TeCoolTenno Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 one thing that makes me sad tho No more laser pointer synoid gammacor Seriously I had that thing to max fire rate and damage (so everything dies instantly but its ammo economy is poop) and multishot just so I can click it like a crazy cat lady also can we get some more silenced lasers? stealth kills with them are fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trndr Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: Beam Weapons & Warframe. Depending on how long you've played our game you've either only known them to function as they currently do (calculating per second), or remember a time when they calculated damage much differently. Perhaps 5 year-veterans speak of a different era of Beam Weapons. This Dev Workshop begins with some brief history, then we'll get right into the changes! Beam Weapon behavior was originally changed to help with performance but as we've made optimizations to the game over time, we can return them to their original status of hitscan weapons with pinpoint accurate, zero recoil death machines. Or at least we think we can. Perfect accuracy and high fire rate is balanced by limited range and damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping. To help with ammo economy, Beam Weapons consume 0.5 ammo per trace - unless they are multi beam like the Quanta, Convectrix, Phage or Flamethrowers. Looks good on paper. Hope the rampup dosn't feel as long as it looks though. Is the rampup linear or does it follow some other function? I can imagine rounding a corner, and standing in front of a lvl 100+ Bombard .4s to half damage would feel like an eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trndr Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 doublepost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trndr Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 mumumumultipost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCometCE Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 My question is how status is handled now, is it still that powerful backlogged damage where the damage is determined by DPS (or damage per tick), or is it built on the base stats? I loved my gas/electric Synapse and the absurd status procs it could do, I hope I don't lose that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeCoolTenno Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, TheCometCE said: My question is how status is handled now, is it still that powerful backlogged damage where the damage is determined by DPS (or damage per tick), or is it built on the base stats? I loved my gas/electric Synapse and the absurd status procs it could do, I hope I don't lose that It's like literally every other weapon now, except they get better fire rate by default. If you have a fire rate of 12 I think you get 12 status procs per second with 100% status chance and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceyShardZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 DE please if you are making a glaxion vandal please make it mastery rank 25 so it would have lit stats compared to the other beam weapons thanks >:) no but seriously make it should be as strong as the ignis wraith if not stronger,just add some crit chance (even 14% would be enough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetChaos Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Suggestion for Nukor: Instead of critical chance, please give it a separate 1-3% chance to do an obscene amount of aoe radiation+blast damage, wiping out an entire room.Why separate from critical? Not that I hate it, but because of Harrow or Kavats that gives easy addicitive crits which defeats the purpose of the low %. The low crit and high crit damage will still be there of course. Please make it visually explode, with an actual explosion, whenever it occurs. Very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceyShardZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 please revert some of glaxion changes,it needs a high fire rate and a large ammo pool or else its not the same weapon, 80 is nothing, even if its essentially 160 because of the 0.5 ammo per bullet used,it needs more,change it to like 100 at least,and the fire rate should be 15,this would justify the low crit chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsoskeleton Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, GolfTNP said: Reveal hidden contents Phage Mastery Rank 11 Damage 30 Viral Fire Rate 12 Status Chance 31% Critical Chance 19% Magazine 170/680 Capacity 25m Range Did they miss a "0" or something??? Phage initially have 330 Viral damage and now decreased to 30? the 330 is for all 7 beam combined iirc, while the damage shown in dev workshop changes are for each pellet (so in this case 30 might be for each beam) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsoskeleton Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 29 minutes ago, iceyShardZ said: DE please if you are making a glaxion vandal please make it mastery rank 25 so it would have lit stats compared to the other beam weapons thanks >:) no but seriously make it should be as strong as the ignis wraith if not stronger,just add some crit chance (even 14% would be