Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

[Neightrix]

1 hour ago, Vargras said:

It really isn't. Alt-fire alone does not a beam weapon make.

It uses status per second, and the spinning saw is the tip of the beam, hitting everything between the player and that point if you have punch through. It's a beam weapon. It's relevant in this discussion.

[Xarian]

In general, the beam weapon ranges are way too limited. Every single one of them is unusable on the plains of eidolon because of this. Sacrificing damage and range in exchange for accuracy is not good - even wildly inaccurate weapons like the Grakata are still extremely accurate, so the actual value of accuracy is quite low.

Of the primaries, I think we may see some people using the Synapse, Quanta/Vandal, and Ignis/Wraith. The Phage falls behind because of the way that its beams work (its beams are too slow firing forward, and its ammo efficiency is already bad - this update makes it *much* worse) and the Amprex's range is shorter than a lot of melee weapons; it's only good at crowd control with electricity damage status.

I don't see anyone using any of the secondaries. Their stats are universally worse than the projectile variants, they have shorter range, and the one with good stats - the Embolist - is outclassed by melee weapons similarly to the Amprex. They need big improvements across the board.

 

Specifically:

Nukor, Atomos, and Synoid Gammacor need to be buffed pretty significantly from those stats that you posted. Higher MR, and higher base damage.

Synoid Gammacor, for example, has the worst damage type in the game (magnetic) and the lowest riven disposition. Even with the buff to ammo efficiency, its ammo efficiency is worse than machine pistols like the Viper (which are supposed to have worse efficiency). Losing base damage in exchange for critical chance is exactly the wrong direction to go. Its MR should be raised to 10, like the Vaykor Marelok, and it should have increased base damage (30-32).

The Flux Rifle and Cycron should be the "long ranged" beam weapons. 100 meter range with damage falloff beyond 30 meters; half that for the Cycron. Usable in PoE.

[DecadeX]

Just now, craftfaster2 said:

Yeah I saw that...but I just thought that since it IS a beam weapon...yea you can say it's a launcher...but you don't LAUNCH a laser. It is a beam weapon.

I'm talking about mechanics not lore. It does not use beam weapon mechanics, and the weapons in this post are here because they do.

[Valiant]

18 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Yeah I see it now.  4% more status chance.... hoooray? 

 

 

Shows you hardly checked the stats before going off on one. Fairly sure there is a damage buff too. More status would be nice for that freezing bonus proc but we'll see.

Also, comparing the glaxion to Tigris prime makes no sense at all as they're two different weapons. Same goes for tiberon. They aren't beam weapons which have different mechanics.

I mean, have you even tried the glaxion - which has 5 depo - with a decent riven yet? Something tells me you haven't. I have and it's decent. Still having the focus status proc's would have been nice too but oh well. Plus, if you're after crit's or physical proc's, you're looking at the wrong weapon.

[Urlan]

So the ammo requirement, would that be how much ammo the weapon drains per second?

[Viges]

My Convectrix riven is ready

[ljmadruga]

Why nerf the amprex?

[Helmed]

Is anyone noticing that these beam weapon "buffs" are actually "nerfs" because of how much range is being cut?

I want beam weapons to be USEFUL and this is the very opposite.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Phage should be more crit and less status, plus something needs to be done on how long it takes for the beams on both convectrix and phage beams to converge... Needs to be twice as fast if not instant.

[Worldbrand]

I'm glad to hear these changes are coming so quickly! As was mentioned, on-paper feedback won't be very useful, but I would still like to bring up some points:

• With the Flux Rifle battery changes, please remember to review Flux Overdrive. My concern here is that 5 seconds is too long a spool-up time for the rest of the clip to benefit from the augment.
• Battery-type ammo is interesting and could possibly be applied to more weapon types than beam weapons. Please consider it, if you should ever add another Corpus weapon in the same vein as the Cestra, Dera, Tetra and Supra. Also consider how reload mods factor into recharging (including the Conclave/PvE mod that provides extra reload while the weapon is holstered!)

[ReDRoS]

Il y a 1 heure, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Synapse

Mastery Rank 11

Damage 18 Corrosive

Fire Rate 12

Status Chance 13%

Critical Chance 39%

Critical Damage 2.7x

19m Range

Magazine 70/560 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

Amprex

Mastery Rank 10

Damage 24 Electricity

Fire Rate 12

Status Chance 22%

Critical Chance 32%

Critical Damage 2.2x

14m Range

Magazine 100/700 Capacity

.5 Ammo requirement

Phage

Mastery Rank 11

Damage 30 Viral

Fire Rate 12

Status Chance 31%

Critical Chance 19%

Magazine 170/680 Capacity

25m Range

Embolist

Mastery Rank 9

Fire Rate 8

Damage 35 Poison

Status Chance 41%

Critical Chance 3%

Reload 1.3secs

9m Range

1m Radius at beam end point

.5 Ammo requirement

 

I burn when I understand that there is no 100% accuracy and multiple shot, so the radius is cut off by 9-25 meters

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, Helm said:

Is anyone noticing that these beam weapon "buffs" are actually "nerfs" because of how much range is being cut?

