Forma, Polarities, and all the new Weapon Buffs.

[LuckyCharm]

Hey All, 

As you're probably all aware we've just had a round of weapon buffs, we're about to get changes to the beam weapon system, and Melee were getting looked at as well. I think it's about time that weapon polarities get addressed, and how they're handled. Currently you forma a weapon, and are locked into that polarity. Forma again and you gain another locked polarity. To the point where your build is now complete. 

Here's the problem. Many of the weapons, Especially the beam weapons with their upcoming changes, have dramatically had their stat's altered to the point where you need to build them different ways. Take the Atomos for example. With the proposed changes it's getting changed from a gun that relied heavily on base damage to a gun that relies a whole lot on status and crit. Both status and crit mods need V polarites whereas to make the most of base damage you'd use the 90% elementals which had -'s. To make your weapon do it's optimal damage you need to reforma 3-4 slots just to fit the new build which is a whole lot of forma if you have to do it for multiple weapons.

Please let us either have a one-time change to all our weapons forma'd polarities to get our builds to function correctly again, or make forma'd polarities universal. I'd opt for the former purely because universal polarities negate a lot of the drawbacks to formaing a weapon. Getting the statlines changed completely on our weapons wasn't really what we expected when we put the hard work into making them the best that they could be when they were the stats they are. 

[Sqecmi]

but... 8 forma is 1.5 hours at hydron...

[Varzy]

Just go to hydron.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 33 minutes, Sqecmi a dit :

but... 8 forma is 1.5 hours at hydron...

 

il y a 29 minutes, Varzy a dit :

Just go to hydron.

Not everybody is a Hydron/Ol'Draco baby who rushes to rank up weps.

---------------------------------------------------

I do feel like DE changed them a bit much. They nerfed the range of every Beam primaries except Quanta (Vandal), nerfed the damage, buffed the Fire Rate to 12 for all but Ignis (Wraith) and nerfed the damage of almost every Beam wep except Synapse and Amprex, but nerfed they're CC (and CD? don't really remember the base CD of those two).

Basicaly, they're all.... extremely homogeneous. Similar/identical Fire rate, similar damage (don't think any of those will have more than 45-50 base damage), all will have either medium/good Status, crit or even the two. So, in short, they'll all be able to do the same thing pretty much the same way. Before, we had Raw damage weps, Status weps and Crit ones. Now, we'll only have either Status or Crit. Raw damage is gone, even if it was just fine against non-Grineer enemies. 

They gave us tons of Reactor when they introduced the changes, but few formas and no catalyst, even if there are hundreds of weapons compared to dozens of Warframes. Those changes are a pain for pretty much everybody who's not sitting on a pile of Forma in the middle of Hydron waiting for their stuff to be maxed.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Blade_Wolf_16

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

13 minutes ago, Sqecmi said:

but... 8 forma is 1.5 hours at hydron...

 

8 minutes ago, Varzy said:

Just go to hydron.

People apparently don't have the time, patience, or resources you do, thank you very much.

[(PSN)Croewe]

Hydron.

[SweatyFalcon]

Bere does a tad more IMO

[LSG501]

Yeah, as others have said, it's all very well doing all these changes but there doesn't appear to be any affinity booster or forma compensation to speed up any re-levelling due to in some cases quite large changes in how they need to be built etc.

 

It's all very well saying got to hydron or bere and it will only take you a few hours to 'fix' a weapon but that's assuming that you actually have enough forma laying around to do the changes, yes I know they're relatively easy to get but not all of us stockpile them and we did just need to do changes to a load of other weapons and frames too...

I've got at least 2 of the items being reworked forma'd so assuming I need to change a couple of forma on each that's basically my 'game time' gone for one whole night, if not a bit more... I really love having to 'redo' things I've already done and already have a huge dislike for (levelling stuff is just boring as hell), and just think what it will be like for those who have more than one or two and want to 'fix' all of them. 

 

So I support the idea of universal forma polarities, it would actually open up the possibilities of more builds on warframes too because often as not we end up compromising other builds when we forma for a main or meta build on a frame or weapon.... wait wasn't there a blog post about trying 'non meta' setups, universal forma polarities would actually help with this too.

 

As a side... also got to agree about the 'overflowing' amounts of orokin reactors of late... I have 20+ reactors and about 3 catalysts.  There is a very high bias towards reactors in my experience of late.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by LSG501

[LuckyCharm]

My issue isn't putting the forma onto weapons, its the 35x primary weapons, 21x secondaries and handful of melee  i own over 4 forma each (i have a lot of others under 4x, that pretty much all now need a reforma or two to reoptimise them for the new  build paths. Thats a hek of a lot of forma to farm and build, or to buy. Hydron isn't the issue. The issue is I've spent and built forma for a ton of weapons that need to be redone now. Sure not all of them need much change but some need a whole lot. And now I need a whole ton more forma blueprints just to redo all the work I'd just done.

 

So yeah, thanks for your "just do hydron" comments, but its really "just spend the next 3+ weeks opening relics and longer building forma, then run hydron for one weapon a day while waiting for the next one to build"

 

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

My issue isn't putting the forma onto weapons, its the 35x primary weapons, 21x secondaries and handful of melee  i own over 4 forma each (i have a lot of others under 4x, that pretty much all now need a reforma or two to reoptimise them for the new  build paths. Thats a hek of a lot of forma to farm and build, or to buy. Hydron isn't the issue. The issue is I've spent and built forma for a ton of weapons that need to be redone now. Sure not all of them need much change but some need a whole lot. And now I need a whole ton more forma blueprints just to redo all the work I'd just done.

