LuckyCharm Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: Glaxion Mastery Rank 8 Damage 26 Freeze Fire Rate 12 Status Chance 34% Critical Chance 8% Reload Time 2.2secs Magazine 80/720 Capacity 24m Range .5 Ammo requirement Please revert the Reload speed time back to 1.5s. a .7s increase is rather massive considering the gun itself is already super underused, doesn't do much damage, still has a terrible crit chance, and is single target still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichouette Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Il y a 6 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit : Beam Weapon behavior was originally changed to help with performance but as we've made optimizations to the game over time, we can return them to their original status of hitscan weapons with pinpoint accurate, zero recoil death machines. Or at least we think we can. Does that mean these weapons now work with "status per shot" instead of "status per second" ? That's the big question everybody is asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 So... Why did you go and put the Cycron battery requirement on Flux Rifle, but not on Spectra, Quanta (Vandal), Convectrix, or any of the other (if I missed any) Corpus beam weapons? Some consistency would be nice. I'm also honestly disappointed that Ignis Wraith is becoming a straight upgrade rather than sidegrade to the Ignis; is this a precedent for all Vandal/Wraith variants shifting to upgrade status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkenmo Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 DE I implore you to please reconsider your base damages and fire rates across the weapons in order to increase diversity. These changes look like they'll be normalizing the fire rate of many continuous beam weapons, slow fire rates like Phage getting massively increased (from 1 to 12) & fast fire rates like Amprex's getting decreased (from 20 to 12), these proposed changes will only have a spread of fire rate 8 to 12 across all beam weapons. This homogenization will kill the Phage for me. The main thing that drew me to the Phage was that it was a neat spaghetti lightsaber with amazing ammo econonmy, that I could continue firing for prolonged periods of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osheroth Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Will this get more detailed at some point? The workshop for secondaries and primaries had statistics like "damage went from X to Y" and it was great Please 🙇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagaimo7 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 This is nice! I wanted to see some changes to melee too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnidentifiedCanid Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think more weapons should use the battery mechanic, the Gammacor Nukor and Convectrix being some of them. But parhaps a hybrid system is also possible? Like ammo pickups being halved and the weapon still recharging. As to say, being able to keep in the fight longer before you need to run off and recharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ODIN-Charizard_Prime Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 To everyone talking about Amprex "nerf", they buffed it's crit multiplier and it's base damage, and theoretically the ammo economy. Since everyone likes to complain before testing or doing the math, I'll do the math for you. Amprex Current stats with crit mods would read: 125% Critical Chance 4.4x Critical Multiplier 7.5 base damage 58.625 avg Damage Per Tick (only base damage and crits) New stats would read: 80% Critical Chance 4.84x Critical Multiplier 24 base damage 92.928 avg Damage Per Tick (only base damage and crits). That's an overall damage increase (58.5% increase in fact), even though it is getting less crits. You're welcome. ✌ PS: Synpase is most likely an increase as well, given that it received a hefty 2.7x Crit Multiplier from it's 2.0x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorerMaximus Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, -ODIN-Charizard_Prime said: To everyone talking about Amprex "nerf", they buffed it's crit multiplier and it's base damage, and theoretically the ammo economy. Since everyone likes to complain before testing or doing the math, I'll do the math for you. Amprex Current stats with crit mods would read: 125% Critical Chance 4.4x Critical Multiplier 7.5 base damage 58.625 avg Damage Per Tick (only base damage and crits) New stats would read: 80% Critical Chance 4.84x Critical Multiplier 24 base damage 92.928 avg Damage Per Tick (only base damage and crits). That's an overall damage increase (58.5% increase in fact), even though it is getting less crits. You're welcome. ✌ PS: Synpase is most likely an increase as well, given that it received a hefty 2.7x Crit Multiplier from it's 2.0x You're not taking into account the halved firerate. Honestly- the amprex rework feels more like a nerf than a rework; the opposite of what I thought was required of it. Amprex has a crappy range of 18m thats being reduced to 14m; and the feeling when seeing red numbers fly everywhere was immensely satisfying. I'm really dissapointed in what's come of this rework for the amprex; personally- I'd Increase the range from 18m to 25m Increase the CD to 