Ivara's Prowl has been disassembled and no longer has any perks that make it worth the many drawbacks.

[TheLexiConArtist]

So how about we take a nice long look at the pros and cons of the ability and actually balance the books a bit. Please. Ivara is practically a one-and-a-half-trick pony by this point, and it's a shame.

 

Prowl

Pros:

• Consistent Invisibility while energy permits (channeled)
• Headshot damage is multiplied by 1+(0.4 * Power Strength)
• Steals additional loot from a single target over (2.5 / Power Duration) seconds.
• Augment allows Ivara to pass through some security barriers
  • Notably some Spy security is not subject to this immunity and will still trigger (Sealab tower-vault laser 'platform', generic Grineer vault with motion detectors sweeping over console)

Cons:

• Channeled nature removes all sources of energy regeneration, functionally hard-limiting possible uptime in most use cases where energy pickups are not abundant
  • Typically requires Arcane Energise sets to circumvent enough to allow 'true permanence'
• Invisibility is briefly broken upon usage of nonsilenced weapon
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
  • Does not require re-casting
• Additional energy is drained while moving
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
• Additional energy is drained for every tick of damage taken
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
  • Includes rapid-tick damage sources e.g. Arc Traps
  • Includes aura damage e.g. Eximi
  • Includes status proc damage (which may also be stacked ticks e.g. slash, toxin)
• Additional energy is drained for every melee hit (per target, not per swing)
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
  • This also applies to many finishers, which deal multiple hits of damage and trigger this on each
• Stealing has a chance to fail at <100% Power Strength
  • Is now listed in the ability pane, but wasn't for a long time!
• Cannot steal from High-Value Targets (bosses, minibosses and some special enemies)
• Cannot steal from a target that has already been stolen from by an allied Ivara
• Player is significantly slowed whilst Prowling
  • Except on Ziplines
  • Augment also assuages this slow somewhat
• Sprinting and Bullet Jumping causes loss of invisibility
  • Requires additional energy expenditure to re-cast

 

Woo! That's a big list of drawbacks.

So we have 4 benefits in total for using this ability (1 from augment) and 10 drawbacks limiting its functionality (1 lessened by augment). Additionally, the major function of the ability (invisibility) has shared purpose with other abilities in Ivara's kit; Cloak Arrows in her Quiver and Navigator (while actively in use) also provide invisibility.

 

Compare this to the Warframe who is so much the poster child of the mechanic that his ability is literally named such; Loki's Invisibility provides the following:

Invisibility

Pros

• Provides (12 * Power Duration) seconds of Invisibility for (50 * (2 - Power Efficiency)) energy
• Duration-based ability permits all sources of energy recovery while effect is ongoing
• Augment confers Silencing to all weapons (and tools _{mining laser}) fired while in Invisibility
  • Alleviates certain problem cases of crossfire

Cons

• Some enemies will attack near loud gunfire despite Invisibility status
  • Problem removed by augment
• Set duration necessitates re-casting, causing brief window of vulnerability

 

So yes, here we have fewer benefits... but 2:2 (unaugmented) is still much better than 3:10, and with the augment Loki boasts 2:1 in favour of benefits while Ivara is still lingering in the 4:9.5 area, still having mostly drawbacks hampering the actual usage.

And since Loki does not channel, he can persist indefinitely from Energy Siphon alone with enough Power Efficiency and Power Duration*. So no, the fact that Prowl is channeled is not beneficial in the slightest, in comparison.

_{* 180% duration is all you need at 175% efficiency. 21.6 seconds of Invis giving 0.6 energy/s from Siphon = 12.96, covering the 12.5 energy cost.}

 

Conclusion

Prowl has excessive limitations, and due to shared purpose with Cloak Arrows, fails to carve a strong enough niche within Ivara's kit to remain satisfying. Each of its benefits are directly intruded upon by the inherent drawbacks; Stealing is limited, can fail with reduced strength without any counterweighing benefit at higher strength and is only 'one-per-customer', the Invisibility is comparitively weak and more costly than alternatives, and the hindered mobility even makes the headshot bonus more difficult to properly utilise. Not even the augment is safe, as there are some notable instances of it failing to provide its sole function (besides easing the burden of slowness).

