Latest Nerfs

[True_Naeblis]

Have to agree. If you want click once and glance over now and then to watch the game play itself there are plenty of browser and mobile games offering that now. I don't understand the draw of it in the least, but it exists if that's what you want, so if you do go play them. Leave WF as is. Ember's nerf makes almost no difference at lower levels, which is the only content where that sort of thing should even been slightly acceptable anyway.

[PowerofTwo]

2 hours ago, Lyravain said:

Mate, there's plenty of ways to cheese the crap out of Warframe. Asking for the ability to pretty much afk-play is too much. Again; if you're so tired you can't play Warframe, go play another kind of game (I know I do). But asking for the entire game to be essentially boiled down to 'I press a button to gain stuff' is literally wanting a clicker game with better graphics. It's just not what Warframe is.

What warframe is means 100 things to 50 people, it's not exactly a directed experience. The *cough* helpfull community provides feedback and if we feel DE has really screwed the pooch on something they will uuuuusually back down, or at least adress / fix the issue (in the usual DE timeline of 6+ months). Was just expressing what WF is for me. 

 

(And there arn't alot of thing thing in WF that are 'i press button to gain stuff' --- scratch that there ARE but they all come from specialization and that in turn comes from having a massive collection of things, you can do 3 lvl 40+ spies perfectly on ember, for ex if you feel like it, might wana consider loki, ivara, etc for it tho. You CAN do a lvl 3 sortie defence eximus stronghold with 4 saryns, might wana consider limbo tho...

[Lyravain]

2 hours ago, PowerofTwo said:

What warframe is means 100 things to 50 people, it's not exactly a directed experience. The *cough* helpfull community provides feedback and if we feel DE has really screwed the pooch on something they will uuuuusually back down, or at least adress / fix the issue (in the usual DE timeline of 6+ months). Was just expressing what WF is for me. 

And yet, one thing everyone agrees about Warframe is that it's an 'action game'. Shooter, looter, melee, ninja-simulator, those can be argued back and forth. But everyone agrees it's an action games. And action games are judged by them having action. That is; you are constantly doing things. And asking for frames that do not do things makes the game not action. In other words; not Warframe.

[BlackVortex]

On 1-3-2018 at 1:32 PM, SaiTaMa_OpM said:

I love that Warframe updates as much as it does. How it pumps out new Warframes often enough for the players to keep hooked and work the existing Warframes as well. 

But I feel that it's catering to a certain type of players and abandoning the rest of the player base. The Nerfs to the Warframe force players to be active or be #*($%%@. For players who are working and studying and just play Warframe for their daily those of fun it's becoming boring, annoying. After a long day I would rather chill and farm exp and rank my weapons, progress in the game without constantly being forced to put in energy I am depleted of. 

If the players want action they can try harder game modes or try out new builds and have fun. I would just like some Warframes to be left as they are.

The game feels so demanding. I can't play the game for fun and relaxation anymore. When I look at Warframe in my library I don't feel eager to play, rather I feel an overwhelming wave of annoyance. 

 

although I dont have the same cause for not wanting things to change, I do feel that these nerf just cater to a specific type of player

I've been playing this game for about 5 years now, and this game used to be a tactical rpg like action fighter shooter game, everything in one

anyone that denies that has not been playing this game long enough

people that say it's supposed to be something different.... go play CoD or Battlefield and leave Warframe the way it has always been like, don't like it? instead of trying to change it, just leave!

these are the things that make Warframe Warframe.

once all the changes these people want have been put in effect, it will be nothing more than a pure action shooter game, which will be outclassed by many other games available

as someone else has said: this game is cannibalizing itself, once there's nothing unique left, this game will be dead

in any case, don't listen to the negativity from the players that responded to your post, those are just a big group of people that I dislike and can now happily add to my ignore list :)

cheers!

Edited March 3, 2018 by BlackVortex

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Did you just basically ask DE to stop balancing frames because it's not fair to players that want to get credit for being afk? Cuz that's what i read. 

If you don't want an active game then find another one to play. This was never intended to be one where you can get the most effort with the least work. They just made it possible with poorly designed abilities that players learn to exploit... they're working to remedy that mistake with each rework. 

