And even if you did get some super rare mod you wouldn't notice it in all the resource spam and would probably delete it while transmuting anyways.

[trst]

I don't care if DE adds UV or not as I never fell for the Carrier meta and I don't even notice when I'm picking up resources anymore.

 

But I am willing to bet that DE won't add it cause they get a kick out of people exclusively using Carrier/Sentinels just to be more lazy for vacuum.

Did you know that Chesa Kubrows can pick up wisps, ayatans, and plat extracts? Bet most people don't know that cause they refuse to even look at other companions.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

After reading this debate go on and on for months now and trying to pay attention to how DE designs this game the solution once again is kinda simple to understand why universal vacuum won't be a thing until an overwhelming number of people complain.

DE doesn't design the game with the intent for you to pick up each and every thing that drops. They do not design the mechanics to fundamentally need a steady stream of consumables to be effective for the majority of the content out there. And for DE one of the core concepts they see as "difficulty" and challenge are things like ammo, energy and HP efficiency. This means at higher levels they intentionally do not want to make it easier for you to have that steady stream of consumables.

This also has an ancillary benefit of reducing your chances at receiving rare drops unless you stop playing to go pick each and everything in the map. Once again, something they aren't interested in letting players do easily. They also feel the current sentinel/vacuum method is perfectly fine and the only accepted method of doing this for the majority of content in the game.

 

They do not care that pets are not survivable above lvl 100  making playing with vacuum dependent builds difficult.

They do care that you have to grind and build out a pet to make use of vacuum.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Wait............... I was under the impression vacuum only works on sentinels... What is this "build out a pet to make use of vacuum"?

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

Wait............... I was under the impression vacuum only works on sentinels... What is this "build out a pet to make use of vacuum"?

You can use any sentinel with vacuum now, this was the only bone they gave vacuum fans. Originally you could only use it on the carrier.

People now have this idea that since they allowed all sentinels to use vacuum they should just expand it to everything or just give warframes vacuum.

But as I mentioned before they don't realize DE feels the compromise of having to build out a sentinel and keep it alive during mission the balance to having vacuum. You want vacuum, use a sentinel, end of story. Having a universal vacuum doesn't fall in line to how DE plays the game and how they want players to approach the game.

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

UV is needed for improved quality of life. We are playing a space shooter. Not loot chaser.

There's a chart that showed that carrier was the most used companion by an ungodly margin , because of vacuum. And that's hard evidence that the community wants the ability to pick up loot efficiently.

Those stats far outweigh the vocal minority in this thread that do not want universal vacuum.

I bet if we do a profile check on each and every one of the anti universal vacuum posters on this thread, almost all of them will have carrier or a sentinel as their most used companion.

The hypocrisy.

 

 

 

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Then be specific. Sentinels are not pets. They are drones. It's like calling naming your walmart quadcopter "Jeff" and saying it's your pet. 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

Then be specific. Sentinels are not pets. They are drones. It's like calling naming your walmart quadcopter "Jeff" and saying it's your pet. 

Sentinels, Kubrows and Kavats are pets. I wouldn't think anyone was confused since the issues is why doesn't kavats or kubrows at least don't have vacuum.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Sentinels are not pets because the game does not treat them as pets. They treat them as objects or devices to fulfill a specific role. I promise you no one has an emotional bond to their sentinel or gets upset if the sentinel gets blown up. Annoyed maybe. Not upset. Their pet many people develop emotional ties to. Sure it's not like a real animal and your ability to interact with it is tightly limited but I can tell you I never look twice at my sentinel's health, I do keep track of  my Kavat, Jinx's health. I remember the first time I "tested" to see what happened if I let a kubrow, specifically a charger, die to see if permadeath was a thing for pets, I felt terrible for doing it, I just needed to know how the system worked before I committed serious effort into having a pet. 

