What if deluxe skins weren't tied to specific Warframes?

[Isca]

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

The way I view the skins, they aren't specific to a Warframe without some kind of lore. Take the Palatine, Knave, Pnuema and Striga skins, none of the exactly exclaim that particular Warframes "identity." 

What? Palatine Rhino is blatantly the most Rhinoey of all Rhino skins. A big hulking ironclad warrior with a massive horn? How does that fail to exclaim his identity?

[MagPrime]

5 minutes ago, Isca said:

What? Palatine Rhino is blatantly the most Rhinoey of all Rhino skins. A big hulking ironclad warrior with a massive horn? How does that fail to exclaim his identity?

I think base Rhino is the Rhinoiest of all Rhino skins and Palatine could be used on other melee Warframes, like Excal, or even Volt - they have horns too. 

If sheer physical size is the key, then the skin would work on Chroma and Atlas as well, they are large, hulking types.  

Edited March 4, 2018 by MagPrime

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, rapt0rman said:

Indeed, I'm pretty much just arguing on the internet. I probably could have stopped after

@MagPrime And more clarification, I'm not staying it doesn't matter that you have an opinion. It's very much an opinion that the skins don't share the themes of their original frames. And it's my opinion that they do.

What doesn't matter is "there's no direct lore, so I can say something is, what it isn't", cause that's pretty much just a fallacy (whether or not you add in the part about your opinion on the skins not fitting the frame). It's what DE says it is whether it's directly in game or not. 

You're stating the obvious and then trying to deflect actual conversation by belittling someone's opinion.

Claiming my opinion is a fallacy is also an opinion, by the way.  

If you're here to just argue, I'm gonna put you on ignore.  But If you're trying to have an actual conversation, that isn't centered around telling someone their opinion doesn't matter, I'm open to it.

But since you've made it abundantly clear you find my opinion meaningless, I'm not sure what there is for us to discuss.

[Lion]

I actually wouldn't mind that, but it'd run into a crap load of issues. Things like Chroma for example - where would his pelt go? Animations (Chroma is much taller than Mag - so the fire from chromas 1 would be coming either out of her eyes or just above her head model.) 

[Fishyflakes]

delet this

[Soulden]

Only If I can use companion deluxe skins on Warframes and Operators as well, "it will just be awesome".

If not, meh, defeats the purpose.

[Hypernaut1]

Only if I can also use a captain Vor skin on any frame. Or a bombard skin. Or Ugandan knuckles! It's just a cosmetic!

[Loswaith]

The problem with this is it would require adding power animations for every frame, so with the current 34 frames that is some 136 different power animations.  That would then result in the game needing to have a huge 4624 animations available so any model could use any power.  Thus in essence needing the DE animation team to add some 4488 animations.

Likewise for any time DE add a new frame they then need to add animations for that power set to every currently existing frame and every currently existing frame to that new frame.  This additional work would end up resulting in maybe us getting a single frame per year or fewer and the work itself would likely be much more buggy due to the rush. 
Also that extra work would need to be paid for, so we would see either exceptionally high plat cost on all the frames or a hefty additional cost on gaining the ability to use the animations (these aren't minor tweaks like the idle animations).

Sure some frames likely share skeletons (one universal skeleton is highly unlikely as it wouldn't work as well) reducing the animation work but every one of them would still need tweaking for their specific skin and power.

I'd personally prefer DE spend that time elsewhere.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Loswaith

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

16 hours ago, Isca said:

No thanks. Each deluxe skin had been crafted to compliment or augment the identity of the frame it was made for, and for me seeing a Nidus running round with Mag or Trin deluxe skin, for example, would just be jarring.

 

[Artekkor]

I believe that this is not a good idea. As many people pointed out - the idea of something like Octavia running Rhino Palpatine skin is ridiculous.

We already got uni-warframe animation sets, and that's already pushing things to limits (like rhinos with Titania or Mirage animations).
However, even that makes more sense, because as we already know - you are changing your warframe but you are not changing your CHARACTER. The shell is different, but the person inside is the same. So its fine for your Rhino to use Mirage set, if every other warframe in your collection does so too, representing your operator's (or yours) personality.