[BlackVortex]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Did you just basically ask DE to stop balancing frames because it's not fair to players that want to get credit for being afk? Cuz that's what i read. 

If you don't want an active game then find another one to play. This was never intended to be one where you can get the most effort with the least work. They just made it possible with poorly designed abilities that players learn to exploit... they're working to remedy that mistake with each rework. 

blablabla intended blabla

this game has always been a game where you could either go for action or go for tactics, essentially eliminating work by using your head and making proper builds

it has ALWAYS been like this.

dont like it? go look for another game and stop trying to change the game into something you want it to be

 

I've been playing this game because these are the aspects about the game I like, I like speed running and this type of gameplay requires cheesing through missions, why should I go look for a new game just because this game wasnt exactly what you wanted, heck, why did you even keep playing this game you apparently didnt like at all?

Edited March 3, 2018 by BlackVortex

[Sloan441]

On 3/1/2018 at 8:45 AM, Volinus7 said:

 

Basically, Warframe being tedious is the cause and Warframe being broken balance/difficulty wise is the effect. 

Sounds like someone needs a new game. Seriously. 

[Spectre-8]

On 3/1/2018 at 2:32 PM, SaiTaMa_OpM said:

I love that Warframe updates as much as it does. How it pumps out new Warframes often enough for the players to keep hooked and work the existing Warframes as well. 

But I feel that it's catering to a certain type of players and abandoning the rest of the player base. The Nerfs to the Warframe force players to be active or be #*($%%@. For players who are working and studying and just play Warframe for their daily those of fun it's becoming boring, annoying. After a long day I would rather chill and farm exp and rank my weapons, progress in the game without constantly being forced to put in energy I am depleted of. 

If the players want action they can try harder game modes or try out new builds and have fun. I would just like some Warframes to be left as they are.

The game feels so demanding. I can't play the game for fun and relaxation anymore. When I look at Warframe in my library I don't feel eager to play, rather I feel an overwhelming wave of annoyance. 

 

Maybe this game is not for you anymore .

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 3/3/2018 at 5:41 AM, BlackVortex said:

dont like it? go look for another game and stop trying to change the game into something you want it to be

There's an important piece of this conversation that keeps getting left out, which is why this is my last contribution to this conversation. 

I'M not the one changing it. WE aren't the ones. DE is the one changing it, proving without a doubt that certain kinds of "cheesing" it are off limits because it literally ruins the game for everyone else, or because it doesn't fit with what DE intended. Either way, it's clearly evolved beyond the simple aspects of the game that held your interest.

So, thanks for playing. Buh-bye now. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by (PS4)Riko_113

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

Warframe has always been time intensive, which I was okay with because you put in your time and got something cool at the end. 

The problems arise though in the time invested to grind for something and if it can keep you engaged... I hate to be "that Tenno", but if you live in the real world, with a job, kids, and the like; leaving maybe 2 hours a day to farm an event that lasts a week and contains rewards that are semi-necessary to play the game... Good luck ever getting anything! Especially, mathematically speaking, to be able to actually get the event rewards you'd have to farm 9 hours a day for 2 weeks, which is impossible... 

The end result is to cheese the crap out of the game for the end rewards. Not so you can enjoy the game, but so that you might be able to not have to cheese the next time. The player is forced into using cheese methods because time is a real factor as well as getting rewarded for that time! 

In a game all about the end rewards, once you have the reward you cease to play... 

Why not rethink the game and play for fun instead of rewards? Because in Warframe, if you don't get the correct reward you can't progress in the way the game is designed. 

[(PSN)Deathscythex01]

On 3/1/2018 at 3:56 PM, AcceptYourDeath said:

That`s what Warframe has become lately, a playerbase who can`t be asked to play the game anymore. 

Because we have no reason to play anymore. No endgame, no new modes, nothing. "go do sorties or farm rivens" its one in the same. Sorties is probably the worst addition to warframe in my opinion. If rivens were in something other than the mind numbing sorties people would be more inclined to farm them. 

Point is there's really nothing worth it anymore in warframe so why put in the effort. I mean DE isnt really putting any effort in to make a decent attempt at an endgame for players so why should we as players put any effort into playing the game.

Edited March 4, 2018 by (PS4)Deathscythex01

[PatternistSlave]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

WE aren't the ones.

