Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

FoxFX

[Ability Execution Discussion] Toggle Attacks, How Warframe Abilities Can Benefit From Them {Some talk on Ember with This}

Recommended Posts

LINK TO THE FAN CONCEPT EXPLAINING FURTHER ON THIS

 

INTRODUCTION

I want to draw some attention to an "ABILITY STYLE" that I feel could be a good basis for some suggestions on certain Warframe abilities. When I mean "ABILITY STYLES," I mean how certain Warframe abilities are activated/executed. Such examples are "Instant Castings" like Volt's Shock, "Ability Switching" like Ivara's Quiver, and "Holding Charges" like Hydroid's Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm. This time, I want to highlight on what "Toggle Attacks" are and how some Warframe Abilities can benefit changes based on the application of it.

 

TOGGLE ATTACKS

  • Toggle Attacks are usually applied to Warframe Powers that are categorized as Damage Type Abilities See here how Warframe Powers are categorized and how the Corpus Combas block them

  • [WHEN TOGGLED ON] The Ability drains Energy but grants the Warframe itself a buff(s) which would stack/remains while the toggle is on. Toggling on could also offer other buffs when a specific condition is triggered or could create a specific aura. Thematically, toggling on the ability is meant to perceive the Warframe storing power for a very devastating attack. The longer the ability is stored, the stronger the attack would be once released.

  • [When TOGGLED OFF] The Ability's attack is unleashed and it would consume a buff or stacks of a buff it was collecting while toggled on. Doing so would mean the loss of the passive buffs gained when the ability is toggled on, but this would result in a trade-off for a devastating attack.

  • [When DOWNED while TOGGLED ON] The Ability could auto-activate upon the Warframe being downed as a bit of a surprise gimmick.

 

CURRENT TOGGLE ATTACKS

  • Equinox's Mend and Maim: Store Healing Points/Damage Points everytime enemies within the aura's range are killed while toggled on. Unleashes a large Healing Pulse or Damaging Attack once Toggled on
  • Mesa's Ballistic Battery: Stores buffs each time Mesa deals damage to enemies. Toggles off to make the next attack fire a Ballistic energy bolt at the enemy.
  • Chroma's Spectral Stream Augment Afterburn: Toggled on deals continuous damage to enemies in front and for each second active, stores a buff. Toggling off releases a projectile which deals damage based on the duration Spectral Stream was active.
  • Nezha's Firewalker Augment Pyrocastic Flow: Toggled on stacks a buff which takes in damage done by the trails. Toggling off allows Nezha to unleash a powerful attack in front of itself dealig damage based on the accumulation of stacks.

 

EXAMPLES OF WARFRAME ABILITIES THAT COULD BE TOGGLE ATTACKS

EMBER

  • World on Fire
    • [TOGGLED ON]: Enters a state which improves the effectiveness of Ember's Fireball and Fire Blast damage. Each time the two abilities are activated, they stack a {Thermal} buff to Ember granting + Heat Damage to the next Fireball or Fire Blast. There is also a percentage indicator which shows that the Energy required to activate Fireball and Fire Blast will increase if the percentage reaches 100%. Toggling on will not drain Energy
    • [TOGGLED OFF]: Unleashes the World on Fire attack (although stationary). This ability will Toggle Off if Ember is downed while World on Fire is toggled on.

 

ZEPHYR

  •  Air Burst
    • [TOGGLED ON]: Stacks a buff overtime and while Zephyr is in mid air and i motion. Passively grants Zephyr infinite double jumping while toggled on
    • [TOGGLED OFF]: Air Burst unleashes its attack and can also come with increased range if the toggle is held on long enough before release.

 

NEKROS

  •  Soul Punch
    • [TOGGLED ON]: While on, it stacks a buff for each enemy killed nearby Nekros. (A maximum amount of this stack can be set in)
    • [TOGGLED OFF]: Unleashes the attack. If enough stacks are collected, the ability could cause the affected target to force drop a Health Orb.

 

CONCLUDING

This here is merely something I feel could be looked into to see how certain Warframe attack abilities could be reworked as Toggle Attacks. As of now, I have seen a few complaints on the execution of existing Toggle Attacks. I feel the use of this ability execution type could make for some interesting changes for certain Warframes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to question which Warframe Ability you can think of that could be changed with this type of ability execution and explain why if you can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I'd like to question which Warframe Ability you can think of that could be changed with this type of ability execution and explain why if you can.