But with skins its a different story.
Warframes are TOOLS. They are WEAPONS. Build with specific design to do specific things. They are filters that take your operator's raw energy and make something else out of it.
Just like design and mechanisms make the difference between desert eagle and a revolver.
Mesa has her finger-guns (for those who unaware - she uses her fingers as hammers) because they are a part of her kit, they are a part of what kind of tool she is.

I imagine it like this: the warframe skins change the shell of the warframe, but they dont change his innards. Whatever allows octavia to turn music into physical weapon - the mechanism for that stays inside. Outside, even! I mean, the mandachord is literally build into her hands and when you edit your mandachord tracks - you can see her hand in front of you. with the mandachord being a part of the hand. We're just gonna replace that with Ash's blade hand? Or Proto-Excaliburs one?
I dont think that's a good idea.

The uni-gun skins make slightly more sense, especially if the skin is some kind of energy weapon and you can make energy weapon operate in any form (althoguh mesa's deluxe guns need a custom reload animation badly) and i dont understand DE's reasoning for making new octavia gun skin boltor-exclusive (perhaps it changes the skin of bolts that are shooting out too, and that's why they cant apply it to hitscans? someone should clarify that).

 

TL:DR
Warframes are tools.
You can change how a tool looks like, but you cant change how it works.
Warframes' design is not just aesthetic, but a representaion of what kind of tool they are.
Examples: Octavia's mandachord, Ash's hidden blades, Mesa's Pistols, etc. We are just going to remove them / give them to warframes that do not use them in their kit?
If ever implemented - it will look ridiculous and extremely immersion breaking (not that warframe had much to begin with, but still).
My honest opinion - this is a bad idea that does not has enough ground to stand on.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Artek94

[[DE]Grzegorz]

19 hours ago, Loswaith said:

The problem with this is it would require adding power animations for every frame, so with the current 34 frames that is some 136 different power animations.  That would then result in the game needing to have a huge 4624 animations available so any model could use any power.  Thus in essence needing the DE animation team to add some 4488 animations.

Likewise for any time DE add a new frame they then need to add animations for that power set to every currently existing frame and every currently existing frame to that new frame.  This additional work would end up resulting in maybe us getting a single frame per year or fewer and the work itself would likely be much more buggy due to the rush. 
Also that extra work would need to be paid for, so we would see either exceptionally high plat cost on all the frames or a hefty additional cost on gaining the ability to use the

...I would like to introduce you to the concept of skeletal animation and animation blending which have long ago overtaken the mainstream and almost completely replaced their predecessor called vertex animation (which required model to be manually edited to suit any kind of animation it would have to perform, think snapshots kind of deal).

This argument is simply ridiculous and shows that your knowledge about animations is at the very least severely outdated, 20 years old kind of outdated.

[Loswaith]

2 hours ago, JuicyButthurt said:

...I would like to introduce you to the concept of skeletal animation and animation blending which have long ago overtaken the mainstream and almost completely replaced their predecessor called vertex animation (which required model to be manually edited to suit any kind of animation it would have to perform, think snapshots kind of deal).

This argument is simply ridiculous and shows that your knowledge about animations is at the very least severely outdated, 20 years old kind of outdated.

Or you could have read the very next paragraph where I specifically comment about the skeletal animations, rather than just choosing to ignore it.

One skeleton doesn't do every single phenotype, no matter how much you think it would.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Loswaith

[Obviousclone]

kinda takes the warframe out of warframe really. Y'know, the characters we play as?

 

When I see some a saryn orphid, I think hey that's saryn. When I see loki knave I think hey that's loki. When I see them both pull out exalted blades I think "somethings up". Ember is THE fire warframe, if I see what looks like someone else using fire it just looks wrong and detracts from her identity as the be all end all fire type warframe.

 

there's a perfectly good reason why helmets and bodies are all exclusive to their respective warframes and why DE is so selective about adding more. It's because those warframes identities tied to them; ones that don't seem obvious to the more untrained player. Every single ember helm has that fire motif going on. Every single banshee helm or frost helm fits their themes too. Atlas's helms lack necks to make him look like a mountain. Equinox has duality, Inaros is a pharaoh. The list goes on.

