Why you don't see Nezha | Warframe -LifeofRio

[Trickst3rGawd]

Wall of text incoming.

 

"A lot a players ask "why is nezha not not endgame or good for endurance runs" I'm going to try to be as honest as possible. Of you're a nezha main can we please be honest I'm the comments? Try to avoid favoritism.

So first let me give you clarification on why  I use a frame for an endurance run. Ah wait now let me clear up another thing before that clarification. Any frame can go to 1 hour(MOT). That's not a problem. All any player has to do is have a strong weapon. The majority of weapons in warframe will take you to an hour. We can take that off the board. Nezha can go there.

So now the clarification. Why don't I take nezha to endurance runs? Because in endurance runs you start depending on the synergy and everything else you need from the frame. Now when I look at nezha and look at certain frames , I try to see what unique creativity I can come up with. How this frame is gonna synergize with other frames that I'm running with. So when I look at nezha I start thinking.."okay Nezha's good for go getting life support. The speed, the quick shield that's gonna die (warding Halo) but you just use it for the little invincibilty phase."  You don't need that anymore. Operators can become iinvincible and do it with less effort.

Now the next thing that I look at is a frame that can actually help buff the team synergy as in like damage. You need the extra kills and stuff to properly yourself to get further into the survival. Right? Nezha doesn't buff at all. We:all take that off the board.

Nezha's not looking to good right now...next thing Ill look at is CC. Nezha has some cc right? Put on firewalker and run around. "Momma there goes DAT man". No it's not good enough CC. It's pretty bad. Nezha's fourth ability. When divine spears was first shown , that he could summon those spears I was like wow that's great CC. But then after we messed around with it..anyone knows that Nezha's 4 is terrible vs ancients and nullfiers destroy them quickly. The other bad thing about it is the second animation (after the count down is over) forces nezha to slam them. If the slam did something unique or creative that would be nice but..it just interrupts game play.

With all of those reasons being said..there is no reason for me to bring nezha. I'm sorry to the people who want to see me use nezha in endgame and everything else like that. I'm going to be honest. If I took nezha to an endurance run right now with a group of 3 other warframes...I would be getting carried. I will be providing no form of support. Divine spears would fall off and my team mates wouldn't be able to depend on it.

His third ability..I know someome is going to be like "Life of rio have you ever tried Nezha's augment?? *snooty sound*". And I'm like bro the augments aren't even good.."but you can give team synergy with the shield (warding halo). You know like giving rhino's iron skin to teammates." 

No that thing is honestly terrible. It's okay for lower level to mid level content. A lot of people don't do endurance runs and they proceed to say nezha is fine. 

Now let's see..does nezha synergize with any frame? No that's off the board."

-Life of Rio.

 

Okay so that's the gist of it. With all this being said..coming from a warframe partner and if you look at the current nezha threads in the forums and Reddit with them saying the same thing, I'm going to throw out some ideas that would make nezha a better endurance frame as well as a better frame in general.

1. Fire Walker : This skill is pretty good as it is. CC, cleanses status, and has potential to deal damage with its augment. The only issue I have is that the width is too skinny and the energy cost is too high.

Request: As well as the reduced drain, have fire width and sprint speed scale with range and strength respectively ( Sometimes when I run around or through enemies to cc with fire walker I sometimes miss an enemy due to how skinny fire walker's radius is. I'd like to see if be affected by range and unfurl..more like a wave of fire behind him, or at least in a cone.)

2. Blazing Chakram: This is where most of Nezha's issues lie. Blazing Chakram can inflict a heat proc, knock down an enemy, heal nearby allies if enemies hit are killed, and Nezha can teleport to his Chakram while it's mid-flight, causing a fire explosion if Firewalker is active. Sadly, almost every part of this has issues.

• The heat proc/Knockdown is okay CC, but a lot of times the Chakram just becomes impossible to aim. It seems to just bounce off enemies without doing anything at times, and other times an ally being a little too close will cause it to bounce off of them and go anywhere else. 
• If Nezha does manage to hit an enemy, allies have to be within (a small) range of the enemy to receive the heal
• When Nezha hits an enemy with Chakram, they often ragdoll a bit, often moving out of range for a heal
• There's no indicator of what enemies are hit by Blazing Chakram other than the heat proc, but when Firewalker is a thing is becomes hard to tell.
• Pretty much nobody enjoys Firewalker being turned off when teleporting. It then costs more energy to turn Firewalker back on
• The Teleport explosion doesn't really do much other than a heat proc. The damage is pitiful.

