The proposed changes for the Atomos nerf its base damage by 40percent while giving it small increases to crit and status chance. This doesn't sound like a good tradeoff.

[Periselene]

The Atomos has been my favorite secondary weapon since I built it 3 years ago. 

It sounds cool, it has innate element damage, it can do a lot of Warframe's content at a decent pace. The chaining mechanic is what I primarily like about it since very few other weapons (and especially secondaries) can attack multiple enemies at the same time while on the move. It was never a heavy damage dealer versus armor and had its niche in low to mid level content as a result.

DE has posted their changes.

Quote

Atomos:
MR increased from 4 to 5.
Damage lowered from 50 to 29.
Fire rate increased from 5 to 8.
Status chance increased from 10 to 21%.
Crit chance increased from 5 to 15%.
Crit damage increased from 1.5 to 1.7x.
Mag size increased from 50 to 70.
Max ammo increased from 210 to 300.

I uh, I have no idea what the plan is for this weapon. I can only assume that they took a look at it and wanted to make it deal procs more reliably, but why the massive loss in DPS?

The fire rate makes ammo get chewed through faster while struggling to kill enemies at the same pace as before. It does give quicker Corrosive armor stripping but there are better tools for that and status effects that do not benefit from faster application, like Viral and Radiation, do not care about fire rate.

Crit chance won't matter either, I'd rather have that on weapons that already hit hard.

It will scale better into high level Grineer missions and apply status effects more reliably and more quickly but suffer in everything else namely how fast it can kill high level enemies that don't have a lot of armor.

Thoughts?

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Periselene

[taiiat]

in trade, you get Crits and so it will deal more Damage than it was before since Crit Mods are more powerful per Mod Slot. (you will gain ~24% DPS plus a much higher Status Rate)

also there's a Workshop Thread that you read that your feedback belongs in. it's less likely to be read if it isn't in there.

Quote

Crit chance won't matter either, I'd rather have that on weapons that already hit hard.

so you're saying that..... a Soma is ineffective because it doesn't have high Base Damage?

Edited February 20, 2018 by taiiat

[ArbitUHM]

I would hazard a guess that the 40% damage decrease combined with the 60% fire rate and crit stat increase means the DPS is actually superior. It's going to be harder to keep the ammo supply up, as you note.

That is, they are hitting it with the least fun balancing mechanism - ammo restrictions :(

[Fishyflakes]

50 x 5 = 250
29 x 8 = 232

Meh if you use Gas on infested it could be better now? I would take mob clearing weapons like this to "high level missions" anyway.

[rapt0rman]

While preemptive feedback can be good, reminder that damage ticks of beam weapons will be closer to what we had before, and the weapons won't perform as they do now.

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Once this launches (hopefully this week on PC), we're hoping for some practical feedback on the changes and your thoughts! It's a bit tricky to grasp the behaviour changes on paper, but in practice it's something you'll be able to detect quickly. Please bear that in mind when replying - practical feedback will be the needle mover for any tweaks to come. So now we wait for release!

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by rapt0rman

[bad4youLT]

didnt the post stated all continues weapons will now have 0.5 ammo consuption ?

[HyokaChan]

11 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

50 x 5 = 250
29 x 8 = 232

Meh if you use Gas on infested it could be better now? I would take mob clearing weapons like this to "high level missions" anyway.

I'm pretty sure Gas is better if you had bigger damage so each singular proc would have more impact.

[shut]

25 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

didnt the post stated all continues weapons will now have 0.5 ammo consuption ?

I think that was meant to be for single-target beam weapons only (e.g. Amprex, Flux rifle, etc). Weapons that can hit multiple enemies with ease (Amprex, Atomos, Ignis, etc) don't get that boost.

 

OT: I don't see the problem here.
For the base damage alone, you lose around 7% DPS and a bit of ammo economy. In exchange, your crit chance is tripled (i.e. actually viable now), and your Status chance is "doubled"-- but with the fix for beam procs, the Atomos should do literally >16x more procs than it does now. That's huge.

I'm imagining a standard Corrosive+Blast will be able to strip armor pretty steadily while stunlocking an entire crowd of enemies. The armor-stripping alone will make up for the loss in ammo economy, easily.