 

So yeah, thanks for your "just do hydron" comments, but its really "just spend the next 3+ weeks opening relics and longer building forma, then run hydron for one weapon a day while waiting for the next one to build"

 

You knowingly Forma'd those weapons given the nature of the game. What does DE owe you?

[LuckyCharm]

6 hours ago, peterc3 said:

You knowingly Forma'd those weapons given the nature of the game. What does DE owe you?

The nature of the game? When in the past besides damage 1.0-2.0 have de touched the entire weapon arsenal at once? 

[Tecness]

13 hours ago, Sqecmi said:

but... 8 forma is 1.5 hours at hydron...

No, 8 Forma is 8 days.

[Oreades]

Honestly what I want to see happen with polarities is that you only ever have to re-level something once per new polarity. 

If you are changing a polarity it just consumes a forma, no re-leveling required. 

You still had to get the forma, you still had to spend the forma but you aren't penalized a second time for changing a polarity that already existed on the weapon. 

I think that would go a long way to taking the edge off of a lot of the bigger/sweeping changes as well as improve overall QoL.

[Xzorn]

It probably wouldn't feel as bad if Affinity gains weren't so horribly skewed.

Note the players saying " Go here, Go There " ...isn't that kinda what's wrong with leveling items in this game?

Leveling an item through normal game play is ridiculously slow by comparison to these hotspots or stealth and majority of these hotspots are not fun by your 100th hour. So we're really not getting a good experience with either choice. Alternative affinity gains really need more work IMO. Objective Bonuses, Wave Rotation Bonuses, Mission Complete Bonus and even the silly "Get 10 melee kills" thing that none of us bother to read anymore.

It also doesn't help that Affinity gains based on enemy level have decaying returns ensuring that quantity over quality always wins.

[taiiat]

honestly, what do you entirely expect - what is there to sell from adjusting Equipment that currently exists? to get Players to use their Foundry(i.e. come back more than once), change their Polarities and/or put on different Mods... AKA spend time in the game.
otherwise, Equipment would likely just never get changed period, because there'd be nothing to sell from doing it. compared to major additions for drawing new eyes. (even though there's plenty of things Players have been openly willing to buy over the years that still isn't for sale but i digress)

i think the better angle to tackle is making XP not on the level of where "completely uninteresting might as well AFK" is the general description of what it does in the game.

30 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Leveling an item through normal game play is ridiculously slow by comparison to these hotspots or stealth and majority of these hotspots

to be fair, those popular hotspots are basically all complete garbage in Public because it's not even remotely close to Optimal or fast anyways :D
on the extreme rare occasion i go to a popular Public Mission for XP i end up remembering to not bother and leave because it's basically equal in efficiency as playing a Survival with a split up Squad.

(i know, that's not really making it any better... and yes Objectives, Mission Tasks and anything else that can hopefully add more to do than stand around waiting for a Timer while clicking on random dudes should be leveraged to make XP less boring and feel like a pointless trope to have due to it not being interesting to work with)

Edited February 22, 2018 by taiiat

[TheLexiConArtist]

20 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Please let us either have a one-time change to all our weapons forma'd polarities to get our builds to function correctly again, or make forma'd polarities universal. I'd opt for the former purely because universal polarities negate a lot of the drawbacks to formaing a weapon.

Customary repost of my old concept that fits somewhere in between the two options. Not a one-time change, and also doesn't invalidate the drawbacks (because it still requires the extra investments):

 

[Sloan441]

On 2/21/2018 at 8:47 AM, _Ruby_Rose_ said:

Bere does a tad more IMO

Just don't get pissy when the Axi farmers want to go four rounds. 

Frankly, I just do survivals in the mid to highish levels (25-40). A good 30min session will max a gun and actually give you a chance to see the improvements (or at least the changes) in action. Also, it's just more fun. 

 

[SweatyFalcon]

26 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Just don't get pissy when the Axi farmers want to go four rounds. 

Frankly, I just do survivals in the mid to highish levels (25-40). A good 30min session will max a gun and actually give you a chance to see the improvements (or at least the changes) in action. Also, it's just more fun. 

 

Eh,  I'm usually the EV 
So I don't mind
What node do you frequent for those survivals.

[Sloan441]

45 minutes ago, _Ruby_Rose_ said:

What node do you frequent for those survivals.

Kinda depends if there are people there. 

I usually start off with Titan. It's a bit low to start, but you'll almost always find a few folks there doing whatever. They'll often go 30-45min if they've got any kind of support. The lower MR folks are usually delighted with a longish run and it's fun when everyone is on board and running hot. 

Mot is very good, but often abandoned. If anyone is there, it's fun and you don't get to see the Void nearly enough these days. 

Selkie is the best of the lot, but Titan usually has the better map layout. You'll find folks here occasionally and it ramps up quickly if you want to see what the gun can do when things get a bit more serious. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Sloan441
Because moon names all look alike.

[(PSN)FLEX_LINEAR]

13 hours ago, Tecness said:

No, 8 Forma is 8 days.

Only if you need to craft 8 forma in the foundry .

[Skaleek]

I've sunk over 20 forma into weapons(that were fully forma'd and finished) since these changes. The 3 forma bundle they gave me was a pittance. It's a problem for me.