2.2-2.4x. Keep everything else the same. If nothing else, I hope we see a primed ruinous reach or some equivalent for increasing the base range for these weapons; Amprex was already unviable on high level gamemodes, the Plains and most large map gamemodes; this just kicks it further down. Edit- I haven't done the math yet, but have you included the 2-3-4x multiplier going from <100 to >100 and >200% CC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DBR87 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I am assuming beam weapons will now be status per bullet instead of status per second, correct? Not exactly sure what that ".5 ammo per trace" means. But if status is dependant on ammo use then say Cyron has a 15% chance per .5 ammo used? Or is it a 60% status chance per 1 ammo used (30% status chance per .5 ammo used) Also, could we just not nerf the crit chance on Amprex and Synapse? I mean, I understand they got base damage increases to compensate but thanks to Hunter's Munitions, they scaled perfectly well in sorties because a maxed Point Strike put them at ~125% crit chance. I rather have those reliable crits instead of more base damage. I like how Synapse now does Corrosive instead of Electricity. That's cool. Even if you guys drop them down to 45% crit chance, I'd be happy. But the range limit means we have to close in more so than other weapons so I think they should keep their high crit chance. Consider how Lenz sits at 50% crit for a long range AoE weapon. Dread sits at 50% for a long range single target bow. And Paris Prime sits at 45%. And please reconsider some of these ranges. 12m? 14m? There are Warframe powers that hit further than that in an AoE at base. I really think no beam weapon should have a range less than 30 meters, MAYBE 25 meters depending on how powerful. Hell, maybe 25m is the minimum for secondary beam weapons and 30m is the minimum for Primary beam weapons. This goes back to engaging high level targets at close quarters. Beam weapons are going to have to compete for a slot against Rifles and shotguns. Shotguns dominate when it comes to damage and rifles dominate when it comes to range. Both categories have great critical and status weapons. I am not seeing anything in these buffs that will dethrone any top contenders. You could argue Beam weapons provide pinpoint accuracy and I would counter so does Sybaris, Latron, every sniper, Baza, Ferrox, Opticor, etc. At 9m range why would I even bother using Embolist when I can get a melee weapon that will do more damage with comparable status chance? Why use Embolist when you could use a Lesion? Lesion will give me more damage, it can reach 100% status chance, and it gives me better procs like Slash procs that Embolist can and it doesn't use ammo like Embolist. Seriously, 9m? I get that it's a gas gun but please, make the minimum for secondary beam weapons 25m so we don't have to be in melee range to actually use a gun--a long range weapon by nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyCharm Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, -ODIN-Charizard_Prime said: PS: Synpase is most likely an increase as well, given that it received a hefty 2.7x Crit Multiplier from it's 2.0x It also turns to corrosive so either way it's going to be more effective since you can build radiation or anything else on it now while still having corrosive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFm3m0 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 This looks OP AF. Love you DE, we really needed this <3 PS. im gonna put all my formas on the quanta vandal and the amprex <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaselslider Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: Amprex Mastery Rank 10 Damage 24 Electricity Fire Rate 12 Status Chance 22% Critical Chance 32% Critical Damage 2.2x 14m Range Magazine 100/700 Capacity .5 Ammo requirement NOOOOOO! MY CRIT CHANCE! oof ouch my crit chance lol. not sure if the extra base damage is gonna balance it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SopohG Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 WELP!!! Just turned my flux rifle riven into endo :( On the other hand seems like a good change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ODIN-Charizard_Prime Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, CorerMaximus said: You're not taking into account the halved firerate. Honestly- the amprex rework feels more like a nerf than a rework; the opposite of what I thought was required of it. Amprex has a crappy range of 18m thats being reduced to 14m; and the feeling when seeing red numbers fly everywhere was immensely satisfying. I'm really dissapointed in what's come of this rework for the amprex; personally- I'd Increase the range from 18m to 25m Increase the CD to 2.2-2.4x. Keep everything else the same. If nothing else, I hope we see a primed ruinous reach or some equivalent for increasing the base range for these weapons; Amprex was already unviable on high level gamemodes, the Plains and most large map gamemodes; this just kicks it further down. Edit- I'm not sure if you included the 2-3-4x multiplier going from <100 to >100 and >200% CC. I included the orange crits to the average damage per tick. Even with the fire rate reduction, it's literally sitting about the same DPS, if that were the case. Again, it's hard