Request: Give Blazing Chakram the "bladestorm treatment". Allow us to mark enemies then the Blazing Chakram will auto target the enemies we mark. If we choose not to target enemies we can still use it to teleport. Also make the teleport a bit more smooth, and make this ability scale with range. Hold 2 to mark enemies and release to launch it. This will allow for fun, cc, and mass healing once allies kill the targets.

3. Warding Halo: Another good skill. While not as strong as Iron Skin, it has some CC and can be put on allies with the augment. It'd be nice if there were a way to restore it's health though. Rhino is already tankier than Nezha, but he also has a way to restore his Iron Skin. Nezha has to wait for his Halo to run out (if running out of bounds is not an option), then use a decently long cast time to regain Warding Halo. This makes Nezha much more vulnerable, and in higher levels he gets shredded easily. 

Request: make it bigger , scale with range mods,change it from an iron skin effect to a self centered area of effect damage mitigater that works on self and allies in the radius while scaling up to 95% with some strength mods. This would give him a good bit of survivability because his health and shields are already low. This will also serve to make him a better supportive player with his wading halo augment.

Why change that ability so much? Well rhino's iron skin is way better then Nezha's warding halo. Iron skin works really well with its near instant 0.5 cast time.  The augment allowing for mid skin recasts and aoe stun are good. Iron skin also scales with armor so, Health conversion, steel fiber and Rhino charge augment get you some nice 100,000-300,000 skins. Warding halo is ..ehm a bit broken. It's like a broken version of the same skill, with 1.5 seconds cast time means it can't be used in combat to take advantage of the scaling as death is almost always the outcome in high leveled content.

4. Divine Spears: Pretty good CC, even if the casting time is a bit long. However, that ending animation...either remove it or make it a 1-handed action. Too many times has it been a nuisance. It stops the player from firing their weapons and reloading, which can leave them a sitting duck and force them to restart their reload timer. Also I find it hard to keep up the cc when another enemy enters the vicinity.

Request: scrap the second animation (where he drops enemies to the ground or the ability ends) and instead of keeping that we can make it to where casting it again picks up new enemies that are in the area, similar to Equinox's sleep.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[helioth137]

good post, yes this frame needs more attention.

*every frame needs some form of scaling mechanic, they got it right with gara for instance; when you envelope enemies in glass with vitrify they now add their shields + health to your aoe glass shields... nezha could work like this; the more fire you spread/ divine spears you inflict, the harder your chakram hits & wider range of its effect is, as well as the great the amount you shield yourself & allies for is. 

and yes i agree warding halo takes too long to cast, nezha is like a discount rhino... only, you get nezha much later.

[Trickst3rGawd]

7 hours ago, helioth137 said:

good post, yes this frame needs more attention.

*every frame needs some form of scaling mechanic, they got it right with gara for instance; when you envelope enemies in glass with vitrify they now add their shields + health to your aoe glass shields... nezha could work like this; the more fire you spread/ divine spears you inflict, the harder your chakram hits & wider range of its effect is, as well as the great the amount you shield yourself & allies for is. 

and yes i agree warding halo takes too long to cast, nezha is like a discount rhino... only, you get nezha much later.

That's such a great idea!

[helioth137]

Glad you appreciate the idea. Seems kind of obvious to me. But then sometimes the first ideas are the best.

In my opinion All Frames Need to be able to scale with Enemy levels and have 1 Unique nicht or they get ignored I would really like to play NEZHA but putting forma or a greater lens on him in the state he is in is a no go for me.

Edited March 4, 2018 by helioth137

[LuckyCharm]

I take nezha 9/10 times over rhino for anything. He's great and literally the only thing i'd change is his blazing chakram skill to have a straight line punch-through  or enemy tracking. Other than that, he's a much better frame than people make him out to be and he's far more viable for solo players than some other frames. Warframes don't always need to "scale" they just need to be good at what they do, and nezha is. 