The hell you aren't.  I see your threads asking for nerfs and so does DE.

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

The hell you aren't.  I see your threads asking for nerfs and so does DE.

We aren't.

DE are the ones who read the threads - both the nerf threads and the anti-nerf threads - and decide what to do about them.

The "stop trying to appropriate the game" argument cuts both ways. You want the game to be a certain way, and others want something different. But DE makes the call, and people are given the right to provide feedback.

[BlackVortex]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

There's an important piece of this conversation that keeps getting left out, which is why this is my last contribution to this conversation. 

I'M not the one changing it. WE aren't the ones. DE is the one changing it, proving without a doubt that certain kinds of "cheesing" it are off limits because it literally ruins the game for everyone else, or because it doesn't fit with what DE intended. Either way, it's clearly evolved beyond the simple aspects of the game that held your interest.

So, thanks for playing. Buh-bye now. 

they nerf because of all the people whining, which make out about 5% of the WF community, but hey, whoever cries hardest wins

[BlackVortex]

16 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

We aren't.

DE are the ones who read the threads - both the nerf threads and the anti-nerf threads - and decide what to do about them.

The "stop trying to appropriate the game" argument cuts both ways. You want the game to be a certain way, and others want something different. But DE makes the call, and people are given the right to provide feedback.

There will always be people crying for nerfs, as long as DE doesnt nerf something, people will keep crying about it

nerfing something will make other people cry, but at least it wont last much longer than a few months, thats how DE thinks

its pure logic

the amount of topics being created for the opposite thing of nerfing, making something overpowered, are negligeble or none

[KirukaChan]

It sounds to me, OP, that you want Warframe to be an idle game. There's a million of those godawful mobile port shovelware titles on Steam that'll satisfy those requirements while happily nickel and diming you. Warframe's core combat is too good to be wasted on a casual experience, and I say that as a full-time worker whose first order of business after an 8 hour shift is to sign into Warframe and see what flavor of Sortie is being served that day. Bleeding my enemies for their villainy is very relaxing for me after 8 hours of having to do what other people tell me to, and when I see something I can sink my teeth into, I like the kills to be as intimate as possible.

While I don't all the changes made to Ember because of what it did to Firequake, or all the changes made to Mag because of how much of an energy guzzler she is now, I know that nothing is ever set in stone (especially with how quickly DE backpedaled on the Vivergate nerfs). Most of the Frame reworks have actually made the Frames in question more viable for late game content (i.e. Saryn, Hydroid, Excalibur), and I'm confident that Frames who are left on the shelf to gather dust will get another balance pass at some point.

[DiabolusUrsus]

50 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

There will always be people crying for nerfs, as long as DE doesnt nerf something, people will keep crying about it

nerfing something will make other people cry, but at least it wont last much longer than a few months, thats how DE thinks

You have amazing insight into how DE thinks. Are you part of their design team?

50 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

its pure logic

It's fearmongering and conspiracy theorizing; nothing more.

50 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

the amount of topics being created for the opposite thing of nerfing, making something overpowered, are negligeble or none

Are you joking? Every other day at least there is some rambling anti-nerf thread that pops up, just like this one.

Thing is, they typically don't have more to say than "X is garbage now; game is ruined and this sucks."

Maybe if these threads made more logical points with adequate explanation they would get more traction?

[BlackVortex]

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

You have amazing insight into how DE thinks. Are you part of their design team?

you only need 2 working brain cells to be able to know this

 

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

It's fearmongering and conspiracy theorizing; nothing more.

nope pure logic, less people crying on the forum on a daily basis

 

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Are you joking? Every other day at least there is some rambling anti-nerf thread that pops up, just like this one.

Thing is, they typically don't have more to say than "X is garbage now; game is ruined and this sucks."

Maybe if these threads made more logical points with adequate explanation they would get more traction?

who said anti-nerf thread? perhaps you should read my comment again

I said threads to make things OP(i.e. give Atlas a WoF like ability that kills everything in one hit, even nullifiers), not a thread to cry about a nerf

big difference

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, BlackVortex said:

you only need 2 working brain cells to be able to know this

You only need 2 working brain cells to recognize a biased assumption for what it is.