If they wanted people to think of sentinels as pets they would have made them behave as though they were sentient, and have them interact with your frame, instead of just hovering over your shoulder. They deliberately chose not to make them act as pets. There for I strongly doubt most people think of them as pets.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

Sentinels are not pets because the game does not treat them as pets. They treat them as objects or devices to fulfill a specific role. I promise you no one has an emotional bond to their sentinel or gets upset if the sentinel gets blown up. Annoyed maybe. Not upset. Their pet many people develop emotional ties to. Sure it's not like a real animal and your ability to interact with it is tightly limited but I can tell you I never look twice at my sentinel's health, I do keep track of  my Kavat, Jinx's health. I remember the first time I "tested" to see what happened if I let a kubrow, specifically a charger, die to see if permadeath was a thing for pets, I felt terrible for doing it, I just needed to know how the system worked before I committed serious effort into having a pet. 

If they wanted people to think of sentinels as pets they would have made them behave as though they were sentient, and have them interact with your frame, instead of just hovering over your shoulder. They deliberately chose not to make them act as pets. There for I strongly doubt most people think of them as pets.

Really?

They occupy the same slot in your loadout. They share many of the same mods and use the exact same mod system. Stop playing semantics about something which isn't even what people are talking about.

Fine sentinels are not pets, you win, doesn't change anything about what my real point was.

[GlaikitMayflies]

2 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Really?

They occupy the same slot in your loadout. They share many of the same mods and use the exact same mod system. Stop playing semantics about something which isn't even what people are talking about.

Fine sentinels are not pets, you win, doesn't change anything about what my real point was.

lol thread derail.

 

[GlaikitMayflies]

Honestly I don't see why not. I have yet to see a compelling argument against it. 

[Rage_Inducer]

From what I gathered, the reasons appear to be:
   They don't want everything to be the same.

and

   Apparently they think people will stop using sentinels.

When making it different makes it less fun, the first reason should be discarded and that second reason is just plain wrong. Some weapons need carrier to be sustainable. When new content happens helios makes completing the codex so much easier. Taxon is mesa's best friend because of the shields combined with mesa's shatter shield makes her even more tanky.

Sentinels have a purpose AND vacuum.

Pets only have their purpose.

At any rate, DE said we'll end up getting companions 2.0 which will bring the purpose of all companions up to the same level and thus calm DE's fears of sentinels going unused if univac happens.

[(PSN)Xaeryk]

12 hours ago, HerpDerpy said:

Pros:

1. Saves buttloads of time

2. much less micromanagement

3. gives people a lot more freedom in terms of what companions they want to use

4. makes resource farming much easier and you dont have to worry about missing anything

5. you don't have to worry about looking around for amo/ energy if you run out because it will just get sucked up into you

Cons:

1.???

 

Id love to see a valid argument from your side of not having it that has some relevance to player experience other than "just don't be lazy" which is no argument at all.

 

Cons.

1. Hipsters would have nothing to get mad about.

2. New players would have a easier time getting resources and are less likely to cash shop....to a small degree that would still be noticable in their bottomline.

3. I GOT TO MR 25 WITHOUT IT AND SO SHOULD YOU! Founders pack powers activate! Shape of special snowflake.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)Vindras

[Umbrasi]

Universal vacuum probably wont happen for 1 obvious reason. We all know that whoever prefers sentinel uses carrier or helios. second one is becoming useless after u get some codex stuff, and you dont need ammo conversion from carrier on MANY weapons. so its use is very narrow.
if pets had universal vacuum then every reasonable player would almost always use pets and sentinels would be pretty much ignored. Because Pets are overall FAR better (well maybe not kubrows but kavats are for sure). and their only downside to compensate is lack of vacuum

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It's not needed, it's as simple as that.

Neither is 95% of the stuff we have in-game. We don't NEED another shotgun. We don't NEED another rifle. We don't NEED another sword & board. We don't NEED another Warframe. We don't, strictly speaking, need anything at all beyond one frame and one weapon. Yet we still get it, because people want it.

If people want a universal vacuum, why can't they have it? Make it an optional feature so that it can be turned on or off, thus satisfying everyone and not forcing one party into something they don't like. If the community can convince DE to make certain financial decisions (Prime Accessory packs), what is the harm in asking for a simple toggable feature that really doesn't have any negative affect at all?

