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Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!


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I'll try to keep it short and simple.

1. Don't nerf things.

2. Don't change the damage type of things from slashing to something else. People like slashing damage.

3. Increase Range.

I do also hope you will listen to your community in regards to the proposed Amprex changes like you did with the Latron Wraith and Pandero. People like these kinds of weapons with more than 100% crit. Don't buff the raw damage and nerf crit stats, just keep it as it is.

Edited by CapnToaster
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17 minutes ago, JuicyButthurt said:

These are completely independent calculations for every enemy caught in the stream and are nothing like how it behaves on shotguns. It's 98.7% per hit for every enemy in range at over 8 ticks per second for every enemy.

How do you know that ?

 

Edited by (PS4)Semyazza1985
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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

How do you know that ?

Because such mechanic relies on far fewer assumptions than what you described and it is exactly how it would work on any other gun in the game given high enough punch through and aligned enemies.

Edited by JuicyButthurt
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Has there been a definitive answer yet whether multishot mods increase status chance for beam weapons? The old system essentially ignored MS due to status/sec mechanics, and having new 'tick rates' replace them seems to indicate that multiple added 'ticks' would impact status %, but I'm not sure. Either way, can't wait to try these changes!

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Just now, JuicyButthurt said:

Because such mechanic relies on far lesser amount of assumptions than what you described and it is exactly how it would work on any other gun in the game given punch through high enough and aligned enemies.

Punch trough is punch trouch we are taking about hitting multiply tagret at once (staying near each others). Not just punch trouch. So it's more likely shoutguns pelts behavior on status chance.

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48 minutes ago, BladeRambler said:

Has there been a definitive answer yet whether multishot mods increase status chance for beam weapons? The old system essentially ignored MS due to status/sec mechanics, and having new 'tick rates' replace them seems to indicate that multiple added 'ticks' would impact status %, but I'm not sure. Either way, can't wait to try these changes!

New beam weapons essentially are conventional rifles in disguise, as such multishot should work properly.

Edited by JuicyButthurt
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I am a bit disappointed in the reduction in the Phage's damage, if my math is right.  It will only do 270 at 100% damage output and not the 330 it dose now.  I was hoping for a 30 point reduction not a 60.  Especially since it took me 5 forma to actually unlock the phage's full damage, and next to the supra makes it a very expensive weapon even at the proposed mastery rank.  As for the amprix which is my go to anti corpus weapon.  Well no more silly damage because of 125% crit.  For those wondering it should make it 80% crit which means it will not constant crit but very close to it.  The rest of the weapons seem ok to me, but I mostly use my phage for my "We are going for the long haul" missions so I cant speak for all the changes but they seem in some cases like the phage a bit harsh if you don't have 5 forma in it now.  Or are lucky and have a supper crazy riven that gives Multi shot damage and crit.  Some of the changes if my memory serves me correctly will help the weapon get more use.  Like the Gammacor which, I think will be helped by this.  

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Just now, PsychadelicTaco said:

So what you guys are saying is the Ignis is losing the one key ability that I use it for unless I sacrifice a mod slot for punchthrough.... Thanks DE for ruining another one of my favourite weapons.

Sorry to single you out but.... cmon.. 20m pull wall punchthrough? Im assuming you use it wish mirage as well to be l33t?

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Semyazza1985 said:

Punch trough is punch trouch we are taking about hitting multiply tagret at once (staying near each others). Not just punch trouch. So it's more likely shoutguns pelts behavior on status chance.

Go stack rate of fire on Plasmor because that's the closest thing you are going to get, the primary problem is that Ignis' cone is exactly that, a hitscan cone which doesn't work like shotgun spread. Hitscan weapons essentially fire infinitely thin cones, which makes the comparison far more accurate than assuming Ignis has been turned into a shotgun under the hood.

Just now, PsychadelicTaco said:

So what you guys are saying is the Ignis is losing the one key ability that I use it for unless I sacrifice a mod slot for punchthrough.... Thanks DE for ruining another one of my favourite weapons.

Except it will still have infinite punch through when it comes to NPCs so all it does is resolving the issue of instakilling enemies in 40m sphere through level geometry.

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1 minute ago, Ahzanti said:

I am a bit disappointed in the reduction in the Phage's damage, if my math is right.  It will only do 270 at 100% damage output and not the 330 it dose now.  I was hoping for a 30 point reduction not a 60.  Especially since it took me 5 forma to actually unlock the phage's full damage, and next to the supra makes it a very expensive weapon even at the proposed mastery rank. 

Good thing your maths is wrong then.

Firerate 12 dmg per shot 30.

30*12=360

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I am very concerned about the phage as the listed fire rate and mag size could be a problem.  The phage is a weapon you are required to focus to get max effectiveness out of, unlike most other beam weapons, requiring you to spend ammo to get the weapon ready and spend more ammo firing while switching targets in order to keep the beams focused.  At the listed 12 rounds per second, you will have gone though a good portion of your magazine before you are even ready to deal damage.  This might be intended  but please keep this in mind when making tweaks before launch.  Maybe consider reducing the wind up time, ammo consumption, or increasing the base magazine size. 

Thanks for reading!

 

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19 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I know you mentioned that comparing the old stats and new stats were apples to oranges, but for the sake of our understanding can we have the current stats+beam calculation=effective damage vs. new stats+beam calculation=effective damage? That way we could understand what we're actually seeing, otherwise the weapon stats didn't really need to be posted at all.

 

Edit: I have to wonder, if status per second is actually removed like people are suspecting what formula would I use to determine the actual status per second of a particular beam weapon?

For example, if there's 12 projectiles per second, each with 35% chance of proc...what does that actually come out to in a second for one of them to proc?...I never studied probability. Or is that not now it will work?

It's functionally 100% chance in a given second. If you're interested, the formula used is P = 1 - (0.65^n) where P is the probability of status landing and n is the number of ticks being considered. At 6 ticks, you have a 92% chance of status having been applied at least once and at 12 ticks (one second) you are at 99.4% chance

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The low ranges on these beam weapons make them non viable.  DE should look these over again because why would anyone use beam weapons over alternatives.  Also who would ever bring these weapons to the POE?  For example the Ignis is now 14m.  Let that sink in for a second.  Why would I want to use two melee weapons, because 14m is melee range with a primed mod.

Yeah DE if you want us to use beam weapons then you need to start giving these weapons more range not reducing range.

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Im very excited to see these changes!

however.... I am still worried about couple of things

the one thing I always feel really bad about when using these weapons aside how they function as is
is definitely the range... I think they all should have just a abit more .. not by much just that little bit to make them feel better to use
especially amprex

next I would love to know about does the glaxion still do cold procs even if I set it to viral? I just think the identity of the weapon gets lost without them...I mean its a freeze ray?
speaking of which why doesnt it actually freeze enemies that survive its beam more than lets say... 4-5 seconds?

same concern is for weapons like the ignis or amprex

also I always felt it being really wrong that convectrix didnt have innate punch through
however that is just me

other than that yeah I cant wait!

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Can the orientation of wrist mounted weapons (Gammacor, Atomos, Sonicor, etc.) Be adjusted as well? I feel like it wasn't always this way, but when ADS, the weapon is suuuuuuper close to the reticle. The character model plus the weapon really abstructs your vision. I know with the beams it isn't gamebreaking to not ADS, this is honestly just a quality of life fix to the animations. 

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