It would result in problems such as extremely high energy drain. Imagine Toxic Lash draining x energy/second or per hit instead of lasting for x seconds after activation, it would make your life a living hell. Toggled abilities are almost always (with a possible exception of invisibility) inferior if they are not exalted weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CaptainZgred said:

It would result in problems such as extremely high energy drain. Imagine Toxic Lash draining x energy/second or per hit instead of lasting for x seconds after activation, it would make your life a living hell. Toggled abilities are almost always (with a possible exception of invisibility) inferior if they are not exalted weapons.

There are examples of Toggle Attacks that don't have such energy drains much like Mesa's Ballistic Battery which only requires to toggle on and doesn't drain energy if this is what you are worried about.

We also now have many ways to regenerate Energy with the help of Focus and Arcanes.

I also don't see much harm in your example with the Toxic Lash draining energy per hit since Ivara's Artemis Box has a similar function to it. The drain in that ability is extremely manageable as toggling on the ability Artemis Bow doesn't drain Energy overtime nor prevent collecting Energy from Orbs, Aura Mod Energy Siphon, or from Zenurik's Energizing Dash.

There is also abilities like Equinox's Pacify and Provoke (which is more of a "Toggle CC") that has no restrictions on how Equinox can gain energy while the ability is toggled on.

 

This thread is not to say that EVERY ability should be reworked with this specific execution, this thread is to explore and see what abilities out there could be altered with this execution and to what extent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

 

We also now have many ways to regenerate Energy with the help of Focus and Arcanes.

Zenurik is probably the only reliable way of regenerating energy with Rage and/or Hunter Adrenaline being the second. Arcane Energize is extremely rare and I think it will remain very rare for a pretty long time.

5 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I also don't see much harm in your example with the Toxic Lash draining energy per hit since Ivara's Artemis Box has a similar function to it. 

Artemis Bow is a weapon, Toxic Lash is a buff to your melee. Considering the fact that most of good and balanced Saryn builds involve Blind Rage, I honestly can't see how toggled Toxic Lash would result in anything good if you take into account that you can hit multiple enemies way over a hundred times before the duration on that thing runs out. Even if the energy drain was capped at 1 it would still result in much higher energy drain than it is now.

And one of the features of that ability is that it restores 2 energy for every spore popped on the target.

12 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

collecting Energy from Orbs, Aura Mod Energy Siphon, or from Zenurik's Energizing Dash.

The amount of energy I can cycle through in 1 minute while playing Saryn on higher levels would take 55 minutes for Energy Siphon to restore. That's also the reason why Energizing Dash can carry you only so far into the higher ranks.

Orbs on the other hand are pretty nice, however I'd like to see them replaced by something like a guaranteed energy restore after killing an enemy which would orbit around the amount of energy randomly dropping orbs can restore but much more reliably.

20 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

This thread is not to say that EVERY ability should be reworked with this specific execution, this thread is to explore and see what abilities out there could be altered with this execution and to what extent.

Nova's 4 could be reworked to have range based on an actual Power Range instead of Power Duration and to be toggled with an energy drain per second and not per enemy entering the range (which would benefit Antimatter Drop too)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CaptainZgred said:

Zenurik is probably the only reliable way of regenerating energy with Rage and/or Hunter Adrenaline being the second. Arcane Energize is extremely rare and I think it will remain very rare for a pretty long time.

Artemis Bow is a weapon, Toxic Lash is a buff to your melee. Considering the fact that most of good and balanced Saryn builds involve Blind Rage, I honestly can't see how toggled Toxic Lash would result in anything good if you take into account that you can hit multiple enemies way over a hundred times before the duration on that thing runs out. Even if the energy drain was capped at 1 it would still result in much higher energy drain than it is now.

And one of the features of that ability is that it restores 2 energy for every spore popped on the target.

The amount of energy I can cycle through in 1 minute while playing Saryn on higher levels would take 55 minutes for Energy Siphon to restore. That's also the reason why Energizing Dash can carry you only so far into the higher ranks.

Orbs on the other hand are pretty nice, however I'd like to see them replaced by something like a guaranteed energy restore after killing an enemy which would orbit around the amount of energy randomly dropping orbs can restore but much more reliably.

