Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

[flamingblueice]

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Synapse

Mastery Rank 11

Damage 18 Corrosive

Fire Rate 12

Status Chance 13%

Critical Chance 39%

Critical Damage 2.7x

19m Range

Magazine 70/560 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

Amprex

Mastery Rank 10

Damage 24 Electricity

Fire Rate 12

Status Chance 22%

Critical Chance 32%

Critical Damage 2.2x

14m Range

Magazine 100/700 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

The one thing that i don't understand is, why does Amprex get more love and support over Synapse? Not gonna compare the damage (being almost quadrupled for Amprex), I will mostly talk about the Quality of Life. So Amprex gets its fire rate almost halved (from 20 to 12) and Synapse has it increased (from 10 to 12). But why did Synapse have its Magazine Capacity reduced? I mean, I know that Amprex has a higher reload time (2.66 seconds) compared to Synapse (1.5 seconds), but increasing the fire rate and decreasing the magazine capacity will mean a LOT MORE RELOADS (The whole clip will be finished in about 6 seconds), which i don't think is justified. Comparatively speaking, I wont be able to find a better reason to use my Synapse over Amprex, considering that if these changes go live, Amprex will be able to fight hordes MUCH better (reduced fire rate and the added damage with AOE clear aaaaaaaand more ammo (100/700)). I request you to keep the magazine capacity for Synapse as it is currently (100/540). Won't really comment about the overall damage type and number change until i play test it (but I think Synapse can use a little bit more status chance?).

Also, I think 14m range on Amprex is just WAY TOO LOW. In a game like WF, I wouldn't like enemies coming so close to myself, unless I want to melee them (9m+ range on some weapons). I understand that the damage being given in return seems overwhelming at the moment (7.5 electricity to 24 electricity at base), but hey, I believe finding a middle ground is necessary. Please reconsider these changes as these are some of the most popular weapons with most people having 5+ forma in both of them. 

Reducing firerate on Amprex is REALLY APPRECIATED. Lesser reloads now are just more than welcome and that more ammo is really great. Just maybe give Synapse another glance?

I don't mean to be rude or anything, I won't really understand until I playtest these changes. But damn, thanks for these changes! Most of these are just really great and were really longed for! Thanks again!

[Etriia]

I won't say anything against this until I try it, but... did the Page's damage really need that much of a nerf? A 300 point reduction is a bit much, even with the buffs. Considering it's damage is split between the beams, each beam is only doing about 4 damage.

[Lasu89]

Ignis & Ignis Wraith are getting killed? Most people use it for nothing but room clearing and looting anyway and range was already very limited. Now we have to mod for range(if affected by it) and punch though and kill its already weak killing potential.

Not appreciated change IMO.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

3 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

compensation

Not that you'd need it, but you get infinite punchthrough on NPCs.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

18 minutes ago, flamingblueice said:

The one thing that i don't understand is, why does Amprex get more love and support over Synapse? Not gonna compare the damage (being almost quadrupled for Amprex),

It does indeed deal more damage, especially when chaining enemies which make it a monster in its realm, its surprising it landed below Synapse in terms of MR but there's still time for adjustments.

18 minutes ago, flamingblueice said:

So Amprex gets its fire rate almost halved (from 20 to 12) and Synapse has it increased (from 10 to 12).

These weapons will deal damage and consume ammo at exact same rate but keep in mind that the actual ammo consumption is .5 per shot, so in either case it's 6RPS for ammo usage despite dealing damage twice as fast.

18 minutes ago, flamingblueice said:

But why did Synapse have its Magazine Capacity reduced? I mean, I know that Amprex has a higher reload time (2.66 seconds) compared to Synapse (1.5 seconds), but increasing the fire rate and decreasing the magazine capacity will mean a LOT MORE RELOADS (The whole clip will be finished in about 6 seconds), which i don't think is justified.

Technically both weapons have received increased magazine sizes, Synapse can now fire 160 times before reloading while Amprex can shoot 200 times.

18 minutes ago, flamingblueice said:

Comparatively speaking, I wont be able to find a better reason to use my Synapse over Amprex, considering that if these changes go live, Amprex will be able to fight hordes MUCH better (reduced fire rate and the added damage with AOE clear aaaaaaaand more ammo (100/700)). I request you to keep the magazine capacity for Synapse as it is currently (100/540). Won't really comment about the overall damage type and number change until i play test it (but I think Synapse can use a little bit more status chance?).

Good enough tradeoff would be to make all infested weapons have effectively infinite ammo like Hema or Flux and Cycron, a cherry on top would be to give them additional perks like conditional healing. Imagine if despite lower output Synapse had infinite ammo and healed you on crits, the choice between it and Amprex wouldn't be as one-sided anymore.

 

tl;dr

There still can be adjustments made, just like before.

[Fundance]

EMBOLIST and PHAGE BUFFS? Is this real life? I must be dreaming. I've basically given up on asking for changes to beam weapons, specifically because of these two. Now they're finally coming back. My five-forma embolist will finally get some use again!

[Rallenjm]

i cant tell if the quanta and quanta vandal are geting nerf to the ground or buff or with the new mecanics on par with its present version

[Redbotminer]

21 hours ago, Derunik said:

nvm just read the actual text above the stats.

$&*(#

 

[KuruSeed]

21 hours ago, Rekalty said:

Allow me to compare apples to oranges: 

Primaries

  Reveal hidden contents

Mastery Rank 4-6

Flux Rifle

Damage 22.8 Physical (80% Slash, 10% Puncture, 10% Impact) -> 22 Physical (56% Puncture and 44% Slash)

Fire Rate 10 -> 12

Status Chance 25% per second -> 24%

Critical Chance 5% -> 10%

Converted to Battery with 50 capacity, 1 sec recharge delay and 40 regen rate

Range 25m -> 30m

0.5m Punch Through

.5 Ammo requirement

Note: Since introducing the Cycron and seeing your thoughts, we're improving battery-based ammunition in this beam revisit including adding it to the Flux Rifle. Flux Rifle's original reload time was 2 seconds. With battery, regen delay approximates to roughly less reload time (just over 1 second) with the added bonus that dodge rolls don't interrupt it.
 

Ignis

Mastery Rank 4- > 5

Damage 27 Heat -> 33 Heat

Fire Rate 10 -> 8

Status Chance 25% per second -.> 27%

Critical Chance 5% -> 11%

Magazine 150/750 Capacity

Range 40 -> 20m

0.15m beam thickness expanding to 3m at end point

Flame passes through all avatars damaging them but will now be stopped by level geometry and require punch through mods to penetrate walls. We had to make some compromises in the base beam functionality to properly have the flame pass through avatars and hit everything like a flamethrower, but punch-through Mods can be used for those who valued it's wall-clearing behaviour.

Quanta

Damage 220 Electricity -> 20 Electricity

Fire Rate 1 -> 12

Status Chance 10% per second - >16%

Critical Chance 10% -> 16%

Critical Damage 2.0x -> 2.2x

Magazine 60/540 Capacity

Range 50m -> 40m

Alt Fire Explosion Radius 6m

Alt Fire Explosion Damage 400 -> 600

Mastery Rank 7-9

Glaxion

Mastery Rank 6- > 8

Damage 16.6 Cold -> 26 Freeze(??)

Fire Rate 20 -> 12

Status Chance 35% per second -> 34%

Critical Chance 5% -> 8%

Reload Time 1.5secs -> 2.2secs

Magazine 300/1500 -> 80/720 Capacity

Range 24m

.5 Ammo requirement

Ignis Wraith

Mastery Rank 6 -> 9

Damage 25 Heat -> 35 Heat

Fire Rate 10 -> 8

Status Chance 30% per second -> 29%

Critical Chance 12% -> 17%

Critical Damage 2.0x -> 2.5x

Magazine 200/800 Capacity

Range 40m -> 27m

0.15m beam thickness expanding to 3m at end point

Flame passes through all avatars damaging them but will now be stopped by level geometry and require punch through mods to penetrate walls. We had to make some compromises in the base beam functionality to properly have the flame pass through avatars and hit everything like a flamethrower, but punch-through Mods can be used for those who valued it's wall-clearing behaviour.

Convectrix

Mastery Rank 3 -> 7

Damage 100 Physical (80% Slash, 10% Puncture, 10% Impact) -> 24 Physical (ISP spread??)

Fire Rate 3 -> 12

Status Chance 25% per second -> 24%

Critical Chance 10% -> 18%

Critical Damage 2.0x -> 2.2x

Range 25m -> 30m

Magazine 90/450 -> 120/600 Capacity

Mastery Rank 10-12

Synapse

Mastery Rank 6 -> 11

Damage 12.5 Electricity -> 18 Corrosive

Fire Rate 10 -> 12

Status Chance 10% per second -> 13%

Critical Chance 50% -> 39%

Critical Damage 2.0x -> 2.7x

Range 18m -> 19m

Magazine 100/540 -> 70/560 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

Amprex

Mastery Rank 5 -> 10

Damage 7.5 Electricity -> 24 Electricity

Fire Rate 20 -> 12

Status Chance 20% per second -> 22%

Critical Chance 50% -> 32%

Critical Damage 2.0x -> 2.2x

Range 18m -> 14m

Magazine 100/540 -> 100/700 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

Quanta Vandal

Mastery 4 -> ??

Damage 220 Electricity -> 26 Electricity

Fire Rate 1 -> 12

Status Chance 25% per second -> 30%

Critical Chance 10% -> 22%

Critical Damage 2.0x -> 2.4x

Reload 2.0secs -> 1.8 secs

Range 50m

Magazine 90/540 -> 80/560 Capacity

Alt Fire Explosion Radius 6m

Alt Fire Explosion Damage 250 -> 600

Phage

Mastery Rank 6 -> 11

Damage 330 Viral -> 30 Viral

Fire Rate 1 -> 12

Status Chance 15% per second -> 31%

Critical Chance 10% -> 19%

Magazine 40/120 -> 170/680 Capacity

Range 25m

 

 

Secondaries

  Reveal hidden contents

Mastery Rank 0-3

Gammacor

Damage 50 Magnetic -> 16 Magnetic

Fire Rate 5 -> 12

Status Chance 5% per second -> 20%

Critical Chance 5% -> 8%

Critical Damage 1.5x -> 1.8x

Reload 2.0secs -> 1.4 secs

Range 25m -> 24m

Magazine 50/210 -> 60/240 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

Mastery Rank 4-6

Atomos

Mastery Rank 4 -> 5

Fire Rate 5 -> 8

Damage 50 Fire -> 29 Fire

Status Chance 10% per second -> 21%

Critical Chance 5% -> 15%

Critical Damage 1.5x -> 1.7x

Magazine 50/210 -> 70/300 Capacity

Range 15m

Nukor

Fire Rate 5 -> 10

Damage 32 Radiation -> 22 Radiation

Status Chance 20% per second -> 29%

Critical Chance 1% -> 3%

Range 20m -> 21m

.5 Ammo requirement

Spectra

Fire Rate 5 -> 12

Damage 30 Physical (70% Puncture, 20% Slash, 10% Impact) -> 18 Physical (42% Puncture, 58% Slash)

Status Chance 20% per second -> 22%

Critical Chance 5% -> 14%

Reload 2.0secs -> 1.8secs

Magazine 80/360 -> 60/360 Capacity

0.5m Punch Through

Range 15m -> 16m

.5 Ammo requirement

Mastery Rank 7-9

Cycron

Mastery Rank 9 -> 8

Fire Rate 5 -> 12

Damage 60 Heat -> 23 (25% Puncture, 25% Slash, 50% Radiation)

Status Chance 30% per second -> 30%

Critical Chance 5% -> 12%

Critical Damage 1.5x -> 1.8x

Battery Capacity 60, regen delay 1 secs, regen rate 40

Range 20m

1m Punch Through

.5 Ammo requirement

Embolist

Mastery Rank 8 -> 9

Fire Rate 10 -> 8

Damage 18.5 Toxin -> 35 Poison(??)

Status Chance 10% per second -> 41%

Critical Chance 2.5% -> 3%

Reload 1.5secs -> 1.3secs

Range 6m -> 9m

1m Radius at beam end point

.5 Ammo requirement

Synoid Gammacor

Mastery Rank 6 -> 7

Damage 28 Magnetic -> 20 Magnetic

Status Chance 20% per second -> 28%

Critical Chance 10% -> 20%

Reload 2.0secs -> 1.8 secs

Magazine 150/540 -> 80/400 Capacity

Range 25m -> 30m

.5 Ammo requirement

go on then compare apples to oranges, still waiting

[Raspberry]

20 minutes ago, Rallenjm said:

i cant tell if the quanta and quanta vandal are geting nerf to the ground or buff or with the new mecanics on par with its present version

They're getting a massive fire rate buff over the damage nerf, so their DPS are definitely increased by quite a bit. This at the cost of lower ammo economy, it seems.

[Goenndyr]

Im looking forward to see a lot of these weapons but I dont expect too much tbh.
That main slash dmg type on flux is what makes it so fun.

having 200+CC overall on synapse is what makes it fun and now the only way to get above 200%CC overall is with a nearly max +2-1 CC riven, since even with the max possible cc stat at 268.5 you barely get above 200 as you can see here:
0,39 + (0,39x1,5) + (0,39x2,685) = 2,02215 :( FeelsBadMan I  have a 251.5CC riven :( and end up at ~196

[flamingblueice]

17 minutes ago, JuicyButthurt said:

It does indeed deal more damage, especially when chaining enemies which make it a monster in its realm, its surprising it landed below Synapse in terms of MR but there's still time for adjustments.

These weapons will deal damage and consume ammo at exact same rate but keep in mind that the actual ammo consumption is .5 per shot, so in either case it's 6RPS for ammo usage despite dealing damage twice as fast.

Technically both weapons have received increased magazine sizes, Synapse can now fire 160 times before reloading while Amprex can shoot 200 times.

Good enough tradeoff would be to make all infested weapons have effectively infinite ammo like Hema or Flux and Cycron, a cherry on top would be to give them additional perks like conditional healing. Imagine if despite lower output Synapse had infinite ammo and healed you on crits, the choice between it and Amprex wouldn't be as one-sided anymore.

 

tl;dr

There still can be adjustments made, just like before.

Man, if only! I mean, having cool effects added to infested weapons make complete sense, because they seem to be living weapons. Healing on Crit would be.. I dunno, I somehow can't see it happening, but yea, some special effects on all infested weapons would be really appreciated. 

I kinda just pictured Synapse having the special effect where the 3 appendages actually show some behavior. Like for example, on a status proc, the three appendages get activated and they turn into spike like (positioned like the 3 edges of a pyramid with the central point being the beam mouth, (i hope you get it)) things that also start shooting and add their beam to the original one, which can maybe add some punch through. 

Crazy much? XD

[Nasair]

Why so much nerf to the Ignis?

[Dr.Evergreen]

Seriously I'm worried the proc thing...I wish DE change the entire 'proc per second' system.

it's very unreasonable and irrational. beams should adopt 'proc per bullet' system as many guns.

 

p.s hope DE to buff Soma Prime a bit at the volley -

It should be at least on a par with normal Tenora because Soma Prime is Prime anyway I think.

If the Tenora Prime roll out in the future, then the firepower gap between Tenora and Soma will grow wider.

So you'll making another former Boltor Prime or Latron Prime...

and you should bandaid things again, so the other future updates will be postponed again because you spend time to do that.

I frankly don't wanna see that.

[KubrowTamer]

Just now, Nasair said:

Why so much nerf to the Ignis?

 Except it's not. Do some research and read. 

[KubrowTamer]

Just now, Dr.Evergreen said:

Seriously I'm worried the proc thing...I wish DE change the entire 'proc per second' system.

it's very unreasonable and irrational. beams should adopt 'proc per bullet' system as many guns.

 

p.s hope DE to buff Soma Prime a bit at the volley -

It should be at least on a par with normal Tenora because Soma Prime is Prime anyway I think.

If the Tenora Prime roll out in the future, then the firepower gap between Tenora and Soma will grow wider.

So you'll making another former Boltor Prime or Latron Prime...

and you should bandaid things again, so the other future updates will be postponed again because you spend time to do that.

I frankly don't wanna see that.

They are changing it. READ.

[Nasair]

Just now, KubrowTamer said:

 Except it's not. Do some research and read. 

It is, less range and less punch through.

[Compgeek]

22 hours ago, Zahnny said:

So, the Phage will still be awful due to functioning under the worst of both worlds e.g. Shotgun Status and Beam Status?

p.s. I really like the Phage since it was the first weapon I began using frequently. If you ever make an infested line of weapons similar to wraith and vandal please consider giving an upgraded variant to the Phage.

Phage has 7 beams. Each beam's status chance is 1-(7th root of 69%) after the changes. As you know mods on shotguns increase base sc before other ms mods. 31% allows you to reach 100% before ms mods. It seems like it will be changed to status chance per shot and not second meaning each of the 7 should proc status 12 times/second. If i missinterpreted that and it is stil sc/second as you say. Then you are correct and phage is screwed because if it has 31% status per second at 12 shots per second. that means base sc is a mere 3.045% meaning it cannot reach 100% sc per shot. That results in each beam having a sc of 0.44% every shot instead of 100% every shot.

[KubrowTamer]

Please read before looking at the stats. Most people are just posting bases on stats and ignoring the functionality change.

[KubrowTamer]

1 minute ago, Nasair said:

It is, less range and less punch through.

Except it's getting a buff to dps and status >->  

It is a buff

[Lasu89]

3 minutes ago, KubrowTamer said:

 Except it's not. Do some research and read. 

Please enlighten us stupid people who cant read.

[Rin-senpai]

When melee? :D

[Nasair]

1 minute ago, KubrowTamer said:

Except it's getting a buff to dps and status >->  

It is a buff

Still a nerf for how I use it

 

[KubrowTamer]

1 minute ago, Lasu89 said:

Please enlighten us stupid people who cant read.

Every single one of these with the exception of the phage will be procing  stats and crits  more as well as a dps buff in exchange for ammo econ. Effective killers that require some ammo management. If you knew how beam weapons were and read the first few sentences of the post you would have picked this up.

[Rin-senpai]

3 minutes ago, Nasair said:

Still a nerf for how I use it

 

if changes broke u gameplay... its not nerf... you just using it wrong before!