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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

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I thought the Amprex change was a nerf to its damage. It's not. It's actually a pretty substantial buff. Mind you, it's possible the overall beam changes will end up being a nerf to the Amprex (though at this point I doubt it, it looks pretty promising), and the range decrease on a weapon that already had range issues is heartbreaking, even assuming that they didn't touch the chain distance. They should really reconsider those range nerfs, especially in the context of Warframe gaining more open-world content. Also, I'm a little sad that I'll no longer be swimming in a sea of redcrits.

Here, have some poorly-formatted math. I basically worked my way through the Warframe wikia article on Critical Hits. It's like a 38% damage increase if you're using argon scope with a dual-stat cursed crit chance/damage riven and a 39% damage increase if you're not using argon scope but are using a dual-stat cursed crit chance/damage riven. My DPS numbers are not max DPS numbers; the imaginary amprex I'm doing the math for actually has two open slots. The second amprex has THREE open slots. I'm assuming a crit build because I figured those would be hit pretty hard if this turned out to be a nerf like I initially thought it was.

first off, various possible crit chances for the current amprex.
1.9965 crit chance with point strike and a max-roll 3-stat riven. that's guaranteed crits with a over 99% chance to get orange (2nd level) crits.
2.235 crit chance with point strike and a max-roll 2-stat riven. guaranteed orange crits with a 23.5% chance for red crits.
2.91 crit chance with point strike, max-roll 2-stat riven, and argon scope. guaranteed orange crits with a 91% chance for red crits.
2.6715 crit chance with point strike, max-roll 3-stat riven, and argon scope. guaranteed orange crits with a 67% chance for red crits.

Amprex is a multi-target weapon, not single target. You can be assumed to be using bladed rounds, because in a multi-target environment you're either getting kills or dead. If you're building crit, you also always rock vital sense. So 240% crit damage, minimum. Anyone using a crit amprex can be assumed to have a riven. Max 3-stat riven is 119.4% critical damage. Max 2-stat riven is 157.6% critical damage.

I'm assuming max-roll 2-stat riven, argon scope, bladed rounds, vital sense, point strike. that's +482% crit chance, or 5.82*base crit chance. +397.6% crit damage, or 4.976 * base crit multiplier.

For the current Amprex, that's 291% (2.91) crit chance and 9.952 modded crit multiplier.
total crit multiplier is crit level * (modded crit multiplier - 1) + 1. 91% of the time that will be 3 * (9.952-1) + 1 = 27.856. 9% of the time that will be 2 * (9.952-1) + 1 = 18.904. Nothing else interacts with crit level any more, so we can work out the average crit multiplier now. It turns out to be 27.05032.

Amprex is highly accurate inside its range, and being a crit dependent weapon you can be assumed to be aiming for the head. Headshot critical damage is damage * total crit multiplier * headshot multiplier (which is 2) * headcrit multiplier (which is also 2). Our amprex has two slots left, so we'll assume serration is in there. Amprex does 7.5 damage, serration is +165%, so it's now 19.875 damage. 19.875 * 27.05032 * 2 * 2 = 2150.50044.

Fire rate is 20, so a heavily crit-specced Amprex that's headshotting is doing 43,010 DPS.

Now to work through this with the same gun for the changed amprex.
Crit chance is 5.82*.32 = 186.24% (1.8624)
Modded crit multiplier is 10.9472
86.24% of the time the total crit multiplier is 20.8944. 13.76% of the time the total crit multiplier is 10.9472. Average total multiplier is 19.52566528. Damage is now 24, so damage with serration is 63.6. The range is even shorter than before, so hopefully you're still headshotting all the time. 63.6 * 19.52566528 * 2 * 2 = 4967.329247232. Fire rate is 12, so 59,607 DPS. Of course, you have to spin up to full damage over .8 second.

What if you weren't running the rather expensive argon scope and thus weren't getting the same sort of crit level?

The current Amprex has a 223.5% crit chance with no argon scope. 76.5% of the time your total crit multiplier is 18.904, and 23.5% of the time it's 27.856. Average total crit multiplier is 21.00772.  19.875 * 21.00772 * 2 * 2 * 20 = 33,402 DPS.

The new amprex has a 143.04% crit chance with the same riven and point strike but no argon scope. 43.04% of the time your total crit multiplier is 20.8944. 56.96% of the time your total crit multiplier is 10.9472. Average total crit multiplier is 15.22847488. 63.6 * 15.22847488 * 2 * 2 * 12 = 46,489 DPS

Edited by terribleperson
making it clear that after doing the math, I think it looks like the beam changes are a major improvement, and I no longer have a negative impression of them.
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Imvery curious to see how this changes will play out... I'm a bit disappointed with something here and there, like for instance the difference between synapse and Amprex... those numbers lead me to believe Amprex is still the king, even with her infested sister having a more powerful single target application...Also, a magazine nerf on Synapse, It feels like the very good "handling" she had is lost on top of that all, but I'm very unsure about what all the other changes really mean to my Synapse and Amprex, I am willing to sit and test them before raising any red flags. Looking forward to testing then all DE, HIT ME! 