to say how these changes actually work in-game, as status on these weapons work completely different. The way I see it, it's less reliant on Hunter Munitions, as it can reliably strip armour much more easily. Not to mention, a buff to the ammo economy is welcome, less need to take carrier or an ammo mutation mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroia Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: Beam Weapon behavior was originally changed to help with performance but as we've made optimizations to the game over time, we can return them to their original status of hitscan weapons with pinpoint accurate, zero recoil death machines. Or at least we think we can. I don't expect a reply, but some points for consideration: * Please clarify: What do you see as the current issues which you are trying to address? * Is the damage listed the base 10% or the ramped up 100%? * To my lights, the current problems with Beam weapons are as follows: - Either poor damage output or ammo economy. - Status/sec chunks absolutely neuter beam weapons as status vehicles. Where a shotgun'll proc a dozen or more statuses at 100%, a beam weapon will require 400% (iirc) for guaranted proc application... up to 3 procs per second, multishot agnostic. - Further, while beam weapons are 'fine' for applying one-off procs, the damage chunking plays havoc with Corrosive proc application. 7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: per trace Sorry, I don't recall what this means. Does it mean that beam weapons are back to doing damage per 'frame'? If so, is this damage tied to the player's FPS? (See: Mesa's Peacemaker.) 7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: Cycron -> Puncture, Slash, Radiation What does this do to its current forced heat proc? 7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: Embolist 9m Range 1m Radius at beam end point Meaning it's getting the same treatment the Ignis got? I'll rerun my Glaxion Exterm test when this ships. Also, looking forward to seeing how the Amprex fares. Love me my lightning gun. Cheers, and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)VKPButcher Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Huh, well as I have a hard time wrapping my head around how this all works out guess I'll just have to wait and see. The range issue I do find slightly worrisome as I really don't want to see range mods being mandatory but again have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuHat0S_D Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Wow wow wow stop! Leave Ignis Wrath's status chance as 30%, but make a crit. mult. from 2.5x to 2.4x or even 2.3x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroraSonicBoom Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, (PS4)DBR87 said: I am assuming beam weapons will now be status per bullet instead of status per second, correct? Not exactly sure what that ".5 ammo per trace" means Pretty sure "trace" is just the beam weapon equivalent of pellet. Each beam weapon deals damage in discreet packets, and one of those packets is a trace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim22 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 please decrease the fire rate if the magazine is going from 195 to 80 :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganjou234 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Is this status/sec or just good ol' regular status chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson_S Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, ganjou234 said: Is this status/sec or just good ol' regular status chance? Status per second is being removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)purpleskullgamin Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 *sits here looking at my 130.3% damage, 29.8% damage to infested, 115.1% Critical chance riven* you know it's probably a good thing I didn't sell this like I wanted to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberhazard Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 seeing how I understand it, damages AND range will ramp up, and if the stats we have on paper are 10% of the 100% capacities of the weapons, then it's a huuuuuuuuge range buff that is welcomed very warmly. And if it's the case, the Ignis vfx need to change from the liquid fuel flamethrower, to napalm flamethrower. If so, and related to real world things, napalm can burn a victim for 6 minutes, so status duration could be increased as a first innate thing on the weapon, secondly, leaving a trail of fire on the ground, since napalm is more compact than liquid fuel, it burn longer and don't vanish before hitting the ground, using a similar thing as the Caustacyst charged attack. It will go perfectly with the cone radius that is only 3m toward the end, narrow radius is typical of napalm. It would make the weapon much more cooler imo ( no pun intented. Well, a little bit ). Personal opinion of course, with a bit of hopes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)big_eviljak Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Beam weapons need the arca scisco treatment. Otherwise, just keep as is. These changes aren't that great. Seem rushed and incomplete. Fyi arca scisco is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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