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Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!


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Two things to mention in regards to beam weapon rework:

1. Convectrix Alt Fire: Getting rid of it or replacing it with a better mechanic never could quite figure out why it was even added. However as a suggestion you could keep it but increase the width of the beams like you did with Opticor making sure you hit enemies in front of you and on the left/right side.

2. Embolist: Terrific changes overall and hopefully the ammo economy is much better; added range is beyond perfect. However without any form of basic damage like Ignis it will most likely suffer towards late game. To make up for this maybe add an alt fire mode that stuns/blinds enemies momentarily kinda like a pepper spray shot. Or add an effect along the lines of Condition Overload where the more status effects a target has the more damage they receive. Other than that great job guys. :)

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8 minutes ago, trndr said:

If you have a crit chance riven, you'll see lower numbers but a lot more of them. So relax at current proposed changes your build will go from meh, to good.

Synapse was innate 50% cc. I do have a cc riven and that worked perfectly with hunter munitions which allowed me to kill a lv 125 corrupted heavy gunner with 30-40 "bullets". How is that a meh build? And corrosive doesn't even matter when slash procs bypass said armoue.

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

Maybe because I am againts turning everything into "AverageFrame/AverageWeapon" if I wan't running with lower than 100% status ingnis I will choose normal one not wraith variant. So yes decrese 1% SC on Ignis Wraith is a big deal.

Well, here's a heart breaker for you then: Your ignis wraith already has less than 100% status chance, because status/sec is a terrible and deceptive system. That "100%" chance is actually evenly divided over four ticks a second with 25% chance each. The actual chance of a status proc each second is only 70%, by probability, and as soon as you get one the game will not let you get another until a second has passed.

Instead, with status/second being gone and the weapon just dealing damage at its fire rate, you'll have a 98% chance of a status proc eight times a second, with no limitation on repeatedly proccing. But, yes, the number that lies to you on the arsenal screen will no longer claim to be over 100.

edit: this is also all without knowing how, if at all, fire rate or multishot might actually factor in now

Edited by OvisCaedo
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

Maybe because I am againts turning everything into "AverageFrame/AverageWeapon" if I wan't running with lower than 100% status ingnis I will choose normal one not wraith variant. So yes decrese 1% SC on Ignis Wraith is a big deal.

For that tiny tradeoff of not being able to achieve 100% status you are going to able to inflict over 8 status effects per second per target hit. That's more than enough to make it a huge buff to the weapon. It all is hopefully going to scale with rate of fire and multishot properly, so if status is your thing, you can 20 status per second per target thanks to multishot alone before accounting for rivens or rate of fire increase. The terrible implementation status per second was doesn't come anywhere near that, no matter how hard you try.

 

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Just now, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

So 102% status on each round becomes 98,7%. What I am missing ?;>

The ability to cause 8 status effects per second to begin with before rate of fire and multishot is accounted for.

Edited by JuicyButthurt
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1 minute ago, SaiSoul7895 said:

Synapse was innate 50% cc. I do have a cc riven and that worked perfectly with hunter munitions which allowed me to kill a lv 125 corrupted heavy gunner with 30-40 "bullets". How is that a meh build? And corrosive doesn't even matter when slash procs bypass said armoue.

30-40 "bullets" is quite a lot for crud like a lvl 125 gunner.

I have a crit riven hunter build for synapse, there is a reason why it's collecting dust.

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I would look at the synapse if it was made as an opticor only without charging a semi-automatic and with a radus like that of an opticor

 

with a high rate of fire, but a small damage, as now
Edited by ReDllStarS
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What's with the total butchery of the range and ammo efficiency of "beam" weapons?

Ammo efficiency loss + ramp up time = painful to use because fire control to avoid running out of ammo harms your damage, but -not- controllign it runs out out of ammo in a few seconds. Amprex already had to make use of tight fire control, ammo pads and a Carrier in any mission lasting longer than a few minutes.

 

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3 minutes ago, trndr said:

30-40 "bullets" is quite a lot for crud like a lvl 125 gunner.

I have a crit riven hunter build for synapse, there is a reason why it's collecting dust.

Corrupted heavy gunner. 

 

Well if you say so. I have no complaints if the weapon performs better but the numbers are making me say otherwise. I just want a refund of the formas if the weapon sucks after the update

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5 minutes ago, SaiSoul7895 said:

Synapse was innate 50% cc. I do have a cc riven and that worked perfectly with hunter munitions which allowed me to kill a lv 125 corrupted heavy gunner with 30-40 "bullets". How is that a meh build? And corrosive doesn't even matter when slash procs bypass said armoue.

