The starting frames need to change

[S.Dust]

1 minute ago, Coney18 said:

I started the game with mag and she is pretty good starter and late gamer frame. Despite the hate she is not a needy frame and not too squishy so she can survive a lot and you can learn with her how to move and how to avoid hits. Her shields are strong enough and can overshield herself plus that shield can keep you from dying if you watch your shield. Volt in a worse position because his armor level weaker than mag's armor but he has 25 more hp which is not  bad at start. Rhino would not be a bad choice but many peoples could just learn how easy the game and probably with rhino they can clear the starchart before moving on another frame. My bet is let make 4 starter frame and add ash or loki back to the rooster because he is a good choice for those players whom in other games are very tactical and using stealth techniques. 

Frames like ivara, octavia, nidus etc wont be starters because those frames generate money to DE because harder to get them.

it's also that all of those frames trivialize the game its the same reason loki isnt a started anymore he was too good if you gave them ivara new players wouldnt know how to do spy missions properly because they would have invis and they would get her augment eventually, if you gave them nidus they would only learn to mod for power strength, give them octavia well then they dont even need to play the game just press 1 and 3 then crouch a bit.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

10 hours ago, Gree26 said:

in my opinion, we have plenty of frames that make a good replacement for bolt and mag. 2 very powerful but more advanced frames. We have frames like Ivara and rhino. Both powerful without needing a good mod setup and already are very accessible to most players. I just think that a new players first experience should not be confusion. 

 

Those are just what came to mind. I'm sure there are better options but the current frames volt and mag are just not a good frame to start with. (Obviously Excalibur is a perfect starting frame)

DE said specifically that they purposely made Rhino not a starter. Rhino is a powerful frame for new player but they want him to be something they work for. Ivara is a big stretch because Ivara is hard to obtain and forces players to learn spy missions. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done Spy Sorties just for a newer player to completely mess it up.

[Coney18]

Just now, S.Dust said:

it's also that all of those frames trivialize the game its the same reason loki isnt a started anymore he was too good if you gave them ivara new players wouldnt know how to do spy missions properly because they would have invis and they would get her augment eventually, if you gave them nidus they would only learn to mod for power strength, give them octavia well then they dont even need to play the game just press 1 and 3 then crouch a bit.

Most likely. But the real reason is these frames are helps them earn money. That's why locked into the grind/time walls. The learning thing also not an undeniable part of it but the major reason is the profit. Those players whom not want farm them because tedious the farming they willing to buy these frames. 

[saradonin]

Errrr... not exactly.

Mag might indeed require fancy corrupted mods to develop her full potential.

Volt on the other hand is quite simple and is perfectly fine as a starter frame. Slap some basic mods on him and he's good to go: great AoE CC, quick CC on the run, damage good enough for the starchart, defensive capabilities, good synergy with melee and awesome with gunplay.

[S.Dust]

1 minute ago, saradonin said:

Errrr... not exactly.

Mag might indeed require fancy corrupted mods to develop her full potential.

Volt on the other hand is quite simple and is perfectly fine as a starter frame. Slap some basic mods on him and he's good to go: great AoE CC, quick CC on the run, damage good enough for the starchart, defensive capabilities, good synergy with melee and awesome with gunplay.

Im with you i have over a thousand hours in the game and i still dont quite understand mag now ill admit i havent gone out of my way to fully get her but she seems more complicated than any other frame minus maybe octavia.

[---UMBRA---]

10 часов назад, Gree26 сказал:

in my opinion, we have plenty of frames that make a good replacement for bolt and mag. 2 very powerful but more advanced frames. We have frames like Ivara and rhino. Both powerful without needing a good mod setup and already are very accessible to most players. I just think that a new players first experience should not be confusion. 

 

Those are just what came to mind. I'm sure there are better options but the current frames volt and mag are just not a good frame to start with. (Obviously Excalibur is a perfect starting frame)

NO

[Aoden]

Loki needs to reclaim his rightful place from Mag, so all the poor sods that choose him can die horribly while trying to "stealth" with a skana.

[MBaldelli]

14 hours ago, Gree26 said:

Yes, I started with Loki and it was frustrating. Now my friends who recently joined chose those two and died constantly where as in the past my other friends who chose Excalibur were just fine. 