He's a fast, mobile fighter that skirts in and out of fights, while remaining status proof. He's not supposed to be a tank, or a heavy cc frame and I'm not sure why people try to force him to be one while comparing him to rhino

[Trickst3rGawd]

10 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

I take nezha 9/10 times over rhino for anything. He's great and literally the only thing i'd change is his blazing chakram skill to have a straight line punch-through  or enemy tracking. Other than that, he's a much better frame than people make him out to be and he's far more viable for solo players than some other frames. Warframes don't always need to "scale" they just need to be good at what they do, and nezha is. 

He's a fast, mobile fighter that skirts in and out of fights, while remaining status proof. He's not supposed to be a tank, or a heavy cc frame and I'm not sure why people try to force him to be one while comparing him to rhino

We're trying to get him to be a better damn support frame as well. He has no niche whatsoever and his abilities are clunky as hell. He needs tweaks and I don't care if people think otherwise.

[LuckyCharm]

19 minutes ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

We're trying to get him to be a better damn support frame as well. He has no niche whatsoever and his abilities are clunky as hell. He needs tweaks and I don't care if people think otherwise.

Hes not a "damn support frame". If you want a support frame then play one. There are many many many others to pick from. He's not a healer because his chakram range is short and niche, doesn't give overshields, has no skills that buff, his cc wears off quickly and his warding halo augment cuts it's effectiveness. 

But since you seem intent on parroting a streamers words..

Firewalker: Skill is good, it removes status effects effectively making you immune to things like heat procs, toxin procs, slash procs etc that are the main cause of death besides ramping damage. 

Blazing chakram- needs its bounces removed and needs punch through added so you can actually teleport places effectively without worrying about bounces. Maybe a faster throw animation. Other than that it does what it's supposed to. 

Warding halo: Makes you immortal while casting so it's cast time is NOT a hinderance contrary to what people think. It's HP when built correctly is effective upto sortie level enemies, and if you're dodging around enough you don't often lose it for quite a while. Which nezha can do because he's not a fat slow lump like rhino.

Divine spears- Fine for a nuke, cc is a short reprieve from fights, could stand for a little more base range to bring it up to par with other nuke abilities in game but it's still a decent skill. Cast time is long but it's not the worst nuke skill by far. 

 

As for saying you don't care if people think otherwise.. well I don't very much like your tone. He's already sortie viable, i use him there all the time. He's already effective at what he does and he's already a fun niche pick who's only weakness really is nullifiers and comba's, until you're already at levels that break your halo quickly, in which case, you probably shouldn't have picked nezha for a 2hr extended run when there's plenty of more effective options. 

Not everyone shares your opinion that he needs major tweaking, so stop assuming that just because your favourite streamer does that hes broken. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

45 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Hes not a "damn support frame". If you want a support frame then play one. There are many many many others to pick from. He's not a healer because his chakram range is short and niche, doesn't give overshields, has no skills that buff, his cc wears off quickly and his warding halo augment cuts it's effectiveness. 

But since you seem intent on parroting a streamers words..

Firewalker: Skill is good, it removes status effects effectively making you immune to things like heat procs, toxin procs, slash procs etc that are the main cause of death besides ramping damage. 

Blazing chakram- needs its bounces removed and needs punch through added so you can actually teleport places effectively without worrying about bounces. Maybe a faster throw animation. Other than that it does what it's supposed to. 

Warding halo: Makes you immortal while casting so it's cast time is NOT a hinderance contrary to what people think. It's HP when built correctly is effective upto sortie level enemies, and if you're dodging around enough you don't often lose it for quite a while. Which nezha can do because he's not a fat slow lump like rhino.

Divine spears- Fine for a nuke, cc is a short reprieve from fights, could stand for a little more base range to bring it up to par with other nuke abilities in game but it's still a decent skill. Cast time is long but it's not the worst nuke skill by far. 

 

As for saying you don't care if people think otherwise.. well I don't very much like your tone. He's already sortie viable, i use him there all the time. He's already effective at what he does and he's already a fun niche pick who's only weakness really is nullifiers and comba's, until you're already at levels that break your halo quickly, in which case, you probably shouldn't have picked nezha for a 2hr extended run when there's plenty of more effective options. 