 

The ability is unsatisfying, overburdened and ill-fitting. It needs drastic improvements to make it appropriately rewarding and satisfying for the player.

[EDM774]

So you want a stealing reskin of Loki.

Ivara is just as good as she is now no changes needed. Seems to me you need to work on your energy efficiency and conservation tactics. 

 

p.s. since arcanes drop like hotcakes from eidolons, you'd get your hands on an arcane energize set quite quickly now.

[Fishyflakes]

Ivara's Prowl ability is pretty bad and your post makes a good point, but we're gonna need something cool to replace Prowl though.

25 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

So you want a stealing reskin of Loki.

Ivara is just as good as she is now no changes needed. Seems to me you need to work on your energy efficiency and conservation tactics. 

 

p.s. since arcanes drop like hotcakes from eidolons, you'd get your hands on an arcane energize set quite quickly now.

Man this poster is so boosted.

There are so many penalties received for actions done during Prowl and you think it's 100% fine and warranted?

Really? You think a 5% drop from a Hydrolyst will make Energize drop to 20p?

Edited February 19, 2018 by Fishyflakes
She's not trash, 1 is alright

[TheLexiConArtist]

15 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

So you want a stealing reskin of Loki.

Ivara is just as good as she is now no changes needed. Seems to me you need to work on your energy efficiency and conservation tactics. 

 

p.s. since arcanes drop like hotcakes from eidolons, you'd get your hands on an arcane energize set quite quickly now.

No, I want to not be punished six ways from Sunday for trying to use an ability.

Literally even pre-mobility-permitted Spectral Scream had less drawbacks for use. If it were possible to easily do so, there would be literally no point in using Prowl over sticking yourself with Cloak Arrows if you wanted to go around unseen.

 

Players shouldn't be forced to use a certain Arcane to patch an ability's terrible excess of burdens.

I didn't say every drawback should be removed, but it's just not appropriate as it is.

9 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

Ivara is pretty trash and your post makes a good point, but we're gonna need something cool to replace Prowl though.

I wouldn't say she's trash, Quiver carries hard though (and some niche uses for high strength Artemis Bow and Navigator).

But like I said above.. Sometimes I wish I could just turn the bow around and attach bubbles to myself instead.

 

I'm not sure it needs to be replaced. It could still be useful and satisfying, if it had around half the downsides trimmed off.

I'm thinking:

• Able to steal from all enemy types again (now one-per-customer applies) just the same as Desecration can.
• No more extra energy drain from melee strikes and damage taken (or at the very least for the latter, stop it from flooding out when eximi/procs/arc traps/fart clouds happen)
• Give something back in the mobility/speed department, or let loud guns not cause exposure for no reason.
• No 'dud steals' would be nice, since that's just a slap in the face. Or give a chance for higher-strength to steal more than one loot drop. Fair and equal treatment!

Edited February 19, 2018 by EDYinnit

[TeCoolTenno]

So I main Ivara, and as much as I'd love a buff to her, it should either be very minor, or not in her prowl at all. I also really disagree with the conclusion

Sure, there are 4 pros and 10 cons. But a some of those pros are so good they have twice the impact of some of these cons. The fact it is invisibility at all puts her above a lot of warframes that are always visible. Loki invisibility might beat Ivara prowl comparing the abilities one-to-one but imo the rest of Ivara's kit makes her both more wanted in squads and better in solo.

