The starting frames need to change

[MagPrime]

7 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

Did anyone consider why mag and volts usage come nowhere near Excalibur's usage. It's the best hands down. I can say volt can find some use with new players but mag just can't keep up with exalted blade. 

And this is based on...?

Besides the absurdity of comparing two drastically different abilities in general, you're comparing a CAoE ability to an AoE multi function ability.

I believe the term is "apples and oranges"

[Gree26]

To summarize the argument for mag, the new player, on top of mods companions the foundry parkour enemy health types, they need to learn what magnetize does, that polarize strips armor and later if they keep on using the ability(as it seems to be wealding little results) and they need to learn that crush uses armor shards to increase its damage. Seams like a good starting frame to me.

[BelgianWafflez]

Volt and Excalibur are excellent beginner options, both being strong in their own right, while being accepting of different play styles. I can't say much about Mag as I haven't tried her yet.

[Gree26]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

And this is based on...?

Besides the absurdity of comparing two drastically different abilities in general, you're comparing a CAoE ability to an AoE multi function ability.

I believe the term is "apples and oranges"

It's not when that is 1 of your 3 choices. They are warframe S in the same game competing against the same enemies. Excalibur kills 100x faster at that level

[Gree26]

7 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

And this is based on...?

Besides the absurdity of comparing two drastically different abilities in general, you're comparing a CAoE ability to an AoE multi function ability.

I believe the term is "apples and oranges"

Also this is based on last years Tennocon panel 

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

It's not when that is 1 of your 3 choices. They are warframe S in the same game competing against the same enemies. Excalibur kills 100x faster at that level

At what level? And it's entirely situational.  Mag's Crush and Polarize are killing in a full 360.  Excal's E-blade kills what's in front of him. 

I'm not entirely certain you've put enough time into playing either Volt or Mag to give viable feedback on their shortcomings. 

7 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

To summarize the argument for mag, the new player, on top of mods companions the foundry parkour enemy health types, they need to learn what magnetize does, that polarize strips armor and later if they keep on using the ability(as it seems to be wealding little results) and they need to learn that crush uses armor shards to increase its damage. Seams like a good starting frame to me.

This is true for all Warframe abilities. None of them are 100% identical, so the new player will have to learn how Nyx works, how Rhino works, how Ember, Oberon, Nova, all of them, how they work and what mods work best.  This isn't isolated to the starter Warframes. 

[Gree26]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

At what level? And it's entirely situational.  Mag's Crush and Polarize are killing in a full 360.  Excal's E-blade kills what's in front of him. 

I'm not entirely certain you've put enough time into playing either Volt or Mag to give viable feedback on their shortcomings. 

This is true for all Warframe abilities. None of them are 100% identical, so the new player will have to learn how Nyx works, how Rhino works, how Ember, Oberon, Nova, all of them, how they work and what mods work best.  This isn't isolated to the starter Warframes. 

I have been playing for a long time. I am talking from a new players perspective, coming from my friends who recently joined. I have plenty of experience. And you are right, how dare I voice my opinion. You got me, I'm done with this post.

[Cryptix123]

1 minute ago, Gree26 said:

I have been playing for a long time. I am talking from a new players perspective, coming from my friends who recently joined. I have plenty of experience. And you are right, how dare I voice my opinion. You got me, I'm done with this post.

Now you're making ad hominems.

Not once did he tell you that you can't share your opinion.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

I have been playing for a long time. I am talking from a new players perspective, coming from my friends who recently joined. I have plenty of experience. And you are right, how dare I voice my opinion. You got me, I'm done with this post.

You posted in General Discussion and didn't expect people to...discuss...?

 

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

We're talking about new players not even BOTHERING to progress when it comes to that because the difficulty would jump.

Same thing with Ivara. It's one thing to reward hard work with an "easier" method to just "have fun with".  It's another thing entirely to start there.

Difficulty wont jump. If the players chose rhino and they prefer the tank role it makes the game easier for them because it caters to their playstyle.

Im only for rhino replacing mag.

The players that chose the tank role have other options to choose from if they like and chose rhino as a starter. Atlas, nidus, chroma and inaros. Theyll still have to play other frames and weapons in order to gain mastery rank and progress through the game. If they like being a tank a choose to stick with rhino for the rest of the game its ok as long as they still play the game and continue to progress. They can have rhino but make another frame and level it up but go back to rhino, its not a bad thing it just means they prefer rhino and his playstyle.

New players arent dumb. When you begin the game and have to choose from three warframes it tells you their different playstyles. Mag and volt are too similar as in they are both squishy caster frames. Wont it be better to have a [squishy damage caster frame] [tanky crowd control frame] and [ the middle ground excalibur]?

When we have mag volt and excal its redundant, its like choosing between two bows and a rifle, we need one of each. A rifle, bow and shotgun.

Difficulty wont jump.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

25 minutes ago, Gree26 said:

It's not when that is 1 of your 3 choices. They are warframe S in the same game competing against the same enemies. Excalibur kills 100x faster at that level

Not every objective is about killing enemies.  Sometimes it's about defending, healing, playing support...or stalling as in mobile defense or defection.  Sometimes you don't need to kill a single enemy, like in Spy.  

Not everything comes down to doing damage.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

20 minutes ago, Cryptix123 said:

Now you're making ad hominems.

Not once did he tell you that you can't share your opinion.

Careful, the "H" word might rear it's head...hyperbole.

Edited March 7, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

Difficulty wont jump. If the players chose rhino and they prefer the tank role it makes the game easier for them because it caters to their playstyle.

Im only for rhino replacing mag.