enough) well most of em event weapon introduced in event is obtainable regardless of masteries, even for now supra vandal havent made a come back since ambulas reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cytobel Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Okay, I'm cherry-picking a few of these to look at. The following weapons represent my used guns in the category, and I'm unable to stress the sheer level of contempt I hold some of the others in. I kept some of them them on the off chance that I had an opportunity to turn them into decorative wall artwork or something similarly more useful than, say, a Convectrix. At least WALL ART can sometimes HURT SOMEONE when they run into it, for example, or if it should fall on something made of squishy flesh (toes, for example). Actually, knowing the Convectrix it'd split in half and fall to either side of someone's foot on the way down. -Flux Rifle first impression: Sniper Rifles are "one shot = one kill", assault rifles are "'DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!' is he dead yet?", and this Flux will be Jezus that Flux Rifle is STILL utter garbage, and my sorrow knows no bounds. NO damage to speak of, limited range (beam weapon, yes, but low range AND low damage?), and now it's going to require more modding to be used (likely in the form of magazine capacity). I'm hoping that status works on these things, because if not there is nothing redeeming about that weapon. Utterly unusable, if I'm reading this even close to right. It may sound like I'm just being wildly harsh here, but I'm really not. DE, PLEASE give it AT LEAST 35 base damage (because 22 is not enough for a weapon like this to kill anything higher level before it MUST reload), and lets talk about an auto-proc. Slash would be REALLY nice, and it'd at least make up for the loss of a reloadable ammo pool (which the Cycron taught me to count AGAINST a weapon). -Amprex nerfs are as welcome as a doctor giving you positive test results, and may speak to the future lifespan of the weapon as well. It was already niche, with only one mod (aside from a Riven) bringing it back from the dustbin. It performed well against trash while doing little more than tickling the bigs. Now it's eating a nerf pie for obscure reasons. I guess that this means Hunter Munitions won't be touched (a good thing too, given how many seriously marginal weapons it brings back to life), or this gun is not looking long for the game. Honestly, I would never bust this gun out for anything that's "harder" content based on the stats given, and I'm rolling 2 Rivens. Base ELECTRICITY damage will never compensate for the loss of 100%+ crit chance. Please consider a less severe nerf to the Crit Chance. -Ignus (et al) lost their carrier (Ember isn't standing up to the higher level runs by my last testing, and after extensive modding I sold my Ember for the sake of my sanity), and they therefore also lost the damage buff that made them KILL THINGS. The buff to damage and crit is cute (again, Ember won't see as much high level play), but I'm not too sure here... Not punching through terrain innately sounds BAD to me, and I don't know if gaining a few points of damage will help. Once more, I must rely on the assurances that status will work on these things. -Atomos losing half it's base damage is HARSH. I'd be even more upset, but I've sold the one 'Frame that I really ran this thing on anyway. Fire damage is okay with procs that panic (again, status), unfortunately DEATH is a much better status effect, and this VASTLY REDUCES THE KILLING POWER of the weapon. Trying to cut it down to make the Ignus' seem a better option is kind of silly when you compare the ammo pools (where the Ignus already won, not to say anything of the punch through). This strikes me as one of those balance pass moments when a piece of gear dies. I can't stop wincing at this one. -Nukor is losing 10 base damage?!? This is a typo. Gotta be. The last time I saw one of these used was weeks ago, by a friend who loves the silly thing. -Spectra isn't seeing any buffs as far as I can tell, and in my case it's losing some serious damage (442% Puncture damage Riven for the damn thing, and I STILL find it unusable at upper Sortie levels). Blerg... -Cycron: Oh! I see! Cycron incorrectly is displaying the new and "improved" Flux Rifle's ammo pool here! Okay, that makes more sense... Wait, that would leave a Flux still underperforming... erg.... -Finally, Chris the Embolist.... DE, 9m is MELEE RANGE in this game... Please consider an auto-proc of Gas for poor Chris here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3me Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think Synapse and Embolist should pack a bigger punch, but use battery ammo (it's a bio powered weapons after all) Also, I hope you ditch the awkward recoil animation as the firing starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawGritz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 About time for Flux rifle redesign or new skin options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganjou234 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cytobel said: -Snip- ....these arent nerfs tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrscha Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Gene_Freak said: Can we get a look at Combustion Beam as well? It's a cool mod conceptually, but if it had variable damage based on target health (like Acid Shells and Vulcan Blitz) it would actually be useful I second this! Combustion Beam is an extremely fun mod that I've always loved but found myself unable to use for years because the beam weapons I love are already weak and I just couldn't make the weapons perform well past level 35 or so if I included it. Suggestions I have for Combustion Beam if the new mechanics alone don't make it better: -leave the mechanic as-is, but have it be one of the few mods that does something in addition to tacking on some status chance, perhaps even a flat bonus -add the Blast status effect to the damage it deals, because if it was that way now I'd be using all the time for CC -living up to its namesake, again leave it as-is but have it add +60% fire damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeCoolTenno Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Cytobel said: Okay, I'm cherry-picking a few of these to look at. The following weapons represent my used guns in the category, and I'm unable to stress the sheer level of contempt I hold some of the others in. I kept some of them them on the off chance that I had an opportunity to turn them into decorative wall artwork or something similarly more useful than, say, a Convectrix. At least WALL ART can sometimes HURT SOMEONE when they run into it, for example, or if it should fall on something made of squishy flesh (toes, for example). Actually, knowing the Convectrix it'd split in half and fall to either side of someone's foot on the way down. -Flux Rifle first impression: Sniper Rifles are "one shot = one kill", assault rifles are "'DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!' is he dead yet?", and this Flux will be Jezus that Flux Rifle is STILL utter garbage, and my sorrow knows no bounds. NO damage to speak of, limited range (beam weapon, yes, but low range AND low damage?), and now it's going to require more modding to be used (likely in the form of magazine capacity). I'm hoping that status works on these things, because if not there is nothing redeeming about that weapon. Utterly unusable, if I'm reading this even close to right. It may sound like I'm just being wildly harsh here, but I'm really not. DE, PLEASE give it AT LEAST 35 base damage (because 22 is not enough for a weapon like this to kill anything higher level before it MUST reload), and lets talk about an auto-proc. Slash would be REALLY nice, and it'd at least make up for the loss of a reloadable ammo pool (which the Cycron taught me to count AGAINST a weapon). -Amprex nerfs are as welcome as a doctor giving you positive test results, and may speak to the future lifespan of the weapon as well. It was already niche, with only one mod (aside from a Riven) bringing it back from the dustbin. It performed well against trash while doing little more than tickling the bigs. Now it's eating a nerf pie for obscure reasons. I guess that this means Hunter Munitions won't be touched (a good thing too, given how many seriously marginal weapons it brings back to life), or this gun is not looking long for the game. Honestly, I would never bust this gun out for anything that's "harder" content based on the stats given, and I'm rolling 2 Rivens. Base ELECTRICITY damage will never compensate for the loss of 100%+ crit chance. Please consider a less severe nerf to the Crit Chance. -Ignus (et al) lost their carrier (Ember isn't standing up to the higher level runs by my last testing, and I sold my Ember for the sake of my sanity), and they therefore also lost the damage buff that made them KILL THINGS. The buff to damage and crit is cute (again, Ember won't see as much high level play), but I'm not too sure here... Not punching through terrain innately sounds BAD to me, and I don't know if gaining a few points of damage will help. Once more, I must rely on the assurances that status will work on these things. -Atomos losing half it's base damage is HARSH. I'd be even more upset, but I've sold the one 'Frame that I really ran this thing on anyway. Fire damage is okay with procs that panic (again, status), unfortunately DEATH is a much better status effect, and this VASTLY REDUCES THE KILLING POWER of the weapon. Trying to cut it down to make the Ignus' seem a better option is kind of silly when you compare the ammo pools (where the Ignus already won, not to say anything of the punch through). This strikes me as one of those balance pass moments when a piece of gear dies. I can't stop wincing at this one. -Nukor is losing 10 base damage?!? This is a typo. Gotta be. The last time I saw one of these used was weeks ago, by a friend who loves the silly thing. -Spectra isn't seeing any buffs as far as I can tell, and in my case it's losing some serious damage (442% Puncture damage Riven for the damn thing, and I STILL find it unusable at upper Sortie levels). Blerg... -Cycron: Oh! I see! Cycron incorrectly is displaying the new and "improved" Flux Rifle's ammo pool here! Okay, that makes more sense... Wait, that would leave a Flux still underperforming... erg.... -Finally, Chris