(anyways if anything it's loki that needs a nerf not Ivara needing a buff to prowl lol)

 

And more importantly, prowl isn't failing to carve a niche, or ill fitting. It is Ivara's niche and what the other abilities have to fit into, I have used prowl in literally every mission I've taken her, but there are missions where I did not use her 1, 2 and 4. Even if it's too weak to use, the inherent strength of invisibility lets it still be a useful ability

 

If I had to pick between reworking her cloak arrows and navigator, versus reworking her prowl, I would pick the former every time.

Also let us have a loadout of arrows to pick from for Ivara and mines for Vauban. Yeah, you can totally do that DE if you can put a button on octavia that leads to a music creator minigame. Gimme my shield stripping, armour stripping, grappling hook, projectile deflector, debuff cleansing and healing/shield restore arrows! Even lower the maximum arrows you can pick to 3 if need be. 

 

That being said I do want non-silenced weapons to function on Ivara. I don't enjoy being limited to bows entirely when I can just make one with 4. Allowing her to sprint during prowl, better interaction/removal of interaction with strength, and more lax energy restrictions (oo what if it only drained energy on steal instead of per second...) are all nice buffs, but I'd never want them if they mean no buffs to her other abilities.

 

Honestly with things like energy-on-damage though I'd much prefer to leave that on as it actually makes me feel like I'm prowling and not trying to rush constantly because I actually have to pay attention to my surroundings

Edited February 19, 2018 by TeCoolTenno

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

25 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Channeled nature removes all sources of energy regeneration, functionally hard-limiting possible uptime in most use cases where energy pickups are not abundant

Kill stuff & open crates - with an efficient build, TOGGLED (not channeled) invisibility without energize can last almost indefinitely.  And, on the rare occasion you find yourself almost  out of energy, shoot invis arrow into ground, stand in bubble and drop a pizza.

27 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Invisibility is briefly broken upon usage of nonsilenced weapon

• Not listed in Abilities pane
• Does not require re-casting

 

So there are silence mods. Sure, your weapon might do a touch less damage, but your invisible and can just stand there pumping lead.  And you get the damage buff to make up for it.

28 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

• Additional energy is drained while moving
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
• Additional energy is drained for every tick of damage taken
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
  • Includes rapid-tick damage sources e.g. Arc Traps
  • Includes aura damage e.g. Eximi
  • Includes status proc damage (which may also be stacked ticks e.g. slash, toxin)
• Additional energy is drained for every melee hit (per target, not per swing)
  • Not listed in Abilities pane
  • This also applies to many finishers, which deal multiple hits of damage and trigger this on each

Is this new? We don't have this on Console.

28 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Stealing has a chance to fail at <100% Power Strength

So does desecrate etc... its another roll of the dice.

 

29 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Cannot steal from High-Value Targets (bosses, minibosses and some special enemies)

so?

 

29 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Cannot steal from a target that has already been stolen from by an allied Ivara

So?

 

30 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Player is significantly slowed whilst Prowling

• Except on Ziplines
• Augment also assuages this slow somewhat

 

And still full speed rolling, and wall jumping. Basically infinite full speed invis would be broken (see old Naramon)

 

Changing the majority of these "drawbacks" would make her ridiculous.

[p3z1]

Let's not compare 1 skill against another BASED on number of positives and negatives against itself. Let us compare the WHOLE WARFRAME in general.

Loki - Supports allies by either reviving while invisible or disarming enemies.
Ivara - Supports allies by producing invisibility bubbles, producing loot, stunning enemies (by sleep), and reviving allies by being invisible.
Point goes to Ivara for supporting allies.

Loki - Deals damage by stealth multipliers and guns alone.
Ivara - Deals damage by stealth multipliers, artemis bow, guns (preferably silenced), and navigator. Navigator can be used to make interesting set-ups with projectile weapons. Ivara can also play safer from a distance due to these, if used well.
Point goes to Ivara for damage-dealing + safety.

Loki - Low energy costs, no channeling. Regenrates energy by energy siphon, energy orbs, among others.
Ivara - Toggled, though low energy cost. Regenerates energy only from pickups when prowl is active. Looting can roll energy orbs.
Point goes to Loki on energy if you get bad RNG. With good RNG, Ivara.
Argument - Energy plates, Arcanes.