Also it would be a pain to rig/set up. Every major update that has happened, go check the bugfixes and I guarantee you're going to find "we fixed this syandana that bugged out on this specific skin/prime". they can't even have universal syandanas be bug free, so why would you want to escalate the amount of downtime they spend patching bugs with this?

Edited March 6, 2018 by Obviousclone

[Trickst3rGawd]

Such stupidness..can't believe some players are defending this.

[Sean]

Wouldn't mind it, though would be better if it was more where a deluxe skins could apply to a few frames instead of all (as that would be a near-impossible task).

Octavia's skin would work on Mirage, Ember's would work better on Zeyphr, Nyx's could work on Excalibur.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

They are not jus simple coloured skins that can be slapped onto a different character model.

Most of them even seem to add extra textures and shape to their original character model so to be able to share 1 deluxe skin over 30 frames, means the developers have to make the skin able to apply correctly across the different character models effectively making 30 skins for the price of 1.

I doubt they will wanna do that.

[Vlada91]

On 4.3.2018. at 11:31 AM, CaptainZgred said:

Please, no. Deluxe skins were designed to fit an actual character and design of a warframe, it would result in some hilarious situations such as Excalibur running around with Octavia skin

You know DE Rebb have Lotus skin and can use on all frames. And we can have all female deluxe skins for all female frames,and samw think with male.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

9 hours ago, Loswaith said:

Or you could have read the very next paragraph where I specifically comment about the skeletal animations, rather than just choosing to ignore it.

One skeleton doesn't do every single phenotype, no matter how much you think it would.

Gee I wonder how we can use every single Noble and Agile animation on all frames. How it is possible for Lotus skin to work on all frames or how it all worked on all frames in Recovery mission.

Could it be that every single Warframe uses the exact same armature for animations?

I'll patiently wait for you to show a single example where one generic armature wouldn't fit all Warframes.

Edited March 6, 2018 by JuicyButthurt

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

From a technological standpoint, sure, I'd say it's possible, albeit it taking a bit of work.

Yet I can't say DE would be open to the idea at all. I personally don't like the idea myself, not really because it would make telling Warframes apart any harder (half the time I mistake Harka Frost for Palatine Rhino anyways), but it would create a sort of bad mentality in my eyes. You'd be suggesting that removing a Warframe or weapons identity is okay. I get that we can use different idle animations, but that's not making Nekros go to the gym and turn into Rhino, using all of his animations kind of weird. 

At least to me, it'd then bring up the topic of universal skins for everything, not just Warframes. So now, instead of having a skin limited to Glaives, you could slap it on a Heavy Blade and have the awkward Heavy Blade attacks on a Glaive. There are universal skins for guns, but no matter what you do, it's pretty apparent you're using a pistol. That wouldn't really be the case with a universal Warframe skin. I feel DE cares less about the identity of a firearm or Melee weapon, and more about a Warframes identity, hence why it hasn't happened yet. Besides, even the current universal skins don't step out of their limited type. Personally, I'd see it as nonsensical to add the Perla Pistol Skin to all Primaries as well. It's a pistol skin. So when I look at Nekros' Deluxe, the same thought process occurs, it's Nekros' skin and his alone. 

More Fashionframe is always good, but I think this would be drawing the line, for me and DE, who seem hellbent on keeping a Warframes identity generally identifiable at first glance (though what do I know, that Nezha Deluxe looks nothing like him). Though in truth, I think it'll never happen because of the extra work involved for what would amount to little payoff. If not that, it'd go against DE's own feelings on the matter.

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by (XB1)Graysmog

[CaptainZgred]

On 6.03.2018 at 9:55 AM, Vlada91 said:

You know DE Rebb have Lotus skin and can use on all frames. And we can have all female deluxe skins for all female frames,and samw think with male.

That's such a bad argument I won't even bother to counter it

[Vlada91]

20 minutes ago, CaptainZgred said:

That's such a bad argument I won't even bother to counter it

Im just saying that its possible in some way and that's it. If DE fix to fits properly then all can look ok and normal...

[[DE]Grzegorz]

/thread