I want beam weapons to be USEFUL and this is the very opposite.

I am seeing quite a few lower damage numbers for the weapons, so it could stand to reason.

[Omega]

Synapse looks like it got a real good buff from this.  Innate corrosive allows one to build viral

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

 With range being so short on beam weapons, its more feasible to use any non beam shotgun to kill faster and from further away or any melee... even sparring could probably break dance to the target and kill them before these beam weapons could.

[Nazariy]

I'm not going to comment on the damage numbers or crit chance until I see how things shake out in actual play, but I absolutely agree with the people raising concerns over range, since Plains of Eidolon is the part of the game that's currently the focus and has been receiving the most active updates, and also the one that requires the longest ranged weapons.

[DecadeX]

1 minute ago, Nazariy said:

I'm not going to comment on the damage numbers or crit chance until I see how things shake out in actual play, but I absolutely agree with the people raising concerns over range, since Plains of Eidolon is the part of the game that's currently the focus and has been receiving the most active updates, and also the one that requires the longest ranged weapons.

I mean, I'm tired of going to the plains. So this is fine by me.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I have an idea... Wat if beam weapons shooot long beams... Like 3m in length then break like a projectile basically given them range similar to any projectile weapon, however the beam being so long is like 3 tics of dmg per beam. 

[-Pure]

1 hour ago, Rekalty said:

Would you kindly add current stats? Makes it a lot easier to tell if you're improving or nerfing them.

Look like someone didnt read the post. : )

[(XBOX)IceTriden7]

This post needs some clarification from Reb, because people aren't getting the most important part of this workshop.

If I'm not mistaken, it's heavily implied that:

Beam weapons are gonna go from ticking damage ~3 times per second to whatever the listed fire rate is. Status per second is being ditched.  The fire rate stat basically means ammo consumption per second before these changes. After them, they work like any other rifles, but with charge-up time, lower ammo consumption, and low range.

Why is the Amprex seeing a damage reduction? Because it's doing damage more times per second.

Why did the Synapse and Amprex have their crit chance reduced? Probably because they're doing damage more times per second, which means more chances to proc Hunter Munitions. Also more status viability. 

[Finedaible]

11 minutes ago, craftfaster2 said:

Yeah I saw that...but I just thought that since it IS a beam weapon...yea you can say it's a launcher...but you don't LAUNCH a laser. It is a beam weapon.

What DE is calling "beams" could maybe be better described as "Continuous" beam weapons. Opticor is technically a charge weapon.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Ate these going to be showcased on a Prime Time before PV release?

 

I am eager and hoping to see each individual pellet/beam- particle/projectile have its own damage and status chance Application (Like 'vintage' Beam weapons)

I assume Panthera Alt-fire, Artax, Mote Amp, non-Amp void beam will also deal damage and status at noon per second rates if that is the changed being coded.

Letting Mote Amp/Non-Amp void beam deal damage and Void status proc frequently would assist them.

Same with Panthera Alt just stacking Slash procs or having forced Slash and this being able to double proc like Artax.

[-Pure]

Just now, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Ate these going to be showcased on a Prime Time before PV release?

 

I am eager and hoping to see each individual pellet/beam- particle/projectile have its own damage and status chance Application (Like 'vintage' Beam weapons)

I assume Panthera Alt-fire, Artax, Mote Amp, non-Amp void beam will also deal damage and status at noon per second rates if that is the changed being coded.

Letting Mote Amp/Non-Amp void beam deal damage and Void status proc frequently would assist them.

Same with Panthera Alt just stacking Slash procs or having forced Slash and this being able to double proc like Artax.

What would be the point in showing the weapons...they dont know how to mod them anyway its not like you would actually see how good  they are.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

Those range cuts ruin the weapons long before I can get my hands on them.

 

I used Amprex just the other day (for a change of pace) and took Sinister Reach off to test something. The range was so short that I was quickly starting to think "This is un(censored)playable!" by the end of a short match, and you are making them shorter? They need increased across the board if anything.

[Valiant]

9 minutes ago, Nazariy said:

I'm not going to comment on the damage numbers or crit chance until I see how things shake out in actual play, but I absolutely agree with the people raising concerns over range, since Plains of Eidolon is the part of the game that's currently the focus and has been receiving the most active updates, and also the one that requires the longest ranged weapons.

Well, guess that's another reason why we have secondaries until you do get close enough.

I understand your point but not all weapons have to suit every single environment. So you need to be a bit more thoughtful in your loadout. Much like the Tonkor complaints 'omg I kill myself in cqc or tight corridors'. People were used to being able to use it everywhere and now it requires a little more caution, much like the initial ogris days.

[Frenrihr89]

13 minutes ago, Viges said:

My Convectrix riven is ready

seems like its a straight nerf since actually convectrix do:
100 of physical damage (10% impact, 10% puncture and 80% slash)

the patch note says:

Damage 24 Physical