1 hour ago, BlackVortex said:

nope pure logic, less people crying on the forum on a daily basis

Logic is not the same thing as getting caught in the vice-like grip of paranoid confirmation bias. Did you forget the two massive batches of significant buffs that just rolled out?

Obviously DE only listens to nerf threads! /s

1 hour ago, BlackVortex said:

who said anti-nerf thread? perhaps you should read my comment again

I said threads to make things OP(i.e. give Atlas a WoF like ability that kills everything in one hit, even nullifiers), not a thread to cry about a nerf

big difference

No there isn't a big difference.

You suggested that DE only receives and listens to nerf threads, but anyone who actually reads the Forums should see that isn't the case.

People don't write "Make X OP" threads because X is already OP. That's why they write "don't nerf X" threads instead.

Therefore, I consider both types of thread mostly equivalent.

[Ezekeel666]

I like the feeling of getting better at a game. The only measure I have for that is how often I fail or at least have to struggle to complete some part of the game. If the game content is so trivial that I can beat it while being nigh-afk then there is no challenge and no possibility of failing, thus robbing me of my sense of skill progression.

[BlackVortex]

13 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

You only need 2 working brain cells to recognize a biased assumption for what it is.

Logic is not the same thing as getting caught in the vice-like grip of paranoid confirmation bias. Did you forget the two massive batches of significant buffs that just rolled out?

Obviously DE only listens to nerf threads! /s

No there isn't a big difference.

You suggested that DE only receives and listens to nerf threads, but anyone who actually reads the Forums should see that isn't the case.

People don't write "Make X OP" threads because X is already OP. That's why they write "don't nerf X" threads instead.

Therefore, I consider both types of thread mostly equivalent.

there's no point in arguing with someone biased as you

you pretty much acknowledge that there are no "Make X OP threads"

which was what I was talking about, but you just try to twist and turn it into something you think is equivalent to something else

which it isn't

thanks for proving my point

Edited March 6, 2018 by BlackVortex

[PatternistSlave]

On 3/4/2018 at 5:25 PM, DiabolusUrsus said:

We aren't.

DE are the ones who read the threads - both the nerf threads and the anti-nerf threads - and decide what to do about them.

The "stop trying to appropriate the game" argument cuts both ways. You want the game to be a certain way, and others want something different. But DE makes the call, and people are given the right to provide feedback.

We are.  DE makes decisions based on our threads as you acknowledge.  The OP thinks your nerf threads are BS.  "people are given the right to provide feedback".

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

We are. 

We aren't.

Quote

DE makes decisions

^On at least some level you are aware of this.

Quote

based on our threads as you acknowledge.

Except that they don't ever make changes identical to those proposed in individual threads. They may look to feedback for general guidance on what issues exist that require examination, but their course of action is always their own.

Quote

The OP thinks your nerf threads are BS.  "people are given the right to provide feedback".

Notice that I'm not trying to suppress your feedback, though. I'm not getting angry at you because your opinion is different, and I'm not mistakenly trying to blame you for my problems.

Maybe if your feedback was less "nerf hate" and more "Nerf X will not solve the problem because reason Y, and you should try Z instead" you would see more favorable changes.

A good example of this would be the proposed Damage 2.5 getting postponed for further revision based on the community rejecting it (due to good reasoning, like impact ragdoll being counter-productive or puncture damage debuffs being useless when applied to single enemies).

Obviously if all you can say is "nerfs are BS," nobody (except those with similar bias) is going to listen. Nerfs are a vital balancing tool, and using only buffs is not sustainable.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that DE flubs some of their nerfs pretty badly, but trying to reject nerfs simply because they are nerfs is not constructive at all.

5 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

there's no point in arguing with someone biased as you

thanks for proving my point

Ah, yes. The "I know you are, but what am I?" defense.

Let me put it this way: correlation does not imply causation. The two huge sets of meaningful buffs should be enough to show you that.

Question: which recent nerfs in particular are you most bothered by?

I'll readily agree that Ember's nerf caused more problems than it solved, but that's the only real "bad" one that springs to mind.

[ikkabotz]

You mention it feels like you're being abandoned in the game, but honestly being the player on the opposite end of the stick having to watch somebody stand there and do nothing killing off all the gameplay aroubd you is pretty damn lame.