Loki - Speedrun spy vaults.
Ivara - Slower runs, but can pass through scanners (calling bug on the rest stated, good point OP).
Point goes to Loki in spy runs if bugged Infiltrator augment. Fixed goes either way, depending on vaults mastery.

Loki - Can freely move while invisible
Ivara - Can only walk, do ziplines, roll, or rift strike.
Point goes to Loki on invisibility, hands down.

Loki - Psamathe, Neptune.
Ivara - Spy nodes across the starmap
Point goes to Loki in acquisition by a long shot.
Argument - Market by plat lels

Conclusion, Ivara is not useless compared to Loki. It all depends on how one uses the Warframe, or what the situation demand.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by p3z1
Fixed stuff

[TheLexiConArtist]

Just now, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

• Kill stuff & open crates - with an efficient build, TOGGLED (not channeled) invisibility without energize can last almost indefinitely.  And, on the rare occasion you find yourself almost  out of energy, shoot invis arrow into ground, stand in bubble and drop a pizza.
• So there are silence mods. Sure, your weapon might do a touch less damage, but your invisible and can just stand there pumping lead.  And you get the damage buff to make up for it.
• Is this new? We don't have this on Console.
• So does desecrate etc... its another roll of the dice.
• <Can't steal from MVP> so?
• <Can't steal with multiple Ivaras> So?
• And still full speed rolling, and wall jumping. Basically infinite full speed invis would be broken (see old Naramon)

• Energy orbs are unreliable (even while stealing - which takes time and is single target). Energy restores are circumvention of a problem, not a solution (you could argue why ever have ANY efficiency, because restores are available). Still a direct burden to the ability.
• Remains a burden to this particular ability. Compare other invisibility users (and her own cloakbubble) who have zero requirement to sacrifice a mod slot to become silenced, nor become exposed by using anything that is not silenced.
• It's not listed anywhere ingame, but it's always been part of the ability.
• Desecrate has an imperfect loot chance but is completely unaffected by Power Strength. If you had Overextended on Nekros and your Desecrate chance dropped from 40% to 16%, but Blind Rage didn't take it from 40% to 80%, would you not be unsatisfied?
• Other looting abilities generate extra loot from some targets that Prowl still fails to steal from (today I noticed this on the Silver Grove specters).
• This is a new drawback, and was the reason the previous bullet point was introduced in the past. Having both is just pointlessly excessive.
• Loki and Octavia provide infinite full speed invisibility, therefore it is a legitimate and significant additional drawback for Prowl.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Loki's Silent Augment does not silence explosions like Lenz while Ivara Cloak Arrow does.

Also you should have all of Loki's Invisibility cons listed.

Loki sets off all lasers, Magnetic Sensor barriers (was a larger issues when Magnetic zapped all energy to 0. Staying consistent with complaining of how ability/stats used to be on the game rather than focusing on feedback of current ability/stats)*

 

Comparison List is still flawed since Ivara has multiple other means of invisibility.  Cloak Arrow allows for refreshed duration based Invisibility with full movement and fully silencing of weapons; with added bonus of working with Energy Regeneration.(Not Channeled)

If you are wondering how you get Cloak Arrow landed on Ivara: using another Ivara invisibility ability called Navigator. Yes, it drains energy buy you just need it drained while you aim Cloak Arrow on to your-self and then enjoy benefits of having a Cloak Arrow that is basically the same thing as Hushed Invisibility Augment Loki Invisibility.

If you only want to complain about Prowl...that is fine but it is not Ivara's only means of Invisibility and thus it is hard to see this thread as being taken seriously.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi

[TeCoolTenno]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Loki's Silent Augment does not silence explosions like Lenz while Ivara Prowl does.

Also you should have all of Loki's Invisibility cons listed.