In terms of how this will work out in numbers, especially if you have a riven for crit chance... You're going to get three times as many slash procs from hunter munitions now. The actual math to figure out the relative damage OF those procs is... a lot more complicated than I'd like to have to figure out, actually, because of how weird the current beam weapon mechanics are. Eyeballing it, I'd think that the average damage of a slash proc most change would probably be a bit over half of what they would be now?

If you have over 100% crit chance, then the average damage hunter munitions will add should directly correspond to what the weapon's DPS is without it, And with near 50% higher base damage, slightly higher fire rate, and a higher crit multiplier, I would be surprised if the crit chance reduction was actually bringing the weapon's final DPS down.

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1 minute ago, Zendadaist said:

Ammo efficiency loss + ramp up time = painful to use because fire control to avoid running out of ammo harms your damage, but -not- controllign it runs out out of ammo in a few seconds. Amprex already had to make use of tight fire control, ammo pads and a Carrier in any mission lasting longer than a few minutes.

Out of all reworked continuous weapons only Quanta, Quanta Vandal, Convectrix, Phage, Gammacor, Spectra and Cycron have received a nerf to ammo efficiency.

Keep in mind that the actual ammo consumption rate is half the rate of fire value.

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6 minutes ago, Zendadaist said:

What's with the total butchery of the range and ammo efficiency of "beam" weapons?

Ammo efficiency loss + ramp up time = painful to use because fire control to avoid running out of ammo harms your damage, but -not- controllign it runs out out of ammo in a few seconds. Amprex already had to make use of tight fire control, ammo pads and a Carrier in any mission lasting longer than a few minutes.

 

You mention ammo effiency nerf and amprex, how is 6 or 12 ammo per second more than 20?

If you read the post again most beam weapons will have a firerate of 12 and most will use .5 ammo per tick.

Dont know if amprex falls in the .5 ammo per tick or not.

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So, the Convectrix along with other beam weapons received some much deserved love, thank you DE <3

Now, the Convectrix's damage wasn't really the issue honestly (jk, the damage sucked anyways). Rather, the wonky firing mechanics. I'm sure nobody used the extremely unwieldy and pointless alt-fire in the first place and the primary fire left much to be desired. So, here's my suggestion: 

- Primary Fire mode is now a focused beam with higher crit and crit damage variables that's mostly Puncture based.

- Alt-fire switches the weapon's firing mode (duh) and allows it to fire wide, slicing beams of energy (see Fluctus for reference). The alt-fire has reduced crit and crit damage, but higher base damage, status chance, punchthrough and is mostly Slashed based.

 

This will turn the Convectrix into an extremely versatile gun. Focused, high critical damage primary for heavy targets or widespread status procs for crowd-control secondary

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1 hour ago, JuicyButthurt said:

The ability to cause 8 status effects per second to begin with before rate of fire and multishot is accounted for.

First fire rate goes from 10 to 8 per 1 second. Second "0.15m beam thickness expanding to 3m at end point" If you targeting single target you get 98.7% but at range 27 m 3 meter range wide you hit like 3 or 5 enemies at one so you status chance will be like 70ish for 3 enemies and 50ish for 5 enemies per round (IT would behave like pelts in shotguns). Show me where I am wrong ?

Edited by (PS4)Semyazza1985
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

First fire rate goes from 10 to 8 per 1 second.

The problem is that current continuous weapon status is completely unrelated to rate of fire, note status per second compared to status per tick (which occur at frequency equal to rate of fire, 8RPS in case of new Ignis)

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

If you targeting single target you get 98.7% but at range 27 m 3 meter range wide you hit like 3 or 5 enemies at one so you status chance will be like 70ish for 3 enemies and 50ish for 5 enemies per round (IT would behave like pelts in shotguns).

These are completely independent calculations for every enemy caught in the stream and are nothing like how it behaves on shotguns. It's 98.7% per hit for every enemy in range at over 8 ticks per second for every enemy.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

Show me where I am wrong ?

You fail to understand the fundamental difference between status per second and status per tick.

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Hoped for proper revisit, and some new funcionalities, like cernos prime got. I feel like these little status tweaks does nothing, some weapons still remain in abyss in terms of usefulness and lastly remain too plain for hordes shooter.

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