Eidolons Weaknesses

[dwqrf]

I understand that there is diffrents units in the game, and that GENERALLY, puncture and rad melt grineer, impact and gaz rekt corpus, and slash and corro destroy infested.

I understand that the Tridolon are the same one big family, and when you go on a hunt, you don't bother thinking further than full crit punct/cold radiation.

But what if Each Eidolon had his own weakness ? Like Puncture/Rad for Teralyst ; Slash/Corro for Gantulyst ; and Impact/Gaz for Hydrolyst ?

That would make runs harder, as you'd have to think far enough about how to mod your weapon. If you want to have a easy Hydrolyst fight with a perfect build, maybe you should struggle a little on gantulyst and teralyst ?

Just throwing some ideas.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Variety is the spice of life.

Although any team having an easy go of Eid3 will likely have an easy time with Eid1 and 2 - so it would just make it harder for the pub scrubs.  randomly formed teams/recruiting

Not that theres anything wrong with that 

[ZodiacShinryu]

I mean I guess it might make the fights last a bit longer but I think it would just shift the meta. Teralyst is super simple in comparison to his brothers and just a full crit without radiation with normal set ups probably wouldn't derail him too hard.

That being said the meta is pretty much Trinity, Harrow, Volt, [buffer] usually Chroma but could also be Octavia, Rhino or Oberon. With this change you could just swap Harrow for Oberon because they can both easily protect the group from magnetics. Oberon can use Smite Infusion on his DPS members to make short work of Teralyst weakness. The two other DPS can each set their weapons to Corrosive or Gas. Since they can both share the benefits of their buffs, their dominance on damage just depends on the target at the time. In the end nothing really changes other than adding a few needless hoops.

[dwqrf]

Nothing changes except being able to kill them really quick, as the speed run it is, become much more of a team effort !

[Peter]

Eidolon is only fast if you have veterans on your party, if DE do this change will be impossible to do public hunts.

[dwqrf]

If these changes happen, you don't make it difficult, you just make it so it's not One single player one shooting every limb. It has to be a team effort.

Right now, it's possible to do 4x3 Capture, with Eidolon shield being hit once before being depleted (void strike + unairu wisp+volt), and limb being one shooted by a no-range chroma+volt. It's a total of 12 Eidolons in 50 minutes ; with only two player doing the kills, and two other supports spamming a single spell, giving wisp and holding hand with lures. Is that supposed to be end game ?

With these changes, Chroma would have to have more range for his allies to benefit and to themselves do limb damage too.

Yes, somehow, public hunt are a thing, but public hunt are mostly eidolons kills and people clowning around with no idea what to do (you have to learn somehow, and hunt and kill with randoms are perfect for it).

But Hydrolyst Capture speed run are something else; it's the end game people believed they were wishing for, and it turns out to be way easier than it seemed.

Edited February 28, 2018 by dwqrf

[(PSN)Crixus044]

This won't change difficulty. First off, only reason puncture and radiation is good is because of the health types and armor types. Warframe has 2 armor types ferrite and alloy. Alloy is the one eidolons have which is 75% weak to radiation and 15% weak to puncture. But remember, cold has a 25% weakness too, so it's also good. If you want corrosive vulnerabiltiy, you'll need ferrite and you'll get 75% weakness to corrosive, but 50% weakness to puncture and 25% to toxin, so in reality, you'll be nerfing the eidolons even more. Variety would only be in the damage type. Build would not change, performance would not change, and players would not change, so while in concept, it's a wonderful idea, in practice, it is not possible nor needed.

[dwqrf]

It doesnt have to be armor. Ediolon's limbs can be of Cloned Flesh, Corpus Flesh, Mechanic, Sinew, etc.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 minute ago, dwqrf said:

It doesnt have to be armor. Ediolon's limbs can be of Cloned Flesh, Corpus Flesh, Mechanic, Sinew, etc.

