Dev Workshop: Beam Weapons Revisited!

[Rekalty]

3 minutes ago, -Pure said:

Look like someone didnt read the post. : )

Someone did read the post, but it just seems like a bad excuse not to actually compare them. They're taking changing a weapons, it's not like they removed them and add new ones, they're still based on the old ones, we have leveled and formaed, it would be easier for us to see the changes, if we can compare said changes.

[Guest]

What about the Artax?  And why can't that thing roll rivens?  It's literally the ONLY gun in the game that can't.

[ReDRoS]

il y a 58 minutes, DecadeX a dit :

Corrosive is strictly a major buff and most of us would be running it anyways. If you want more elemental diversity ask for armor to be less awful not for bad weapons.

 

who else uses corrosion? only radiation

https://yadi.sk/i/-Rp6yHpi3Scxdm

[DecadeX]

1 minute ago, TheDefenestrater said:

What about the Artax?  And why can't that thing roll rivens?  It's literally the ONLY gun in the game that can't.

It can't roll rivens cause there wouldn't be a point. The gun is made to just cold proc a thing and keep them that way so that a new player can more easily handle it. It's stats are low to match. Like sure it getting a Riven is memes but it's also a waste of time for somebody who actually wants to make a weapon more powerful since it's stats are beyond a riven saving it.

[Viges]

No wall-piercing melees next - forum explodes! Can't wait

[Periselene]

Soooo your idea for the Atomos is to nerf its base damage by 40%? The hell are you doing?

[ArtDEAD]

2 часа назад, [DE]Rebecca сказал:

 

  Скрыть контент

Nukor

Critical Chance 3%

 

Oh wow, now i can make crit build with this.

[Soup2504]

One thing everyone needs to understand before this goes live, is that your damage ticks ARE going to be lower even if they increased damage by like 20 times (exaggeration). Since damage ticks will no longer be “1 second of damage displayed as a single tick every second”, damage ticks are going to be smaller. This doesn’t automatically mean “OH NO A NERFFFF!!!!!!!”. Honestly, the mechanics are changing entirely. If people only look at the damage per tick and then call everything a nerf I’m probably going to instantly age 57 years and lose all my hair.

[Guest]

Just now, DecadeX said:

It can't roll rivens cause there wouldn't be a point. The gun is made to just cold proc a thing and keep them that way so that a new player can more easily handle it. It's stats are low to match. Like sure it getting a Riven is memes but it's also a waste of time for somebody who actually wants to make a weapon more powerful since it's stats are beyond a riven saving it.

You do realize rivens can roll non-damage stats that can have a big affect on its performance, right?  Stuff like Status Duration, Zoom, Reload Speed, Punch Through, etc.  It's not entirely a waste of time to put a riven on a gun designed to simply proc status on anything in sight.  If status/second is finally getting reworked, then there is the possibility of having the artax reliably proc other status types besides Cold.

[Strykus]

How about downgrade fire rate on Synoid Gammacor from 24, to 12?

We do not need to increase the maximum ammo capacity... No no ammo not "burned" in a couple of seconds... 

[DecadeX]

Just now, TheDefenestrater said:

You do realize rivens can roll non-damage stats that can have a big affect on its performance, right?  Stuff like Status Duration, Zoom, Reload Speed, Punch Through, etc.  It's not entirely a waste of time to put a riven on a gun designed to simply proc status on anything in sight.  If status/second is finally getting reworked, then there is the possibility of having the artax reliably proc other status types besides Cold.

It's guaranteed Cold, and it's supposed to only do Cold. It is explictly intended to do nothing else well, and that's why it was removed from the Riven drop poll. Also it doesn't just proc cold it keeps cold indefinitely as long as it's on an enemy.

[Sannidor]

Hey, DE

You really hate beam weapons, huh... 

We need to test them with new stats to be sure but on "paper" it looks like nerfs over QOL.

I feel like crafting a few space coffins now, for incoming RIPs to my favorite toys.

[Nazariy]

9 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Well, guess that's another reason why we have secondaries until you do get close enough.

I understand your point but not all weapons have to suit every single environment. So you need to be a bit more thoughtful in your loadout. Much like the Tonkor complaints 'omg I kill myself in cqc or tight corridors'. People were used to being able to use it everywhere and now it requires a little more caution, much like the initial ogris days.

I'm not saying every weapon has to suit every environment, but the weapons that are under active revision (or at least some of them) should be suited to the environment that's under active development. If the current update were U22 Narrow Corridors of Eidolon, I'd change my tune.