Not everyone shares your opinion that he needs major tweaking, so stop assuming that just because your favourite streamer does that hes broken. 

The majority shares my opinion :P i've mad countless threads mentioning this and the majority always agreed. The only reason why the thread isn't hot is because everyone is worried about the "Ember nerf" lol. Didn't DE say he was support one time?

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

The majority shares my opinion :P i've mad countless threads mentioning this and the majority always agreed.

You mean the majority of people who read a thread that was obviously based on the idea that Nezha needs serious improvements. The Forums are a salt mine and everyone wants buffs, so naturally the majority of people replying are going to agree with you when you say "________ sucks" on the Forums. You really can't take that as a reflection of the larger population of Warframe.

On what @LuckyCharm said, Nezha is my go-to Warframe for basically any Sortie. He's fast, has tons of utility and his augments help idiot-proof the rest of my squad. The only thing I would improve is enemy tracking or casting speed on Chakram. (Or punchthrough like Lucky suggests, that'd work too.)

By the way, about Divine Spears' deactivation animation, Nezha skips it if you kill all effected enemies before the duration runs out. If you don't, the animation slams enemies to the floor for extra damage.

EDIT: If we're adding to Nezha though, you make a good point that every Warframe should have access to scaling damage in some form. Perhaps if the slam from Divine Spear deactivation dealt Finisher damage, percent Health damage or Armor/Shield reduction. This would give Nezha more tactical options: quick-deploy CC with a cast of 4, significant damage with a double-tap of 4.

Edited March 5, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

You mean the majority of people who read a thread that was obviously based on the idea that Nezha needs serious improvements. The Forums are a salt mine and everyone wants buffs, so naturally the majority of people replying are going to agree with you when you say "________ sucks" on the Forums. You really can't take that as a reflection of the larger population of Warframe.

On what @LuckyCharm said, Nezha is my go-to Warframe for basically any Sortie. He's fast, has tons of utility and his augments help idiot-proof the rest of my squad. The only thing I would improve is enemy tracking or casting speed on Chakram. (Or punchthrough like Lucky suggests, that'd work too.)

By the way, about Divine Spears' deactivation animation, Nezha skips it if you kill all effected enemies before the duration runs out. If you don't, the animation slams enemies to the floor for extra damage.

EDIT: If we're adding to Nezha though, you make a good point that every Warframe should have access to scaling damage in some form. Perhaps if the slam from Divine Spear deactivation dealt Finisher damage, percent Health damage or Armor/Shield reduction. This would give Nezha more tactical options: quick-deploy CC with a cast of 4, significant damage with a double-tap of 4.

That sounds awesome as well!! Someone from a long time ago threw said that it would be noce if we could shooot the tips of divine spears and do damage to the enemies imaaled would be a nice addition as well. Ground finisher damage is pretty bad to be honest so it gives a strong alternative and more of a reason to use his 4

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

~snip~

i also like him as well. i agree with all the QoL you've suggested for him too. 9 times out of ten if i dont play a frame its because there are 34 frames. people always say they main this or that. i main them all.

[Trickst3rGawd]

7 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i also like him as well. i agree with all the QoL you've suggested for him too. 9 times out of ten if i dont play a frame its because there are 34 frames. people always say they main this or that. i main them all.

:D awesome! Thanks for the feedback.

[DeliciousDoob69]

This is a copy paste comment from your other Nezha post, just thought I'd post it again. 

On 3/3/2018 at 12:55 PM, Trickst3rGawd said:

1. Fire Walker : This skill is pretty good as it is. CC, cleanses status, and has potential to deal damage with its augment. The only issue I have is that the width is too skinny and the energy cost is too high.

Request: As well as the reduced drain, have fire width and sprint speed scale with range and strength respectively ( Sometimes when I run around or through enemies to cc with fire walker I sometimes miss an enemy due to how skinny fire walker's radius is. I'd like to see if be affected by range and unfurl..more like a wave of fire behind him, or at least in a cone.)

I think his Firewalker ability is practically perfect IMO, I honestly don't want any changes to this at all. Adding range to the equation is only asking for problems to arise and forcing Nezha to worry more about how to mod. His speed all ready lets him spread that glorious fire everywhere with no issue. If they had to make a change to this at all I would be okay with speed scaling with strength. I would take a little wider fire trail, but no range mods affecting it. The augment for this ability is probably my favorite augment in the game, no doubt.