the Embolist.... DE, 9m is MELEE RANGE in this game... Please consider an auto-proc of Gas for poor Chris here... 13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: With such a huge change in behavior, comparing new stats with old is like apples to oranges so they are presented on their own below from our designer: Honestly I'd rather have 12 chances to proc a crit at 90%, then 30% chance to proc munitions, than 100% chance to proc crit then 30% chance to proc munitions but only 2 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzhang Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Oh my, my favourite beam weapon synapse and synoid gammacor being buffed.. i cant wait to see this.. i thought acrid and mutalist quanta are going to be reworked with beam weapon, considered they are not in the last weapon balance list.. can you guys please take a look on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Crixus044 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Xsoskeleton said: 50% cc decreased to 32% cc makes it lose its ability to hit 25% crit level 2 (125% modded cc) with just 1 mod though Crit chance is not the only thing that matters. Crit doesn't equal damage. Crit is just a method to buff the damage, and while it has lost some of it's damage buff from crit, it gained it in the base damage itself, and in the fire rate, which overall made up for it. In the end, high crit or low crit, it boils down to how it's dps is overall, and with this change, the dps is improved. Crit is just a means to an end, nothing more. Crit builds still work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimulating Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I really love the work for the beam weps so far, with a few exceptions. As someone who very much enjoys the Amprex, I dislike what's happening to the weapon, despite the changes being (mostly) for the best. I thought its identity as a crit monster was really awesome and defines the weapon. I love the better ammo economy, since the current ammo economy takes the weapon almost to the point of being non-viable. I love the fact that there's no more "per second" bs. I don't like two things, though. I'd like to keep the base damage a bit lower and have the crit chance hit 100% with point strike, since its identity of being a crit monster is what brought me and many others to the weapon. Minor gripe, though. The big issue for me is the 14m range. You need to practically be barrel stuffing enemies to deal damage. Shotguns have a higher effective range than that. 14m range males the Amprex obsolete to the average player in my eyes. 4m is small, but it makes a difference. Not to mention it seems like players will have to sacrifice a mod slot that could add to the overall dps of the weapon, for basic functionality (sinister reach). Yes, these changes are an overall damage buff to the weapon, but the damage buff seems rather redundant when you have to use up a slot on a mod that won't add anything to the weapon's dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Crixus044 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 44 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said: the 330 is for all 7 beam combined iirc, while the damage shown in dev workshop changes are for each pellet (so in this case 30 might be for each beam) I do not believe this to be the case. The weapon right now has a 1 fire rate, which is buffed to 12 now, which is essentially 12x dps boost. So overall, it's as iff the weapon is dealing 360 damage over the 330 it had before, which is a 10% buff to base dps. Nothing to write home about, but considering the crit and status bonus, it might fair well. If each beam was dealing 30 damage, it would be far too powerful, since with a 12 fire rate, at base, it would be dealing 2520 dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l3RY4N Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 back to old functionality? man.. status beam weapons will be interesting (constant blast proc muhahahahahaha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Grzegorz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, GolfTNP said: Did they miss a "0" or something??? Phage initially have 330 Viral damage and now decreased to 30? Take a note that the rate of fire has been increased from 1 to 12. Also to everyone else whining about their weapons not being as powerful as you'd like, pay attention to its Mastery Rank and hope DE introduces a ahigher level equivalent of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor-Terror Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I would honestly suggest Cycron should keep its MR requirement at 9 and have a base status chance at 33%. I am also concerned with that Acrid wasn't revisited in any of these changes (from both Dev workshops) All other changes to the beam weapons are extremely beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceyShardZ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 getting ready for these changes (also please make the glaxion have 100 ammo per magazine and 15 fire rate and PLEASE change the reload to 1.8 or 2 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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