[DecadeX]

1 minute ago, Sannidor said:

Hey, DE

You really hate beam weapons, huh... 

We need to test them with new stats to be sure but on "paper" it looks like nerfs over QOL.

I feel like crafting a few space coffins now, for incoming RIPs to my favorite toys.

There is a heavy implication that status/sec is going byebye which would outweigh any nerfs the changes here amount to on its own.

[Katinka]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Embolist

Could the Embolist please be given a larger spare ammo count?  With it's exclusive Blight mod alone it's magazine capacity goes from 100 to 300 which makes 210 spare ammo a bit silly.

[DecadeX]

1 minute ago, Nazariy said:

I'm not saying every weapon has to suit every environment, but the weapons that are under active revision (or at least some of them) should be suited to the environment that's under active development. If the current update were U22 Narrow Corridors of Eidolon, I'd change my tune.

That's just abandoning old content though and they definitely shouldn't be doing that.

[Helmed]

1 minute ago, DecadeX said:

There is a heavy implication that status/sec is going byebye which would outweigh any nerfs the changes here amount to on its own.

Can you elaborate?

[TheGuyver]

I'm still 110% flabbergasted the embolist didn't get a reserve ammo buff to use with the augment.

[DecadeX]

Just now, Helm said:

Can you elaborate?

In the block of text before all the weapon changes, Rebecca talks about how they plan on making beam weapons act more how they used to before they were nerfed to reduce lag. Back then status/sec didn't exist and they got procs all the time. For the record she did also say that there has been enough optimization since then that they aren't worried about it lagging out PCs anymore.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Periselene said:

Soooo your idea for the Atomos is to nerf its base damage by 40%? The hell are you doing?

It's actually almost the exact same DPS.  They increased the fire rate, crit chance, and the crit multiplier, so it balances out to be nerf of about .14 dps.  Given the much larger mag size and the fact that it consumes half the ammo per trace, it'll have a higher sustained DPS as well.  Add in the status mechanic rework combined with a much higher base status chance, and the gun will deal about the same burst damage, but scale much better vs basically everything.

[LegendaryNeurotoxin]

13 minutes ago, Xarian said:

In general, the beam weapon ranges are way too limited. Every single one of them is unusable on the plains of eidolon because of this. Sacrificing damage and range in exchange for accuracy is not good - even wildly inaccurate weapons like the Grakata are still extremely accurate, so the actual value of accuracy is quite low.

I have to disagree, I slapped range on my Synapse and it freaking melts elbows and kneecaps. I run out of ammo on the 1st Eidolon if I don't remember to Roar consistently. :P Radiation is a good split duty for low drop ships, and at the worst I need to bullet jump to hit them.

I do wish there was some more range to Synapse though. 

[HyokaChan]

Quote

Perfect accuracy and high fire rate is balanced by limited range and damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping. To help with ammo economy, Beam Weapons consume 0.5 ammo per trace - unless they are multi beam like the Quanta, Convectrix, Phage or Flamethrowers.

Except this kills trigger discipline because ever lifting your finger off the trigger will now kill your damage and unless this is explicitly affected by fire rate (which it doesn't seem to be written as such). This instantly kills high fire rate weapons like Synoid Gammacor. And to make this even better, AFAIK Quanta's current multi-beam only ever took the bottom beam into consideration when scanning for hits...

In fact the post addressed nothing about the two glaring problems in continuous mechanics:

1. The presence of status/sec: Is it going to be converted back to regular status? If yes, say so.

2. The effect of multishot: Is it still going to be a straight damage multiplier? If yes, then since it doesn't affect status/crit indirectly like it does other weapons, beams will still be disadvantaged.

[sixmille]

Honestly I don't see them becoming any better with such marginal buffs. What beam weapons need is a complete functionality overhaul, because right now it's just not working well within the game's environment. The status per second thing really kills them. Then doubling ammo capacity isn't going to change anything, most weapons go through bullets much faster than that, and due to the overall low dps, they need a lot more fire to kill stuff.

All I see this doing is bringing beam weapons to the level of the soma (prime), and no one is using it (at least successfully) in any sort of endgame content past lvl 40. So, meh.

[PsiWarp]

Can't wait to try them out! Also, does this change the behavior of beam weapons for Limbo's Stasis?

[jesusdh]

How about the way that Status/Sec works get revisited too, because for a beam weapon to truly hits 100% Status, it needs 400% Status/Sec.