Loki sets off all lasers, Magnetic Sensor barriers (was a larger issues when Magnetic zapped all energy to 0. Staying consistent with complaining of how ability/stats used to be on the game rather than focusing on feedback of current ability/stats)*

 

Comparison List is still flawed since Ivara has multiple other means of invisibility.  Cloak Arrow allows for refreshed duration based Invisibility with full movement and fully silencing of weapons; with added bonus of working with Energy Regeneration.(Not Channeled)

If you are wondering how you get Cloak Arrow landed on Ivara: using another Ivara invisibility ability called Navigator. Yes, it drains energy buy you just need it drained while you aim Cloak Arrow on to your-self and then enjoy benefits of having a Cloak Arrow that is basically the same thing as Hushed Invisibility Augment Loki Invisibility.

If you only want to complain about Prowl...that is fine but it is not Ivara's only means of Invisibility and thus it is hard to see this thread as being taken seriously.

Actually I think that was changed. I remember trying multiple times to fly a cloak arrow into myself in simulacrum and it wouldn't work

[(PSN)MrNishi]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Kill stuff & open crates - with an efficient build, TOGGLED (not channeled) invisibility without energize can last almost indefinitely.  And, on the rare occasion you find yourself almost  out of energy, shoot invis arrow into ground, stand in bubble and drop a pizza.

So there are silence mods. Sure, your weapon might do a touch less damage, but your invisible and can just stand there pumping lead.  And you get the damage buff to make up for it.

Is this new? We don't have this on Console.

So does desecrate etc... its another roll of the dice.

 

so?

 

So?

 

And still full speed rolling, and wall jumping. Basically infinite full speed invis would be broken (see old Naramon)

 

Changing the majority of these "drawbacks" would make her ridiculous.

On PS4 we have the Ivara Prowl drain from using melee and taking damage.

@EDYinnit

Prowl dud steals:

If the attempt was unsuccessful, it will attempt to try again.

meaning enemy can be re-looted if loot-steal failed.

[Dragazer]

Just LOL @ Ivara being a "one trick pony"

Just LOL @ asking for prowl buffs.

Word of advise, run rakta dark dagger with augment. I'm assuming you are already running something with CL anyways for the sleep arrow finishers. The syndicate proc restores energy even with prowl channeling.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Dragazer

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

Let's not compare 1 skill against another BASED on number of positives and negatives against itself. Let us compare the WHOLE WARFRAME in general.

Loki - Supports allies by either reviving while invisible or disarming enemies.
Ivara - Supports allies by producing invisibility bubbles, producing loot, stunning enemies (by sleep), and reviving allies by being invisible.
Point goes to Ivara for supporting allies.

Loki - Deals damage by stealth multipliers and guns alone.
Ivara - Deals damage by stealth multipliers, artemis bow, guns (preferably silenced), and navigator. Navigator can be used to make interesting set-ups with projectile weapons. Ivara can also play safer from a distance due to these, if used well.
Point goes to Ivara for damage-dealing + safety.

Loki - Low energy costs, no channeling. Regenrates energy by energy siphon, energy orbs, among others.
Ivara - Channeling, though low energy cost. Regenerates energy only from pickups when prowl is active. Looting can roll energy orbs.
Point goes to Loki on energy if you get bad RNG. With good RNG, Ivara.
Argument - Energy plates.

Functions of other abilities do not invalidate the failure of one ability to provide a satisfying gameplay experience.

Also:

1. Quantify the benefits of huge-range disarm with infinite duration (and also confusion) compared to relatively smaller range and temporary Sleep which also breaks at 50% of current-health (numeric, so automatically fails in case of viral procs). Quantify loot production (single target, time taken, requirement to stick to target and target to remain alive).
2. Fair.
3. If Energy Siphon is able to cover Loki Invisibility, then additional looted energy orbs ALONE must cover >100% of Prowl costs to gain more energy with Ivara than Loki. (Not happening, without Energise). Difference is even higher if player is using Zenurik Focus (50% regeneration bonus per orb not available in Prowl). Energy restores apply to all warframes and are a symptomatic treatment, not a cure for the cause.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Loki's Silent Augment does not silence explosions like Lenz while Ivara Prowl does.

