The starting frames need to change

[Gree26]

in my opinion, we have plenty of frames that make a good replacement for bolt and mag. 2 very powerful but more advanced frames. We have frames like Ivara and rhino. Both powerful without needing a good mod setup and already are very accessible to most players. I just think that a new players first experience should not be confusion. 

 

Those are just what came to mind. I'm sure there are better options but the current frames volt and mag are just not a good frame to start with. (Obviously Excalibur is a perfect starting frame)

[MagPrime]

Why aren't they good starting frames?

They're fairly up front in their abilities and offer late game options for niche builds. 

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

They're perfectly fine for starting frames tbh.

[Gree26]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Why aren't they good starting frames?

They're fairly up front in their abilities and offer late game options for niche builds. 

No, to a new player the are just squishy. You have to admit mags abilities are not a good learning tool for a new player. Volt requires a duration mods to make him anywhere usable, especially when you don't have any survivability mods 

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

I agree rhino needs to replace mag as a starter frame. 

[Gree26]

6 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Why aren't they good starting frames?

They're fairly up front in their abilities and offer late game options for niche builds. 

Along with that, as for mag, why does a new player need to strip armor and when will they be facing glarge hordes. It just doesn't make sense to me

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

No, to a new player the are just squishy. You have to admit mags abilities are not a good learning tool for a new player. Volt requires a duration mods to make him anywhere usable, especially when you don't have any survivability mods 

I actually don't have to admit that...

Mag was my starter, and I'm pretty sure you can guess my primary choice, and I found her to be extremely effective at teaching tactics and helping teammates.

1 minute ago, Gree26 said:

Along with that, as for mag, why does a new player need to strip armor and when will they be facing glarge hordes. It just doesn't make sense to me

Polarize not only strips shields but does damage, wiping out entire mobs.  So, it's kinda perfect for a horde situation.

[EndermanBeast]

11 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

in my opinion, we have plenty of frames that make a good replacement for bolt and mag. 2 very powerful but more advanced frames. We have frames like Ivara and rhino. Both powerful without needing a good mod setup and already are very accessible to most players. I just think that a new players first experience should not be confusion. 

 

Those are just what came to mind. I'm sure there are better options but the current frames volt and mag are just not a good frame to start with. (Obviously Excalibur is a perfect starting frame)

you spelt Volt wrong...

 

Also, why? The starter frames are good, because they're starter frames, not end-game frames. Like what you want, with Ivara (? She's much more complicating to play for new players than say, Mag.) and Rhino.

[DSpite]

You are not going to get Ivara as a starter. She is "locked" behind what can be a nightmarish amount of Spy runs (could take you hundreds of runs to get her), compared to getting Volt - which is just "join a dojo, get blueprints - or Mag - get some mates that have the node unlocked and run missions.

What I'm saying here, is that everyone would pick Ivara because it instantly removes the "grindy" Frame from the list, ie the hardest to get afterwards.

The same thing will happen when a new Frame with an "unbalanced" hard-to-get system is swapped out.

EDIT:

As far as Rhino being a starter (again? wasn't he at some stage?) Iron Skin trivialized the entire low-middle Star Chart. Even starting out and just gradually adding Mods, you almost never drop the single Iron Skin cast you can do at the start of the mission. Maybe not the best learning Frame? Kinda like having a training bike with 4 wheels.

Also, Excalibur "was" far more balanced at the start. Switching on the Ultimate now is another Star Chart instant room cleaning machine. It's a bit OP on stuff below 30.

Edited March 6, 2018 by DSpite
Rhino and Excal mention.

[aligatorno]

Ivara is an awful choice for a starter frame. Your argument for Volt is that he needs a certain mod to be good. Ivara needs a lot of mods to be good overall. 

She needs lots of energy, she needs lots of duration or lots of efficiency, she needs a well built primary so that her Artemis Bow can actually do something, she's very slow compared to the rest and is incredibly squishy. So you contradict yourself a lot by setting her as an example. 

The now starte frames are good enough, all 3 of them can be played with basic mods without suffering too much, all of them can be turned into absolute monsters with the right mods. None of them require specific mods to be useful. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by aligatorno

[TheGrimCorsair]

Hard disagree. All three of the starters are excellent choices as they're very strong when played to their strengths and, given the general difficulty of stating content, give you time to learn the ins-and-outs of them. All three require you to do more than brute force content as levels climb yet their strength drops off gradually enough to give players time to learn their strengths and weaknesses in a fairly controlled manner. You've got Excalibur as the in-your-face option, Volt as the consummate all-rounder, and Mag as the longer-ranged positioning-oriented option.

Rather, what needs to change with the starting frames right now is for them to have better, clearer descriptions at time of choosing that give players a clearer picture of what they're getting into.

Should a stealth frame get added to the list of starters, my vote would be for Ash given he's a pretty straight-forward frame that cloaks and kills while having generous amounts of HP with little else in his kit (not harping on Ash, mind, killing is his business and he's damned good at it), though as DSpite above points out, the likelihood of DE doing such would mean that choosing Ash would allow you to circumvent grinding his parts by hunting Manics which isn't something DE is at all likely to do.

[Duavey]

You can’t have Ivara, on the grounds that a new frame must have a damage dealing 1 ability to clear Vor’s Prize.