Edited February 20, 2018 by SortaRandom

[AlinaBee]

The changes are looking like nerfs from the numbers alone on many weapons (at least those Ive checked). Very bad.

[peterc3]

5 minutes ago, AlinaBee said:

The changes are looking like nerfs from the numbers alone on many weapons (at least those Ive checked). Very bad.

This isn't a spreadsheet, this is a game. Numbers tell us something but isn't the entire story. How does this qualify as "very bad"?

[Airwolfen]

even if its a small decrease. status will make up for it now that the dreaded status/second is going away.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Airwolfen

[YagoXiten]

Its base damage per second is slightly lower with the listed changes, but its supplemental stats have been significantly buffed. Its increased fire rate will likely be a slight nerf to its presently amazing ammo economy, but that's minor and actually kind of hard to gauge. The descriptions for the new ramping effect and the .5 ammo per trace mechanic seems, to me at least, to suggest that continuous fire weapons will only consume ammo when you actually hit a target, similar to the way the Panthera's alt-fire functions now. At any rate, all you've done here, OP, is make a knee-jerk dramatization of the changes without proper context or even waiting to test them out. Which seems silly, since they explicitly said in the Dev Workshop thread that the changes are difficult to articulate or gauge on paper.

Edited February 21, 2018 by YagoXiten

[Vox_Preliator]

3 hours ago, AlinaBee said:

The changes are looking like nerfs from the numbers alone on many weapons (at least those Ive checked). Very bad.

They didn't bother to show a comparison between current and proposed stats because the fundamental mechanics are being changed.  It's normal to hear "Wait and see how they perform once implemented" for just about everything, but in this case it's definitely applicable.  It's not possible to tell how they'll perform from numbers alone, especially when we're not entirely sure what some of those numbers might mean or how they're used.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

The mechanics are being changed. Obviously, it's not possible to predict viability because we haven't seen anything. I find it laughable when players whine about X thing without it releasing and actually playtesting it

[(PSN)MrNishi]

@Periselene

Is that listed number the base 10% Beam damage or the fully ramped 100% Beam damage?

 

I thought we would be unclear of damage perfor.ance until they show/release it.

Literally thought Rebecca's post said it would be comparing Apples to Oranges, since they were reverting Damage & Status per second back to the Overpowered tiny numbers fountain.

[DreamsmithJane]

8 hours ago, Fishyflakes said:

50 x 5 = 250
29 x 8 = 232

Meh if you use Gas on infested it could be better now? I would take mob clearing weapons like this to "high level missions" anyway.

Don't forget the crit.

((.05*.5)+1)*250 = 256.25

((.15*.7)+1)*232 = 256.36

Even without crit mods or headshots, it's almost exactly even on DPS.

8 hours ago, HyokaChan said:

I'm pretty sure Gas is better if you had bigger damage so each singular proc would have more impact.

Yes, if it would actually proc status effects, which it doesn't, because the current Atomos' "10% per second" is effectively nothing. Besides, when it comes to damage over time, there is no practical difference between a larger number of weaker procs and a smaller number of stronger ones, if the weapons are equal in DPS and damage type proportions.

Seriously, apart from the 0.8 second ramp up, this is a huge buff. OP and anyone else who likes Atomos has nothing to worry about.

[DawnFalcon]

Actually if you do the calculations, DPS goes from 256.25 to 265.36. So basically identical.  (Crit damage is going from x1.5 to x1.7, and 5% to 15%, making up the difference)

Unlike other beam weapons, which are getting a buff (except the Cycron) to some degree.

 

A bigger concern for me, though, is the amo efficiency (already bad, and you're getting a ~10% cut in total avaliable firing time) combined with only 8.75 seconds fire per clip and the spoolup time. Not sure if a x3.36 proc rate chance offsets that (and it needs to jump at least once to get comparable proc rates to other beam weapons!)

[Shonaney]

The trade dmg to firerate and the slightly increased ammo (to 350 even if the patchnots just say 300 hope thats not a bug but intended), makes the changes less noticeable but feels like reloading all the time :D, maybe increase the clipsize to 80 or even 90.

But the zoom nerf sucks please think about that, i want to aim, i want to do some headshots and not just spray and pray.

[Periselene]

Alright I admit I was wrong.. it's quite weaker when used for viral/radiation purpose because repeated status application doesn't provide a benefit, though the status is now reliably put on any chained enemy

 

HOWEVER when modded for corrosive or gas the Atomos is now much more powerful than before, I should have waited until playtesting to voice my concerns

[ObviousLee]

You know, after some testing on a lot of the beam weapons, I've found that overall yes the damage has gone down. But that isn't at all what actually matters. What does matter is the time to kill, which on most of the weapons(atomos included, as with embolist) has dropped hilarious amounts. Beam weapons now fill the same function as sniper rifles do for crit: bring the enemy down in rapid order. Really, spend a few hours in the simulacrum and do in depth testing. You'll find that although the old functionality is null, there's new avenues of murder to use for even better effect. 

[DawnFalcon]

1 hour ago, Periselene said:

HOWEVER when modded for corrosive or gas the Atomos is now much more powerful than before, I should have waited until playtesting to voice my concerns

Honestly, I don't think you were, in terms of playing missions rather than just simulating small batches on them in the simulacrum. It drops off heavily against higher level enemies because of the magazine and amo limits. If they were increased by 25-30%, it'd be a much better weapon.

[Periselene]

10 hours ago, DawnFalcon said:

Honestly, I don't think you were, in terms of playing missions rather than just simulating small batches on them in the simulacrum. It drops off heavily against higher level enemies because of the magazine and amo limits. If they were increased by 25-30%, it'd be a much better weapon.

I use carrier 99% of the time because ammo is a really frustrating thing in this game. I routinely run out when I'm using a smeeta.

I've been taking the new Atomos into floods and sorties and the goofy thing is that it and all other beam weapons are so insanely effective at armor stripping that Radiation is now really kinda useless, it takes LONGER to kill a bombard with Radiation in comparison to Corrosive

Edited February 22, 2018 by Periselene

[Leqesai]

13 hours ago, Periselene said:

Alright I admit I was wrong.. it's quite weaker when used for viral/radiation purpose because repeated status application doesn't provide a benefit, though the status is now reliably put on any chained enemy

 

HOWEVER when modded for corrosive or gas the Atomos is now much more powerful than before, I should have waited until playtesting to voice my concerns

Take note of the bold text my fellow warframe community members.

[Terrornaut]

I can now take this to level 100+ stuff with Ember instead of having to ditch it at that point for pox.  I run corrosive+heat for the corrosive procs, and it strips. Its not crazy amazing, sure, and even with a very great riven (3-4 forma + multishot+dmg riven) vs a 3 forma Amprex (with no riven and with or without HM) it seems to be equal, but, I'm happy with it.  Its definitely a pretty big change more at the higher end even if the base damage is lower. Its...weird, but overall its better I'm feeling.

But then again I multiply a fair portion of its damage by 7.2x soooo ?

3 hours ago, Periselene said:

I've been taking the new Atomos into floods and sorties and the goofy thing is that it and all other beam weapons are so insanely effective at armor stripping that Radiation is now really kinda useless, it takes LONGER to kill a bombard with Radiation in comparison to Corrosive

I play Ember vs grineer or corrupted mostly but...the only purpose I've found for radiation is the CC, or killing bolkors on the plains. Otherwise corrosive+anything has always been more effective

15 hours ago, Periselene said:

HOWEVER when modded for corrosive or gas the Atomos is now much more powerful than before, I should have waited until playtesting to voice my concerns

Pls everyone learn from this person.  While this isn't always applicable, in a case where fundamental systems are being changed and numbers don't have any equivalent meaning (beam 2.0 vs beam 3.0), yeah, people cool it. People freaked out about amprex losing crit not realizing that its doing more damage than before and more efficient, etc. Slow and cheeeeeeel

Edited February 22, 2018 by Terrornaut

[AcceptYourDeath]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Periselene:

HOWEVER when modded for corrosive or gas the Atomos is now much more powerful than before, I should have waited until playtesting to voice my concerns

You might also get rid of thinking about DPS. It`s hardly a proper indicator for weapon performance in Warframe, that`s more a WoW thing people like to apply and is misleading in most cases.