Also you should have all of Loki's Invisibility cons listed.

Loki sets off all lasers, Magnetic Sensor barriers (was a larger issues when Magnetic zapped all energy to 0. Staying consistent with complaining of how ability/stats used to be on the game rather than focusing on feedback of current ability/stats)*

 

If you only want to complain about Prowl...that is fine but it is not Ivara's only means of Invisibility and thus it is hard to see this thread as being taken seriously.

Those are not cons to Loki's Invisibility as they are not related to the function of the skill. This is why they are not in Ivara's cons list as well; the new feature of ignoring them is instead listed as a unique pro.

 

The fact that Ivara has other sources of invisibility actually causes the problems with Prowl to make it feel more unsatisfying to use, not less. If you might ever consider shooting a line of Cloak Arrows along your travel path instead of Prowling, that suggests that Prowling has a significant problem obstructing it from being the appropriate, satisfying option for mobile invisibility that it should be.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

12 minutes ago, TeCoolTenno said:

Actually I think that was changed. I remember trying multiple times to fly a cloak arrow into myself in simulacrum and it wouldn't work

Well won't do me any good to upload a video of it working on PS4, since you on PC are on a different build.

 

Cloak with or without Navigator still works for Sentinel/Companion to still have near Loki-quality Invisibility with Prowl as a back-up or to steal loot when a preferable target is nearby.

Game is more rewarding for using multiple Abilities at opportune times, rather than just relying on a single ability for doing everything. (In most cases)*

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Cloak with or without Navigator still works for Sentinel/Companion to still have near Loki-quality Invisibility with Prowl as a back-up or to steal loot when a preferable target is nearby.

For the record, navigating the cloak arrow back around onto myself is why I said "if it were easier" instead of "if I could" when referring to just self-bubbling instead of using prowl at all, on the chance it's still possible to stick self or Sentinel.

2 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Just LOL @ Ivara being a "one trick pony"

Just LOL @ asking for prowl buffs.

Word of advise, run rakta dark dagger with augment. I"m assuming you are already running something with CL anyways for the sleep arrow finishers. The syndicate proc restores energy even with prowl channeling.

That's an extra 65.75 energy occasionally and requires me to be in full-melee and using one specific weapon ever, yeah? Sounds like an absolute blast. Turns out that 65 energy isn't going to save me much trouble next time I have to roll by a couple Shock eximi, or god forbid a Venomous that leaves lingering ticks of extra on-damage drain just because I existed nearby once upon a time.

 

"unsatisfying to use" does not equal "absolutely useless" you know. I prowl often enough, but it's still a constant pain in the arse when I have to.

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, EDYinnit said:

Functions of other abilities do not invalidate the failure of one ability to provide a satisfying gameplay experience.

Also:

1. Quantify the benefits of huge-range disarm with infinite duration (and also confusion) compared to relatively smaller range and temporary Sleep which also breaks at 50% of current-health (numeric, so automatically fails in case of viral procs). Quantify loot production (single target, time taken, requirement to stick to target and target to remain alive).
2. Fair.
3. If Energy Siphon is able to cover Loki Invisibility, then additional looted energy orbs ALONE must cover >100% of Prowl costs to gain more energy with Ivara than Loki. (Not happening, without Energise). Difference is even higher if player is using Zenurik Focus (50% regeneration bonus per orb not available in Prowl). Energy restores apply to all warframes and are a symptomatic treatment, not a cure for the cause.

Meaning you are tunnel-vision-ing on Ivara's invisibility compared to loki's invisibility alone, making these 2 into one-trick pony builds. That's a bad direction from the start since Warframes are given 4 abilities for a reason.