On 3/3/2018 at 12:55 PM, Trickst3rGawd said:

2. Blazing Chakram: This is where most of Nezha's issues lie. Blazing Chakram can inflict a heat proc, knock down an enemy, heal nearby allies if enemies hit are killed, and Nezha can teleport to his Chakram while it's mid-flight, causing a fire explosion if Firewalker is active. Sadly, almost every part of this has issues.

• The heat proc/Knockdown is okay CC, but a lot of times the Chakram just becomes impossible to aim. It seems to just bounce off enemies without doing anything at times, and other times an ally being a little too close will cause it to bounce off of them and go anywhere else. 
• If Nezha does manage to hit an enemy, allies have to be within (a small) range of the enemy to receive the heal
• When Nezha hits an enemy with Chakram, they often ragdoll a bit, often moving out of range for a heal
• There's no indicator of what enemies are hit by Blazing Chakram other than the heat proc, but when Firewalker is a thing is becomes hard to tell.
• Pretty much nobody enjoys Firewalker being turned off when teleporting. It then costs more energy to turn Firewalker back on
• The Teleport explosion doesn't really do much other than a heat proc. The damage is pitiful.

Request: Give Blazing Chakram the "bladestorm treatment". Allow us to mark enemies then the Blazing Chakram will auto target the enemies we mark. If we choose not to target enemies we can still use it to teleport. Also make the teleport a bit more smooth, and make this ability scale with range. Hold 2 to mark enemies and release to launch it. This will allow for fun, cc, and mass healing once allies kill the targets.

 This sounds weird but possibly really cool, let me share my take on what needs to be done with Blazing Chakram. While Firewalker is active Blazing Chakram should create a line of fire when thrown mimicking Firewalker. The base range should increased to somewhere around 15m at least and the speed it travels should be increased slightly as well. The healing affects of this ability should heal Warding Halo as well as health. Lastly when I teleport to Blazing Chakram and I have Firewalker active it shouldn't turn off my Firewalker. It should still do the flame burst thing while Firewalker is active, but it shouldn't deactivate my ability, this massively hampers the use if his Pyroclastic Flow augment.

On 3/3/2018 at 12:55 PM, Trickst3rGawd said:

3. Warding Halo: Another good skill. While not as strong as Iron Skin, it has some CC and can be put on allies with the augment. It'd be nice if there were a way to restore it's health though. Rhino is already tankier than Nezha, but he also has a way to restore his Iron Skin. Nezha has to wait for his Halo to run out (if running out of bounds is not an option), then use a decently long cast time to regain Warding Halo. This makes Nezha much more vulnerable, and in higher levels he gets shredded easily. 

Request: make it bigger , scale with range mods,change it from an iron skin effect to a self centered area of effect damage mitigater that works on self and allies in the radius while scaling up to 95% with some strength mods. This would give him a good bit of survivability because his health and shields are already low. This will also serve to make him a better supportive player with his wading halo augment.

This is another ability that I think is mostly fine as is, but it could use a few QoL changes. Range should never be factored into this ability, it should just be a base 3m (one meter larger than it is currently). The animation should be drastically sped up to avoid dying while casting. One extra second during the invulnerable phase of this ability would go a long way as well for survivability. I like the idea of supporting the team with this ability, but isn't that why we have the Safeguard augment. I don't think your purposed change sounds terrible, but it would make the Safeguard augment useless or broken depending on how the mechanics would work.

On 3/3/2018 at 12:55 PM, Trickst3rGawd said:

4. Divine Spears: Pretty good CC, even if the casting time is a bit long. However, that ending animation...either remove it or make it a 1-handed action. Too many times has it been a nuisance. It stops the player from firing their weapons and reloading, which can leave them a sitting duck and force them to restart their reload timer. Also I find it hard to keep up the cc when another enemy enters the vicinity.

Request: scrap the second animation (where he drops enemies to the ground or the ability ends) and instead of keeping that we can make it to where casting it again picks up new enemies that are in the area, similar to Equinox's sleep.