 

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Duavey said:

You can’t have Ivara, on the grounds that a new frame must have a damage dealing 1 ability to clear Vor’s Prize.

 

Good point, I forgot about that.

[MBaldelli]

30 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

No, to a new player the are just squishy. You have to admit mags abilities are not a good learning tool for a new player.

Remember when Loki was a starter frame?  Yeah, you should.  'nuf said. 

[peterc3]

Played for years and my starter was Mag and I have yet to quit the game. Rhino is one of the first frames you are able to craft after picking your starter. Ivara is a nightmare for a new player. The starters need to be straightforward and easy to use without piles of mods. They need to let you learn the game before utterly breaking it, the reason you'd never see Trinity as a starter.

[Gree26]

4 minutes ago, MBaldelli said:

Remember when Loki was a starter frame?  Yeah, you should.  'nuf said. 

Yes, I started with Loki and it was frustrating. Now my friends who recently joined chose those two and died constantly where as in the past my other friends who chose Excalibur were just fine. 

[Gree26]

33 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I actually don't have to admit that...

Mag was my starter, and I'm pretty sure you can guess my primary choice, and I found her to be extremely effective at teaching tactics and helping teammates.

Polarize not only strips shields but does damage, wiping out entire mobs.  So, it's kinda perfect for a horde situation.

I am aware it does more than just strip armor, however the enemies you are introduced to are grineer. Along with that I'm not only saying it's usefulness is bad to a beginner, I am also saying that it is way to confusing. We have nothing that explains what the mechanics actualy mean.

[Gree26]

5 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Played for years and my starter was Mag and I have yet to quit the game. Rhino is one of the first frames you are able to craft after picking your starter. Ivara is a nightmare for a new player. The starters need to be straightforward and easy to use without piles of mods. They need to let you learn the game before utterly breaking it, the reason you'd never see Trinity as a starter.

That's good for you, it doesn't mean that mag isn't confusing and useless to a new player against the enemies they first face. I struggled with Loki and thank god they replaced him, I just wish it was with someone who is better.

[Gree26]

May I remind everyone those were just ideas, I didn't say ivara was the best choice 

[MagPrime]

Just now, Gree26 said:

I am aware it does more than just strip armor, however the enemies you are introduced to are grineer. Along with that I'm not only saying it's usefulness is bad to a beginner, I am also saying that it is way to confusing. We have nothing that explains what the mechanics actualy mean.

That's true for every warframe in the game though, not just Mag and Volt.

Any Warframe is going to require at least a dozen trips to the wiki to learn the in depth mechanics.  

6 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

Yes, I started with Loki and it was frustrating. Now my friends who recently joined chose those two and died constantly where as in the past my other friends who chose Excalibur were just fine. 

This example isn't something that a change should be based on, it simply means your friends did better with Excalibur because it's what they understood.

1 minute ago, Gree26 said:

May I remind everyone those were just ideas, I didn't say ivara was the best choice 

Then why put her there at all?

[EndermanBeast]

12 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

Yes, I started with Loki and it was frustrating. Now my friends who recently joined chose those two and died constantly where as in the past my other friends who chose Excalibur were just fine. 

That could happen, because you know... they may not have mods.

+

That just happens with your friends. I chose Volt, and stayed with him up until about Eris on the star chart with my MK1-Kunai (I thought it was the best weapon ever and that it was amazing, don’t judge me). No forma either, but I kept with him, because he was perfect. He wasn’t complicated in anyway possible, actually he was too easy for me. 

Excalibur on the other hand, uses 4. And then maybe 1 if they have a max range build but still. I died much more with Excalibur than I did with Volt.

 

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7 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

I am aware it does more than just strip armor, however the enemies you are introduced to are grineer. Along with that I'm not only saying it's usefulness is bad to a beginner, I am also saying that it is way to confusing. We have nothing that explains what the mechanics actualy mean.

Arsenal -> Warframe -> Abilities or alternatively, use the Codex. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

May I remind everyone those were just ideas, I didn't say ivara was the best choice 

umm. You clearly stated that they were powerful.

54 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

in my opinion, we have plenty of frames that make a good replacement for bolt and mag. 2 very powerful but more advanced frames. We have frames like Ivara and rhino. Both powerful without needing a good mod setup and already are very accessible to most players. I just think that a new players first experience should not be confusion. 

 

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EDIT : MagPrime said some of my points in their post... oh well. It’s fine.  from me Mag.

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Edited March 6, 2018 by EndermanBeast

[(PSN)DDONALD_TRUMP01]

Mag is as complicated to build for as loki.

Rhino should definitely take mags place.

You got two dps/caster frames and one in the middle we need a tank frame so the new players have a variety to choose from

[(PSN)LiamRising]

14 minutes ago, MBaldelli said:

Remember when Loki was a starter frame?  Yeah, you should.  'nuf said. 

i remember picking loki as my starter hated it since he was so squishy and without any decent mods he was pretty hard to get through the star chart.

[freeformline]

I think the starter frames are fine as they are. Mag worked great as a starter for me, and continues to work very well in high level areas. My only real concern with her is that the duration-scaling on Polarize probably isn't terribly intuitive. Other than that, I don't see any reason to pull her off the roster.

[JaycemeSwain]

Trinity would work the best to replace mag as a starter frame as she is worth learning and has utility in squads like volt & excal. Mag is currently there as just the token female starter