What's all the controversy about, game was and still is "easy mode", or am I some type of savant and prodigy missing something more complex to all of this? You can still space out quite easily. I don't know where you're getting off on saying the game feels so demanding, I want to hear more about that.

Personally I never found Ember particularly fun, but useful for leveling. I'd only take her into Hydron to leave the game running in a window leveling up weapons and occupied by a YouTube video or whatever else. There's a history of AOE getting reduced, Mesa was changed, Saryn lost her Miasma, this. .Banshee. .then there's Mirage and the Synoid Simulor nerf, etc. .but I think if you reapproach your thought you'll still find ways of exploiting the game. It just changes over time.

Sorry, pressing 4 to win is a dying strategy in this game and I'm all for it. 

Nothing new about it, just happens to hit probably the most over-hyped frame for damage and puts players in the position to think about something different than a press 4 to win scenario. There's still ways to be exceedingly mindless and exceedingly inactive in the game, so you'll be fine. You'll have to take it on the chin like those players did before you. I can't recall a time DE has retracted a nerf, especially on a frame.

Edited March 6, 2018 by komoriblues

[BlackVortex]

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

We aren't.

^On at least some level you are aware of this.

Except that they don't ever make changes identical to those proposed in individual threads. They may look to feedback for general guidance on what issues exist that require examination, but their course of action is always their own.

Notice that I'm not trying to suppress your feedback, though. I'm not getting angry at you because your opinion is different, and I'm not mistakenly trying to blame you for my problems.

Maybe if your feedback was less "nerf hate" and more "Nerf X will not solve the problem because reason Y, and you should try Z instead" you would see more favorable changes.

A good example of this would be the proposed Damage 2.5 getting postponed for further revision based on the community rejecting it (due to good reasoning, like impact ragdoll being counter-productive or puncture damage debuffs being useless when applied to single enemies).

Obviously if all you can say is "nerfs are BS," nobody (except those with similar bias) is going to listen. Nerfs are a vital balancing tool, and using only buffs is not sustainable.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that DE flubs some of their nerfs pretty badly, but trying to reject nerfs simply because they are nerfs is not constructive at all.

Ah, yes. The "I know you are, but what am I?" defense.

Let me put it this way: correlation does not imply causation. The two huge sets of meaningful buffs should be enough to show you that.

Question: which recent nerfs in particular are you most bothered by?

I'll readily agree that Ember's nerf caused more problems than it solved, but that's the only real "bad" one that springs to mind.

Obvisously Ember, since a range build wasn't really that usefull in Endgame anyway and now you just have to recast it, making just Energy Conversion totally useless on the build, but I guess you agree there.

The chorma nerf was uncalled for

the problem with this nerf is that now it adds base damage instead of total damage, I used to hit around +560-570% over total damage iirc, now its ~888 over base damage

if you i.e. had 100 damage on your rifle, +165 serration +165 heavy calibur + 300 riven, and a +500% buff over total, you would get 730*6= 4380 damage

now the calculation with +800% goes: 730+800 = 1530, thats almost 1/3rd of the old damage

so they killed Chroma, but AFAIK Octavia is still a total damage modifier... so why nerf Chroma and not Octavia?

 

now the real problem lies with Banshee

about 2 years ago DE released an augment for Soundquake, now I know the DE team is pretty good and math, or at least some of them are, because there are some very nice mathematical calculations in combinations of certain mods which just cannot be a coincidence, so Im pretty sure they made Soundquake and meant for it to be used in the way it was used

if you say DE wasn't aware it was going to be used in this manner, you are just saying that DE is incompetent in game design, because they made something that could be abused so easily without their knowledge... well Im pretty sure they were aware of it prior to releasing it, and thought it was a nice element in the game and the only reason it got nerfed(it can still be abused, just not as good as before, you cast Resonance, and start macro spamming your Resonating Quake meanwhile getting energy from Zenurik to infinitely spam) was because there were people in PUBLIC matches that were getting annoyed by it

I put PUBLIC in capitals because those matches you just have to suck up any of the gameplay style your teammembers is rolling, you know this in advance, whether they are rushing or slow as a snail, leveling gear or killing everything, you just deal with it, or don't go public

Edited March 6, 2018 by BlackVortex