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Collecting all the loot in an area isn't so fundamental to the game's progression like attacking or moving.

Warframe is a loot based game. Collecting resources and mods is as just as fundamental as the movement system.

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

As a player progresses, the importance of collected loot decreases until it's only important for a few selected mods or resources they want to make sure they'll get.

So that suddenly means vets should stop collecting old loot/resources and just ignore it? You do know that old loot can be very useful for credit farming.

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It's overall better for the economy to have players collect less superfluous loot.

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Same goes for the psychological aspect. It's more rewarding to walk to loot compared to have it brought to you.

"It's more rewarding to physically walk over the loot instead of walking near it."

This really does show how thin the excuses are for not having a universal vacuum.

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

You have the option to use any sentinel of your choosing.

The thing is; I do not like Sentinels and neither do a lot of people. I really like Vacuum, but the fact that it's exclusive to one pet type, is very counter-intuitive for me. I've always loved running with a kavat or kubrow, as they have a ton more survivability than the Sentinels. So by giving the warframes a passive vacuum, DE would be opening up the choice for you to play with any pet you wished, without making you feel as if you are loosing out.

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Univac isn't a necessity, not from a loot standpoint, and not from a gameplay standpoint.

So like I said; if it's not that big of a deal, why would it matter if a toggable univac was implemented? 

12 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Take what DE has given you, ask for improvements to Chesa companions, but do not pretend that not having a mod that satisfies people's OCD equipped is a gamebreaking drawback.

This is a very arrogant part of the post. To some people, it is a game-breaking drawback. For me it is not, but it certainly lowers my enjoyment of the game since I personally like to focus more on not dying than scouting the floors looking for "appropriate loot". 

Some people have moments they consider "game-breaking". I had a clan mate who stopped playing WF when the Synoid Gammacor received it's nerf beating because that was his favourite weapon. I also have a friend who left the game soon after he joined because he discovered Excalibur Prime was permanently exclusive and since he's an enthusiastic collector and 100% completionist, that was a big game breaker for him. Different people have different things that break a game for them. So stop acting like you know it all.

The bottom line is that an optional universal vacuum would literally be no trouble for anyone in anyway, DE and players alike. Through this myriad of weak/strange excuses, the fact remains that an optional univac is something that has been requested for a very long time. One day it will come and all of these ridiculous arguments against it will be for nothing.

I don't know why people seem so adamant that univac shouldn't be in the game. If it's an optional feature like Color Correction, what is the harm?

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, Nation_X said:

Vacuum is for the lazy

Convenient is the word. Using high powered weapons to kill enemies without batting an eye is lazy, but it's convenient. Using Hydroid's puddle is lazy, but it's convenient. Using Mesa's Peacemaker is lazy, but it's convenient. Sitting around playing video games, is lazy.

[Xgomme]

Il y a 13 heures, HerpDerpy a dit :

Pros:

1. Saves buttloads of time

2. much less micromanagement

3. gives people a lot more freedom in terms of what companions they want to use

4. makes resource farming much easier and you dont have to worry about missing anything

5. you don't have to worry about looking around for amo/ energy if you run out because it will just get sucked up into you

Cons:

1.???

 

Id love to see a valid argument from your side of not having it that has some relevance to player experience other than "just don't be lazy" which is no argument at all.

 

Energy orbs, with vacuum you waste most of them using them instantly, when you can take them only when needed without a vacuum.

If Vacuum is not universal it's mostly because of this kind of optimisations, sucking all the ressources is not the most efficient when ammos/energy/hp drops are in the mix

 

Bu yep, pets should have a vacuum too, basically : take out Chesa's unique precept and give it to all the pets, rework Chesa, done

Edited February 19, 2018 by Xgomme

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Xgomme said:

Energy orbs, with vacuum you waste most of them using them instantly, when you can take them only when needed without a vacuum.

If Vacuum is not universal it's mostly because of this kind of optimisations, sucking all the ressources is not the most efficient when ammos/energy/hp drops are in the mix

Another thin excuse that doesn't address why having an optional universal vacuum is bad thing.