I'm pretty much right there with you on this change. Scrap that damn animation it's totally unneeded and just a huge hamper to Nezha. I would like to add another change that I think would be amazing to this ability though. Someone else suggested this so I can't take the credit, but IMO it's genius and simple. Any damage done to the spears also damages the target. This doesn't seem like a huge deal, but it is, let me explain why. This ability lifts enemies off the ground, Nezha's Firewalker creates flames on the ground, pretty much this negates the flames of Firewalker (what was DE thinking). Also sometimes (not in all cases) it can be difficult to land melee attacks, depending on the animation the attack will slip right under the target. If damage dealt to the spears transferred to the target being held this would clear up this problem. 

Nezha holds a place in my top 3 favorite frames with Ivara and Volt, I can't choose which one I love the most. I would love to see some QoL tweaks come his way, and I'm always happy to see people posting about him. Thanks for posting it's always nice to see what people think should be changed, and I always have fun posting my two cents on the subject. Thanks for reading everything I had to say if you got this far, and happy hunting Tenno! 

[Trickst3rGawd]

5 hours ago, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

This is a copy paste comment from your other Nezha post, just thought I'd post it again. 

I think his Firewalker ability is practically perfect IMO, I honestly don't want any changes to this at all. Adding range to the equation is only asking for problems to arise and forcing Nezha to worry more about how to mod. His speed all ready lets him spread that glorious fire everywhere with no issue. If they had to make a change to this at all I would be okay with speed scaling with strength. I would take a little wider fire trail, but no range mods affecting it. The augment for this ability is probably my favorite augment in the game, no doubt.

 This sounds weird but possibly really cool, let me share my take on what needs to be done with Blazing Chakram. While Firewalker is active Blazing Chakram should create a line of fire when thrown mimicking Firewalker. The base range should increased to somewhere around 15m at least and the speed it travels should be increased slightly as well. The healing affects of this ability should heal Warding Halo as well as health. Lastly when I teleport to Blazing Chakram and I have Firewalker active it shouldn't turn off my Firewalker. It should still do the flame burst thing while Firewalker is active, but it shouldn't deactivate my ability, this massively hampers the use if his Pyroclastic Flow augment.

This is another ability that I think is mostly fine as is, but it could use a few QoL changes. Range should never be factored into this ability, it should just be a base 3m (one meter larger than it is currently). The animation should be drastically sped up to avoid dying while casting. One extra second during the invulnerable phase of this ability would go a long way as well for survivability. I like the idea of supporting the team with this ability, but isn't that why we have the Safeguard augment. I don't think your purposed change sounds terrible, but it would make the Safeguard augment useless or broken depending on how the mechanics would work.

I'm pretty much right there with you on this change. Scrap that damn animation it's totally unneeded and just a huge hamper to Nezha. I would like to add another change that I think would be amazing to this ability though. Someone else suggested this so I can't take the credit, but IMO it's genius and simple. Any damage done to the spears also damages the target. This doesn't seem like a huge deal, but it is, let me explain why. This ability lifts enemies off the ground, Nezha's Firewalker creates flames on the ground, pretty much this negates the flames of Firewalker (what was DE thinking). Also sometimes (not in all cases) it can be difficult to land melee attacks, depending on the animation the attack will slip right under the target. If damage dealt to the spears transferred to the target being held this would clear up this problem. 

Nezha holds a place in my top 3 favorite frames with Ivara and Volt, I can't choose which one I love the most. I would love to see some QoL tweaks come his way, and I'm always happy to see people posting about him. Thanks for posting it's always nice to see what people think should be changed, and I always have fun posting my two cents on the subject. Thanks for reading everything I had to say if you got this far, and happy hunting Tenno! 

No problem! Thank you for your feedback..hey I really like the idea of shooting the spears to deal damage to impaled enemies because ground finishes are clunky and they don't kill most of the time.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I solo sortie 3 defense easily with nezha. Build for duration and max range. Pop ur 4... Then run around and kill everything with melee... Rinse repeat.

Otherwise, max duration and his 1 will take out any and everything else in any mission. Keep in mind his 1 takes care of status procs. 

[ComradeHX]

I would mind if 1 only has activation cost, no continuous drain.

Edited March 7, 2018 by D20
Keep it clean