1. The disarm trick doesn't work for melee units. One happy example are scorpions, and we all know what scorpions can do. Ever caught in a disarm animation while a powerfist is about to groundslam in a Lv80-100 sortie, instadeath. Disarm has a HELL of a slower cast time compared to Ivara's quiver.

3. Not exactly. Energy siphon only covers about 50-75% of the cost of a single invisibility cast (never got it to 100%, maybe I suck). As for Ivara, again, pointed out that efficiency will never be in her favor unless RNG smiles upon you. No, I don't have energize, so I'm not gonna argue with that one.

Energy plates, well, DE had a LOT of time to remove them from the game. Seems they're staying, and, no matter how bad it is, it's a bandaid that won't be addressed for a hell of a while.

Might sound like an @ss, but not every Warframe is tailored for every individual. I can't blame you for not being satisfied with Ivara, but some people don't find satisfaction is using other frames. Well, just to add in, I hate using Mesa, and she's great according to some Tenno here.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

14 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Functions of other abilities do not invalidate the failure of one ability to provide a satisfying gameplay experience.

Also:

1. Quantify the benefits of huge-range disarm with infinite duration (and also confusion) compared to relatively smaller range and temporary Sleep which also breaks at 50% of current-health (numeric, so automatically fails in case of viral procs). Quantify loot production (single target, time taken, requirement to stick to target and target to remain alive).
2. Fair.
3. If Energy Siphon is able to cover Loki Invisibility, then additional looted energy orbs ALONE must cover >100% of Prowl costs to gain more energy with Ivara than Loki. (Not happening, without Energise). Difference is even higher if player is using Zenurik Focus (50% regeneration bonus per orb not available in Prowl). Energy restores apply to all warframes and are a symptomatic treatment, not a cure for the cause.

Those are not cons to Loki's Invisibility as they are not related to the function of the skill. This is why they are not in Ivara's cons list as well; the new feature of ignoring them is instead listed as a unique pro.

 

The fact that Ivara has other sources of invisibility actually causes the problems with Prowl to make it feel more unsatisfying to use, not less. If you might ever consider shooting a line of Cloak Arrows along your travel path instead of Prowling, that suggests that Prowling has a significant problem obstructing it from being the appropriate, satisfying option for mobile invisibility that it should be.

I always saw Prowl as being for the loot steal affect synergy with Sleep Arrow or Dashwire through lasers sensors.

Cloaking my Sentinel always made more sense for mobile invisibility when speed rushing a mission.

Just as Cloak Arrow or Navigator is a better tool for stationary (Interception hold node) than using Prowl.

"suggests that Prowling has a significant problem obstructing it from being the appropriate, satisfying option for mobile invisibility that it should be"

Which means Prowl has a problem being the stationary & mobile invisibility ability.

Cloak Arrow does not allow me to additional loot, and neither does Navigator. Which is where Prowl fills the void. 

 

Ivara has 3.5 of 4 abilities that all can cloak her.

•Quiver Cloak Arrow

•Navigator

•Prowl

•Artemis Bow alt-fire which is Quiver cast, but does not count as activating 1st ability (for Activate 1st ability 5 times challenge)

She is an Invisibility based frame.

 

Edit:

Easier Cloak Arrow on Sentinel:

The above takes practice or skill (luck) but would separate a new Ivara player form a more veteran user. Meaning even though Ivara has early game access, she has a learning curve.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi
Quick Google Cloak Arrow hint

[ljmadruga]

In warframe, invisibility=invincibility.

The fact that Ivara can become invisible almost indefinitely has to come with a lot of drawbacks. It’s fine and balanced as it is.

Regarding eximi, just wipe them out with Artemis now.

Movement restrictions are there to encourage popping in and out of prowl. Doesn’t necessarily mean Ivara isn’t powerful without it.

The Looting aspect is really a bonus.