Nova's 4 could be reworked to have range based on an actual Power Range instead of Power Duration and to be toggled with an energy drain per second and not per enemy entering the range (which would benefit Antimatter Drop too)

 

There are also Energy Restore Packs available for Energy Regeneration.

I've only used Artemis Bow as an example of how the Energy Cost management could be carried out with Toggle Attacks. I wouldn't categorize Toxic Lash as a Toggle Attack, but ore of a "Toggle Buff." since it only adds Toxin damage to your melee weapon.

What I am basically referring to are abilities that actually deal direct damage and that are categorized as Damage Type Abilities. See here how Warframe Powers are categorized and how the Corpus Combas block them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2018 at 9:39 AM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

It's an interesting concept. It reminds of me of Signets in Guild Wars 2, in a way.

I have played Guild Wars 2 long ago, though not too much to remember how Signets function. I saw the execution of abilities like Mesa's Ballistic Battery and Equinox's Mend & Maim and thought of how some abilities in Warframe could benefit a change if their execution was similar.

 

This also brings to some questions concerning how Ember is being handled about the intent of her changes. I was thinking of using this mechanic as a way to rework her kit to be the galss-cannon she needs to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I have played Guild Wars 2 long ago, though not too much to remember how Signets function. I saw the execution of abilities like Mesa's Ballistic Battery and Equinox's Mend & Maim and thought of how some abilities in Warframe could benefit a change if their execution was similar.

 

This also brings to some questions concerning how Ember is being handled about the intent of her changes. I was thinking of using this mechanic as a way to rework her kit to be the galss-cannon she needs to be.

Signets basically provided a passive effect as long as they weren't on cooldown, but you were able to click them to use an activated ability (self heal, damage, knockdown, something like that) then go on cooldown. Then you'd have to wait for it to come off cooldown before the passive would come up again. I know DE did away with cooldowns, but in that particular situation it would be warranted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Dont nerf Soul Punch/Tenno Space Program of the Soul...

Well it isn't a nerf if you look closely at the example:

 

If Soul Punch toggles on, it allows the ability to count for each enemy killed within a set range adding to the damage Soul Punch does once the ability is released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/22/2018 at 8:08 AM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Signets basically provided a passive effect as long as they weren't on cooldown, but you were able to click them to use an activated ability (self heal, damage, knockdown, something like that) then go on cooldown. Then you'd have to wait for it to come off cooldown before the passive would come up again. I know DE did away with cooldowns, but in that particular situation it would be warranted.

Well, we do have one ability with cooldown-like effect to it (example is Oberon's Renewal Augment 'Phoenix Renewal'). But then again, the community is highly against abilities with such a restriction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had some time to think about a second variant of [Toggle Attack] World on Fire:

 

On 2/19/2018 at 12:08 AM, FoxFX said:

EMBER

  • World on Fire
    • [TOGGLED ON]: Enters a state which improves the effectiveness of Ember's Fireball and Fire Blast damage. Each time the two abilities are activated, they stack a {Thermal} buff to Ember granting + Heat Damage to the next Fireball or Fire Blast. There is also a percentage indicator which shows that the Energy required to activate Fireball and Fire Blast will increase if the percentage reaches 100%. Toggling on will not drain Energy
    • [TOGGLED OFF]: Unleashes the World on Fire attack (although stationary). This ability will Toggle Off if Ember is downed while World on Fire is toggled on.

EMBER

  • World on Fire {2nd Variant}
    • [TOGGLED ON]: Enters a state which improves the effectiveness of Ember's Heat attack's striking power. Toggling on consumes a stacking buff which also determines the damage World on Fire will do:
      • Stacks a {Thermal} buff each second which increases base damage of Fireball and Fire Blast damage by +XXX
      • While toggled on, there is no energy drain, but it increases the Energy cost of Fireball and Fire Blast by +XX
      • Each casting of Fireball and Fire Blast while this ability is active adds +XX {Thermal}
    • [TOGGLED OFF]: Unleashes the World on Fire attack (although stationary) which cause Ember to cause eruptions around herself dealing XXXX damage + XXX * {Thermal}. This ability will Toggle Off if Ember is downed while World on Fire is toggled on.

 

I figured a more elaborate way of Ember's WoF toggle attack to increase each ability's base damage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there any comments that would like to be made on this article on this specific ability execution style? I still feel that we can make some interesting Ability changes to some Warframes with this specific playstyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites