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Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

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4 minutes ago, WTFm3m0 said:

because the changes in status chance on continous weapons would make it too OP for that crit stat.

Right, fair enough. But what about range? Why make it even more tinier than it already is? I feel like it is uncalled for, simply for "balancing" the supposed buffs. 

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I'm a bit concerned about, as I indicated on the main weapons, for things becoming a bit generic but it's worse here.

The "spool up" mechanic (which...I'm not a huge fan of!) works for some weapons but definite not others - unless you're actively replacing their unique mechanics. Also, there's specific concerns with some weapons. I've looked at them in detail and will list;

Flux Rifle - 12% of firing time spent in spool-up. Magazine size is thus a concern. Not sure range cut is justified, especially as it's going from prior behavior to normal punchthrough.

Glaxion - Looks generally better. Will it keep freeze if it's doing cold procs like this?

Ignis - Big concern. Currently far bigger area affected and higher range, which is being cut down a lot. I believe you'll limit it's usability this way.

Convetrix - Spool-up and converging beams not compatible for a useful weapon.  10% of firing time spend in spool-up.  Amo decreased (by 2/3) to be very limiting.

Synapse - Crit monster. Huge damage boost. 8.5% of firing time spend in spool-up. Not sure range cut is justified.

Amprex - Is it keeping it's special arcing, or is the high status chance with electricity supposed to replace that?  Big damage boost. Amo boosted lots. I would prefer to keep the arcing and cut the damage and status (and it's special usefulness with crowds)). Range cut is a concern.

Quanta (V) - Bit concern here, because manually detonating the cubes is already hard enough. With spool-up, this becomes very annoying. Amo decreased (by over 90%) to be very limiting, especially with secondary fire. 15% of firing time spent in spool-up.

Phage - Spool-up and converging beams not compatible for a useful weapon. 7% of firing time spend in spool-up. Lost innate punchthrough? Amo decreased (by over 50%) to be very limiting.


Atomos - Keeping the bounce? 15% of firing time spent in spool-up. Still the short range, and damage has /not/ increased. Already very limited amo cut slightly, restrictive. While it will do more procs, nowhere near the new proc rates of most of the other beam weapons.

Nukor - Missing info on magazine size. Comment withheld thus.

Spectra - 10% of firing time spent in spool-up. Minor cut to amo. Not sure sufficient boosts to bring into use.

Cycron - Damage /cut/. 10% of firing time spent in spool-up. Combined, don't think it'll see much use.

Embolist - Missing info on magazine size, which is critical given this and low range previously made this weapon near-useless. But it /was/ wide-angle and you seem to have cut this down while increasing the range - I'd need to try this to comment usefully. Spoolup % big concern given low range.

(S) Gammacore - Missing info on rate of fire.  Comment withheld thus.



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I just noticed that many of the weapons ranges were nerfed.....
now I already stated in my previous post how the range is the biggest problem currently

and youre going to nerf it more instead of buff it?

whoah not looking forward to that ... :/
DE you do realize how little 14m is in your game? let alone 9m?

darn these weapons better melt my enemies fast otherwise they are gonna get a cold reception for sure
actually even with that much power I dont know if the weapons are going to feel comfy enough to see any use for me

just a little skeptic here
who knows maybe I love em
but darn those ranges scare me on paper

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So is Sinister Reach getting a higher cap on it's ability to increase range? It's only barely helpful in most cases currently. If it gets a boost though the major range nerfs will be optionally manageable which would be nice. Otherwise Range nerfs are going to be pretty killer I think. Also not a fan of the stat's becoming more generic again. Already wasn't nice for the regular weapon changes. The few unique mod combos that have special uses will be replaced by almost the same build on every weapon. That's pretty lame.
Making the generic fire rate damage changes, and crit changes seems to be particularly not great for making interesting builds. I really think those changes will damage the Amprex, Synapse, Quanta(s) the most. Again generic builds will be basically the same but slightly buffed which people initially say is great, but the unique specialized builds that made the weapons particularly fun and actually worth switching to are going to be nerfed very hard in some cases. In onther words players who have invested or getting hit hard, players who haven't probably still won't care that much.

Is fire status going to have some major overhauls? Is it going to end up being like another version of gas? Recent changes seem to be leaning towards making Ember very weak.

How will reload mods affect battery reload? Will they reduce time to wait before charging?

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i am looking forward to the changes. never knew the "old" beam weapons, so i am excited to test it out.

at that note i would like to ask you again to implement quality of life improvements to the simulacrum, as we all gonna hit that alot in near future i assume.

suggestions for simulacrum:
PLEASE let us have customizeable (permanently saveable) presets/loadouts of mobspawns.
so we can switch fast and easy between different setups. in my oppinion i think it would also be very good to allow different levels of a mobtype in the same loadout (aka for example have a lvl40 heavy gunner, a lvl50, a lvl60, etc. in the same loadout)
maybe implement a "normal group spawn" function. so we select faction and level and just get a "normal" spawn group.

give us borders.
it is not possible to test against a juggernaut, because he is gone over the cliff on the first charge.

can we get a "on ship" simulacrum? i find it tedious to have to visit a relay to get into the simulacrum.

edit: 4) give us the option to ignore capacity requirements in simulacrum, so we can test maximized builds before we have put several forma into a weapon. putting +3 forma into a weapon to only be able to SEE if an idea is working and see that weapon perform poorly then, is a massive disappointment.

thanks for reading.

first impression from simulacrum:

more ammo efficient and a lot better status application in general on beam weps. status/crit built hybrid corrosive/heat amprex with sinister reach will be a thing i suppose.
cant wait to build more beam weapons and try them.

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On 2018-02-20 at 8:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:


Again, most of these things look like really good changes, but there are few questions and such:

"damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing"
This sounds dreadful, honestly. They have perfect accuracy and low recoil (in most cases), yes. But the limitted range they (mostly) all have is enough counterweight to that. That rampup is obviously gonna sting for gameplay. 0.8 seconds of shooting is a LONG time per enemy engagement, unless you just hold the trigger down basicly the whole time. It just doesn't promote healthy ammo-useage, nor does it feel like it "balances" anything, it just seems like pure annoyance for the sake of it.
Could you please consider scrapping this mechanic entirely?

Battery mechanics
So, will they still keep the doubled reloaddelay penalty if you fully deplete their magazines? Because that seems like an unnecessary detriment, especially if you are gonna insist on that annoying ramp-up mechanic (meaning you should hold the trigger down for as long as possible for maximum damage, but JUST not enough to deplete the entire magazine... This will just be pure tedium!).
Also, could there be some visual indicator (like, with the reloading circle) to display the current reload delay left?

Multibeam weapons
From your wordings, it seems to be implied that being a "multibeam" weapon is some kind of strength. Is it? Clarification would be nice.

Phage & Convectrix spread mechanics
As for these weapons, are their quirky spreading mechanics taken into account at all?

The Phage, with its new much more rapid ammodepletion, means that handling the beams and their spread is given a lot less time.
To solve this, could you maybe consider having its current spread memorized? That way, aiming could be used to gradually reduce the spread, while altfire could be used to graducally increase the spread. WIth that, you can tailor the spread for each battle, without having to "battle" its wonky mechanics, instead letting the spread-mechanic be and actual STRENGTH!

As for the Convectrix, its future looks far more grim though. Why? Due to that rampup, its entire gimmick (the scissoring) would be entirely pointless! This just makes it another Flux Rifle (more or less), but with even MORE rampup needed, and its gimmick will purely be seen as a burden (even more than now), rather than some kind of neat (albeit gimmicky) potential strength.
To solve this, again, please consider scrapping the ramp-up mechanic!

Missed beamweapons
What about:
Panthera's altfire?
Mote Amp?
Klebrik Scaffold?
Taxon's Artax?

Any news on those?

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11 hours ago, terribleperson said:



I was pretty upset too, but I did the math before taking my freakout public. I posted it on page 14. The short of it is that the changes to the Amprex are a more than 30% buff to its burst DPS if you're running a crit heavy build. Sustained DPS is going to see an even larger increase.

with my crit riven its the only reason i sometimes use the 4 leg pets on normal occasion thanks to hunter synergy (and my riven with point strike hits 200% cc just right, giving 60% cc to the pet with hunter synergy put on)

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I don't agree with people who want the Embolist to have more range. That's not part of the weapon's theme and identity at all.

The embolist is supposed to be a unique close-range gun, like a can of pepper spray. It is supposed to sacrifice range for extreme dps, allowing it to be used in similar fashion to a melee weapon.

Previously, it never lived up to this fantasy because it was nerfed so hard with damage 2.0 and never regained a scrap of its original glory, but with these changes, Emoblist will be able to melt enemies down with status once again. It doesn't need more range, it just needs to be powerful enough to justify using it as the close range sidearm it's supposed to be.

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On 2/20/2018 at 1:06 PM, Zahnny said:

So, the Phage will still be awful due to functioning under the worst of both worlds e.g. Shotgun Status and Beam Status?

p.s. I really like the Phage since it was the first weapon I began using frequently. If you ever make an infested line of weapons similar to wraith and vandal please consider giving an upgraded variant to the Phage.

its not gonna be affected by beam status. the status/sec is no longer a thing with this update. 

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Okay, implemented changes are....much the same stat-wise. Still missing some stats, will head in-game to check them now and update this post.

* Flux rifle going back to slash is interesting

* Convetrix amo is marginally less bad.

* Amprex range reversion - it might be op with a gas/electric status build...

* Quanta V - amo clarification means that's less of a concern, but still a big one

(Missing stats -

* Nukor - 100/524  (counting 0.5). Minor boost. 10% spooling up though,

* Embolist - 33 amo? 24% spool-up?! (Can't see the maximum as I don't own one anymore)

* S. GammaC. - 12 RoF? a 57% damage nerf!? Okay, fine, bit more economy but this is dreadful.

Not good for two of those three weapons at all!

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i gotta say, they actually changed the panthera's secondary, but they actually made it worse.

it now eats ammo like there's no tomorrow, and dunno if the spool was added to it, but im killing things alot slower as well(not counting the ammount of reloads i need). the sad thing is, i would have no problem with the changes, IF you had a better ammo efficiency, like it was before, or even, not consume ammo since, you know, its a blade that is spinning, so you arent really using ammo in the first place.

the worst part is that the panthera's secondary was the only weapon to actually make good use of its "beam" calculations, the only thing it needed would be for multishot to add more blades...

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11 hours ago, Darkuhn said:

the Ignis series now goes through an unlimited amount of enemys. So it doesn't really need to penetrate Terrain anymore. And if you want to penetrate Terrain you only have to apply the corresponding Mod.

Yeah, I think you misunderstood my question. I wasn't asking about enemy avatar punch through, I was asking about environment. They stated:

"We had to make some compromises in the base beam functionality to properly have the flame pass through avatars and hit everything like a flamethrower, but punch-through Mods can be used for those who valued it's wall-clearing behaviour"

So I am well aware that you can mod environment punch though back into the ignis, but considering it already had innate punch through: enemies, walls, floors, loot boxes, etc... and that it would still have innate punch through for the enemies, why remove the environment interaction behavior? Environment penetration was one of the best things that made the Ignis/Ignis Wraith the signature farming weapon to quickly and efficiently clear rooms of loot, even rooms on the other side of walls. So by requiring punch through mods to reintroduce this feature on a weapon that already has punch though would be wasteful and redundant. 

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