[robbybe01234]

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

 

Cons:

• Channeled nature removes all sources of energy regeneration, functionally hard-limiting possible uptime in most use cases where energy pickups are not

Get yourself a Rakta Cernos.  It's pretty cool.

[MystMan]

The weird thing I see in OP's post is as if Ivara is definted by Prowl alone. Her Prowl is supposed to have all those cons so she doesn't one-up Loki in that department. It's called balance. She excels at being a support frame. Her arrows are excellent help for teammates for those who know how/when to use them.

And as for the energy crisis part, you just shoot a cloak arrow in the floor in a quiet corner, stand in it and disable Prowl and drop an energy restore or two. Voilà!  No energy problems while remaining invisible.

Edited February 19, 2018 by MystMan

[Bouldershoulder]

41 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Loki - Can freely move while invisible
Ivara - Can only walk, do ziplines, roll, or rift strike.
Point goes to Loki on invisibility, hands down.

Try rolling mid-jumps

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Try rolling mid-jumps

Ivara can jump without breaking invisibility? That's new for me TBH. Thanks for the info

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Meaning you are tunnel-vision-ing on Ivara's invisibility compared to loki's invisibility alone, making these 2 into one-trick pony builds. That's a bad direction from the start since Warframes are given 4 abilities for a reason.

Might sound like an @ss, but not every Warframe is tailored for every individual. I can't blame you for not being satisfied with Ivara, but some people don't find satisfaction is using other frames. Well, just to add in, I hate using Mesa, and she's great according to some Tenno here.

It's more a case of considering the ability from without and within, and identifying the sheer mountain of burdens that it suffers unmatched by just about anything else on any warframe. There's nothing spectacular at all, and it's not even good as a "sum of its parts" because of the myriad deficits you have to operate around.

Having said that (and in regard to your second statement) Ivara is still my go-to Warframe. But for all her strengths, it doesn't stop it feeling cheap when I lose half my energy supply to the nearest Arc trap or have to make the call between Prowling and losing a ton of extra energy, or trying to survive in the open for a short while just because something left a status effect on me.

Just now, ljmadruga said:

In warframe, invisibility=invincibility.

The fact that Ivara can become invisible almost indefinitely has to come with a lot of drawbacks. It’s fine and balanced as it is.

Meanwhile, even if you don't count a Loki potentially needing only Siphon's regen... Octavia exists. Would you call "occasionally needs to crouch a couple of times to refresh a timer" on par with Ivara's drawbacks? Or even the 0.3 seconds Loki spends visible?

4 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

Get yourself a Rakta Cernos.  It's pretty cool.

65 energy occasionally, rad (still trying to treat a symptom not cure the problem's cause)

4 minutes ago, MystMan said:

And as for the energy crisis part, you just shoot a cloak arrow in the floor in a quiet corner, stand in it and disable Prowl and drop an energy restore or two. Voilà!  No energy problems while remaining invisible. Her arrows are excellent support for teammates.

sigh

1 minute ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Try rolling mid-jumps

That'll be the next nerf. Walking only. Final Destination (in a few hours)

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

Ivara can jump without breaking invisibility? That's new for me TBH. Thanks for the info

the only thing that breaks it is sprinting, sliding, or bullet jumping. Regular jumps and double jumps can be used just fine.

[Bouldershoulder]

1 hour ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Cloak Arrow on to your-self

_{Last I tried this (really a long time ago), the arrow passed straight through me. Maybe I was client back then and it was a bug.}

Edit2: Eh.. also tennoed by @TeCoolTenno I'm so slow..

24 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Ivara can jump without breaking invisibility? That's new for me TBH. Thanks for the info

_{Yes, unless you press sprint in the process. Any movement with sprint breaks invisibility (be it running or sliding). Jumpy-rolling essentially matches her movement speed with regular sprinting.}

Edit1: Tennoed by @(PS4)Boomstickman98

Edited February 19, 2018 by Bouldershoulder