The problem isn't the starter frame and whether it should or shouldn't be reworked or changed.  The problem is the between the chair and the keyboard.  Those that failed with Mag (or Volt now) went into the game with the assumption that they're going to be as invincible as a low level.  These frames (and Loki) were offered for those that really wanted a challenge and had some idea on how the game runs.  

If they and future players can't take the advice from other players that advise them it would be best with Excalibur, then they need to fall on their face.  Lessons learned are more important than going into this game and thinking, "I'll be this and I'll be a god..."  If they go in without someone giving them advice, they need to think a little about their choices carefully and not assume this is either Just another form of Destiny or R6S.  

Again, you should also remember the missions changes right down the the limited ammo and OP enemies back then.  Compared to what I see new players going through now?  Ha!  They have it easier than they think.  The learning curve is still there, but they're not facing Sargas Ruk first.  

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think we should have more starting frames:

Warrior - Excalibur

Sorceror - Volt

Rogue - Loki

Tank - Rhino

Healer - Oberon

There are of course other frames that will fit as well but these frames are less specialised and will allow for a more generalised learning experience.

[MBaldelli]

Just now, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think we should have more starting frames:

Warrior - Excalibur

Sorceror - Volt

Rogue - Loki

Tank - Rhino

Healer - Oberon

There are of course other frames that will fit as well but these frames are less specialised and will allow for a more generalised learning experience.

I hate to break the news to you...  This isn't WoW or Rift where you have a butt-ton of classes to choose from at the start.  This is Warframe where we have a limited amount of them and can get a new one on practically every planet, one through Eximus Fights, one through alerts and primes through RNG Relics.  If they -- and you -- don't like it you can move onto a Tank on Venus and work your way from there....

[Nubescu]

I suggest 4 starter frame and the following will be nice :

- Ice Chroma.

- Fire Chroma.

- Electric Chroma.

- Toxin Chroma.

 

All of them beginner friendly and can you get over the starchart with ease. Any better idea?

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just now, MBaldelli said:

I hate to break the news to you...  This isn't WoW or Rift where you have a butt-ton of classes to choose from at the start.  This is Warframe where we have a limited amount of them and can get a new one on practically every planet, one through Eximus Fights, one through alerts and primes through RNG Relics.  If they -- and you -- don't like it you can move onto a Tank on Venus and work your way from there....

Yeah, I am aware of that.

However, we still should cater to different preferred playstyles.

If a person likes to tank, why force him to select a non-tank starter and if a person like to heal, why force him to select a non-healer starter?

At the very least, in my eg, the tank lover will move on to Nidus, Wu Kong, Inaros after Rhino while the healer lover can move on to Trinity after Oberon. If turns out, the starter exposed them to another playstyle they can enjoy, then they will play something else.

The current system means regardless of preferred playstyle, you will get only 3 choices and we are expecting these 3 choices to somehow cover everyone's preferred playstyle.

We need to think in the new player's perspective.

He/she would have zero knowledge on the game like info on how to get the next frame and which frame parts drop where. This means it can be hours or even days before he/she gets the next warframe and it may still not be something that suits his/her preferred playstyle.

What do think happens to new players who are forced to play in a playstyle that they don't usually like for hours or days when they are just checking out a free-to-play that cost them nothing to play or have zero investment in?

Not everyone is gonna go read up on wiki especially for those who are just checking out the game because they got nothing else to play for the time being.

If we want to retain new players, we got to make the new player experience more accomodating to new players not us who already have every frame and/or weapon.

[jan_Pike]

i think they're fine already. rhino should stay at venus, not as a starter. he's there to teach the new players the mechanics of building a new warframe, and a good one at that. ivara is probably a touch too powerful or confusing for noobies. mag and volt are already decent starters, and don't need to change. 

if they really did, mag would have to change out for maybe banshee, trinity, idk

[saradonin]

26 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think we should have more starting frames:

Warrior - Excalibur

Sorceror - Volt

Rogue - Loki

Tank - Rhino

Healer - Oberon

There are of course other frames that will fit as well but these frames are less specialised and will allow for a more generalised learning experience.