The difference will be minimal. Remember, armor modifiers give you a damage bonus AND some armor ignore, so if you have an enemy with cloned flesh and allow armor like a bombard, viral would give you +75% damage from health weakness and radiation would give you +75% damage from armor weakness, but even then, Radiation would be stronger because radiation ignore 75% of allow armor.
All you'll be doing is making some eidolons weaker than others, but all would be weakest to radiation. Also you'll be breaking consistency of sentient health types. All sentients have robotics. It makes no logical sense for a robot to have cloned flesh, a health type exclusive to grineer since they clone flesh lore wise. I personally would love to see more of the sinew health type since I find it criminally underused, but even then Sinew is weak to...wait for it...radiation by 50%, which is more than robotics, so thematically speaking, the only ones that make sense on eidlolons are robotics and object. Object doesn't take crit damage, so that's out of the question lol

[dwqrf]

I don't think health type matter as long as any armor in Up. And as Eidolons are immune to status (corrosive), their health type is actually irrelevant. They could have NO ARMOR and be of a different health type, with adjusted health pool.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

12 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I don't think health type matter as long as any armor in Up. And as Eidolons are immune to status (corrosive), their health type is actually irrelevant. They could have NO ARMOR and be of a different health type, with adjusted health pool.

This is incorrect
Let me explain exactly how it works. Armor types have weaknesses. All armor does is reduce damage taken. Damage types of the armor's weakness ignore a certain amount of armor while also getting a damage boost. The damage that was reduced by armor then calculates the health type of the enemies (flesh. robotics, etc.) and boosts damage by the health type's weakness, so both are important.
This can be tested by grabbing a weapon modded for magnetic damage against a heavy gunner, then mod for viral against that heavy gunner. The viral damage will get boosted since the heavy gunner has cloned flesh, even though she has ferrite armor on, while the magnetic damage, which sits at no gain or loss will be standard.

EDIT: Here's an example. An enemy with 300 ferrite armor has a 50% damage reduction to her cloned flesh. 100 magnetic damage would deal 50 damage to her. 100 viral damage would deal 87.5 damage (would show 88 in game). 100 Corrosive damage would deal 140 damage.

Edited February 28, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[dwqrf]

I have been asking that around for quite a while and I haven't gotten a proper respond. I'll take your statement as true, and accept being wrong. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Still, the point of the topic then stay the same, as you could change Helath type and completely remove armor, making it more resilient to certain damage type, adjusting the health poool accordingly, which should be easy, as Eidolon dont change level and therefor, dont scale armor in anyway, having then a flat % damage reduction ; which could be converted into simply more health of any other type.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

6 hours ago, dwqrf said:

I have been asking that around for quite a while and I haven't gotten a proper respond. I'll take your statement as true, and accept being wrong. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Still, the point of the topic then stay the same, as you could change Helath type and completely remove armor, making it more resilient to certain damage type, adjusting the health poool accordingly, which should be easy, as Eidolon dont change level and therefor, dont scale armor in anyway, having then a flat % damage reduction ; which could be converted into simply more health of any other type.

I can understand and agree. I see no point in having armor on an enemy that doesn't scale. The Equivalent EHp of the eidolon at level 50 is 2,604,913, yet with the armoris has, the actual EHp against radiation damage is around 500k. If DE would simply remove the armor, increase the base health to 80,000, (6x current health), we would it pretty at 2.6 mill EHp, which is where he should be, with the lowest of his EHp (against electricity) would be 1.73 million EHp. Or, like Vay Hek, his health type can be neutral with a forced weakness depending on his type.

[KIDdAe]

With that change it will simply hit pub groups. This will be just RNG "Oh how did you mod your weapons guyz ?". Premade may fall to 3x3 but they will have correct weapons for each eidolon.

I would prefer a specific type for Eidolon, that don't have any weakness (nor particular resistance).

This will nerf heavy radiation weapons and won't impact too much public game.