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What does it all mean. I never played before beam weapons were changed from what they used to be. I just last night spent platinum on rushing and potatoing an amprex to make a hunter pet build. Hope it works okay after this change.:sad:

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7 hours ago, Stoner said:

Why nerf Amprex... 

As an Amprex user since the day it came out, it always had trouble hitting enemies because of the tiny range it has. Why nerf the thing it struggles in? Dont get me wrong, the damage buff is nice, but why nerf it so that it performs worse for whats its supposed to do? ie clearing enemies / being a CC gun. The crit and range nerfs are uncalled for.

I agree

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Yes please, I've been waiting for a Glaxion buff since the last one. 

But PLEASE change Combustion Beam so that it scales like Vulcan Blitz and Acid Shells.

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Just now, Potatrobot said:

Yes please, I've been waiting for a Glaxion buff since the last one. 

But PLEASE change Combustion Beam so that it scales like Vulcan Blitz and Acid Shells.

^THIS! Combustion Beam needs to scale!

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2 minutes ago, Diponegoro said:

shh, let it as is.

No nerf it, it's too good at one shotting Eidolons like chroma was too OP plz nerf

Pssstt for anyone who's un-aware I have no clue how strong opticor is nor do I care.

Edited by (PS4)purpleskullgamin
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il y a 1 minute, (PS4)purpleskullgamin a dit :

No nerf it, it's too good at one shotting Eidolons like chroma was too OP plz nerf

cry me a river

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il y a 1 minute, (PS4)purpleskullgamin a dit :

I'm joking jeez, what has your panties in a bunch?

Just sick of people calling for everything to be nerfed, while nerfs are not a fix.
Joking or not, it's more annoying than fun.

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is the damage tick rate changing? that was always one of the major issues imo, that damage ticks didnt happen often enough

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5 hours ago, Crimson_S said:

Well this also dosent say if the damage system is moving from the "per tick" or no, if it is it should be a buff.

Ifthose ammo counts are correct it loses 70% magazine capacity and over half in reserve.  Am I reading that right, so WTF DE

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Flame passes through all avatars damaging them but will now be stopped by level geometry and require punch through mods to penetrate walls.

RIP Ignis

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6 minutes ago, Cyberhazard said:

Just sick of people calling for everything to be nerfed, while nerfs are not a fix.
Joking or not, it's more annoying than fun.

Agreed nerfs aren't a fix, funnily enough I don't see people actually asking for stuff to be nerfed often I see alot of people addressing a problem and some re-works to maybe help with it. Then DE decide to just go and say F*** it we'll just nerf it. Also if you're going to be so salty i'm sure there are alot of people who will find tasting that salt fun.

P.S. myself included.

Edited by (PS4)purpleskullgamin
All in the Post script.

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Glaxion

Mastery Rank 8

Damage 26 Freeze

Fire Rate 12

Status Chance 34%

Critical Chance 8%

Reload Time 2.2secs

Oh hell no, adding 0.7 to reload?!?!?!?! WTF?! the only reason I use glaxion is the fast reload speed, I really enjoy it.

DE...HELL NO!

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I remember when Synapse and Phage were top-tier weapons. After coming back after *years* away from regular play, I was saddened to see that these were no longer useful. I hope these can be made viable again.

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2 hours ago, Mandolin53 said:

The Amprex and Synapse are total riven bait now, just gonna leave that here

I have a near god tier synapse riven with cc, cd, and heat.  So corrosive and gas right out of the gate will be interesting to experiment with.  Don't like the silly ranges thought, 19 meters is pretty much primed reach melee distance I believe.

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31 minutes ago, (PS4)purpleskullgamin said:

I'm joking jeez, what has your panties in a bunch?

Yeah but be careful or DE will think your serious and start the nerf train rolling again.

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8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

I have a near god tier synapse riven with cc, cd, and heat.  So corrosive and gas right out of the gate will be interesting to experiment with.  Don't like the silly ranges thought, 19 meters is pretty much primed reach melee distance I believe.

Primed Reach on a whip gets you to 13m. Primed Reach on a long polearm (Orthos Prime, Guandao, Cassowar, Zaws etc) gets you to 9m. A Scoliac with Primed Reach and a range riven can get up to about 20m, but that's... kind of an exception.

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8 hours ago, Vargras said:

I'm fully aware of how they work.

I'm just saying that Panthera's not a beam, is all.

Can you explain about why Panthera can equip "Combustion Beam" mod and it triggers explosion on alt-fire kill? 

Edited by Cappucchino

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