If it was presented like that in game, I'd probably pick Oberon.
On the other hand Oberon and Rhino are some of the first frames new players can get their hands on anyway.

 

24 minutes ago, MBaldelli said:

This is Warframe where we have a limited amount of them

I'm not quite sure, 34 (not counting prime variants) seems quite a lot to me, WoW has only 12.

[HellVOps]

The starter frames are fine as they are, what needs to be added is their pros/cons on their selection screens(ex: low base health/high shield rating, that sorta thing) or a really simple video showcasing the warframe(they already exists just look in the wiki, now add them ingame).

[Firetempest]

I love Rhino. but its a horrible starter frame. Makes you super lazy if as a new player you depend on iron skin to avoid everything for most of the star chart.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Arsekisser!

That's my job.

You can have your "crush" on mag. ❤️

With her "magnetic" personality I can see how she might "pull" you in.

She is cute (saw her pic in a thread) and seems smart (a deadly combo) but my wife is also smart, gorgeous and could Cosplay as Saryn with her measurements so I'm good. 😊

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Nubescu said:

I suggest 4 starter frame and the following will be nice :

- Ice Chroma.

- Fire Chroma.

- Electric Chroma.

- Toxin Chroma.

 

All of them beginner friendly and can you get over the starchart with ease. Any better idea?

Drevni skin and Tarrasque helm FTW!

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

Considering that Excalibur can be built to be one of the best warframes in the game, I don't quite understand what's the issue. Volt is a pretty good frame as well, but not the biggest fan of mag, personally speaking. But the starting frames are fine the way they are.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

7 hours ago, S.Dust said:

Im with you i have over a thousand hours in the game and i still dont quite understand mag now ill admit i havent gone out of my way to fully get her but she seems more complicated than any other frame minus maybe octavia.

Octavia???

1,2,3,4 win.  You don't even really need to know what her powers do, lol.

Mag is actually really cool.  Start with playing with Natural talent.

Mag's cast time is the gateway to a killer kit.

[xXDeadsinxX]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Mythical Warden said:

Considering that Excalibur can be built to be one of the best warframes in the game, I don't quite understand what's the issue. Volt is a pretty good frame as well, but not the biggest fan of mag, personally speaking. But the starting frames are fine the way they are.

The way I see it, that Excalibur and Volt are amazing starter frames where Mag...not so much. She’s way to complex for newer players to understand her kit and how in-depth her abilities work. A different frame should replace Mag to be honest, she’s way too complicated for newer players.

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

1 minute ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

The way I see it, that Excalibur and Volt are amazing starter frames where Mag...not so much. She’s way to complex for newer players to understand her kit and how in-depth her abilities work. A different frame should replace Mag to be honest, she’s way too complicated for newer players.

True, and not only that, but it takes some players forever to figure out they even had abilities to begin with. (Not that I was.. One of those players, or.. anything.. eh-heh.) Mag is more one of those kind of frames that requires a bit more knowledge into what you're doing. Excalibur is a much more simple, yet heavily iconic character in Warframe. Volt is the same, very simple, yet can be made to be very strong.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, krekireftw said:

ivara is probably a touch too powerful or confusing for noobies.

I can somewhat agree with this.  She's extremely powerful for solo play.  Then again she's also complicated to learn how to use her in groups.  

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You can have your "crush" on mag. ❤️

With her "magnetic" personality I can see how she might "pull" you in.

She is cute (saw her pic in a thread) and seems smart (a deadly combo) but my wife is also smart, gorgeous and could Cosplay as Saryn with her measurements so I'm good. 😊

Yup... that's what it is. A "crush"... yup... >_> <_<

Not commenting on the cute part, I fear that my words will be used against me in the future.

I guess given that the OP failed to present any reasonable arguments and ran away, this thread is now an off topic playground? Whoop.

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I can somewhat agree with this.  She's extremely powerful for solo play.  Then again she's also complicated to learn how to use her in groups.  

Oh god, firing her arrows with her first ability are terrible for controller. You have to swap to the arrow, then you gotta hold it, and hope for dear god it doesn't swap to a different arrow.

Edited March 7, 2018 by (XB1)Mythical Warden
forgot to add in the controller part