The players that chose the tank role have other options to choose from if they like and chose rhino as a starter. Atlas, nidus, chroma and inaros. Theyll still have to play other frames and weapons in order to gain mastery rank and progress through the game. If they like being a tank a choose to stick with rhino for the rest of the game its ok as long as they still play the game and continue to progress. They can have rhino but make another frame and level it up but go back to rhino, its not a bad thing it just means they prefer rhino and his playstyle.

New players arent dumb. When you begin the game and have to choose from three warframes it tells you their different playstyles. Mag and volt are too similar as in they are both squishy caster frames. Wont it be better to have a [squishy damage caster frame] [tanky crowd control frame] and [ the middle ground excalibur]?

When we have mag volt and excal its redundant, its like choosing between two bows and a rifle, we need one of each. A rifle, bow and shotgun.

Difficulty wont jump.

But....Excal, Mag, and Volt ARE all Shotguns....Excal is ALSO a rifle, and a bow.  Volt, too, for that matter and...

It's fine as is.  If anything, I'd vote to move Excal OUT of starting lineup, as he is now able to be farmed early on, and is a pretty strong frame.

But since he's been the poster child of WF for some time, it'd be a bit tough to not give him to new players.

[MagPrime]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Careful, the "H" word might rear it's head...hyperbole.

They are correct though, I've never even hinted that OP can't share their opinion. 

I will say that they can't share their opinion on an open forum and expect people to not disagree and engage in discussion over it. 

Based on OP's posts, their suggestion isn't well thought out or researched, that's all. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

They are correct though, I've never even hinted that OP can't share their opinion. 

I will say that they can't share their opinion on an open forum and expect people to not disagree and engage in discussion over it. 

Based on OP's posts, their suggestion isn't well thought out or researched, that's all. 

You are entirely rational and cogent in the posts I've seen.  Did you suspect I was suggesting you are susceptible to it's indulgences?

😋

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You are entirely rational and cogent in the posts I've seen.  Did you suspect I was suggesting you are susceptible to it's indulgences?

😋

...

*chews on crayons*

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You are entirely rational and cogent in the posts I've seen.  Did you suspect I was suggesting you are susceptible to it's indulgences?

😋

Arsekisser!

That's my job.

[Ventura_Highway]

8 hours ago, aligatorno said:

Ivara is an awful choice for a starter frame. Your argument for Volt is that he needs a certain mod to be good. Ivara needs a lot of mods to be good overall. 

She needs lots of energy, she needs lots of duration or lots of efficiency, she needs a well built primary so that her Artemis Bow can actually do something, she's very slow compared to the rest and is incredibly squishy. So you contradict yourself a lot by setting her as an example. 

The now starte frames are good enough, all 3 of them can be played with basic mods without suffering too much, all of them can be turned into absolute monsters with the right mods. None of them require specific mods to be useful. 

She'd be even worse than Loki was.

[aswitz87]

How about we just make Limbo a starter frame?

I think I figured out the fastest way to kill the game...



In seriousness, I don't see an issue with Mag.  While I haven't used her as much as Volt (my starter), she seemed to work fine enough when I was a newb (still am at times).

[Serafinia]

The current rooster is good in my opinion there is nothing really hard on these frames and relatively easy to play them. The other frames also could be played easily like Loki when he was also a starter frame. Simply there is no really good option because every frame can be played badly and good and peoples always will cry why not this or that is the beginner. Honestly DE needs to make dummy frames as starter which are not really frames and not really operators in between the two. Or just leave it as it is.

[Nottezio]

Excalibur is a perfect starting frame. Volt is pretty good now that you don't need that much duration because you can focus on his discharge. Mag is pretty good too, I find her pretty fun to play. 

You don't have to own any corrupted mod to make a frame viable, because new player only have to play on low level mission. 

 

If you want some damage, Excalibur is good for anything that's in front of him.

Now, for mag and volt, tested it on hydron. 

I can bet on volt with range mod and only 95% power str can kill faster with his discharge. 

Mag too is pretty good on hydron. 

I prefer volt because you just have to press 1 ability, and mag you have to press 2 ability for stripping armor and doing damage. Which one is better? I don't know, depends on your preference. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Nottezio

[Druid40]

If you can survive with Mag, you can survive with anything. 

[kgabor]

Ivara...as a starter frame.

Why not straight up make Excalibur Prime a starter frame?

Ivara is meant to give players a sense of progression and be a frame that you need to spend painful hours on farming and in return it trivializes almost any spy mission. (on a side note, it doesn't make sense that it can be bought for plat for the same reason)

Loki was also a starter frame once afaik. but they wanted starters to be some of the less "advanced" frames so they changed it.

You need to cheese content with Mag by getting into your bubbles pulling enemies into it spamming Polarize and augmented Crush to strip armor, Loki or Ivara is a direct step up from this being able to disarm a whole map or kill an enemy regardless of level with a single button press.

Actually even Volt got better with its rework and Discharge is an usable and viable DPS ability now and imo. Mag will get its rework at some point also so that Polarize will scale and Crush will be less of a trash cc ability.

Edited March 7, 2018 by kgabor

[S.Dust]

ha you're funny if you think ivara should be a starting frame.

[Coney18]

I started the game with mag and she is pretty good starter and late gamer frame. Despite the hate she is not a needy frame and not too squishy so she can survive a lot and you can learn with her how to move and how to avoid hits. Her shields are strong enough and can overshield herself plus that shield can keep you from dying if you watch your shield. Volt in a worse position because his armor level weaker than mag's armor but he has 25 more hp which is not  bad at start. Rhino would not be a bad choice but many peoples could just learn how easy the game and probably with rhino they can clear the starchart before moving on another frame. My bet is let make 4 starter frame and add ash or loki back to the rooster because he is a good choice for those players whom in other games are very tactical and using stealth techniques. 

Frames like ivara, octavia, nidus etc wont be starters because those frames generate money to DE because harder to get them.